FF7 Mafia (Game Over)

[Feysal]

The only thing that even *resembles* a push towards getting them lynched is 945/946 and then the follow-up in 951. She decides out of nowhere to "1v1" Varsoon.

Out of nowhere, really? Focus Beam started their push on Varsoon in post #213 and kept it up consistently up to post #796, and came back to it later. Sure they have done other things too, like the argument about the validity of vote count analysis, but they have kept coming back to Varsoon. In particular posts #495 and #498 are memorable for pushing Varsoon into rageposting. How did you miss that?

I don't think Focus Beam have so much given up on Varsoon as they have accepted it is not happening today. The wagon on Varsoon has been there all day and stalled long ago. No use beating a dead horse.

[The Antagonist]

I don't think Focus Beam have so much given up on Varsoon as they have accepted it is not happening today. The wagon on Varsoon has been there all day and stalled long ago. No use beating a dead horse.

they said they would 1v1 it they have far from given up

also they should isome for that bulb read

[Focus Beam]

The Antagonist, why can't you just answer a straightforward question. I don't see anything directly even when ISOing unless it's "blub" is Bulbazak. Second, even if you meant Bulbazak, I don't know why you think he's town. I'm trying to engage you here but why do you have to be like this every game?

~Titus

[Focus Beam]

I don't think Focus Beam have so much given up on Varsoon as they have accepted it is not happening today. The wagon on Varsoon has been there all day and stalled long ago. No use beating a dead horse.

they said they would 1v1 it they have far from given up

also they should isome for that bulb read

I would be happy to lynch Varsoon but yeah, that wagon's not happening at the moment. Focusing exclusively on one scumread stalls the game. I think I've said this at least twice before now.

~Titus

[TheIrishPope]

^ TIP i actually find feysal to be one of the more townie folks around? I dont see what you see there?

Why do you say that? Like, he's just swimming around the real issue, not giving any hard reads and not confronting someone head on (or even asking someone about stuff) to see what they think or get a reaction. I just feel like town wouldn't
1. take care of their image so well
2. buddy so blatantly
3. have the orchestration that Feysal has in his posts.
Give me one of his posts that looks town to you and I'll see what I think of it.

@TiP, You've been saying a lot about who you don't like, and I disagree with most of it. Who do you like?

Cool kids club post, will quote now

[TheIrishPope]

I like singer for town. Cool kids club:
Me
Singer
Antagonist
Nacho
hiplop

[Focus Beam]

@Tip, Totally interfering here, but I'm partial to 1065 (I hope that worked right).

Also, thanks for the quote. I get not immediately scumreading Nacho (there's a plausible explanation for his posts), but I don't see how he's in your cool kids club. The rest I can go along with.

Have you sorted Bulbazak yet?

[Frogging Mollie]

@Tip, Totally interfering here, but I'm partial to 1065 (I hope that worked right).

Also, thanks for the quote. I get not immediately scumreading Nacho (there's a plausible explanation for his posts), but I don't see how he's in your cool kids club. The rest I can go along with.

Have you sorted Bulbazak yet?

whats the plausible explanation?

[hiplop]

@hiplop, no not really. My wagon started as a super fast RVS wagon and your vote was smack in the middle of it. Take a look at things again please.

Yeah, rvs wagon? real one was slow burning! Also I have yet to vote you this game!

Flubbernugget is totally scum, by the way. Just look at page 45 for evidence. What the fuck is that catch up lol?

@TIP i agree with Titus that 1065 looks quite town!

[Focus Beam]

@Mollie, I think I mentioned this to Singer, but basically Nacho's concerned with people "hiding out" on my wagon and being scum. Singer's saying there's no way to hide I'm the first poster. Yet, Singer's just as aware as we all are that I'm frequently an RVS wagon so someone can easily "hide" their vote there even in the first position. Basically, it's a quibble to me about the definition of hiding, and I'm inclined to believe that Nacho has his reads backwards.

Now, can you answer me if you think The Antagonist and Bulbazak are possible buddies or not? I know ika and I have baggage but I'd like a second pair of eyes. First, The Antagonist (head irrelevant) shoots down my attempts to understand Seiko, calling my question to them a trap. Then here when Bulbazak takes off, now The Antagonist is interested in the Psychone wagon and is particularly targeting Singer. Yet, nothing happened (at least no posts by Nacho) between Singer's generic request for people to vote Psychlone and The Antagonist moving their vote. They posted about many other things, but now the timing seems convienent. Am I reading something there that doesn't exist?

[Focus Beam]

@hiplop, no not really. My wagon started as a super fast RVS wagon and your vote was smack in the middle of it. Take a look at things again please.

Yeah, rvs wagon? real one was slow burning! Also I have yet to vote you this game!

Flubbernugget is totally scum, by the way. Just look at page 45 for evidence. What the fuck is that catch up lol?

@TIP i agree with Titus that 1065 looks quite town!

My apologies. I really thought you did for some reason. Looks like I need to recheck some things as well. I'm usually better with votes.

