FF7 Mafia (Game Over)

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 1.9

[8] Focus Beam (mastin2, Varsoon, TheIrishPope, Seiko x Naomi, Bulbazak, Saint, The Antagonist, hiplop)
[5] Bulbazak (Focus Beam. singersigner, Frogging Mollie, Kaboose, Feysal)
[2] Jaqen Hghar (ZZZX, Fresh)
[2] Varsoon (free stool sample, Flubbernugget)
[1] Kaboose (Prohawk)
[1] Psychlone (Aeris)
[1] singersigner (Psychlone)
[1] The Antagonist (Jaqen Hghar)

[2] Not Voting (CB, Scorpious)

With 23 alive, it is 12 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-08-05 22:00:00)

[Bulbazak]

I'm waiting for Mollie to realize she's on the wrong wagon.

[Frogging Mollie]

Froggy who's shouldn't be in the cool kids club iyo?

psyclone, and anti is like conftown for looking in their direction cos no1 else will cos i can't.

[Frogging Mollie]

I'm waiting for Mollie to realize she's on the wrong wagon.

I am waiting for you to give me a huge townflare so that I don't have to worry about you cos I am

[Bulbazak]

I don't know what else I can say other than I will have your back for as long as I can. You know how I am with reach outs. This is probably the best you're going to get.

[Jaqen Hghar]

Her scum play in Signs and Void looks significantly different.

How? Can you explain? Because I remember her trying to use a lynched townie's reads to start questioning the alignment of a universally town read player, even though said lynched townie was not in any way caught up with the game.

P-edit: Didn't she fool you in HU2? I might be misremembering, but I thought she did.

Anyway, I did plan on taking a break and letting things sort themselves out on my end, but I got really bored and wanted to play a mafia game. I might end up getting a little over my head here, because I still have too many balls in the air, but I'm doing it anyway.

yes you are definitely misremembering.

I just don't she wld do a direct appeal in the way that she did to me as scum. trust me I have thought about it and thought about it some more.

there was something else i wanted to say I think it was to anti

Nothing to me?

hi jaqen

do you have something you wanna talk about?

A man is just wondering how you are looking in leather and lace while rocking a tether.

[Flubbernugget]

She's expressed desensitization to unexplained wagoning and your vote gets a special star because???

My very first post said that I was likely to vote her after I finished my catch up. That vote shouldn't have been surprising. At that point it was unexplained. At that point I would have expected something from her. There was nothing. It was only after I caught up and placed my vote, along with reasoning for said vote (so it's not exactly unexplained, is it?), that she went ballistic. And if anyone would care to read what I've actually said compared to her responses, you'd see that she's nitpicking what I actually said and is not responding to my actual problems with her play whatsoever.

Why is an unexplained intent to vote worth mention

[Frogging Mollie]

jaqen you are married

stop flirting

[Feysal]

Was she ignorant of that? Show me, and then tell me how that is indicative of scum.

Post #104. You did not read the analysis post I linked to did you? In it I explained how feigned ignorance could be abused for town points, because scum should not be so clueless.

I don't think anyone knows what Mastin is thinking. Heck, I don't know what you're thinking most of the time. Should I be convinced that makes you scum?

You pretty much dismissed everything I said about mastin2 as null tells. How does one read mastin2 then? Her play so far seems to match my experience of her scum meta perfectly. Is she allowed to pull reads out of nowhere and not to explain anything?

I tend to trust things I understand and suspect what I don't. If I can see the town thought process leading to a conclusion, that is fine, even if I may not always agree with that conclusion. If there is something about my thoughts you don't understand, you can ask.

I am having trouble understanding where some of your reads came from. You said you began to suspect Focus Titus for defending Aeris. It was in fact Focus Salamence20, but more importantly he only gave Aeris a slight town read based on her entrance, before she was under any pressure. The timing does not add up. For instance I gave Aeris a town read later, so it would have been more fair to accuse me of defending her, yet you did not. You have some other reads I also wonder about, such as Saint being town and CB scum, when both have done so little I can't sort them anywhere. What is the difference?

