Mini 1697 - a Re-balanced Game of Mafia - GAME OVER

[Persivul]

It's very common to say that a hammer is scummy, then as deadline nears to accept a hammer. Happens all the time, which makes the charge reaching.

[ActionDan]

Official Vote Count

Persivul

(3): pistachi0n, RadiantCowbells, Ankamius

Thesp

(3): All Alone, Persivul, davesaz

All Alone

(1): Alchemist21

Alchemist21

(2): Thesp, TheDominator37

Not Voting

(2): Netherspite, duppin

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-08-10 18:30:00)

I'll try to analyze and stuff. I hate being the guy to drop out
VOTE: alc

Votecounter processed this incorrectly as pistachi0n. Please use 'alchemist' in the future

I've been terrible with upkeep, I realize

[pistachi0n]

It's very common to say that a hammer is scummy, then as deadline nears to accept a hammer. Happens all the time, which makes the charge reaching.

I know. It's not the main reason I'm scum-reading you. But it's still something I've noted.

@ActionDan, your vote counts aren't posting properly, it just says "vc"

Ya, I hadn't updated them; I apologize for you guys not having a proper votecount for around 6 days

[Persivul]

The vc is just a placeholder. He'll fill in the votes later.

[duppin]

Okay so I agree with Persivul, we should definitely look at the eventi train.
While it is definitely possible mafia did not vote on him, I sincerely doubt that is the case. So I'd expect at least one mafia to be on that train.

This was the train:

Netherspite, Pistachi0n, TheDominator, davesaz, duppin, Thesp, Persivul.

I am obviously not going to talk about myself.

I see no reason to spam you guys with a wall of text, so I will just start with Nether. I have some questions for him as well that I'd like him to answer (will post them at the end of this post)

Netherspite:

Terrible voting record.

Day 1:
-#16: RVS vote on Firebringer (confirmed town.)
-#29: Vote on TheDominator (leaning town)
-#111: Puts his vote back on Firebringer.
-#172: Changes his vote to eventi (confirmed town).

Day 2:

-#636: Vote on TheDominator.

So he has been voting on three people, two are confirmed townies and the last one is probably town as well.
Apparently he does not have a single scum read on anyone today (except TheDominator).

He did scumread two other players though.

-#134: Calls RC's wagon scumdriven. RC's wagon was: Alchemist21, Firebringer (confirmed town), Quaroath/Ankamius, eventi(confirmed town)
-#136: Later clarifies that he believes that Firebringer is scum, and says that he finds Quaraoth/Ankamius and eventi scummy.


-#572: Scumreading Persivul?
I never quote understood this, but it sounded to me like he was scumreading Persivul based on a meta read.
Surprised to see you not mentioning this today at all.

He also aligned himself with several players.

-#83: Called it a TvT between RC and Alchemist. (He aligned himself with RC throughout the whole day).

Alright this is basically what he did day 1. But there are several posts I find questionable.
-#507:
If Eventi flips town, he will look for scum among All Alone, Thesp, TheDominator and RC.
Eventi flipped town, yet he is townreading All Alone and RC today.
I guess that means he want to look at Thesp and TheDominator. (He voted on day 2, so it is consistent)

However:

-#253: Says TheDominator is obvious scum since the beginning, so he'd rather look for more obscure scum.

Why would you not rather push Thesp than TheDominator? I think we can all agree Thesp is a bigger threat at this point.
When I tried to ask you for your scumreads earlier you never mentioned Thesp (you gave a townread on All Alone and RC which I can accept), but you ignored the fourth person you said you would.
That was very interesting.

-#366: Can see a scumteam of TheDominator, Firebringer and eventi.

To be honest I don't mind this post that much, just thought it was an interesting team.

-#457: Calls Firebringer and eventi scum.
Why would he NK his scum read? I mean it could be to casue confusion, or perhaps because the mafia thought he was a tpr. (Or to avoid a doctor save I guess, but meh)

-#524: "Also, caring much about your own survival as town is stupid. You can lose even if you survive. You can win even if you don't survive. Your goal is make town catching the scum. If your flip will help that - you should be fine with your lynch.
I am always fine with my lynch if it contributes important information to the town."
-#527: Would prefer his own lynch over TheDominator because it will provide more information to the town.