My wagon hasn't been "slow" at all though. People have been playing roulette with who is on it, but generally my wagon has been around since RVS and stayed just with certain people jumping off and more getting on.

[Frogging Mollie]

@Mollie, I think I mentioned this to Singer, but basically Nacho's concerned with people "hiding out" on my wagon and being scum. Singer's saying there's no way to hide I'm the first poster. Yet, Singer's just as aware as we all are that I'm frequently an RVS wagon so someone can easily "hide" their vote there even in the first position. Basically, it's a quibble to me about the definition of hiding, and I'm inclined to believe that Nacho has his reads backwards.

Now, can you answer me if you think The Antagonist and Bulbazak are possible buddies or not? I know ika and I have baggage but I'd like a second pair of eyes. First, The Antagonist (head irrelevant) shoots down my attempts to understand Seiko, calling my question to them a trap. Then here when Bulbazak takes off, now The Antagonist is interested in the Psychone wagon and is particularly targeting Singer. Yet, nothing happened (at least no posts by Nacho) between Singer's generic request for people to vote Psychlone and The Antagonist moving their vote. They posted about many other things, but now the timing seems convienent. Am I reading something there that doesn't exist?

I am not seeing the plausible explanation for why you think psychlone is scummy

[Focus Beam]

@Mollie, I think I mentioned this to Singer, but basically Nacho's concerned with people "hiding out" on my wagon and being scum. Singer's saying there's no way to hide I'm the first poster. Yet, Singer's just as aware as we all are that I'm frequently an RVS wagon so someone can easily "hide" their vote there even in the first position. Basically, it's a quibble to me about the definition of hiding, and I'm inclined to believe that Nacho has his reads backwards.

Now, can you answer me if you think The Antagonist and Bulbazak are possible buddies or not? I know ika and I have baggage but I'd like a second pair of eyes. First, The Antagonist (head irrelevant) shoots down my attempts to understand Seiko, calling my question to them a trap. Then here when Bulbazak takes off, now The Antagonist is interested in the Psychone wagon and is particularly targeting Singer. Yet, nothing happened (at least no posts by Nacho) between Singer's generic request for people to vote Psychlone and The Antagonist moving their vote. They posted about many other things, but now the timing seems convienent. Am I reading something there that doesn't exist?

I am not seeing the plausible explanation for why you think psychlone is scummy

I was arguing that they are on the town side of null (fewer posts than I'd like).... Singer's the one who thinks they are scummy.

Conjunction junction what's your function...I think we got lost in translation.

[TheIrishPope]

Spoiler:

Recently I've begun to feel that Focus Team is in fact likely to be town.

This was done in response to the Focus wagon dying down and he didn't want to stick out so it makes sense

Beyond their entry in the game I never had anything substantial on them either way, and though I disliked the way they interpreted everything Varsoon did and said as suspicious, I did consider it possible that it was just confirmation bias.

X but y, always contradicting what he used to think in accordance to what the majority thinks. It happens so often that in just these two sentences he's done it four times

Then things started to happen. First there was what Seiko x Naomi said about how Titus plays as town in post #745, namely that Titus pushes her suspects hard and focuses on getting them lynched. This means that what misgivings I had were only about playstyle. It was particularly good that this meta came from someone else, though I find it extremely odd that Seiko x Naomi held this

against

Focus Beam. The way Focus Beam has pushed for Varsoon to be lynched sounds exactly like they described Titus as town.

I don't know what to make of this, but again with the similar contradiction

Then they reconsidered their Varsoon read based on what ProHawk said in post #787, which looked genuine enough for me. And then there is this:

Flubber's vote on Varsoon is terrible, and guess what I'm reaching the point where I don't even fucking care. Being the day 1 "random" lynch by the same people with the same baggage who don't even bother reading me is ridiculous.

How often do you see scum criticizing a vote on their counterwagon? I don't think I have. This may be a subtle thing, but I find those to be the hardest to fake, and trust them more for it.

I actually have a fairly strong town read on Focus Beam at this point, which means we very likely have two rival wagons on town.

But herpderp just now you said that recently you've begun to see Focus as town? Now it's strong? And again, the use of words like fairly and likely allow him the chance to go back and change his train of thought when needed.

I think I made it very obvious that while the Aeris defense was what made me initially think you were scum, it was the way you attacked and sought to discredit your attackers.

I checked, it was indeed the Salamence20 head and not Titus. And I don't think it can be called defending Aeris, since all they said was that they got a slight town read based on their entry post, before Aeris was under any real pressure and did not need to be defended. And when I think about it, I always felt that Focus Beam was fairly relaxed about being voted, with the notable exception of Varsoon.

Also, if anyone can find who said something about there being 2 kills even with more than 2 scum teams, can you quote it? I have a game starting soon, but I'm pretty sure whoever said that is scum. That's not what I saw before, but it is pretty damning.

The closest thing I can remember is Aeris talking about an offsite game in post #902.

I feel like I'm starting to get my bearings as I'm establishing reads on more people. I also believe Frogging Mollie to be town. Players I could see as scum include ProHawk, who could go either way, and maybe mastin2.

either way, maybe, bla bla fence sitting

I know I said I had a town read on mastin2 earlier, but right now I can't even remember exactly why, only that it involved meta.

