Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[Thespio]

HenryCabotLodge has been prodded.

Ty

[JoramvanVugt]

its hard for me to read all the posts, but i dont think my vote will change. we should just hammer NS. Thespio the reason why you arent hammering is because he is your scumbuddy, if he is mafia, my vote will be on you tomorrow 100%

[Thespio]

its hard for me to read all the posts, but i dont think my vote will change. we should just hammer NS. Thespio the reason why you arent hammering is because he is your scumbuddy, if he is mafia, my vote will be on you tomorrow 100%

No, actually im not voting him because its opportunistic for BBT, why were you voting him again, you think he is scum? anything Specific?

[Thespio]

Pretty slow...

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 2.6

Unsocial Networking

notscience

(4): HenryCabotLodge, JoramvanVugt, Bulbazoor, BlueBloodedToffee

BlueBloodedToffee

(2): Micc, Thespio

Bulbazoor

(1): Akuseru

Not Voting

(1): notscience

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: August 5, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-08-04 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

notscience is v/la until July 31
-

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, catching up.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Couple of things before I respond to Thespio's post;

2. Some of those accusations don't explicitly mention thespio, and I doubt he clicked the links, so he most likely skipped over them. thespio only looks and focuses on anything he could use for his cases and for the most part ignores the rest (ahhhh so scummy...b-but I still think he's town @_@).

Aku, I need you to explain that Thespio town read.

No, I read him as scum as well, its odd you accused him but you have left him out at the same time. Push NS all you want but if you read bulba too then you need to explain why NS is worse then Bulba.

Your vote seems to fall into the same category as what you accuse me of as well, you are sheeping, you have no support that you can show (Yes i know you have a recap but its not in there). On top of that you are jumping on a wagon literally because you see it as a popular wagon, that is your support for ending the day.

You think it's odd that I scum read Bulba but have not explained it and yet I've done the very same thing to you. The fact is, I will lynch any of you and right now NS is the most likely to get lynched and I'm super happy to do that. I'm not sheeping anyone, I have shown why I think NS is scum. I am voting NS because he is the leading wagon out of my scum reads. If Henry was the leading wagon, I would not vote him. If Joram was the leading wagon, I would not vote him etc etc. If one of my scum reads is a leading wagon, you better believe I'm coming along for the ride.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

At the end of this BBT states that swapping views is a towntell for him, however he drills me for it. It seems inconsistent

Correct, I did state this. However, not all the same tells apply to the same people. I explained this further to Aku here;

I find this funny, because one of that's one of the contributing reasons why I think thespio is town. His criteria for scum can be used to describe himself. It's this absurd mindset and play that have me doubt thespio could be mafia.

It was also one of the reasons I was initially thinking he could be town. He seems to play on emotion, but I now think that's play-style and he would do the exact same thing as scum so therefore it becomes null.

It looks like BBT is trying to appeal to joram even though he was scum reading him earlier on.

That is in no way an appeal to someone and you appear to be scum reading me for developing reads...

Theres no link to this, is it bad that im trying not to tunnel? Should I ignore people to tunnel one person? You just said earlier this was scummy, but you dont think so anymore?

I haven't even mentioned tunneling. You still haven't responded to my accusation of you buddying the IC or the fact that your reads match the game state all the time.

I agree, this is why i asked him to read himself, You on the other hand wont...

This has been explained to you numerous times. I can't even...

Are you copying HCL? didnt you just scum read me because i was following with everyone else?

Reach harder? I was clearly in the middle of writing a big catch up post and my post came two minutes after Henry's, you cannot seriously try to scum read me for that.

Further, are you admitting it's scummy to follow everyone else?

Pretty sure this ^ is just for aesthetics, you drilled micc most of the game until you decided to focus me, after you noticed joram was easily manipulated.

Stating reads after a catch up is now 'aesthetics'...I honestly don't know how to respond to that.

I believe if we lynch Bulba/NS/Thespio we win the game. I don't particularly care what order but my strongest scum read is Thespio.

