FF7 Mafia (Game Over)

[Varsoon]

I'll 1v1 you, but don't expect much rage.
I already had a stress-induced breakdown. I'm zen now. c:

[Focus Beam]

Fine. Lets go.

[Focus Beam]

I'm fine with this. Jaquen's probably town so it cuts down on your mislynch options Varsoon.

To bad I don't have an autoconfirm this game.

~Titus

[Varsoon]

I don't really want to lynch Jaqen, though.
:/

Why are you so mean?

[Focus Beam]

Oh I'm mean? You call accepting a 1 v 1 "mean"? But isn't that the idea. Paint the slot as big bad "Titus", forget all about Sal's existence and get people to lynch us.

I'm not mean. I tell it like it is. A lynch wagon sucks, I say so. You're playing stupid, I'll say so. I'm sorry if your ego can't handle blundering from time to time. I can take it as well as I can give it but no I'm not mean. The stuff in this game thrown our way has been mean. I don't mince words because town should be transparent as fuck unless conftown.

You want to make a lynch out of me being "mean" go ahead and try it. Anything less than the direct approach, people will lynch town. That's the way it is. Look at Signs and Void where I was scum and held your hand. I was so nice all you had to do was keep lynching town.

Scum kiss your ass and play to ego. Sorry that I don't do that as town. Maybe I should oh wait nevermind that's anti-town as fuck.

There's a difference between brutal honesty and mean.

Also, you really don't want to lynch Jaquen, just like you really didn't want to lynch us right?

~Titus

[Focus Beam]

To be clear, the audience for my last post is town, not Varsoon.

~Titus

[Focus Beam]

Oh and I'm going to strategically avoid this thread for the weekend.

Let's see who can try to paint me as big bad and evil when I'm not around. Oh by the way, almost certainly, all the wagons will be on town when I get back.

~Titus

[singersigner]

1v1s are anti town and I still have yet to see it in recent games instigated by anyone but scum.

That being said, I was told once that scum in multiball tend to scum hunt better because they already know what they're looking for, so I wouldn't be surprised if both Focus and Varsoon were scum.

[Varsoon]

I... don't think I've painted the slot as just being 'Titus' at all. I've referred to you a few times, but, honestly, I'm addressing you guys as FocusBeam and thinking of you as FocusBeam more than I think most other players are.

Players keep saying I have an ego, but I honestly think I'm pretty shit. And when I say, "Guys, I am pretty shit at this game," people call it AtE. :/

I've been trying to make a lynch out of you playing awkwardly and making poor/scummy pushes and having some moments of inconsistency. I don't think I've ever said I'm wagoning you because you're aggressive/mean. That's just me being like, "Aww."

I didn't want to lynch you at the very start of the game because I figured you'd be easier to sort out later on--this is something that's been clear to me in previous games with both of your heads. You then started scumming it up and I decided that you'd be just fine as a D1 lynch. Thanks for parroting this non-point against me. It's crazy; It's like I had a change of heart based on the context of the game and people (ie: you) have been taking that out of its context and original intent in order to fabricate reasons to justify my lynch.

Also, I know you two are clever enough players to play against meta and contrary to typical notions of 'this is scum' or 'this is town'. Right now, your directness feels very feigned--stemming from a direct need to push a strong counterwagon and look town for it. Maybe that's my bias speaking since I'm pretty sold on my scum-read of you. I'd rather err on the sake of caution, though.

You're doing a lot of grand-standing and premature defending in those last few posts. Why are you being so defensive?
I guess if Jaqen got lynched and flipped out town, it'd reflect really poorly on you and we'd eventually have this conflict down the road anyway.
So I suppose this 1v1 is inevitable
So yeah.
Okay.


I think you can be an aggressive/straightforward player and still be very chill and cool and stuff. You don't have to make people angry. <3
Like, I'm cool as a cucumber right now.
Let's powwow sometime.
I think a dialogue will do us good.

[Varsoon]

Singer, I'll just be straightforward with you, just this once, maybe. Here we go.

I'm town in this game.
Please stop doubting that.

[Focus Beam]

Sigh

You know, I dont mind being mislynched. Its a game, it happens, so what? Ive been mislynched before, Ive driven mislynches before as town/scum, and Ive been mislynched because Ive been scummy before.