How? Can you explain? Because I remember her trying to use a lynched townie's reads to start questioning the alignment of a universally town read player, even though said lynched townie was not in any way caught up with the game.

I did not read that far. What I wanted to see was whether I could see the difference in her play that Seiko x Naomi described, and I thought it was apparent enough from reading the first day. It was not her only scum game I looked at either. I definitely see more conviction behind her push on Varsoon here than I did in those scum games.

[Fresh]

So people being willing to policy lynch someone is a good reason to town read a slot. Thats pretty neat....

Yea its bullshit because you're lynching them on behavior instead of play and that's how you mislynch.

Good misrep of me there Haqen Jghar. Good job.

[Jaqen Hghar]

It's only a misrep if it isn't what you said, Fresh. And it is. I really hope you're crosskilled tonight.

[Frogging Mollie]

So people being willing to policy lynch someone is a good reason to town read a slot. Thats pretty neat....

Yea its bullshit because you're lynching them on behavior instead of play and that's how you mislynch.

Good misrep of me there Haqen Jghar. Good job.

as much as jaqen and I are in deep disagreement right now and we are gonna fight, that was a generalized statement from him so why are you personalizing it?

[Frogging Mollie]

I don't know what else I can say other than I will have your back for as long as I can. You know how I am with reach outs. This is probably the best you're going to get.

also

UNVOTE:

[Bulbazak]

Why is an unexplained intent to vote worth mention

I feel like we're going around in circles here, because I just got done answering your question about unexplained votes. Frankly my point is that Titus acting like my vote came out of nowhere is ridiculous, as I had indicated a willingness to vote her previously. Yet she ignored that post and only jumped on me when I actually put the vote down. I would think that there would have been some previous acknowledgement if town. It's not important one way or another, but I think it does deflate any notion that Titus thought my vote was sudden. If she wants to argue it's bad, fine, she's doing a sloppy job of that so far, but she can't act like it just appeared out of nowhere.

Was she ignorant of that? Show me, and then tell me how that is indicative of scum.

Post #104. You did not read the analysis post I linked to did you? In it I explained how feigned ignorance could be abused for town points, because scum should not be so clueless.

Feigned ignorance can be used like that, but what makes you think it's feigned? Personally, I don't see Mastin as the kind of player who would try that gambit as scum. It's just too risky, and there's too little reward.

You pretty much dismissed everything I said about mastin2 as null tells. How does one read mastin2 then? Her play so far seems to match my experience of her scum meta perfectly.

I normally give her until at least d2 and watch how certain other players, who know her better, react to her. I look for more refined play indicators, because I know that she can manipulate her meta, and if she did it as scum or town, she can do it the other way. Essentially, I watch her play when everything becomes more defined. We're not there yet. Give it time, look at the reasoning and the play at that point, then make your decision.

Is she allowed to pull reads out of nowhere and not to explain anything?

I think this argument is a moot point, because other players give unexplained reads at certain points, including myself. Should she be allowed to? I don't know, and I really don't care. She does, and you just deal with it and wait to see how she plays going forward and what her reasoning is when she decides it's time to explain it.

You said you began to suspect Focus Titus for defending Aeris. It was in fact Focus Salamence20, but more importantly he only gave Aeris a slight town read based on her entrance, before she was under any pressure. The timing does not add up. For instance I gave Aeris a town read later, so it would have been more fair to accuse me of defending her, yet you did not.

In my read of the game, the defense came very close to the ProHawk/Aeris back and forth, and I felt the hydra's townread didn't feel right in those circumstances. It's really a non-point, but that's how I felt and what made me pay closer attention to them. For you, your read on Aeris felt well articulated, and I could see how you could reach that conclusion. Theirs just seemed to come out of nowhere at a convenient time.

You have some other reads I also wonder about, such as Saint being town and CB scum, when both have done so little I can't sort them anywhere. What is the difference?

The manner in which they've posted. Saint's posts seem very genuine, and I'm not seeing any sort of manipulation or deceit from that slot. There's really no filter, and I like that and think it's more likely to come from town. CB's first post was actually just IIoA, and he actually came to zero conclusions. It just seemed like filler to look like he was doing something. It just seems like he's trying to stay in the shadows.