But you dont vote me? even when there was over 15 days left @ this post? Yea... your a hypocrite too! you drill me about moving with the public opinion but then you align with them? you literally vote NS because:

Didn't vote for you because one of my other scum reads had a bigger wagon and I don't particularly care which of you gets lynched first.

So basically you Voted with the largest wagon.... Nice, but this would make you fall in your own category of scum.

I'm 80% sure you are scum.

Correct, I voted NS because he is one of my scum reads AND he has the biggest wagon. You're focusing on the wrong parts of the statement...of course, you need to do that because if you accept that I'm actually scum reading NS your whole case on me falls apart.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

They were mostlikely waiting on me, And it doesnt look scummy that micc told us he would be reading and online. How do you see someone keeping you up to date rather then just disappearing as scum behavior?

Because scum like to prod dodge before they are actually prodded. Responding to a prod makes it look like you're lurking, preemptively stopping a prod dodge and declaring you will do ~things~ appears more town.

I thought you were reading him as town.

I still am. Doesn't mean I can't point out things I don't like.

[Thespio]

Correct, I voted NS because he is one of my scum reads AND he has the biggest wagon. You're focusing on the wrong parts of the statement...of course, you need to do that because if you accept that I'm actually scum reading NS your whole case on me falls apart.

So let me get this strait, when I read someone as scum and start a wagon, you accuse me of going with the flow of the game, but when you jump on a wagon LITERALLY BECAUSE IT THE BIGGEST, you are town? yeah... nice. Your logic is just as bad as mine in retrospect. You play by purely antagonizing people.

[Akuseru]

Aku, I need you to explain that Thespio town read.

I told you one reason already. However, you interpret that as null - I don't entirely disagree with that view, but it's this behaviour in addition to the level of investment in this game that makes me feel like he's town, or at least not as near to my suspicions of some other players.

[Micc]

Wooo apathy.

Thats skim got exponentially less in depth with each passing page. BBT catch up struck me as null overall. I don't didn't see any analysis that struck me as particularly in depth. Thespio buddying me is probably the most notable observation. I'll have to look back and see if I think its accurate.

I saw Thespio pushing BBT but skimmed most of it. Then there were a couple pages I didnt read.

Overall I don't think much has changed for me. Akuseru and HCL as town, everybody else a mixed bag of assorted question marks. NS wagon seems destined to go through. I dont think its all that good of a lynch but im willing to accept it because ive got more paranoia over reading him than anyone else.

Id like to drag this out (sorry) until a NS gets back so that he can weigh in on BBT replace in. That should give me time to be here as well.

[JoramvanVugt]

I want NS to defend himself, but has he been on in like the last 48 hours?

[Thespio]

I want NS to defend himself, but has he been on in like the last 48 hours?

No he said he would be gone a while. Check mod post above for the date.

[HenryCabotLodge]

Sorry everyone, I'm here and catching up. Went camping for the weekend and was in no condition to post. Should have been more specific about it in my posts.

[Thespio]

Sorry everyone, I'm here and catching up. Went camping for the weekend and was in no condition to post. Should have been more specific about it in my posts.

Thats fine, I was really bummed when you were prodded, I hate replacements and people, but replacements more. Do you think its possible that NS is scum and BBT is using him for town cred?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What? I'm now scum with NS?

We should turbo lynch NS and when he flips scum turbo lynch Thespio.

That looks very much like Thespio knows NS is going to flip scum and is trying to tie me to the scum flip.

[Thespio]

What? I'm now scum with NS?

We should turbo lynch NS and when he flips scum turbo lynch Thespio.

That looks very much like Thespio knows NS is going to flip scum and is trying to tie me to the scum flip.

