Open 604 - Fire and Ice - Fire mafia wins!

[hayatoBL]

I'm making my participation in this game formally valid.

[hayatoBL]

Hey everone. Let's have a fun and interesting game together!

VOTE: Firebringer

Fire can cause damage to the skin or other body parts and therefore scum.

[hayatoBL]

Prepare for some nonsense.

Ika, I have 3 page 1 scum reads and 1 town read. This never happens. You?

scum 2 found

I thought you found 3 scum yourself?

....How would she know?

I dislike this serious question to Klick's joke-question.

I am here. This RVS thing confuses me: I haven't seen this sort of thing before. Someone mind explaining the point to me?

You have played in another finished game where people were RVS-ing from the start. Can you tell me why you're pretending to not having see the RVS thing?

VOTE: TheCow

I am mad at the votes on me though, I think I will hold off voting for awhile (anti town ftw!) until someone leaps out or just hope the ice and fire attack each other.

For what reason are you mad at the votes on you? They are RVS-votes.

I won't oppose a policy lynch on ika or gameplay. Though, it's early, so I'm expecting their play to improve eventually.

[hayatoBL]

Ika, I have 3 page 1 scum reads and 1 town read. This never happens. You?

scum 2 found

....How would she know?

Also the penguin is a scum tell

I am here. This RVS thing confuses me: I haven't seen this sort of thing before. Someone mind explaining the point to me?

I am mad at the votes on me though, I think I will hold off voting for awhile (anti town ftw!) until someone leaps out or just hope the ice and fire attack each other.

FireBringer: You've ignored a question of mine.

[hayatoBL]

^ Ignore all those quotes.

[hayatoBL]

Tatsuya: You should consider replacing out, you know? I have nothing against you personally, but to burden your fellow Townies (assumption made here) to read a slot that would be empty for a whole week is too much don't you think? It's a different story, if this is D2 or later, when we have some reads on your slot to work on.

The Mod seems to have accepted your request, so feel free to do as you wish.

[hayatoBL]

^ Seems reasonable to assume it wouldn't start so soon. This made me worry a little less.

[hayatoBL]

I like Radja's vote but like my vote more.

[hayatoBL]

This game is fun.

[hayatoBL]

Well, I still have a couple of unanswered questions and they are there to solidify or change my early reads. I prefer not to reveal my thoughts until those questions were answered. But I can reveal *some* of my thoughts.

My question on FireBringer was to get him to explain why he was mad at being RVS-voted. It's strange that one becomes mad by getting votes during RVS. It felt like a fake display of emotion, which is scummy.

My asking Tatsuya to replace out was to gauge whether he was V/LA-ing as a scum tactic or he was genuinely busy. Because it's strange that one would V/LA the whole week, when the game just begun. I mean, why sign up for the game in the first place, if you're going to be busy? So, I thought if he took my advice and replace out, then I could probably town-read that slot or if he chose not to replace out, he'll shift to scum-pool.

BUT his stated reasoning made me worry a little less, because this game did started quite early than it normally would. He expected the game to start after the exam which seems reasonable to me. At least, I'm not shifting him to scum-pool because of it.

As to my other thoughts, I would like the questions answered first.

[hayatoBL]

Well, I didn't read it as a troll response at that time. Because the post before that was obvious troll response, which made that one seems like a serious one. But now that you've mentioned it...

Probably a failed investigation there....heheh

As of my reads. I don't know. Probably I'll null that.

[hayatoBL]

That was a Vengeance game, this is a "normal" game. Of course they would be played differently, and seeing that this is my first more "normal" game -- a second informed minority aside -- I see no problem with my questions. Of course, that would be the case if that were actually my reason for asking, which it is not.

I appreciate your response, but I don't think this is a valid response to the issue I have on you.

To rephrase my issue I have on you:

1. In the *previous* game you played, the game started with an RVS just like this one.

2. You came into *this* game claiming you never seen it, which is a LIE.

Your defense only proves that this game and the previous game you've played have different *setup*. That game has vengeful townies. This game is a multiball. But what of it? Both games still started with random voting.

If you can't answer this in a way which could address my issues, then don't. I've caught you lying with evidence, so I understand that there's no way for you to disprove it.

However, I am open to the possibility that you can prove me wrong, so please do if you can.

[hayatoBL]

Haya's giving me the skeevies right now.

Time to elaborate, no?

Still not seeing it.

Why? What's your read on Tatsuya?

[hayatoBL]

This is his town game, pretty sure. Been a long while, so the memory is a bit fuzzy.