However, this isnt cool. Look at our wagon. How many can you actually say are because our slot is scummy over TITUS DID X, X = confscum and Meta/confbias? I think the answer is Varsoon and just Varsoon.

Whats sad is when we flip planet, everyone will shrug and move on to fuck around instead of getting varsoon, or Jaq, or Matsina.

Titus is actually thinking of replacing out, meaning I may have to solo this, which I really dont want to do. She thinks Im actually pissed at her because we are getting mislynched because of her, I told her its part of the game, but then she brings up that this wagon is mainly people who have issues with Titus. I agree, but whatever, we are scum, sure...

Whatever, if Titus replaces out or just gives up, then I dont give a fuck. Ill probably self because Im not solo'ing a large theme.

~Sally

[Focus Beam]

Notty, Ika, Mollie, Singer, Matsin:

Fuck all of you.

That is all

[Scorpious]

Aeris

- Sooo much content,hard to sift through it all,Seemed genuinely upset about not getting my role. I was also thinking it may be an alt based on the lack of meta people were talking about. null for me

Antihero

- 2 posts, I hate that.. could be hiding scum-- scum lean

Bulbazak

- Same, no effort..could be hiding scum-- scum lean

CB

-looks like effort was started but then nothing since,curious to why.. null

Feysal

-Thoughts seemed measured,some vote jumping,but I see nothing wrong with that-- town lean

Flubbernugget

- Seems very reactive to others,not really offering much of his own hunting,lots of vote hopping-- null

Focus

-- was put on the defensive early,many,many...many posts,would take hours to provide something accurate,been nice but not overly nice to me-- null

FSS

-- shared the same early thoughts as I on Aeris,then 3 day VLA..--null

Fresh

-- gut instinct on this one being scum at the beginning based on nothing,so far.. Has not proved me wrong- strong scum

Frs99er

So far useless-- slight scum lean

Frogging Mollie

Hardest read so far,very active,but I get the impression we are dealing with much experience,So I'm careful with this one--null,but that could change by the minute with this one

GuyinFreezer

has a green name so obviously is something on this site. Must know better,absence seems intentional -- scum read

hiplop

--shares my view on Varsoon--town lean

Jaqen Hghar

-- A very Argonian name.. came in and was put on defensive right away,have to look a little deeper to see if there is any substance to it--very very slight town read..

Kaboose

-- Most of his posts so far are responses to Frog Mollie. I don't know what to make of that. if anyhting--null

mastin2

-- This one comes off as "I own this room.. I own you".. I can't tell you how much I can't stand that,and it's always a nice shroud for scummy behavior--One of my biggest scum reads atm

Mushroom Mollie

--absolute waste of space so far.. null read but name in red because..1 post..

Nachomama8

-- ditto

Hawk

-- I don't see the votes on him carrying any weight,and one was supposed to be removed but it was done in error,so he has 2--town lean

Psychlone

-- Already gave feedback to him personally. I like his scumhunting,the question mark posts gotta go though--null

Saint

-- I can't say enough about how this playstyle just screams scum to me. One sentence blasts dont impress me. -- Scum lean

Scorpious

-- obviously an asshole..

SeikoxNaomi

-- Town lean until #785 where caps became cruise control for cool. I don't like tantrums--scum lean

SingerSigner

-- Seems to vote whatever it feels the need to,whenever although,I have a gut town lean

The Antagonist

-- in 933 he is talking about how a lot of you know each other and "we're" likely to slip..did he?--scum lean

Irish Pope

-- Seems invested enough,obviously knows many here.. town lean

Varsoon

-- to quote myself "If this guy is scum,he's earned D2-- null

ZZZX

--didn't like his comment about SK's.--scum lean

[Focus Beam]

Really, people referring to the slot by saying things along the lines of "I want to lynch Titus" are painting the slot as "Titus" to make it easier and more palatable to lynch.

This is the first I've heard about a "scummy" push. Elaborate. You're not wagoning me because I'm "mean". Then why was your first question about the 1 v 1 how I'm mean?