I honestly don't want to lynch NS, there are better lynches right now. The issue is I think ive talked myself off of NS and partially off bulba. I don't suspect Aku or Micc, BBT I hate you because you are a replacement, While i respect your reads and the fact you went over everything i lean town, the lack off substance behind wanting people lynched concerns me. You want me to hammer and end the day over a week early because you want to lynch scum, but the longer the day is the more we get to see people post, and the better we can read each other. Which throws me a little... Plus you immediately linked me to NS, even though I was the first to show suspicion towards him and honestly if we were scum buddies its much more likely that we would avoid each other not buddy. HCL seems town, Joram seems super newbie but town. So right now im sitting at:

Bulba>BBT>NS>Joram>Aku/Micc/Hcl

I wont try to justify all of my behavior, because this is my second game on this site and im playing 3 others from alternate sites, so as I learn im going to be erratic. I would rather have NL though at this point, Im not sure enough to support a lynch, just because its risking a Miss-lynch, Which would change the outcome in favor of scum:

Alive: 8

Scum-Alive: 2

Town-Alive: 6

Today's Outcome:

Miss-Lynch:

Alive: 7

Scum-Alive: 2

Town-Alive: 5

Scum-Lynch:

Alive: 7

Scum-Alive: 1

Town-Alive: 6

No-Lynch:

Alive: 8

Scum-Alive: 2

Town-Alive: 6

After Night:

If Miss-Lynch Day Before:

Alive: 6

Scum-Alive: 2

Town-Alive: 4

If Scum-Lynch Day Before:

Alive: 6

Scum-Alive: 1

Town-Alive: 5

No-Lynch:

Alive: 7

Scum-Alive: 2

Town-Alive: 5

Outcome:

Miss-Lynch:

Pro's: Increased Chance of lynching Scum

Con's: We arent all really on the same page so I feel like it will result in another miss-lynch which leaves us in LYLO. If BBT was appealing to Joram then joram will swing with him and town will lose (Assuming BBT is scum). Which explains why he is trying to link me to NS. I still want to see what BBT though NS was trying to do.

Scum-Lynch:

Pro's: 1 less Scum, pushes LYLO back, overall good

Con's: decreases accuracy of next lynch but we are likely to read people better based off of the lynch.

No Lynch:

Pro's: Increased accuracy after NK, Lylo isnt brought forward, overall neutral outcome.

Con's: We aren't receiving benefits from Scum-Lynch.

Overall I would rather have a no lynch then a rushed lynch that becomes a miss-lynch like yesterday. However I think if we are all reading bulba as scum and even bulba sees his actions as scummy we should be looking at him. BBT, I'm waiting for Aku and Micc to get done reading over you, because Stubbs definitely played as scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I honestly don't want to lynch NS, there are better lynches right now. The issue is I think ive talked myself off of NS and partially off bulba. I don't suspect Aku or Micc, BBT I hate you because you are a replacement, While i respect your reads and the fact you went over everything i lean town, the lack off substance behind wanting people lynched concerns me.

First, is this you saying you have no scum reads?

Second, are you saying you're town reading me but want to lynch me because I haven't explained something to your satisfaction? (even though I collected all my thoughts on NS and put them together in one post for you to read. I don't believe you responded to it either).

You want me to hammer and end the day over a week early because you want to lynch scum. Plus you immediately linked me to NS, even though I was the first to show suspicion towards him and honestly if we were scum buddies its much more likely that we would avoid each other not buddy. HCL seems town, Joram seems super newbie but town.

Right, I can be pushy, it nets results. It puts people under pressure and they make mistakes.

I was pushing because I believe both you and NS to be scum (independent of each other) and I noticed you voting/unvoting NS quite a bit throughout the game. Now that it was crunch time for your vote, I wanted to see if you would still vote NS. You wouldn't.

I haven't said you're buddying NS, I said you're buddying Micc (which you're still yet to respond to). Also, it's not uncommon for scum to throw suspicion on their scum buddy when they're under 0 pressure. It's when the voting matters that you really find out where people stand.

Bulba>BBT>NS>Joram>Aku/Micc/Hcl

OK, I was wrong. You're not town reading me. I would lynch Bulba and NS from your top 3 choices. I'm not touching anyone outside of NS/Bulba/you Today.