This is exactly whAHT IM TALKING ABOUT

Also, I was skimming an old game of mine the other day for entertainment, the one my signature quote is from. In that game I correctly read mastin2 as scum and lynched her in LYLO for a town win. As I read my own analysis of how she played in that game it made me worried, since I can't really understand where her reads are coming from now either, and she has been a little too sure of herself. I could go for either of them. Bulbazak too, since I have to agree that his case on Focus Beam is shoddy, or Seiko x Naomi, whose vote I can't even understand.

Jumping on the Bulba wagon because gaining traction

Said some stuff about his ambiguity.
Bulbazak is a counterwagon that stemmed from boredom mostly, and his play has yet not been indicative of scum. He is worth keeping for at least another day, and there are far better choices for a d1 lynch.

[Feysal]

Really? I was starting to get good vibes from you and you do this?

Too bad.

I don't get where you could have gotten your town read on Bulbazak from. He has barely any content, and I don't understand the reasoning behind what little there is. The only thing that really bothers me about being on his wagon is how little it would tell us if he were lynched, since he has had almost no interaction with other players.

I also find it strange how you said you would sheep Frogging Molly if they died, yet your own reads on Focus Beam and Bulbazak are the opposite of theirs.

I've kept forgetting to talk about the thing with singersigner and Psychlone. I'm not sure I buy the case on Psychlone for the simple reason that they are a hydra. The idea that there was scum hiding on the early Focus Beam wagon came from one head, and the choice of which player that was came from another. Based on what they said, it was GuyInFreezer who thought there was scum hiding there, while the hiding part was not that important for Nachomamma8.

[Focus Beam]

@TiP,

Nothing about 1065 is ambiguous to me. What is ambiguous to you?

Bulbazak also didn't stem from boredom at all. Bulbazak stemmed from the fact that his vote on me was terribad. He says he's voting me because he doesn't get what I'm doing in certain posts, yet he gets his head wrong. His whole policy was "If I don't get what Titus is doing, I auto lynch and never turn back". Yet, it wasn't me doing anything he described but the other head. When called upon this, he doubles down despite being told by multiple people that he's wrong.

~Titus

[Focus Beam]

@Feysal,

We seem to be on the same page, a little frighteningly so but I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth when someone finally gets me. When I die (if you're still alive by Day 4 or so) can you do a Vote Count Analysis if I tell you the procedures?

~Titus

[Varsoon]

Did you say that I instigated our 1v1?
Which... wasn't even a 1v1?
:/

[TheIrishPope]

err, not ambiguous. If you read my notes you'll see what i mean.
I understand the bulba thing but maybe when he posts some more i'll look back at his posts and think some more about it.

[Focus Beam]

err, not ambiguous. If you read my notes you'll see what i mean.
I understand the bulba thing but maybe when he posts some more i'll look back at his posts and think some more about it.

Can you try to clarify for me so I can look it over tomorrow?

[TheIrishPope]

Really? I was starting to get good vibes from you and you do this?

Too bad.

I don't get where you could have gotten your town read on Bulbazak from. He has barely any content, and I don't understand the reasoning behind what little there is. The only thing that really bothers me about being on his wagon is how little it would tell us if he were lynched, since he has had almost no interaction with other players.

THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUMREADING BULBA

[Focus Beam]

Really? I was starting to get good vibes from you and you do this?

Too bad.

I don't get where you could have gotten your town read on Bulbazak from. He has barely any content, and I don't understand the reasoning behind what little there is. The only thing that really bothers me about being on his wagon is how little it would tell us if he were lynched, since he has had almost no interaction with other players.

THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUMREADING BULBA

I actually was trying to tell Feysal in a not so subtle way that even if Bulba hasn't interacted with a majority of the group, we can still get reads based on who wants to lynch him and when.

[TheIrishPope]

err, not ambiguous. If you read my notes you'll see what i mean.
I understand the bulba thing but maybe when he posts some more i'll look back at his posts and think some more about it.

Can you try to clarify for me so I can look it over tomorrow?

uh, he's fence sitting. For instance when he says "Players I could see as scum include ProHawk, who could go either way, and maybe mastin2." he allows himself some breathing room later on in the game so people can't call him out based on reads and he can also switch reads depending on the situation.

[TheIrishPope]

This continues throughout the entire post, as well.

[Focus Beam]

Now that actually makes a little more sense and it's something I used to associate with scum, but here the only read that Feysal seems to be fenceshitting on is ProHawk (and I think he's right to because I think ProHawk is town). "Could be" can indicate two things. 1, low self-confidence or 2, a lack of confidence in what he's saying. Here, he's not making a case on why they both could be town. He's arguing why certain slots can be scum. I used to read the "coulds" as fenceshitting but I learned that "coulds" are not always fenceshits. Feysal seems to be a much more reserved kind of player. Plus, town sometimes waffle during day 1 or have reads that aren't 100% certain the player is scum. Saying "so and so could be scum" is appropriate.