If I was "doing scummy things" at the time you first voted me, you would have mentioned them. The only scummy thing I did was be wagoned. That's not scummy at all. You didn't have a "change of heart". There was nothing "obviously scummy" by that point in the game. If there was and you were town, you would have said there's an obvious scumpost by Focus Beam, see I told you they make their alignment obvious. It would have been consistent. Your vote was nothing more than opportunism, and you're now trying to sell it as not opportunism.

There's no such thing as a premature defense to bullshit. If it's bullshit, there's no required time to wait to call it out. You're trying to sell obvious town meta as scum because I'm smart enough to fake it. Fucking really? I don't value meta but anything can be dismissed as Focus Beam is playing to their town meta, so it has to be scum. That's one hell of a strawman. Anything townie I do can then be sold as a scum action. I don't care how I look, I care about lynching scum but I'm a little frustrated that I'm always the target of a day 1 mislynch. You did this in Pathfinder and you're doing it here.

People being told they are wrong makes people angry. Nothing I do is designed to get an angry response. Frankly, other people tell each other they are wrong, and no one gets angry. I say so and it's painted as the big bad evil Titus.

Also, I love how you're calling my push on you parroting when I called you out for your terrible vote on me in the next post. There's no one I could have been parroting.

Sal, I am not pissed at you. I'm frustrated and I feel sorry for you but no you've done nothing wrong.

~Titus

[Focus Beam]

Aeris

- Sooo much content,hard to sift through it all,Seemed genuinely upset about not getting my role. I was also thinking it may be an alt based on the lack of meta people were talking about. null for me

Antihero

- 2 posts, I hate that.. could be hiding scum-- scum lean

Bulbazak

- Same, no effort..could be hiding scum-- scum lean

CB

-looks like effort was started but then nothing since,curious to why.. null

Feysal

-Thoughts seemed measured,some vote jumping,but I see nothing wrong with that-- town lean

Flubbernugget

- Seems very reactive to others,not really offering much of his own hunting,lots of vote hopping-- null

Focus

-- was put on the defensive early,many,many...many posts,would take hours to provide something accurate,been nice but not overly nice to me-- null

FSS

-- shared the same early thoughts as I on Aeris,then 3 day VLA..--null

Fresh

-- gut instinct on this one being scum at the beginning based on nothing,so far.. Has not proved me wrong- strong scum

Frs99er

So far useless-- slight scum lean

Frogging Mollie

Hardest read so far,very active,but I get the impression we are dealing with much experience,So I'm careful with this one--null,but that could change by the minute with this one

GuyinFreezer

has a green name so obviously is something on this site. Must know better,absence seems intentional -- scum read

hiplop

--shares my view on Varsoon--town lean

Jaqen Hghar

-- A very Argonian name.. came in and was put on defensive right away,have to look a little deeper to see if there is any substance to it--very very slight town read..

Kaboose

-- Most of his posts so far are responses to Frog Mollie. I don't know what to make of that. if anyhting--null

mastin2

-- This one comes off as "I own this room.. I own you".. I can't tell you how much I can't stand that,and it's always a nice shroud for scummy behavior--One of my biggest scum reads atm

Mushroom Mollie

--absolute waste of space so far.. null read but name in red because..1 post..

Nachomama8

-- ditto

Hawk

-- I don't see the votes on him carrying any weight,and one was supposed to be removed but it was done in error,so he has 2--town lean

Psychlone

-- Already gave feedback to him personally. I like his scumhunting,the question mark posts gotta go though--null

Saint

-- I can't say enough about how this playstyle just screams scum to me. One sentence blasts dont impress me. -- Scum lean

Scorpious

-- obviously an asshole..

SeikoxNaomi

-- Town lean until #785 where caps became cruise control for cool. I don't like tantrums--scum lean

SingerSigner

-- Seems to vote whatever it feels the need to,whenever although,I have a gut town lean

The Antagonist

-- in 933 he is talking about how a lot of you know each other and "we're" likely to slip..did he?--scum lean

Irish Pope

-- Seems invested enough,obviously knows many here.. town lean

Varsoon

-- to quote myself "If this guy is scum,he's earned D2-- null

ZZZX

--didn't like his comment about SK's.--scum lean

You're reading some of the hydra heads outside of their hydras. You should compare your list to the first post.

