Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[Bulbazoor]

I still think he is town. Do not judge him because of other sites.... judge him as a newbie in his first newbie game.

[Thespio]

I still think he is town. Do not judge him because of other sites.... judge him as a newbie in his first newbie game.

Im not judging him of the other site, im judging him because he presented this as though he had no experience and in truth he does.

[Micc]

ehm yes i did but post of those posts just went unnoticed... and when you mentioned some term i looked it up and read about it, thats how im trying to learn from my newbie game

Can you quote the posts that went unnoticed please?

Jordan, do this please.

[Micc]

Cause i really have a problem with you getting feisty about not getting help, while still not answering my question asking what you wanted help with.

[Micc]

And bulba, please restate or quote the case on stoz.

[Bulbazoor]

This is where I am right now:

Akuseru - 55% town
Has been asking good questions and seems to be putting in a good effort.

JoramvanVugt - 45% town
Seems to be a bit all over the place, probably because of newness. Pretty hard to read though.

Bulbazoor - 40% town
Voted me, I posted a rebuttal and which he completely ignored. His reasons for voting me are flimsy and VeeGee was reasonably suspicious too. Plus the replace-out is not null from my point of view.

Thespio - 70% town
HenryCabotLodge - 70% town
Based on the back and forth a few pages ago I am happy for now to think of both of them as town.

StubbsKVM (SE) - 55% town
Seems pretty consistant. Mounting the kind of defence I would expect to see from town

notscience (SE) - 50% town
Started out with some great questions but has gone pretty quiet lately.

Micc (IC) - 55% town
Great activity. I don't really get his angle on StubbsKVM but he has been asking about other people too.

I understand we have to get this moving because the deadline is in about 5 days and we don't really have any good candidates to lynch yet.

Your rebuttal seems pretty defensive, and the omgus is doing nothing to change my stance

G

[Bulbazoor]

I do not agree on the assumption that aku is scum. The only charge we can make based on game play is that they are trying hard, but that is not even a good basis for a fos. I thini I like my vote for now. This slot was very defensive upon my cqlling them out and they even decided to scumread me because I was scumreading them. That only made my read drift downwards to even more scummy because all he has ever done so far is defend himself when any accusation comes out and even townread stubbs, which is a very scummy player. I barely agree with anynof his reads and their interactuons seem to come from a veery overdefensive stance. And the fact that he even said he scumreads me more than anyone else but never introduces a vote on me is very horrible.

[Micc]

Can you explain why scum are more likely to defend themselves than town are upon being attacked?
Can you explain why scum are more likely than town to have reads you disagree with?
Can you explain why scum are more likely to not vote a scum read than town players are?

I dont like this case because I feel like its all based on stuff that I dont consider alignment indicative. It feels more like you disagreeing with his reads and playstyle more than anything.

After looking back and changing my own read on stoz early game, hearing this case, and seeing the case from other players (gut does nothing to me) i have cold feet on the wagon. Id really prefer Stubbs or maybe Jordan depending on what that offsite game looks like (ill look tonight after work). I dont feel all that solid on Thespio scum read eitehr atm and i dont think that has much support so im not thinking in that direction atm.

[JoramvanVugt]

So am i allowed to copy paste my role pm here? cause if thats what i takes to survive, i probably wont be a big maffia target anyways

[Thespio]

All roles are posted on page 1

[fferyllt]

So am i allowed to copy paste my role pm here? cause if thats what i takes to survive, i probably wont be a big maffia target anyways

Not allowed. Forum Rules and Guidelines: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6470

Relevant portion:

Do not quote communications with the moderator (in particular, your role PM). Paraphrasing is usually ok

[Micc]

ehm yes i did but post of those posts just went unnoticed... and when you mentioned some term i looked it up and read about it, thats how im trying to learn from my newbie game

Can you quote the posts that went unnoticed please?

Jordan, do this please.

...

[Micc]

fferyllt can you prod Subbs please?