[Flubbernugget]

@Flubber I'll reply more in depth in 3 hours because I'm at work right now on my phone but basically just seemed like a regurgitation to what had already been said? Seemed like you were laying the seeds to jump on a bunch of various wagons rather b than actually saying what you thought!

For what it's worth of I'm regurgitating things before I've read them, it would only be scummy if I was copying the words of scum

[Seiko x Naomi]

I'm popping in to say that after I think 7 games of misreading town-mastin as scum every time and spectating a few games she was in where she was town the way I would ideally want to read her is based on the way she's reading people (this is also how I read her the only time I actually did catch her as scum). however, that goes to shit in this game because of it being multiball. so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Flubbernugget]

Why is an unexplained intent to vote worth mention

I feel like we're going around in circles here, because I just got done answering your question about unexplained votes. Frankly my point is that Titus acting like my vote came out of nowhere is ridiculous, as I had indicated a willingness to vote her previously. Yet she ignored that post and only jumped on me when I actually put the vote down. I would think that there would have been some previous acknowledgement if town. It's not important one way or another, but I think it does deflate any notion that Titus thought my vote was sudden. If she wants to argue it's bad, fine, she's doing a sloppy job of that so far, but she can't act like it just appeared out of nowhere.

Sal made like half a paragraph of ATE

Titus attacked the logic of your accusations

This is like blatantly trying to misconstrue things

[Frogging Mollie]

OHHHHH MAAAAAASTIIIIIIINNNNAAAAH

[singersigner]

Froggy who's shouldn't be in the cool kids club iyo?

psyclone, and anti is like conftown for looking in their direction cos no1 else will cos i can't.

Um.

[CB]

[7] Focus Beam (singersigner, The Antagonist, Frogging Mollie, mastin2, Seiko x Naomi, Feysal, Varsoon)

D:
Either singer is scum or my reads are terrible.

Vote: singersigner

Let's find out!

Ew

----------------

There's also a bunch of other little stuff here and there but the big takeaway point is that I don't think mastin-scum in multiball plays to get townread; mastin-scum in multiball plays to get mislynches or plays slightly scummily to increase survival rate, and this most definitely isn't that.

I don't think it a coincidence that you are basically playing like you expect Mastin-scum to.

VOTE: Psychlone

[mastin2]

mastina i am pretty sure I have not ever been wrong about you except for pikman and even then I came to the conclusion you were town and you were. my hydra partners might have been wrong about you but i haven't been.

I don't know why I have it somewhere in my head then that you have been, then. Coulda sworn it was somewhere, but I wouldn't have the faintest idea where to look and you could very well be right about it not existing.

Don't know why I don't think of you as having perfect accuracy then, if you haven't misread me. Maybe there was a long gap where we didn't play together and I simply omitted you when thinking about stuff like the flowchart?

(Yes, I'm back here. Been busy. I've got time to catch up today, though. So hopefully I will, even though since I'm less than half-way through the thread, I'm kinda demotivated by the prospect of trudging through that many pages.)

[mastin2]

@ProHawk, No. Not really. Mollie's more reserved. I've never seen her come out and threaten so aggressively out of RVS. Most of the counterwagon to Jaquen is people who I've had severe baggage with, which is why I wanted to enquire further. Mollie shouldn't have such baggage with me if I haven't fooled her as scum. Frogger and I have played more on Skype mafia than completed games, so I know the hostility is unlikely fueled by that head. So is she legit pissed, or just drawing a reaction here?

~Titus

Vote: Focus Beam

I'm not sure I need to read any further, but will do so anyways.

Suck me to the bone, because you can call me a sucker.
I like this Nacho for being town.
(And my psychic predictions continue to be...MOSTLY true!)

you know that kind of scumgame for me was a once (or twice)-in-a-lifetime kind of thing and i had the SIGNIFICANT advantage of tth helping me out there, right?

Yeah, but here you have the advantage of multiball to legit scumhunt, not to mention ika. I realize you're both lurkers as scum and right now you're not lurking, but when I read your posts, I got the impression that they were...well, kinda, "flashy", if that makes sense: meant to look good and establish early towncred...specifically so that later in the game, you could lurk, cruising on that early towncred, as a, "But look at their early content! It was so town!" type thing. That's the vibe I got from both heads' posts.