I don't think this is a particularly scummy statement, but it is very interesting.

Questions.

1: You claimed the train on RC day 1 was scumdriven. (Alchemist, FireBringer, Quaroath/Ankamius and eventi).
Two of them are confirmed town and you townread Alchemist. What do you think about the train now?

2: You stated that if eventi flips town, you'll look for scum among All Alone, Thesp, TheDominator and RC.
When I questioned you earlier about your scum reads you only wanted to go for TheDominator though. You are town reading All Alone and RC.
Why are you not going for Thesp then? What is your read on him?

3: I'd also like to know your read on All Alone. You town reading him all of a sudden was a bit of a surprise to me (based on your previous statement.

4: You were scumreading Persivul day 1, correct? The impression I got from you is that you are afraid of him just sliding by as mafia.
How and why exactly did you town read him today then? If you fear him so much it seems a bit weird.

Sorry for the wall of text.

[duppin]

Um so yeah, I just realised Nether is V/LA. Oh well, might as well just go for pistachi0n then.
Voting record:

Day 1:
-#31: RVS on duppin
-#399: Vote on eventi

Day 2:
-#697: Vote on Persivul

Not very interesting. Can't really blame her for her voting record. Several townies voted on eventi obviously. It is possible Persivul is scum, so can't really comment on that vote.

So this is what troubles me a little. She has not been very active this game, so there is not much to go on. This means I am having a hard time getting a read on her (at least with the flips we've seen so far).
If this game is nothing but TvT, I'd say she is very scummy, but seeing as we do not know that I don't think that is the case. I do like some of what she has done so far.

She did do one thing that bothered me, but I have already asked her about that. I asked her d2 about her read on Thesp today, simply because of this:

-#103: Town reads Thesp. Not a big fan of the reason for the townread though. Thinks RC and Alchemist is TvT.
-#140: Responds to All Alone's question (questioning her townread on Thesp). Says she is still townreading Thesp.
She didn't not explain why though.
-#397: Says she is townreading Thesp. I found this very interesting because she did not mention him in #338.

Overall it was obvious that she had a pretty strong town read on Thesp.

-#427: If eventi flips town, she will be more suspicious of Thesp.

This was honestly the only thing I had written next to her name after d1. (Stating that she would find her town read scummy if eventi flipped town).
However she chose not to mention Thesp at all (instead she focused on Persivul, which is okay, but she did not vote on him at first so if she didn't intend to tunnel I don't see why she wouldn't mention him but oh well.)
So I asked her about her read on Thesp and she answered.

-#697: This is the answer. Basically she says she has a weak scum read on Thesp. If she is scumreading her, I really do not like the fact that she chose not to bring that up earlier. She did however state that she would wait for him to catch up with the thread, so that could explain why.

She townread several people day 1 though (I am not including Thesp this time):

-#263: Townreads Nether. Says that if Dom flips town Nether will be looking more towny. Not entirely sure I agree though.
-#338: Alchemist is her strongest town read. She is still townreading Nether at this point and has RC pegged as town as well.

Day 1 she was only pushing on TheDominator (leaning town) and eventi (confirmed town). Can't really blame her though, but it is interesting for multiple reasons.

-#264: Explains that she was town reading eventi early but is scum reading him now. Very interesting considering the pressure was going this way.
-#338: Scumreading eventi and TheDominator.

The timing of the eventi scumread was a bit weird, considering multiple people (well, me and Thesp) called him scummy just before this. I can't help but wonder what would've happened if we hadn't anything.

-#631: Calls Persivul scummy. First time she mentions him all game though.
Would've prefered if she had brought this up d1 (the stuff about the meta read), but meh. I like the push, although I am not entirely sure I agree with the read. (I don't think securing a lynch is scummy).

So as previously mentioned, pistachi0n could be scum. I could see her being aligned with Thesp, but she would not have to be. She is definitely a question mark.
She has not really done anything super scummy so far, but she could definitely be a lurking mafia. (Especially if this game is a TvT party).
I did not like #264. I am actually curious if I am the only one who finds the timing a bit strange (now that we know eventi was town).
I do like the fact that she is pushing on Persivul today though.

