Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[Thespio]

I'm a special snowflake

You have the oddest expressions.

[JoramvanVugt]

still no answer to my question: what did i do to make you think im maffia, you guys are probably going to lynch me next game so help me improve, thats what these newbie games are for right? i feel like im only getting votes because of mistakes while nobody actually points out what i did wrong/how to improve ...

[Akuseru]

Why are you voting stoz, Joram?

[HenryCabotLodge]

You seem eager to lynch Stoz. I think he's scummy myself, but I don't see you explicitly state reasons other than that you scumread him (which can easily be deduced). We have two days to deadline, why rush into this?

Because I don't want a last second deadline flashwagon?

Ah yes, taking the condescending Thespio style approach. Why do you scumread Stoz?

[stoz]

I try to figure out people's motivation for posting things. More concretely, I look for inconsistency in logic, nonsensical arguments and votes, and try to see if somebody has a specific voting pattern. Amount of activity does figure into it to a degree, but I don't automatically associate an active player with being pro-town, nor do I see a lurky player as scummy by default. It all depends on the content of their posts. If a player who lurks just pops in from time to time and doesn't post anything substantial I find that scummy, which is what I'm seeing from you.

Thanks for engaging with me, it's a good, clear explanation of how to improve my reads.

Let me says this: I am town.

I know I was a bit sporadic with my posts at first and at the start of the game I really did not know what to say. Now the issue that I face is that lots and lots of discussion happens when I'm asleep (Australia). For example, yesterday I posted early in the morning, I got 1 reply from Micc and 1 reply from not science, a vote count, and then 13 hours later I posted again before heading to bed, then I wake up to 2 additional pages of discussion. I know that makes it seem like I'm not engaging but it does not make me scum. And this whole "you are anti-town / playing bad" is a self-fulfilling prophecy once everyone turned against me.

My "tickets please" comment was to draw attention to the fact that not science was hiding the reason for his vote behind a joke. Not science's role blocker theory sounds nice, but isn't there a tell along the lines of "the first person to speculate about the setup is scum?". I also don't like the continued jokes he is making (snowflake? what?). I am very suspicious of not science and I think that is the first place you should be looking should I get lynched.

A counter-theory to not science's RB theory: If Joram knows mafia are goon / goon, there is a 50% chance for tracker, 25% chance for jailkeeper and 25% chance for cop. That means if he gets targeted there is a 75% chance that he will be clean / not affected as long as his scum partner is the one performing the night kill.

VOTE: JoramvanVugt

[notscience]

It's not intended to be condescending.

I had explained it already a few times.

That being said, I will state it again- I am trying to consolidate for deadline. I am not townreading stoz.

The two other decent sized wagons are on people I am townreading

And deadline flashlynches are way too easy for scum to control.

[Micc]

I was town reading Jordan, but after spending 5 min looking at the offsite game I feel pretty meh about it. Looks like two to totally different people based on confidence and tone of the 10ish posts i read. Thats a small sample size and im not finding the time to look harder in the next two days.

I had Stubbs, Thespio, stoz lynch pool in that order before today but the stoz wagon doesn't feel solid. Im going to spend some time looking back at stoz because my scum read doesn't match the activity based(?) reads that others seem to have. Also want to take a look at the wagon.

@notscience: Why are you town reading Stubbs?

[Micc]

Yeah I don't feel good about lynching stoz here. The wagon scares me mostly because I don't think Notscience or Jordan have any business jumping on like that. I know consolidation is something that needs to happen so i get it...it just doenst feel right.

NS: please explain both Thespio and Stubbs town reads. If I can understand these ill feel a lot butter about the vote onto Stoz.

Jordan: How much experience do you have playing mafia offsite? (Number of completed games?, sites besides what akuseru linked?, real life mafia?)

Bulbazoor & Thespio: can each of you restate or quote your case against Stoz?

[Micc]

And with that im going to bed. I still feel good about a Stubbs lynch. The vote on Veegee's had no way of benefiting the town, and nothing else hes really done has either. I dont have a problem with him shutting down interaction with me like he did, but I dont think the interactions he tried to start with other players right after were all that genuine, and he hasn't done any sort off follow up after that.

Pretty much, in a game where everyone is accusing everyone else of not doing stuff, i think Stubbs isnt doing stuff. His stands out to me as the fake sort of stuff thats designed to make him look busy, which I find scummy as opposed to just being bad play.

[notscience]

Thespio is basically some of the aggression and his constant shopping around seems town

Stubbs is primarily gut, I didn't really hate his reaction to you.

[Thespio]

UNVOTE: Stoz I wont let hammer fall on stoz, i see his reasoning and understand his whole, I live in a different place to justify my activity, honestly Notscience's vote was unwarrented in terms of actual reasoning. So im pulling my vote until i can look at stoz a bit better.

Joram you look guilty as heck, you have more experience then you let on. you used the excuse:

Also im playing a newbie game cause this is my very first game. i dont know a lot about maffia and came here to learn. some help would be amazing instead of omg he is guilty cause he didnt do this little thing like all other players do. I dont know how maffia is being played on this site. i still need to learn all of that. so sorry if i dont do things like you guys want me to..

Which makes me look at you as a flat out liar... first game but you say you did more later... you also speculate on cop, which makes me think you are trying to out the cop, and thus you would know who it is so you can trade. RIght now we are all looking at you so dying and killing cop would be a fair trade in your mind...

