Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

Micc · Post Post #425 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:07 pm

Heh

Im spinning in circles on this one. I dont trust the town tells i see from Jordan because my whole reason for scum reading him is that he's using his newness as a crutch to coast through the early game. And then he does the whole "everyone is stupid, im done with this site" thing and i just roll my eyes. Few hours later he's back and doing the town things he should have been doing for 13 days now. Its all fake bullshit hes using to try and stick around another day.

...and then i look and see Stubbs leading the wagon and i realize im spinning in circles and nothing fits together....

I wont be here tomorrow until the evening. Willing to lynch in this order:
Stubbs>Jordan>Thespio/Stoz>NS/bulbazoor

So consider this an intent to hammer sometime before deadline tomorrow night i guess. If the day even goes that long.

notscience · Post Post #426 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:09 pm

Micc, if you truly are adamant stubbs is scum, do you think stubbs-scum would lead the bus on his buddy d1 and risk PRs? Being down yoru buddy n day 1 is suicide in a game this size.

Micc · Post Post #427 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:20 pm

Thats why i said things didn't fit together.

I don't know at this point. I have scum reads on them each as individuals. Its not my style to think in terms of team at this point. Do i think its likely they are together -no i dont. Do i think its possible -absolutely.

Heck i watched you and pants cross bus in a 9p open that was twice as swingy as this one is.

I don't think it fits, but thats where im at right now. And I cant afford to loose more sleep over this than i already have. I'll be on tomorrow night.

notscience · Post Post #428 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:22 pm

I'm pretty sure we didnt really bus until late in the game

Akuseru · Post Post #429 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:25 pm

Spoiler: Posting my reads since I'll be pretty busy this weekend

Thespio · Post Post #430 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:25 pm

In post 420, Bulbazoor wrote:Joram can not say for one ton investigate him if he is scum. I do not think newbiemplayers use that strong of ate.

Oh my gosh you are so scummy with this comment, lets follow this logic:

Joram gets picked out as a liar and people see him as falsely displaying noobieness to make it through the rounds.

Joram reasons he will get lynched tomorrow if he can get a Stoz lynch off, Thus he states "Invest me!" This means the town invest will have to out himself D2 to catch Joram, 1 out of 2 power roles will die tomorrow.

You are in full support of his claim "Invest Me!" which makes me see you as easy scum who wants his buddy to live 1 more day so you can out a cop. TC if you exist dont investigate him tomorrow, the outcome will be your death. instead investigate Bulba, we lynch Joram today because of his scummy deception, and if Bulba returns as scum we lynch him tomorrow.

Akuseru · Post Post #431 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:44 pm

In post 425, Micc wrote:I wont be here tomorrow until the evening. Willing to lynch in this order:
Stubbs>Jordan>Thespio/Stoz>NS/bulbazoor

So consider this an intent to hammer sometime before deadline tomorrow night i guess. If the day even goes that long.

We have less than 24hs. No one is at L-1. If you leave it to tomorrow night, we might end up with no lynch.

VOTE: Stoz

That should put him to L-2

fferyllt · Post Post #432 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:25 pm

Vote Count 1.13

MEAN TWEETS

JoramvanVugt

(3): StubbsKVM, stoz, Thespio

stoz

(3): Bulbazoor, notscience, Akuseru

Thespio

(1): JoramvanVugt

StubbsKVM

(1): Micc

notscience

(1): HenryCabotLodge

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: July 19, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-07-18 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

stoz · Post Post #433 (ISO) » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:28 pm

Ugh some of you are so infuriating.

So I am supposed to address the wagon, but not by discrediting it? So I should NOT prove that the arguments in the wagon have little merit? I do not understand AT ALL what you mean by addressing the wagon "other than a discredit".