I don't think we've ever played together. Probably someone else.

[hayatoBL]

TheCow: Do you have any reason at all to believe that your ideal scenario is more likely to happen than the other presented scenarios?

Because if you don't have any reason, it shows that you don't really care about the outcome of the plan. What I think you really care is, that you have the oppurtunity to initiate said plan and the oppurtunity to explain to us, hoping to score some town-cred for trying to "sacrifice yourself for Town".

I can tell you right now, that your worse case scenario is more likely to happen than the rest of the scenarios simply because we have more Townies than scums and also because scums are also hunting for mafia from the other faction. There's no reason for anyone not to act immediately.

This plan is poorly made, not well-thought off and I think it was meant to show how you're ready to sacrifice yourself for Town. An attempt to gain town-cred and saved by the doc Night 1.

Someone has asked your reads, which (I think) you haven't responded to.

[hayatoBL]

Radja: I would like you to rephrase my case on TheCow in a way you understood it and tell me what about it you disagree. Twice you expressed disagreement with his lynch without mentioning any specifics you actually disagree with.

Bella: Then, what about 101? I don't see any agressive plays there.

[hayatoBL]

Klick and Bella could be town.

Though, I think it is less likely for scum not to take the advantage of this game being a multiball and go hunt for scum, earning town cred and winning the doc's favour. Which forces me to tone down my town-read on the both of them.

My previous comment on Radja is probably prematurely made. He did made one comment on it. But seeing as he is the only one who oppose TheCow wagon, I would like for him to do it anyway.

I'll admit to not having analyse the talk between Klick, gameplay and Fire recently.

[hayatoBL]

prod-dodge. Will post later as I'm busy. sorry guys

[hayatoBL]

Another proddodge-ish post as I'm really not in the mood.

I didn't read the last page but I probably still want a TheCow lynch.

TheCow's reads list(which I find decent enough) made me question, why he said he is a weak town-player and be better off shot at Night 1.

A post of yours suggests that you played mafia in a different site. I would link a link to one of your games in that site, if that is the case.

I'll put my thoughts out about other players next time.

[hayatoBL]

'you' and 'yours' are TheCow and TheCow's respectively.

[hayatoBL]

^ok let me know what you need.

[hayatoBL]

http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=17

I've looked through a couple of your comments in that site and I don't buy it. Sure, some players think they are below-average. But to make a plan in order to get yourself killed N1 because of it? Nah. I don't buy it. I don't see you as someone who would think and do that. Not from what I saw in your games there.

Add to the fact that the plan was a poor one, with weak(or no) reasoning to believe the worse case scenario isn't the most likely scenario, it's going to be difficult for me to see you in a town-light.

As for Town acting on it, I suppose the meta here is

better

different, as Town would normally not jump on that where I usually play.

I don't buy this. Why wouldn't Town at that site not jump on it? If you have no logical reason for this and was only talking about statistics, then my question turns to: Are you saying that there are alot of(or enough) occurences, where a player faked being a newbie for you to say 'Town wouldn't normally jump on it' ?

[hayatoBL]

Sorry guys. Been neglecting this game too much. And when I'm not neglecting it, I'm overly focused on TheCow.

I think, being town-read by multiple people and having a strong-ish scum read on TheCow made me a little lazy.

TheCow : If you're town, sorry for constantly annoying you. But next time just focus on catching scum during the Day and not trying to manipulate the outcome of the Night actions. Though I can think of more questions, but I don't think I'm able to change my read on you.

And I don't think my effort would sway anyone to get more votes on TheCow. I'll probably will put one last effort, but I don't know.

I'll probably read something else and try to form another opinion, which I'm clearly lacking. I did read, but nothing really sticks. I remember thinking gameplay's suspicion on Mist was justified, not that I agree that Mist is scum for it. I just think his suspicion was reasonable.

Anyone wants me to comment on anything specific?

Also, welcome wanderer! lol

[hayatoBL]

Unofficial vote count. sharing this since I did the count for my own use:

Mist7676

(3) - Gameplay506, Radja, firebringer

ConManMick

(1) - Pisskop

TheCow

(2) - hayotoBL, Bella

Ika

(1) - ConManMick

Swordmaster

(1) - ika

Prolapsed Brain

(2) - TheCow, Klick

Gameplay

(1) - Mist7676

not voting

-
Wanderer
Prolapsed brain

[hayatoBL]

who the hell is swordmaster?

Corrected.

