Mini 1699 - #swag wars: THE empire strikes back (swaggedout)

[fferyllt]

lol definitely not soft-spoken.

[Tammy]

I'm thinking (again) about voting Gnomeo, but it's not really based on anythng solid. Tammy I wish you and Nacho had more to say about that game you played with him. It was really the only one of his scum games that looks at all like this one.

I reread through that game a few days ago and he only had a few posts. It really is a difficult game to draw off of because of how the mechanic worked.

Here he's focused so much on me that it hasn't felt too much the same, but I also worry his sole focus on me is a way for him to keep busy. So I've been hoping that he'd engage with the rest of the game and that would help me out.

[Empire]

DAY 1, VOTECOUNT 16

Aneninen (5)

-

Vinkah, Layla, Nachomamma8, notscience, Cheetory6

notscience (2)

-

RedCoyote, implosion

fferyllt (1)

-

Aneninen

Tammy (1)

-

Gnomeo

Cheetory6 (1)

-

Wickedestjr

RedCoyote (1)

-

pieguyn

Nachomamma8 (1)

-

Tammy

Not Voting (1)

-

fferyllt

Mod Notes

-

notscience is V/LA for one week.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is on July 30th at 12:00 PM EST or in (expired on 2015-07-30 12:00:00).

[pieguyn]

I don't like where Anen's attitude is coming from if he's town here. I think I've made it pretty obvious I at least want to see what he does when he gets back first before definitively calling him scum, and other ppl have said something similar (ex. ffery said he "had enough votes on him already"). so I don't get where him continuing to shut down and resign himself to "meh, everyone is just going to call everything I do scummy" is coming from.

I'm not *really* sure if it's scummy bc I've seen this kind of attitude coming from town a fair amount, but the more he pulls this the more I'm seeing it as a crutch to avoid having to generate content bc I'm definitely not the only person who said in the game thread I wanted to give him room to catch up in the game and I'm pretty sure I've been saying as much for a while now.

my initial thought when reading the rest of his post is that it looked like scum trying to get town read by taking unlikely stances (both ffery/Tammy as scum); I think there is scum motivation in his reads here in that despite pushing ffery against the entire game reading her as town he leaves the option open to join the Cheetory push later if he doesn't get anywhere. this is even more so the case if he had supposedly been deliberately been doing the same thing he did in the last game he had with ffery in order to reaction test her (why give up if you supposedly have a lead you've been working on?).

[pieguyn]

also can we please not lynch Gnomeo

[fferyllt]

Anen feels like a hot mess. If he's town I feel bad for not seeing it right away this time and wading in to do battle. :/

Tonally I'm getting occasional tiny overwhelmed-town flickers from his flailyness.

[pieguyn]

Tonally I'm getting occasional tiny overwhelmed-town flickers from his flailyness.

I don't really get the same sense off of it. plus in this situation I would expect he'd be at least somewhat overwhelmed regardless of what his alignment actually is (town-him can't get engaged in the game, scum-him has no idea what to do to look adequately town/fight his lynch). do you disagree?

[fferyllt]

that's certainly the difference between this game and the first one I played with him. he was quite engaged.

[Tammy]

Here is Anen's iso in Team Mafia White Flag. He replaced in some time day two as I remember I was still there. There wasn't a whole lot of suspicion on his slot, but there was a fair amount.

=24164&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go]White Flag

In any case he definitely didn't wilt under the pressure of being scum read replacing into a scum slot. This is the only experience that I've had with him though. Don't know how much it translates.

[fferyllt]

here's his iso in the game I played with him.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

he was putting reads into the game from the get-go.

reading through his early posts in this game, be picks at posts, but doesn't put down actual reads nearly so quickly.

[Wickedestjr]

Catching up today

[Empire]

Prodding Layla.

[Cheetory6]

I think Anen needs to generate content which isn't just based around his wagon.
I also still want answers to my questions.
Because I feel like this whole "My wagon is scum and all of these people interacting with me are scum because ahhh!!!"-shtick would be easy for scum to fake.

[Wickedestjr]

Just finished catching up.

Who did you get angry with in that game?

pisskop.

Thanks, I'll check it out

I checked it out. It's enough for me to understand where you're coming from wrt the forced anger point.