Bulbazoor could you please summarise your case against me if it is so good? Because this everything I could find:

#151: I was "neutralizing every type of statement that anyone is saying". What you quoted was an exchange where notscience claimed a legitimate read based off "hi", HCL disagreed, I said "I can see the point notscience is trying to make", veegee disagreed with me and I backed up / rephrased my initial point. I made this same point I am making right now in #152 and nowhere has Bulbazoor acknowledged it, except to say that it was "defensive".

Bulbazoor: Can you provide any other examples of me "neutralizing" statements? This one above makes no sense because there was an argument with 2 sides and I was on one side of the argument, so of course I can't agree with both sides of the argument. Notwithstanding that above is also touchy because I was backing up NS's initial read on your slot.

"The rest of your posts seem to come from a fillery perspective": Day one in my last game was really fillery, I only felt like I really had much of a handle on who people were once we were in day 2. Obviously thinking I could ride out day 1 and try to piece it together with more information on day 2 looks really scummy, but as I said I really do not know how to read people on day one.

#204: My rebuttal was "defensive". Bulbazoor also doesn't like that I am suspicious of him for voting me for what I see as bad reasons

#215: "I thini I like my vote for now. This slot was very defensive upon my cqlling them out and they even decided to scumread me because I was scumreading them. That only made my read drift downwards to even more scummy because all he has ever done so far is defend himself when any accusation comes out and even townread stubbs, which is a very scummy player. I barely agree with anynof his reads and their interactuons seem to come from a veery overdefensive stance. And the fact that he even said he scumreads me more than anyone else but never introduces a vote on me is very horrible."

If you want to back that first sentence up a bit, we can see that initially I backed up NS which was scum reading your slot, and I was putting pressure on your slot (#121) then you came in and scum read me. Then you call me out for scum reading you "in response", even though it is quite possible you are scum reading me "in response" to my initial thoughts towards VeeGee.

This is not a criticism of Bulbazoor, but apparently here I am too defensive for Bulbazoor but now other people are telling me I am being not defensive enough of the wagon against me?

Doesn't like my thoughts on Stubbs.

"I barely agree with anynof his reads and their interactuons seem to come from a veery overdefensive stance." -> No idea what "their interactuons seem to come from a veery overdefensive stance" even means.

I have admitted in #390 that I should be quicker to vote.

#268: Bulbazoor doesn't like me drawing attention to NS's lack of explanation for jumping on my wagon.

#330: Quoted #204 and added a letter "G"

#331: Quoted #215

#351: "I am not moving my vote."

#391: "I am not switching."

#394: "Stlz is scum. Joram is not. Scum does not simply come out with the responses he has been. Stop trying to discredit him."

#339: "Notscience is fine. But I will not change."

#403: "Unlike stoz. Who is trying to switch into another wagon.
That is not him of course. There is a difference between stoz getting over defensive and joram trying to actually live and follow his reads."

Again I am defensive but Joram is not when he totally freaks out and threatens to play against his win-con.

#413: "I have my case on stoz."

Also:
#325: Why should we ignore Joram on other sites if he has admitted it is him?

@not science, is it true you just finished a game with Bulbazoor? If so, did he do any of this "I will not change" stuff in that game, and if so, did it work for him?

Like Micc, I've lost too much sleep over this as well. I don't want Day 1 to end up in a no-lynch (I totally stuffed that up Day 2 of my last game) so I will check back here before I go to bed.

stoz · Post Post #434 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:56 am

Ok no posts so heading to bed (10pm here). Deadline is 2pm here tomorrow so I will check again in the morning and / or at lunch.

Micc · Post Post #435 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:57 am

HCL get in here and put a vote on a leading wagon please. Or at least state your intent. If its going to be stoz we need a claim asap.
(Im assuming Jordan's going on stoz at this point).

Consider me on jordan but willing to hammer stoz at the deadline.

JoramvanVugt · Post Post #436 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:28 am

Please Micc can you get my name right once before i die xD its Joram not Jordan

I just removed my vote from Stoz, cause my read on him is town, voting him would go against my read

Bulbazoor · Post Post #437 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:03 am

Well then, investigate me go ahead. I am only defending joram because I doubt he would pull that off as a newbie.

