Newbie 1625: American Spring - Day 5 (DL - 08/31)

[Micc]

and I lost all context for those quotes...

the post is HCL's post 619 which as far as I could tell is the most recent version of him explaining his NS scumread.

sidenote: post tags work best if you do them like this:

Code: Select all

[post=500]This is the text that links to post 500[/post]

This is the text that links to post 500

[HenryCabotLodge]

Whats the difference between NS identifying 3 scum reads and voting the strongest wagon (which you seem to scum read him for) and BBT identifying 3 scum reads and voting the strongest wagon (which you seem ok with)?

Is activity playing a part of your NS read?

Do you see making an early stance in RVS in order to get the game moving as a bad action for town to take? Do you really think that scum-NS would come into the thread and expect to power lynch a player in a few pages and win like that?

Do you undrstand how answering the same question over and over might be annoying? Can you explain what scum NS has to gain from being coy and hard to work with?

Whats telling about putting more effort into justifying a Joram town read than a Stoz town read. He was voting Stoz at the time so I don't get what stands out as weird.

Hopefully we can get through this and either I'll feel good enough to finally support a NS lynch, or youll have swung over to Bulbazoor.

1. I think there's more of a basis for BBT's vote on notscience than there was for notscience's vote on Stoz. I understand it was day 1 and by definition there's not much to go by, but notscience's read on Stoz seemed to be based solely on activity which I don't care for. Also the manner that he kept pushing it without offering much elaboration on why he scumread him, especially when there were viable competing wagons at play (namely Joram). Moreover, being that it's day 2 and there's more to go by, I think it's more plausible for a player to legitimately scumread three players (with good reason) and be fine with a lynch on any of them than for day 1.

2. Activity is playing a part, but only in the sense that notscience's level of activity and manner of posting underwent a change towards the beginning of day 1 after a strong start. I interpret it as him being satisfied with the persona he established and attempting to merely maintain a vague presence for the rest of the day while not arousing much suspicion to himself.

3. Spurring activity isn't bad. The problem I had was that he implied he was actually willing to lynch VeeGee based off that first post. He even supported it with some kind of meta-argument about how he caught scum in the RVS in another game. I found it reckless and I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility for him to have tried to manipulate some of the more inexperienced players into a quicklynch.

4. Oh certainly I can. I didn't see him being forthright with good answers though which sort lessens my sympathy for him in that situation. I saw the way he played it as a weird intimidation tactic. Taking a position of disdain and condescension in order to legitimize himself over the questioner.

5. I mistyped in that instance, I meant a Stoz scum read. Yea he was voting Stoz so he should have been explaining why he had the vote on Stoz. He was actively trying to win people over to the Stoz without elaborating on exactly

why

he was scummy. The reality was there wasn't much to get Stoz on, other than his fascile reads post and lurking. Joram was a proven liar at this point and under a huge amount of pressure. The fact that his defense of Joram took more effort than his condemnation of Stoz stuck out as strange to me. I'd think you'd be more adamant about lynching your top scum suspect and correspondingly provide reasons for it rather than spend your energy defending somebody who is that questionable.

I think the most damning thing for notscience is Stoz's flip and the fact that he was the prime mover behind the lynch, but did so in a very diffident and aloof way. There's just a lot of things that struck me as strange about his play (which I hope I've clarified a bit for you above) and I'm comfortable with his lynch. I am willing to take a closer look at bulba, but I'm about to sleep and that will have to wait for tomorrow.

[JoramvanVugt]

Thespio idk what you are doing, in some posts you are against a lynch on NS but in other posts you call him scum again. i like what BBT said, Thespio is trying to get everyone to think BBT and NS are both scum so nobody is gonna look at him. I still think Thespio you are scum. right now maybe even more important then NS.

[Thespio]

Thespio idk what you are doing, in some posts you are against a lynch on NS but in other posts you call him scum again. i like what BBT said, Thespio is trying to get everyone to think BBT and NS are both scum so nobody is gonna look at him. I still think Thespio you are scum. right now maybe even more important then NS.

Im sorry im not following this logic^ you are still cross about the fact that I voted for you, up until then you had no issues with me then you flipped against me. Explain why we shouldnt have lynched you? you decieved us, then raged at us when we pointed it out, you deflected, and then when you were being voted you constantly shifted your vote with the intention to lynch someone else first.

[JoramvanVugt]

Stoz got lynched but my vote was not on him. I am not voting you because you voted me, thats what you keep making of it. you keep trying to find excused as to why people vote you/find you suspicious. maybe you should look. You say i shift votes? you are doing exactly the same. Last day you wanted NS to be lynched, today you refuse to vote him and try to get attention of the fact you arent voting him. NS will probably turn out scum. if he does you die next, if he doesnt you will probably still die next

[Thespio]

Stoz got lynched but my vote was not on him.

Neither was mine?

I am not voting you because you voted me, that's what you keep making of it. you keep trying to find excused as to why people vote you/find you suspicious. maybe you should look.