Unvote

[Wickedestjr]

So, by all means, make the wagon on me happen, because I'm definitely playing the worst out of everyone in this game atm and it might even be informative, but just don't be expecting great things out of me when a dogpile is happening on me haha.

:/

This is one of those town pings that I would have ignored in forest fire. I'm not really sure what to do about it now.

I'm not sure if I believe that you're town reading this. IIRC, he has made several comments of this nature but it's only

this one

that gives you second thoughts? I would love if you could explain this town ping that you're seeing.

Also, what do you think of Anen's similar comment(s)? Or do you think Anen's comments are different in some way?

[Wickedestjr]

I really like this train of thought. It's well explained. Wicked has a way of really talking in such a way that strikes me as believable and approachable vis-a-vis a town mindset.

What a nice comment to read, thanks a lot! I've tried improving my articulation over the years.

Where is Layla?

Said nobody ever.

I'll be busy till Friday so I'll be back at Friday.

I don't care for this post.

Can you explain why you think Layla would say this, if scum?

[Wickedestjr]

Anyway, I have kinda skimmed some but i've seen people mention things about not having a good scum read and I wonder if there is something to my suspicion that this could be multi factional of some kind. :/

I didn't think mini normal games could have multiple factions... or are you suggesting an SK?

[Wickedestjr]

If the previous one, Fferyllt must be scum. A year ago, in another game she replaced in and at that time I'd been wagoned. (It rarely happens to me as town on Day1 but that was another example.) She derailed my wagon becasue he thought "it was clear that the town was on its way to a mislynch.) My gamestart was

very

similar to that game. (Yes, I did it intentionally.) Why hasn't she realized the same thing?

Game name?

Implosion is a next guess. In his 198 he expressed this:

"In fact, there are at least *seven* people who have either voted you or expressed suspicion! You know for a fact that many of them must be town, and townies expressing suspicion towards you are doing so for genuine (if possibly not correct) reasons."

This is a reasoning I know

very well

from IRL situations (not games, real situations!) – it shows evil intent which has a clear goal: wipe someone out of a complany/workplace/community/etc. (Implosion: I'm not calling you evil; it's a game and I've done things like this before too.)

Can you explain this in more detail please? I don't understand.

If it's a Multiball, I guess all of the scums are either ending up on the wagon or shadowing it. In this case, they may think something like "I'm not sure whether Aneninen belongs to the other faction but it is worth a try."

This seems inconsistent. Originally, you called your attackers suspicious for their illegitimate votes. But now you think it's possible that scum are genuinely scum hunting if it's a multiball setup? It looks like you just want criticize your voters, whatever the case may be.


I have a lot more to ask/say later tonight.

[fferyllt]

It was this game:

here's his iso in the game I played with him.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

he was putting reads into the game from the get-go.

reading through his early posts in this game, be picks at posts, but doesn't put down actual reads nearly so quickly.

[RedCoyote]

RC, thoughts on #256?

Okay, I forgot about that one. That's a pretty good post. :/

But the fact that I forgot about it is telling.

was trying to find what was bothering me.
i don't know what to make of it, but the best way to describe it is listing those three and voting ns who pretty much everyone has as eh? while it seems that there is a least a small contingent wanting to push Anen is underwhelming?
putting Layla in there also is also a bit surprising.

I don't understand the point you are making with this post. If there's something I'm supposed to respond to here... you should clarify.

---

But,
I don't think anyone really cares about my posts at all.
If I'm here and answer things = I'm called scum.
If I'm away for RL reasons and don't do anything = I'm called scum.

Here we go...

You don't fit my thoughts as a scum. In other words: I have much stronger scumreads than you.

It seems like you have the opposite problem of a lot us... too many scumreads and not enough townreads, yeah?

---

also can we please not lynch Gnomeo

...he's not even being voted now? :/

---

Can you explain why you think Layla would say this, if scum?

Given that Ane is the leading lynch, she sees no reason to put herself out there and perhaps may feel entitled to lurk a bit and let it stew.

[Wickedestjr]

I had time for one more post.

(1) it happened a long time ago but as far as I can remember, I found Vinkah disturbing, pointed it out and I thought I might be able to join RedCoyote later if noone agreed with me about Winkah.