Bulbazoor · Post Post #438 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:07 am

This is an issue that happens every game. Everyone is always charging me with false charges. I do care where this lynch goes. I want it to be stoz for the reasons me and not science have posted. Look again at joram. The deadline is close, so why the hell didn't he switch to stoz when the wagon was available for him to switch too. You're ignoring that, which is a strong towntell in my eyes.

JoramvanVugt · Post Post #439 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:09 am

If the lynch comes down to me and stoz, lynch me.
i think stoz is more valuable to the town then me

Akuseru · Post Post #440 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:54 am

In post 438, Bulbazoor wrote:I want it to be stoz for the reasons me and not science have posted.

What happened to notscience sheeping you?

In post 439, JoramvanVugt wrote:If the lynch comes down to me and stoz, lynch me.
i think stoz is more valuable to the town then me

Sorry dear, I'm town reading you right now and I disagree with stoz being more valuable to town (or at least not in the way you're implying). See if we lynch you Joram and you flip town (which I think you would), we don't really learn much from the lynch (ie: The wagon, those not voting, etc). However I feel like we (or at least I would) get a lot more reads from a stoz lynch regardless of what alignment he flips.

I'm also down for a Bulbazoor lynch if anyone's up for it. Someone I'm also scum reading and would provide info whichever way he flips.

Bulbazoor · Post Post #441 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:56 am

He did sheep me, but he posts good reasons to accompany his sheeping.

Bulbazoor · Post Post #442 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:57 am

Basically everyone scumreads me. It irks me that just because I scumread someone, everyone wants to lynch me.

Akuseru · Post Post #443 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:09 am

Bulbazoor, after stoz, who are you scum reading and why?

Bulbazoor · Post Post #444 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:15 am

In post 433, stoz wrote:Ugh some of you are so infuriating.

So I am supposed to address the wagon, but not by discrediting it? So I should NOT prove that the arguments in the wagon have little merit? I do not understand AT ALL what you mean by addressing the wagon "other than a discredit".

Bulbazoor could you please summarise your case against me if it is so good? Because this everything I could find:

#151: I was "neutralizing every type of statement that anyone is saying". What you quoted was an exchange where notscience claimed a legitimate read based off "hi", HCL disagreed, I said "I can see the point notscience is trying to make", veegee disagreed with me and I backed up / rephrased my initial point. I made this same point I am making right now in #152 and nowhere has Bulbazoor acknowledged it, except to say that it was "defensive".

By neutralizing I meant that you keep on agreeing with everyone about every single little detail. A legitimate read off of "hi" is a horrible read. I am again bothered by this reasoning used by not and you. I think it is bad because he was a newbie, so maybe he did not know the mechanics of RVS.

Bulbazoor: Can you provide any other examples of me "neutralizing" statements? This one above makes no sense because there was an argument with 2 sides and I was on one side of the argument, so of course I can't agree with both sides of the argument. Notwithstanding that above is also touchy because I was backing up NS's initial read on your slot.

"The rest of your posts seem to come from a fillery perspective": Day one in my last game was really fillery, I only felt like I really had much of a handle on who people were once we were in day 2. Obviously thinking I could ride out day 1 and try to piece it together with more information on day 2 looks really scummy, but as I said I really do not know how to read people on day one.

The beginning of the day is clear proof of this. And you were also very fillery throughout the course of today. Only when I brought attention to you did you start to kind of provide more content. Again, I am irked.

#204: My rebuttal was "defensive". Bulbazoor also doesn't like that I am suspicious of him for voting me for what I see as bad reasons

I did not like that you are suspicious of me when I freaking got suspicious of you. Your rebuttal was defensive. I admit that I agreed with Henry on that conclusion.