[Thespio]

Newbie Setup

Matrix6 (as designed by Cogito Ergo Sum):

	A	B	C
1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Cop	Town Doctor
3	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Mafia Goon	Town Tracker

Each Newbie Game will be given a setup that incorporates either one row or one column. The remaining six roles will be filled in by mafia goons and vanilla townies appropriately, to create a 2-mafia and 7-town setup. For example Row 1 (1 jailkeeper, 1 vanilla townie, 1 mafia goon) would add an additional 5 vanilla townies and 1 mafia goon, for a total setup of 1 jailkeeper, 6 vanilla townies, and 2 mafia goons.

*Roleblocker will take precedence over jailkeeper when resolving night actions should that apply.

Spoiler: Sample Role PMs

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!


You are a

Vanilla Townie

.


You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Town Jailkeeper

Welcome!


You are a

Town Jailkeeper

.


You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills and be prevented from using their own action, if they have one, during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Town Cop

Welcome!


You are a

Town Cop

.


You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed if they are

Town

or

Mafia

. If you are roleblocked, you will receive no result.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Town Doctor

Welcome!


You are a

Town Doctor

.


You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

1-shot Bulletproof Townie

Welcome!


You are a

1-shot Bulletproof Townie.

You will survive 1 kill attempt during the game. This does not include lynches.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Town Tracker

Welcome!


You are a

Town Tracker

.


You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed what player they targeted with their action, if any.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Mafia Goon

Welcome!


You are a

Mafia Goon

.


Your partner is PLAYER, who is a

Mafia Goon/Roleblocker

.


You share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional private thread, located here, which you may talk in during pregame and night phases.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Mafia Roleblocker

Welcome!


You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

.


Your partner is PLAYER, who is a

Mafia Goon

.


You may target one player per night. This player will be prevented from performing their own action, if any.


You share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a roleblock in the same night phase. You also share a factional private thread, located here, which you may talk in during pregame and night phases.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

r

The game thread is here.

Joram you cant trick us by posting a claimed PM, they are all public

[HenryCabotLodge]

Can you explain why scum are more likely to defend themselves than town are upon being attacked?
Can you explain why scum are more likely than town to have reads you disagree with?
Can you explain why scum are more likely to not vote a scum read than town players are?

I dont like this case because I feel like its all based on stuff that I dont consider alignment indicative. It feels more like you disagreeing with his reads and playstyle more than anything.

My own issue with Stoz comes not so much from disagreeing with his reads but the fact that they're very fascile. None of them (at least in his initial reads post) really say anything one way or the other about a player. I'm not really in favor of posting reads constantly anyway, but it seems to have become a sort of indicator of townieness in this game for whatever reason. This also makes Stoz's reads post suspicious to me- after a period of inactivity he comes and and makes a post that looks pro-town on its surface (the reads post), but in reality doesn't say anything definitive. He also didn't place a vote the whole game until his second to last post where he votes JoramvanVugt, a wagon which is conveniently enough gaining steam. All that said, I'm cautious of lynching him myself because I don't necessarily feel comfortable with having inactivity being a primary factor in finding somebody scummy and his play has been much better/substantive as of late (but I guess that's to be expected when the pressure's on).

As for JoramvanVugt, I'm getting more and more comfortable with a lynch on him. You'll remember early on in the game he expressed interest in having me roleclaim (what?) and aped Thespio's arguments against me when he voted me. He kept that vote on almost the entire day and only posted periodically to indicate he had nothing to add. When the pressure is put on he pleads newbieness, which I'm sympathetic to to an extent, but his professed helplessness right now is a far cry from the beginning of the game where he seemed quite confident with his vote on me. There's also the weirdness with him somehow knowing there's a cop in the game. Also, Joramvan, you say you have a completed game but you said this in post #124:

Also im playing a newbie game cause this is my very first game. i dont know a lot about maffia and came here to learn. some help would be amazing instead of omg he is guilty cause he didnt do this little thing like all other players do. I dont know how maffia is being played on this site. i still need to learn all of that. so sorry if i dont do things like you guys want me to..

which seems to contradict what you say in post #316:

I have 1 previously completed maffia game. its not like im a pro trying to act like a newbie, i only know maybe 20% of the roles in mafia i dont know most of the terms you guys use and i dont know how to play as most roles. if you call that experience just lynch me

#124 makes it seems like you have no experience with mafia at all, while #316 just indicates you haven't played mafia on this site. You also pretty confidently say this in post #86 when you vote me:

If you were playing in my last game on another forum you would already be dead by now. somebody would have daykilled you already

You seem to represent your level of experience differently when it suits you, surely you can see how that is suspicious.

I'm not down with a Stubbs lynch at this point, but I do find myself wondering where he is.

[notscience]

Let's lynch stoz

Joram is town.

[Thespio]

Let's lynch stoz

Joram is town.

Whats your case against Joram, because you pushing it so hard kinda makes u look like scum. Especially since you dont have a reason behind your vote.

[notscience]

Okay? I don't particularly care.

I do care that a scumread is being passed by for a townreads.

[Bulbazoor]

Not. It feels like u are sheeping me.

[Thespio]

Okay? I don't particularly care.

I do care that a scumread is being passed by for a townreads.

Post why you are voting. it takes like 5 minutes and no one will question your vote, i wont support a stoz lynch, you gave no reasons.

[JoramvanVugt]

Im sorry that i gave you the impression that this was my very very first game i meant my very first game on this site.

about my role, im a vanilla townie, go ahead lynch me but you will lose a townie

[Thespio]

@Micc I dont support the reasons given to lynch Stoz, do you? would you support a notscience vote? She is voting without reasons, doesnt answer questions, plus she lurks for extended periods of time.

[Thespio]

Im sorry that i gave you the impression that this was my very very first game i meant my very first game on this site.

about my role, im a vanilla townie, go ahead lynch me but you will lose a townie

So am i allowed to copy paste my role pm here? cause if thats what i takes to survive, i probably wont be a big maffia target anyways

UNVOTE: Joram Joram these posts make me see you as innocent:

Im sorry that i gave you the impression that this was my very very first game i meant my very first game on this site.

about my role, im a vanilla townie, go ahead lynch me but you will lose a townie

Im sorry that i gave you the impression that this was my very very first game i meant my very first game on this site.

about my role, im a vanilla townie, go ahead lynch me but you will lose a townie

So am i allowed to copy paste my role pm here? cause if thats what i takes to survive, i probably wont be a big maffia target anyways

Would you support a notscience lynch?

[fferyllt]

StubbsKVM has been prodded.

[HenryCabotLodge]

UNVOTE: unvote
VOTE: notscience

This is the second time you've pushed for the stoz lynch with no elaboration. You say you scumread him but you don't say why. You've also declared JoramvanVugt to be town twice. Why is he town? You haven't commented on the merit of the pressure on him right now. You haven't really commented on much of anything in the last few pages actually.

And deadline flashlynches are way too easy for scum to control.

We're nearly at deadline and the only person I see trying to control a lynch is you.

Okay? I don't particularly care.

I do care that a scumread is being passed by for a townreads.

Okay, but why do you scumread him? You never say. You never say why you townread people. You posted a list of reads in #241 that had even less content than Stoz's post. Also remember at the beginning of the game you were actually trying to make a legitimate case against VeeGee for saying "hi" and indicated you were fine with lynching him based off of that. Whatever, that might be just a disagreement over playstyle/theory but I still don't care for it. However, your playstyle seems to make a change at post #53. Prior to that you directly questioned players, provided reasoning for your posts/ actions, and engaged the town in general. After that, it's been these laconic generalities and you've mainly been in the background. I don't like the discrepancy between your early and current play and I don't like the way you've been pushing for Stoz's lynch.