[mastin2]

[6] Jaqen Hghar (

ZZZX, Prohawk, Fresh

, TheIrishPope, Saint,

The Antagonist

)
[5] Varsoon (free stool sample,

Focus Beam

, Flubbernugget, Scorpious, singersigner)
[4] Focus Beam (mastin2, Seiko x Naomi,

Varsoon

, Psychlone)

Yeah, uh, that Jaqen wagon? Not exactly looking Pro-town. Doesn't mean Jaqen's town, but...not exactly appetizing.

In comparison, both the Focus Beam and Varsoon wagons look like they have promise, soyeah.

[7] Focus Beam (singersigner,

The Antagonist

, Frogging Mollie, mastin2, Seiko x Naomi, Feysal,

Varsoon

)

D:
Either singer is scum or my reads are terrible.

Well given how much my reads conflict with yours, either mine are terrible, or yours are and singer's town.

I'd like to think singer's town (plus, my reads are, well, y'know, my reads; I try to make them not be bad), thus, your reads must be terrible.

Btw, will probably take a break to eat, and I'm also frequently taking breaks to multitask elsewhere so that catching up doesn't become monotonous. (Also, I'm probably gonna skim a fair amount. Sorry.)

[Bulbazak]

There's also a bunch of other little stuff here and there but the big takeaway point is that I don't think mastin-scum in multiball plays to get townread; mastin-scum in multiball plays to get mislynches or plays slightly scummily to increase survival rate, and this most definitely isn't that.

I don't think it a coincidence that you are basically playing like you expect Mastin-scum to.

VOTE: Psychlone

I think I'm going to quote you here:

Ew

I think that about sums it up.

[mastin2]

Didn't you say that the town reads on people yet to post were erroneous?

No, they're serious and accurate, aside from maybe Kaboose.

That being said, there's subtext. Bulbazak has posted (I checked--I cheated and have skimmed his iso because I had this in my head ever since my readslist and checking briefly was the first thing I did after my post to mollie) by now, so no harm in hiding this bit, to use as an example. The bit about coughing up blood carries a hidden double-meaning. It means that I'm, legitimately townreading Bulbazak. I think what he's doing is immensely more likely to be from town than scum...but the line that I'm mimicking? Comes from Maniacal Street Mafia...

a multiball game where Bulbazak was scum

. So the hidden double-meaning there is that while I think Bulbazak is town, I don't have the normal strength of read in him that I did in, say, Signs and Void, because there's the lingering paranoia that he is an A+ scum player in multiball. (Basically, single-ball scum-Bulbazak is easy for me to find, detect, and lynch. Multi-ball scum Bulbazak? Frankly, if I wasn't the mod of the game, I don't think I would have read him correctly because he's THAT good.)

In short, that he's probably town, but not definitely town. (Analysis which holds true. Speaking of which, I caught spoilers as to a little bit of Feysal content by doing the Bulb iso, but don't expect me to respond to it until I get to the actual point in thread where it was; I prefer my catchups to be as linear as possible and in some ways regret having gotten the Bulb spoilers. Because right now, I'm in partial violation of a flowchart rule, about getting caught up. It's only a partial violation because I'm only talking about a small fraction of the thread, seeing that I have a Bulbazak wagon I'll need to dismount assuming that I want to which I think I will, but it IS technically me breaking my no-reading-ahead rule I self-enforce as town. Sorry. Just pretend that I don't know anything from the future, because for 97.5% of it, I legitimately DON'T*.)

*And to give a partial answer to how my mind works, a spoiler I caught, the answer is, if you couldn't tell by the above, extremely contrived convoluted ways that not even I fully know or understand. Basically, I prefer to catch up "as I go", but because I had this nagging thought in my mind about the Nacho quote on Bulbazak in my head for, what, three days? Something like that, I broke that convention briefly to iso Bulbazak and see what my thoughts are. Don't like his white knight of me, but otherwise find no problem in his posting from the brief iso skim I did, thus the statement that I made originally stands.