Unofficial vote count. sharing this since I did the count for my own use:

Mist7676

(3) - Gameplay506, Radja, firebringer

ConManMick

(1) - Pisskop

TheCow

(2) - hayotoBL, Bella

Ika

(1) - ConManMick

pisskop

(1) - ika

Prolapsed Brain

(2) - TheCow, Klick

Gameplay

(1) - Mist7676

not voting

-
Wanderer
Prolapsed brain

[hayatoBL]

meta case is explainable, so explain it.

Even if it isn't, there's no way you can get 7 votes on an unexplainable meta case, so what's the point?

[hayatoBL]

When are we going to lynch him?

When we don't have any scum read. When we town-read all the actives.

Why lynch a null, when you can lynch one of your scum-read? A null can 'easily be scum', but a scum-read has a higher chance of flipping scum than 'can easily be scum' and therefore always the better lynch. And we always want a better lynch.

[hayatoBL]

pisskop: why is TheCow your alternative wagon and why do you want to lynch a lurker over that?

[hayatoBL]

Hayato might be a good option? Trying so much not to take a stance on a lot it seems, could be scum trying to avoid lynching today.

I don't take stance when I don't have a strong read and I don't think it's unreasonable to have so little stance in this game.

[hayatoBL]

^ I'll admit that I'm lazy because I'm being town-read by multiple player. If I was pressured, I'll most probably be more diligent, though not necessarily make more stances.

[hayatoBL]

^not really. Some other issues concerning Mist was:

Fake comments: I personally can't tell the difference, whether those are really fake comments or mist is just someone who is simply concerned about ending the game too early, as I've seen the latter in another game.

Not going through with questions: I've went through the list where Mist ISO'ed '?' and I think this accusation was sufficiently disproved.

overdefensive because making the list: Some people put more effort than others when they hunt scum or defend themselves. I don't see this as a scum-read.

coachy: I agree! This is definitely a good alignment tell between TheCow and Mist. Since we don't have any scum-read on mist, why not we lynch TheCow instead!

town-read on pisskop: I would like Mist to elaborate, why she thinks pisskop is town by sharing the use of his spreadsheet. I predict I will disagree with her reasoning, but will think it's reasonable, as I think I know where she's going with it.

Also, her frustration after receiving gameplay's response to her defense seems reasonable to me. I had this feeling, gameplay didn't understood some of Mists' points. Whether he was intentionally trying to be confusing or genuinely misinterpreted them, I'm not sure and I will ISO-ing gameplay next.

In the mean time, I would like those on the Mist wagon to explain properly why you want this lynch.

[hayatoBL]

ika is a lurker by playstyle, conman is selective in his postings. The difference is that Conman is flat lurking and ika is acting like ika.

Call me dumb, but I need you to rephrase this. I don't get your scum-read on con at all. No need to tell me about ika. What bugs me is that you seem to have enough confidence about scum-con for you to claim you "know" he's scum.

Speaking of knowing who's scum, Mist also claimed she "knows" that gameplay is scum. I understand that they are actually claiming they have reasonable amount confidence that that their respective targets are scum, not really knowing. I think Mist "knowing" is justified, while pisskop "knowing" is not.

[hayatoBL]

I really don't know.

I had the slight feeling it was SvT with you being the scum one, but I would like to ISO you to solidify or change my reads. I felt like Mist was the one trying to clear things up, while you were the one who was trying to be confusing. I'll give examples later.

And when you're talking to someone who tries to confuse things, you get frustrated, something I sensed in Mist's tone when she's putting up her defense.

I would even disagree with you that she is bad town. Seems decent to me.

[hayatoBL]

About unanswered questions:

It's pretty normal to ask a question, to get a respond and have nothing to say in return. Not all response help your reads in one way or the other. Sometimes you just end your investigation with a null. That happens

Did you checked whether the responses to mist's questions deserve a reply? If even you have nothing to say to those comments, why are you expecting Mist to have something to say? Because both of you are allowed to comment on those answers.

I'll admit, I also need to check whether the answer to Mist's question deserves a respond or not, as this is actually something I just thought of.

[hayatoBL]

I wrote 'unanswered questions' as the title, but actually I mean, 'answers which Mist never used'.

[hayatoBL]

ok. in the meantime please show me those 6-7 unanswered questions. I can do it by myself, but since you're the one who's trying to prove Mist is scum here. (and laziness)

[hayatoBL]

So much work to do when we can simply lynch a certain farm animal and call me awesome/lucky Tomorrow.