[Thespio]

Bulbazoor & Thespio: can each of you restate or quote your case against Stoz?

Mostly based off his disregard for the fact he was being voted, a little gut, but mostly due to his bad playing, though I see him as more nuetral right now and I see Joram as scum, like hardcore scum.

[notscience]

For fucks sake we have 2 days left until deadline, consoidate.

[notscience]

Btw micc, your wagon spec would be a lot more concrete if it had a flip to go with it!

[JoramvanVugt]

I was town reading Jordan, but after spending 5 min looking at the offsite game I feel pretty meh about it. Looks like two to totally different people based on confidence and tone of the 10ish posts i read. Thats a small sample size and im not finding the time to look harder in the next two days.

I had Stubbs, Thespio, stoz lynch pool in that order before today but the stoz wagon doesn't feel solid. Im going to spend some time looking back at stoz because my scum read doesn't match the activity based(?) reads that others seem to have. Also want to take a look at the wagon.

@notscience: Why are you town reading Stubbs?

1 completed, 1 close to being done.

[stoz]

The wagon on me went:

Bulbazoor
Akuseru
notscience
Akuseru (off)
Thespio
Joram
Thespio (off)
Thespio
Thespio (off)

I am not sure what to make of it yet.

@Notscience, what do you think of Joram misrepresenting his mafia experience?

Also especially this close to the deadline, StubsKVM needs a prod.

[JoramvanVugt]

The wagon on me went:

Bulbazoor
Akuseru
notscience
Akuseru (off)
Thespio
Joram
Thespio (off)
Thespio
Thespio (off)

I am not sure what to make of it yet.

@Notscience, what do you think of Joram misrepresenting his mafia experience?

Also especially this close to the deadline, StubsKVM needs a prod.

I have 1 previously completed maffia game. its not like im a pro trying to act like a newbie, i only know maybe 20% of the roles in mafia i dont know most of the terms you guys use and i dont know how to play as most roles. if you call that experience just lynch me

[Micc]

Have you ever considered asking questions about the stuff you dont understand?

[JoramvanVugt]

ehm yes i did but post of those posts just went unnoticed... and when you mentioned some term i looked it up and read about it, thats how im trying to learn from my newbie game

[Bulbazoor]

So we are lynching joram? Why?

[JoramvanVugt]

They lynch me cause they say im maffia and i made it sound like i had no maffia experienced even though im experienced (1 completed game apparently is experience enough)

[Micc]

ehm yes i did but post of those posts just went unnoticed... and when you mentioned some term i looked it up and read about it, thats how im trying to learn from my newbie game

Can you quote the posts that went unnoticed please?

[Thespio]

They lynch me cause they say im maffia and i made it sound like i had no maffia experienced even though im experienced (1 completed game apparently is experience enough)

no, lynch you lied about experience:

Im new to this site but i still understand the game and in my opinion i havent done anything that would make me show up as mafia?

You then talk about how you are playing alternate games but go in depth so it is redacted. (OOC:I loled so hard when i noticed this)

But earlier you stated:

Also im playing a newbie game cause this is my very first game.

Honestly you are bad for town, you sat without any posts lurking, while the rest of us posted, and didnt speak until you were called out. Your votes are not your acutal opinion or they would stay with who you thought was scum. you flipped to me when you realised i was voting you, so your vote on HCL was weak at best.

You did ask questions about gameplay and ultimately looked and look like a newbie, Micc answered all Questions BTW. If it haddent been brought up that you had more prior experience then let on i would let this pass but with the lying, the inactivity, and overall hidering the town I would let some of it slide, but at this point you are the most logical vote.

VOTE: JoramvanVugt

Lying is Taboo, dont lie, liars hurt town, liars are scum

[JoramvanVugt]

They lynch me cause they say im maffia and i made it sound like i had no maffia experienced even though im experienced (1 completed game apparently is experience enough)

no, lynch you lied about experience:

Im new to this site but i still understand the game and in my opinion i havent done anything that would make me show up as mafia?

You then talk about how you are playing alternate games but go in depth so it is redacted. (OOC:I loled so hard when i noticed this)

But earlier you stated:

Also im playing a newbie game cause this is my very first game.

You see first game on THIS SITE this is my first game on this site, the other 1 game i completed was not on this site

but go ahead lynch me. im kinda done with this site, im playing a newbie game to learn and im only being f*cked by players who understand the game and wont even help me learn.


Honestly you are bad for town, you sat without any posts lurking, while the rest of us posted, and didnt speak until you were called out. Your votes are not your acutal opinion or they would stay with who you thought was scum. you flipped to me when you realised i was voting you, so your vote on HCL was weak at best.

You did ask questions about gameplay and ultimately looked and look like a newbie, Micc answered all Questions BTW. If it haddent been brought up that you had more prior experience then let on i would let this pass but with the lying, the inactivity, and overall hidering the town I would let some of it slide, but at this point you are the most logical vote.

VOTE: JoramvanVugt

Lying is Taboo, dont lie, liars hurt town, liars are scum

[Thespio]

Yes, i did post that... oh you added this:

You see first game on THIS SITE this is my first game on this site, the other 1 game i completed was not on this site

but go ahead lynch me. im kinda done with this site, im playing a newbie game to learn and im only being [Redacted] by players who understand the game and wont even help me learn.

Micc has already said your play style is different. Sorry dude but your super super fishy and abrupt inability to post all game up until we pressure you tells me you had the ability to post and you weren't.