Overall I would rather have a no lynch then a rushed lynch that becomes a miss-lynch like yesterday. However I think if we are all reading bulba as scum and even bulba sees his actions as scummy we should be looking at him. BBT, I'm waiting for Aku and Micc to get done reading over you, because Stubbs definitely played as scum.

We're not no lynching, that is bad for town.

I agree, we should be looking at Bulba. That is a lynch that interests me, though I suspect we have different reasons as the reason you stated makes me think he could be town.

[Thespio]

I honestly don't want to lynch NS, there are better lynches right now. The issue is I think ive talked myself off of NS and partially off bulba. I don't suspect Aku or Micc, BBT I hate you because you are a replacement, While i respect your reads and the fact you went over everything i lean town, the lack off substance behind wanting people lynched concerns me.

First, is this you saying you have no scum reads?

No im saying none of them are so strong that im willing to kill them this early in the day.

Second, are you saying you're town reading me but want to lynch me because I haven't explained something to your satisfaction? (even though I collected all my thoughts on NS and put them together in one post for you to read. I don't believe you responded to it either).

You want me to hammer and end the day over a week early because you want to lynch scum. Plus you immediately linked me to NS, even though I was the first to show suspicion towards him and honestly if we were scum buddies its much more likely that we would avoid each other not buddy. HCL seems town, Joram seems super newbie but town.

Right, I can be pushy, it nets results. It puts people under pressure and they make mistakes.

Well stop it, I'm not voting him, I agree he has alot to explain but i believe there are better lynches.

I was pushing because I believe both you and NS to be scum (independent of each other) and I noticed you voting/unvoting NS quite a bit throughout the game. Now that it was crunch time for your vote, I wanted to see if you would still vote NS. You wouldn't.

I haven't said you're buddying NS, I said you're buddying Micc (which you're still yet to respond to). Also, it's not uncommon for scum to throw suspicion on their scum buddy when they're under 0 pressure. It's when the voting matters that you really find out where people stand.

Bulba>BBT>NS>Joram>Aku/Micc/Hcl

OK, I was wrong. You're not town reading me. I would lynch Bulba and NS from your top 3 choices. I'm not touching anyone outside of NS/Bulba/you Today.

Overall I would rather have a no lynch then a rushed lynch that becomes a miss-lynch like yesterday. However I think if we are all reading bulba as scum and even bulba sees his actions as scummy we should be looking at him. BBT, I'm waiting for Aku and Micc to get done reading over you, because Stubbs definitely played as scum.

We're not no lynching, that is bad for town.

I agree, we should be looking at Bulba. That is a lynch that interests me, though I suspect we have different reasons as the reason you stated makes me think he could be town.

I think him admitting it is odd, and makes me shift a little town, my hope was that you would have done the same to stubbs. I get you didnt see the purpose. The reason im suspicious of bulba because Veegee was kinda scummy before he got replaced, then bulba pushed a quick lynch on Stoz without a whole lot of provocation. During which he insisted that Joram was Town but still voted him, and it wasn't when we were on a time crunch either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ugh, I kind of want to town read you just because you're here and willing to work with me.

I don't know if that's because nobody else is posting and I want someone to share thoughts with or if it's because I think we can compromise on Bulba and I don't see you bussing your buddy in that scenario.

But if Bulba flipped town I would feel really stupid for not lynching one of you/NS when it would be obvious that this is the route you would take as scum to protect your buddy and take attention away from your voting patterns.

I need help from someone. Can people start posting please?

[Bulbazoor]

What is the read on me? I bet if I was on here talking it woul not change anything, but everyone is so willing to compromise on anyone else....

I still see problems in BBT. If you read me scum, why do you have doubts on me? Were you not sure on your read on me a few minutes ago? THespio, IS PUSHING A SCUMREAD ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE?!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Did you read my catch up? All the reasons are in there.

Is this you coming to talk in an attempt to try and change my read?

[Bulbazoor]

no. You can read me however you want, but my vote willl stay because I am sure ns is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is 601 still your only reasoning for scum reading NS? Because I find it weak.