~Titus

[singersigner]

We could always lynch this instead

[7] Focus Beam (singersigner, The Antagonist, Frogging Mollie, mastin2, Seiko x Naomi, Feysal, Varsoon)

D:
Either singer is scum or my reads are terrible.

Vote: singersigner

Let's find out!

[7] Focus Beam (singersigner, The Antagonist, Frogging Mollie, mastin2, Seiko x Naomi, Feysal, Varsoon)

D:
Either singer is scum or my reads are terrible.

Vote: singersigner

Let's find out!

...wat.

Well, I have town reads on Focus + Focus's entire wagon except for you.

I'm not even voting them.

Why don't you have a town read on me?

It was GiF's thought that there was probably scum on the Focus wagon after its big jump because it formed quickly enough for scum to be comfortable hiding a bad vote in the rush. It seemed like a good place to start: sometimes I find that limiting my reads to smaller sections in a large playerlist helps me deal with the largeness of large games better.

I am not sure that I will end up without a town read on you: your last post was good and I can't remember posting I disliked except maybe the initial attack on Varsoon.

This doesn't even make sense. I was the first RVS vote on them. So your theory was that I was psychic and just knew a wagon would pop up on them so I quickly "hid" my vote there first?

No. More "one scum on the wagon at least regardless of how it formed, more likely because of this reason".

What is going on here with your read on Focus Beam?

Town, then scum, then vote singer as the only scum on the Town!Focus Beam wagon?

GiF was the person who read Focus Beam as town, I initially read them as scum since Titus was acting weird in her interactions with Mollie early game. Then Salamence made that overdramatic "YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO ME" post and I started to townread the slot more than I did before.

Then (or around that time), GiF and I started to talk, we both agreed Focus!town and it seemed likely there was at least one scum on the wagon if Focus wasn't town. I agreed, I looked at the wagon and it consisted of the 6 town reads I had and just named and singer. I voted singer.

ISO of her showed a subtle towntell that I didn't pick up on the first time through, so I unvoted and am currently looking at the wagon closer than I was before.

@singer - gif suggests that there is at least one scum in focus wagon bc focus looked town. Nacho says that if there's one it's p singer. Later he changes mind.

@notsci: dunno about titus but Sala looks town.

This last post shows that the progression of their thought process was full of shit.
They first said because scum was hiding one the wagon - bullshit because hiding would have to imply the vote came

after

the first one (mine).
Then they said because the wagon just had scum on it - bullshit because of the aforementioned "hiding" comment...even giving them the benefit of the doubt that they misspoke previously, it's a really baseless accusation to do without any flips and would have to be working with the knowledge that either Focus is actually town (meaning they're scum) or at the very least, not on their scum team (meaning they're scum).

I think Nacho "changed his mind" because he realized there was no legitimate way he could call me scum.

[singersigner]

We could always lynch this instead

[7] Focus Beam (singersigner, The Antagonist, Frogging Mollie, mastin2, Seiko x Naomi, Feysal, Varsoon)

D:
Either singer is scum or my reads are terrible.

Vote: singersigner

Let's find out!

[7] Focus Beam (singersigner, The Antagonist, Frogging Mollie, mastin2, Seiko x Naomi, Feysal, Varsoon)

D:
Either singer is scum or my reads are terrible.

Vote: singersigner

Let's find out!

...wat.

Well, I have town reads on Focus + Focus's entire wagon except for you.

I'm not even voting them.

Why don't you have a town read on me?

It was GiF's thought that there was probably scum on the Focus wagon after its big jump because it formed quickly enough for scum to be comfortable hiding a bad vote in the rush. It seemed like a good place to start: sometimes I find that limiting my reads to smaller sections in a large playerlist helps me deal with the largeness of large games better.

I am not sure that I will end up without a town read on you: your last post was good and I can't remember posting I disliked except maybe the initial attack on Varsoon.

This doesn't even make sense. I was the first RVS vote on them. So your theory was that I was psychic and just knew a wagon would pop up on them so I quickly "hid" my vote there first?

No. More "one scum on the wagon at least regardless of how it formed, more likely because of this reason".

What is going on here with your read on Focus Beam?