[hayatoBL]

The longer Hayato stays on the sideline of this game, the more I think he is scum.

I would have agreed with you here that this is a valid scum-tell if there are a lot of alignment-indicative comments being said in a game. There aren't alot in *this* game, therefore I disagree. Sure, I said laziness before, but nah I don't think so.

I am fairly confident that I have made stances where stances are due. Where I can't get any read, I don't claim to have any.

One way you could prove that I'm 'staying on the sideline' is to show me which posts I should have a strong opinion on, but I didn't have any.

Also, you're sure I'm the player with the least stance taken? If not, then who is and why aren't you scum-reading them?

[hayatoBL]

hayato, what is your case against me, exactly? At this point, I should say.

Stay tuned. Need more votes on you anyway.

1. It all started with a lie. TheCow pretended to be a new player by asking what RVS is and demonstrating an RVS, while asking if that was correct.

2. This lie was revealed and he admitted later it was a lie. But he claimed the lie was made to further a plan, which is to get himself killed.

3. He explained that the reason why getting himself killed would benefit Town more: which is because he thinks his Town-play is below average.

Initially, I scum read him for that lie. But sure, he claimed to be doing it for a plan.

But then, the case was weak, with the worst case scenario being the most likely scenario. He tried to defends himself, but I don't buy it. A weak plan means that the person doing the plan doesn't really care about the outcome of said plan, but cares more about letting people know he was doing a plan

Most importantly

, his reads here and his comments from the game at that other site does not fit someone, who thinks his play is bad enough to plan his own kill, first thing in D1. It doesn't make sense to me. Sure, some people just have no confidence witht their play, but he thinks so little of himself, that he thinks Town would be better without him? Nah. His reads here was decent and I don't buy it at all.

Ask yourself these question? Does he know the playerslist to think that he would play poorer than the Town in this list? No. That's fake humility right there.

I remembered several town-reads on TheCow. Tell me if I missed any:

1) His reads list and the effort he put in.
Well, effort is not alignment indicative. His reads list is decent, but not great. Not something mafia couldn't have made. And the fact that the readslist was decent makes it weirder that he thought he should get himself killed.

2) calm when being pressured.
I'm always calm Town or scum. This is a forum game, not a chat game. You are given ample time to make sure your post seems calm and collected. I don't see this as a town-read, but rather I read him as a worthy adversary.

[hayatoBL]

But then, the

case

plan was weak, with the worst case scenario being the most likely scenario. He tried to defends himself, but I don't buy it. A weak plan means that the person doing the plan doesn't really care about the outcome of said plan, but cares more about letting people know he was doing a plan

Damn it.

[hayatoBL]

hayato, your case against me, reading and summarizing it, seems to be that you do not believe that my own self-assessment is legitimate, and that I am attempting to use it to seem pro-town after a near miss. Is this right?

Yes.

At the end of the day, your case appears to be what it started as, and it would be my presentation here, yes? You yourself say that all other factors are not alignment indicative, though with the factors you list, that seems to be understandable. Frankly, I do not know what other factors there might be involved. If, as you say, the only indicative factor (or the only one which might matter, as far as scumhunting is concerned) is my presentation, then yes, that would in fact make me

an easy "scum read"

. This is your thought process, yes?

Sorry. What do you mean by the bolded?

To simplify, you seem to think that with the apparent levels of skill which I am showing that I could not believe that my skill level is low enough that I would not think myself to be a good night one death based on knowledge of players in this game.

With or without the knowledge of players in this game.

But yes this is almost an accurate rephrase of my case.

FYI, 285 and 304 already depicted my case, only not in an orderly manner such as the one I did just now. So, it's strange that we're discussing about it as if there's something new.

[hayatoBL]

^ I've asked for the people on the Mist wagon to explain their scum-read on Mist (in case it wasn't done), because I only remembered reading gameplay's case. Can you fire?

I also want those who meta-read Mist as scum to explain their meta read.

Sorry. What do you mean by the bolded?

On second thought, TheCow. Could you be a dear and rephrase the whole text, if you want me to respond to it that is.

[hayatoBL]

Could Hayato vs Cow be SvS?

If you have meta-read my scum play, you would know scum-hayato love to hard-bus his partner.
But you haven't, so why do you I'm bussing him?

Or if you think we are from different faction, please tell us then, why am I scum. Even a weak read can potentially help me read you.

Anyway, I would like to ISO the remaining player to see if there's anyone more vote-worthy than TheCow. Until then....

[hayatoBL]

I'm going to predict for my own amusement: TheCow's (if he's scum) team was the on who shot Bella.