This doesn't really answer my question. You found Vinkah disturbing because it felt like he was trying to get the pressure off of RC. This point is absolutely meaningless if RC is town. So it doesn't make sense for you to vote RC only if no-one agreed with you about Vinkah.

(2) Originally I meant eg. Implosion, Vinkah and you, Wicked. Now, I could extend it to a couple of other players, starting with those who haven't needed any posts from me to vote for me.

I just read through their isos. We each gave one reason for voting you - not sure how you can call that 'attacking everything'.

(5) Scums (unless they're really, really bad or have slipped) have "allies": players who are pushing another wagon, soft-defending, etc. Townies don't have things like that.

IIRC, you had four votes when you said that you had no allies. So eight people weren't voting for you...

[Wickedestjr]

It was this game:

here's his iso in the game I played with him.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

he was putting reads into the game from the get-go.

reading through his early posts in this game, be picks at posts, but doesn't put down actual reads nearly so quickly.

Ah I missed this. Thank you

[implosion]

It's probably just time for this to happen.

VOTE: Anen

That's L-1.

Idk what to make of Anen's most recent post, but I feel like this is just the correct lynch at this point given the claim and ~apathy~. I think more information to work with will help fix the overarching feeling of meh that has been discussed.

Vinkah mentioned agreeing with me on this, but I'm also not sure why there's still speculation about multiball, although I guess it's mostly just Anen's post. I don't feel like we can get information about the setup from a broad feeling of the day dragging on or whatever. Good scum will be able to fake real scumhunting regardless of whether or not it's multiball.

[fferyllt]

I'm devoting most of tonight to sangria and friends. will be around later. Might bring a hammer.

[Wickedestjr]

Thoughts;

-Something about RC's continued loyalty to his notscience vote feels townish - for some reason, I think that he wouldn't stick to that vote all day as scum. The read seems genuine. I don't like that he's expressed suspicion of Layla for her inactivity, but everything else I've seen from him looks good.

-I recently realized that Layla is probably an alt. Layla, am I right? Can't say why I think that at this time, but it would mean she is more capable of exhibiting the early game town tells than most other "Goon" players. This revelation + the lack of any recent town telling put her in neutral territory for me right now.

-It feels like Vinkah has been coasting. In particular, page 22 feels like him facilitating conversation from the backseat rather than contributing to it on his own. Vinkah, what are your thoughts right now?

-Regardless of Anen's alignment, I don't like Cheetory's vote for him - it feels opportunistic. In particular, I have issue with his first point;

i) This is more of a confusion thing than something scummy,

but I find it strange that Anen goes on and on about how scummy people's OMGUSing is at the start of the game

and by the end of his ISO he's literally blanket OMGUSing his entire wagon composition. I just don't really understand how that works. Lol.

The bolded comment is just a blatant exaggeration. I don't know why Cheetory would exaggerate this, if he's town. Is it the comfort of attacking a popular scum read? The safety of targeting a partner? Or just scum not reading carefully? The vote itself also feels like an unnaturally abrupt development, which confuses me because I like the vote choice.

Also, although fery didnt outline her reasonings behind why my posts last night didn't sit well I can see the thought process behind that.

She's pretty town.

I have a little voice in my head wondering if tammy is scum.

I want to ignore this post because I'm town and I know I'm town and I think I've been pretty transparent.

Then as I want to skip past it, I know I'm going to get crap for ignoring it because TOWN TAMMY WOULD NEVER DO THAT.

So, this is me, acknowledging that you're saying I might be scum and calling you silly for it.

I like this post.

the shade though.
can we lynch Anen?

Yes, you can. You'll get plenty of information out of that lynch. Especially after the first Nightkills (whether it's a Multiball or not) and after the first flipped scum.

I don't like this one.


I (still) like the Anen bandwagon. I'm not crazy about the people on his bandwagon, but I'm even more 'not crazy' about Anen's play and I think that Anen's partners would be bussing him right now if he is scum. There are too many bizarre posts that I can't see the town mindset behind. (See 617 and 620). The VT claim is a plus as well. I want to see what he has to say about my last few posts, though. TL;DR- I support his lynch, but I'm not ready for a hammer just yet.