Town, then scum, then vote singer as the only scum on the Town!Focus Beam wagon?

GiF was the person who read Focus Beam as town, I initially read them as scum since Titus was acting weird in her interactions with Mollie early game. Then Salamence made that overdramatic "YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO ME" post and I started to townread the slot more than I did before.

Then (or around that time), GiF and I started to talk, we both agreed Focus!town and it seemed likely there was at least one scum on the wagon if Focus wasn't town. I agreed, I looked at the wagon and it consisted of the 6 town reads I had and just named and singer. I voted singer.

ISO of her showed a subtle towntell that I didn't pick up on the first time through, so I unvoted and am currently looking at the wagon closer than I was before.

@singer - gif suggests that there is at least one scum in focus wagon bc focus looked town. Nacho says that if there's one it's p singer. Later he changes mind.

@notsci: dunno about titus but Sala looks town.

This last post shows that the progression of their thought process was full of shit.
They first said because scum was hiding one the wagon - bullshit because hiding would have to imply the vote came

after

the first one (mine).
Then they said because the wagon just had scum on it - bullshit because of the aforementioned "hiding" comment...even giving them the benefit of the doubt that they misspoke previously, it's a really baseless accusation to do without any flips and would have to be working with the knowledge that either Focus is actually town (meaning they're scum) or at the very least, not on their scum team (meaning they're scum).

I think Nacho "changed his mind" because he realized there was no legitimate way he could call me scum.

[Focus Beam]

Singer, possibly but I don't think so. If you know that I'm going to get wagoned as long as I'm not on a scumteam (meaning they had a townread on me), anyone can hide on my wagon. The first vote is no exception, particularly if you have a setup where you'd have to test my alignment because I've only rolled scum at you. Pre-built justification there.

I'm in more of the "Nacho's reads are terrible" camp myself.

There is one thing that I could do that could be calling you as scum, but at that point, you'd have to be scum with Aeris anyway and it's a little to semantic for my tastes even. If Aeris flips scum, I'll be looking back at it in a heartbeat but without that you're town. Aeris has enough scummy things to be done in her own right. If she was an alt, own up to it and say "I'm an alt, so while I hate scum, I don't have scum meta on this alt".

[TheIrishPope]

I like singer for town. Cool kids club:
Me
Singer
Antagonist
Nacho
hiplop

[Scorpious]

You're reading some of the hydra heads outside of their hydras. You should compare your list to the first post.

seriously,dont face palm me because..hydra.. I'm really starting to dislike the whole idea in general.

[Varsoon]

Now I'm having some serious second thoughts about the FocusBeam thing, if only because of the replace-out mention and how seriously they're taking this.

Glad to see the reads, Scorp. Do you typically baseline-read players as scum?

[Scorpious]

Now I'm having some serious second thoughts about the FocusBeam thing, if only because of the replace-out mention and how seriously they're taking this.

Glad to see the reads, Scorp. Do you typically baseline-read players as scum?

unfortunately yes, I know that's not great play, but I'm still learning. This is my 5th game of mafia

[Varsoon]

It's all good, man.
While one of the problems with that approach is that it's easier to buy into early mislynches, it does hold players to a higher standard of 'earning' their town status.
I think it may be more useful to start with a town-basis, if only due to 75% of players being town in most games. You'll at least be more 'correct'.

Regardless, it's helpful to know.

[Focus Beam]

Now I'm having some serious second thoughts about the FocusBeam thing, if only because of the replace-out mention and how seriously they're taking this.

Glad to see the reads, Scorp. Do you typically baseline-read players as scum?

That's why I can't. It would be a "strategic" replace out in every sense of the word. I discussed this with Sal. He disagreed saying it would be more from the toxic environment, but I knew that I would be replacing out so people couldn't paint us as a mislynch because we're "Titus". That's not how the system is meant to be used.

~Titus

[Scorpious]

I think it may be more useful to start with a town-basis, if only due to 75% of players being town in most games. You'll at least be more 'correct'.

So essentially, look at everyone as town until they do something that looks otherwise? I've been going at it completley opposite,and it doesn't seem to go well. I draw uneeded pressure somehow,I find myself being defensive often. then I end up doing more defense and like you,i get super pissed.. then i look more scummy..