#215: "I thini I like my vote for now. This slot was very defensive upon my cqlling them out and they even decided to scumread me because I was scumreading them. That only made my read drift downwards to even more scummy because all he has ever done so far is defend himself when any accusation comes out and even townread stubbs, which is a very scummy player. I barely agree with anynof his reads and their interactuons seem to come from a veery overdefensive stance. And the fact that he even said he scumreads me more than anyone else but never introduces a vote on me is very horrible."

I did freaking like my vote. With overdefensive, I meant that you took the defensive road and started voting me and finger of suspicion on me as well. You are also town reading stubbs,which is a scummy player to me. I think stubbs is scum and the reasons you posted to say she is town are bad.

If you want to back that first sentence up a bit, we can see that initially I backed up NS which was scum reading your slot, and I was putting pressure on your slot (#121) then you came in and scum read me. Then you call me out for scum reading you "in response", even though it is quite possible you are scum reading me "in response" to my initial thoughts towards VeeGee.

This is not a criticism of Bulbazoor, but apparently here I am too defensive for Bulbazoor but now other people are telling me I am being not defensive enough of the wagon against me?

Doesn't like my thoughts on Stubbs.

"I barely agree with anynof his reads and their interactuons seem to come from a veery overdefensive stance." -> No idea what "their interactuons seem to come from a veery overdefensive stance" even means.

I have admitted in #390 that I should be quicker to vote.

#268: Bulbazoor doesn't like me drawing attention to NS's lack of explanation for jumping on my wagon.

#330: Quoted #204 and added a letter "G"

#331: Quoted #215

#351: "I am not moving my vote."

#391: "I am not switching."

#394: "Stlz is scum. Joram is not. Scum does not simply come out with the responses he has been. Stop trying to discredit him."

#339: "Notscience is fine. But I will not change."

#403: "Unlike stoz. Who is trying to switch into another wagon.
That is not him of course. There is a difference between stoz getting over defensive and joram trying to actually live and follow his reads."

Again I am defensive but Joram is not when he totally freaks out and threatens to play against his win-con.

#413: "I have my case on stoz."

Also:
#325: Why should we ignore Joram on other sites if he has admitted it is him?

@not science, is it true you just finished a game with Bulbazoor? If so, did he do any of this "I will not change" stuff in that game, and if so, did it work for him?

Like Micc, I've lost too much sleep over this as well. I don't want Day 1 to end up in a no-lynch (I totally stuffed that up Day 2 of my last game) so I will check back here before I go to bed.

I am liking joram for town, do not question it. He is still acting like a townie would even if he admitted his experience.
.
Like I said, I am irked that a townread got me into this. It is absolutely horrible

Thespio · Post Post #445 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:08 am

My god we are screwed in voting, scum right now for me go this way:

Bulba

Joram

Not

science

Micc
Aku
HCL

JoramvanVugt · Post Post #446 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:11 am

Move yourself to the top of the list and i agree with it

Thespio · Post Post #447 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:12 am

If there is a cop, investigate bulba, do not reveal if he is scum tomorrow though!!! we hang joram, if joram is scum and you figured out that bulba is also scum we hang bulba D3. This is my logic:

1) Joram knows he will die
2) Joram decides he will out the cop, the cop can invest him all he wants but has to come out and say that he is the cop in order for us to know for sure.
3) mafia now knows who the cop is
4) mafia kills cop

Notice bulba wont let him get killed because he hopes the cop will out himself, he is continually saying "what scum asks to be investigated or post his pm", Well joram is a sleeze, he lead us to believe he was new but has much more experience then let on to. he is active lurking, bulba if you dont move your vote then we lynch you after him because you will be proven skum.

Thespio · Post Post #448 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:13 am

In post 446, JoramvanVugt wrote:Move yourself to the top of the list and i agree with it

Joram quite, adults who dont deceive are talking here. You will be hung, you decieved us, then tried to play the newb card, then accused us of not helping you when micc went out of his way to do so.

Bulbazoor · Post Post #449 (ISO) » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:18 am

VOTE: joram,screw you. This is town!!,!!,!!,