Just no, you don't give reasons you just state, and usually its an assertion, like this point. I'm also not finding excuses for anything, I have little reason to do so, your whole basis for thinking im scum was because i drilled you about lying.

You say i shift votes? you are doing exactly the same. Last day you wanted NS to be lynched, today you refuse to vote him and try to get attention of the fact you aren't voting him. NS will probably turn out scum. if he does you die next, if he doesnt you will probably still die next

The difference is that you were doing it when you were under pressure, however when you weren't you hardly posted which comes across as scum.

[Micc]

Im surprisingly ok with most of that from HCL. I still think the RVS stuff and intimidation tactics are off base but I can see where it comes from. At this point Im not really confident enough to make a big fuss about arguing.

I just don't like sitting here and watching a lynch go through that I dont feel good about.

[Micc]

Actually this will probably stalemate at 4v4.

I feel a lot better voting with Thespio and NS than BBT and Bulba. Akuseru and HCL pretty much being a wash. Joram is ehh.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Micc, you have no reevaluated my slot at all? You're just going to stick with your prelim read on my predecessor?

What do you mean by Aku/Henry being a wash?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I just don't like sitting here and watching a lynch go through that I dont feel good about.

No-one is making you do this; you have the power to suggest a different wagon and propose your reasons for why you think said wagon is better.

I'll wait for you to do that.

[Micc]

I addressed your catch up and asked you questions that you didn't bother to answer. Not sure what more you want from me?

I feel equally good about being on a wagon on them.

Ive stated over and over again that I think you or bulbazoor are better lynches. Short of spamming the thread with posts Im not sure what you expect. Its pretty clear by now that neither you, Bulba, or Joram is willing to consider another wagon today. In the case of you and bulba I think its pretty telling.

[JoramvanVugt]

Micc im okay with another wagon, as long as it is someone i scumread, Thespio or NS.

I wouldnt mind changing my vote from NS to Thespio but i wont vote for Bulba or BBT

[Micc]

Then I guess i have to find the time to go back and try to understand those reads because right now I think you're way off base.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@BBT, why am I off the scum list despite numerous mentioned scum tells in you catch up?

Also, How much of the overall Thespio scum read is because of NS interactions and how much is Thespio on his own?

This is it? These are the only questions I can find...

You're off the scum list because I like some of your posting. You're off the scum list because there are much better people to lynch than you.

A lot of the Thespio scum read is independent of anyone else.

Now, what was the point of those questions and how was it supposed to help you determine my alignment? Because, as far as I can see, you're simply vote parking on me whilst stating 'Stubbs was scummy' or 'BBT is scum' (or variants of these comments) over and over.

I want a case from you for why I'm scum so that I have something to respond to.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ive stated over and over again that I think you or bulbazoor are better lynches. Short of spamming the thread with posts Im not sure what you expect.

I expect you to tell me WHY they are better lynches; not simply state it like it's fact.

[Micc]

Yes those are it and yes they are relevant.

Im trying to figure out how you're deciding that Thespio/NS are better candidates than other players you've mentioned scum tells on.

You and i both know that replacing into a game reading it and firing off opinions is easy to do as scum. Its the translating of those accusations into reads and eventually votes that im interested in. At first your vote was on NS because scum read and leading wagon. I was ok with that. Now it feels like you want NS today and refuse to consider moving from that.

I think thats scummy. Bulba is doing the same thing except his reasons for being on NS are worse and he's even more closed minded about moving. Thats why im on bulba right now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, except I have explicitly stated that if we can get a Bulba or Thespio wagon going I would be interested sooo....

I didn't say Thespio was better than anyone else...I said he was my strongest scum read. I would just as happily lynch Thespio/Bulba as I would NS, I really don't care which order we do it in.

[Micc]

Cool. Now look back at the votecount, tally up votes that have been made since, predict where players currently off the leading wagons will vote...

...and get on the stronger wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No thanks, I'm happy on the NS wagon.

If Bulba/Thespio picks up steam, count me in.

[Micc]

Ok. Ill draw the line. Its either NS or Bulbazoor today.

@Notscience and Thespio:
Pick a wagon. We should have Bulba at L-1 or one of you stating intent to hammer NS in the next 24 hours.

If it gets to 4v4 i fully expect BBT to move to Bulba.

[Thespio]

@Micc, Im for lynchin bulba, Ive expressed this.
VOTE: Bulba

[Micc]

I know that. BBT apparently doesn't.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can see people will vote other people.

Saying and doing are two very different things.

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 27

Unsocial Networking

notscience

(4): HenryCabotLodge, JoramvanVugt, Bulbazoor, BlueBloodedToffee

Bulbazoor

(3): Akuseru, Micc, Thespio

Not Voting

(1): notscience

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: August 5, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-08-04 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

notscience is v/la until July 31
-

[Micc]

Just don't let what you're saying become what you're not doing.

There's the votecount. You're the difference right now and I think its pretty clear where notscience will end up.