I only have two questions, and depending on your answer I probably have a follow up to both of them.

Questions.

1: What is your read on Thesp now? In #697 (your reply to me) you implied you would revaluate him when he caught up with the thread, which he has now.

2: What do you think about davesaz?

[Persivul]

So this is what troubles me a little. She has not been very active this game, so there is not much to go on.

Low activity isn't indicative of alignment for her. In one game she was scum and used it to her advantage. In another I was scum and used it to my advantage.

[duppin]

So this is what troubles me a little. She has not been very active this game, so there is not much to go on.

Low activity isn't indicative of alignment for her. In one game she was scum and used it to her advantage. In another I was scum and used it to my advantage.

I am not saying it is. I am saying it makes it difficult for me to get a read on her.

[TheDominator37]

V/LA

for another 2 days. Sorry for my inactivity

[TheDominator37]

Alc wagon not going anywhere so I'll vote my #2
VOTE: thesp

L-2!

[TheDominator37]

V/LA

for two days tag didn't work

[All Alone]

prod dodge

[Thesp]

Drat and bebother these dwarves!

Can you give me some context to this quote? I don't understand what you're saying.

---

Would it have been better for Persivul not to hammer, and us no-lynch yesterday?

No, I'm very glad someone hammered. I'm just noting that it came from the same person who said a hammer would be a scum claim.

Eh, I think the time difference is important - and he said "I'm taking an eventi hammer as a scum claim at this point.". There are plenty of things to think Persivul is weird about, but this isn't one of them.

---

So this is what troubles me a little. She has not been very active this game, so there is not much to go on.

Low activity isn't indicative of alignment for her. In one game she was scum and used it to her advantage. In another I was scum and used it to my advantage.

I'm not quite understanding - in both of these examples, is pistachi0n the one with the low activity?

---

I'm going to try to catch up to this weekend's events today, particularly since later this week will be a bit sketchy for me (daughter will be in the hospital, minor procedure, but some life upheaval nonetheless). I strongly disagree with any characterization of my activity as "superficial", davesaz. I also don't think my case on Alchemist21 is "reaching", and don't see how he's "obviously town" by any stretch of the imagination. I'd love for everyone voting me to give their opinions on Alchemist21 (and I note that Persivul has weakly, as has TheDominator37 to some extent).

[Persivul]

I'm not quite understanding - in both of these examples, is pistachi0n the one with the low activity?

Yes.

[ActionDan]

prods sent to davesaz and alchemist21

[RadiantCowbells]

Can you give me some context to this quote? I don't understand what you're saying.

Anyway, this game continues to give me the feeling that most of the high activity players are scum.

VOTE: Davesaz

Let's see where this goes.

[RadiantCowbells]

btw, Thesp wagon is terrible.

[Alchemist21]

RC, I still don't know if you mean to be voting Persivul or Duppin.

[Alchemist21]

Nvm, missed your vote change to Dave. My bad.

[Alchemist21]

@Thesp, what is your case on me beyond the non-existant contradiction?

[TheDominator37]

Omg alc is lurking now
I'm 90% sure he is mafia

[Alchemist21]

You haven't given a case on me either beyond the results of your supposed gambit.

[RadiantCowbells]

And yes, I meant to be voting Persy.

Duppin's logic sucked but I don't scumread him at all for it.

I do not like at all how Persy kept fishing for a claim from Duppin.

But I really wanna wagon Daves or Pistachi0n right now.

[Persivul]

Anyway, this game continues to give me the feeling that most of the high activity players are scum.

And then you voted one of the lowest activity players. Kinda like referring to things duppin said and voting me. Is this your new thing?

[Alchemist21]

And yes, I meant to be voting Persy.

Duppin's logic sucked but I don't scumread him at all for it.

I do not like at all how Persy kept fishing for a claim from Duppin.

But I really wanna wagon Daves or Pistachi0n right now.

Why do you want Dave or Pistachion wagons?