[hayatoBL]

Another prod dodge-ish post.

I have ISO-ed the low content players radja(mario)/ika/prolapsed. I hope by starting with them, I'll be motivated to finish ISO-ing the rest of the players.

I think we should keep radja(mario). ika's post seems to reflect the current gamestate (very little content to work with) while prolapsed can be a policy lynch which I would like to avoid doing.

As of recent events, there's too much of Night Kill Analysis. I would like to suggest that we stop doing that as I don't think it's a reliable way to scum-hunt. Scum A can kill X because of Y reason or scum B can kill X to frame A.

Would like to hear that meta-case on Mist,

Prolapsed

.

And those (i remember

firebringer

)who scum-read Mist besides gameplay must explain why they scum-read her if they haven't already.

gameplay

: before your last post, you've mentioned a few times you wanted TheCow lynch without mentioning why. Would like a reason for it, even if you think differently right now.

[hayatoBL]

Radja also has few posts, but looking at them, he seems to be in the middle (as in, not taking a side) on issues. Most posts, if you would bear with me for a second, tries to "pull things to the middle, if that makes sense? #117, 122, 160 as an example. He "forgot this was multiball" in post 163.
Another post since I started this.

I think this post would speak lo

a

der after my death

, if I were to be lynched, rather than now, but with 163 he seems pretty town-like.

The bolded is strange, considering you don't really have a strong stance on radja.

Like it's not "THIS GUY IS DEFINITELY SCUM. LYNCH ME AND THIS POST WOULD SPEAK LOUDER AFTER MY DEATH". You only had a weak town-read on radja but felt like your death would speak louder for....a weak town-read?

Because I've ISO-ed radja yesterday, i found this:

The fact that he expresses himself being expendable really points at town for me.

Seems like you're trying to look like you think yourself as being expendable to solidfy radja's townread on you.

Care to rebut?

[hayatoBL]

I was referring to 216 not my post, if that changes your stance on the situation. If not, I'll rebuttal later.

Ok. I've misinterpreted that.

But it's still strange. What were you trying to say there? I think you were trying to say that radja's town-read on you would speak louder if you died and flipped town. Is this correct? I have this feeling, it isn't.

[hayatoBL]

Ho? I thought it would be apparent that I was still on the "lets lynch Prolapsed" train, and got on this one instead, it being the next highest line in terms of quality and service. If my vote was really the "scummies of them all", why did you fail to bring it up yesterday when I inquired about the cases against me.

I think gameplay's reasons are weak. Actually, TheCow's vote on ConMan made me town-read TheCow a little, considering both Mist and ConMan flipped town.

1. Deadline was near.
2. Only two wagons were possible at that time, TheMist and ConMan.

scum-TheCow could have easily done nothing, and let either one get lynched. Not really a strong town-read, but definitely not a scum-read. Don't you agree, gameplay?

It looks like gameplay was saving up lynches, revealing reads only when he wants to push those lynches. Twice, he has done this. Once on Mist, and the second time on TheCow.

also, gameplay: you did express suspicion on TheCow *before* he voted ConMan, so what was your reason to think TheCow was scum then?

[hayatoBL]

There's a couple of leaps of logic. Or I'm just dumb. Please prove I'm just dumb.

Radja was one of the only ones off of the wagon -> Therefore, they could be met with some interesting vote analysis -> Therefore, you said, radja's town-read on you would speak louder if you died.

Arrows represent those leaps of logic.

Man, if you're town, I'm hating myself for obsessing over this.

[hayatoBL]

I'm probably just not bright enough to put the dots together, as I don't see how everything fits here. I can further elaborate my issue on your previous post and there will be more arrows than before, but meh, I don't feel like it's going to be fruitful.

So, I'm going to ask for a second opinion instead.

Maybe Klick(or anyone else)?

Does that post makes sense and is it a valid response to my issue on him or is he just trying to avoid adressing the issue by putting a lot of words to seem like he did?

I will feel somewhat incompetent, if the post actually made sense.

[hayatoBL]

He isn't more town than Mist. Like they are both equally not town, but just Mist seems more likely to flip scum to me. Especially given recent events. But ye say it your way.

Can we like compromise on a 3rd lynch?

So, you don't think ConMan is Town, but think he's not a good compromise lynch. An uncooperative non-Town read is a perfect compromise lynch to me. So you asking for a 3rd compromise lynch seems fake to me. What exactly is your idea for a compromise lynch?

Also, you could have suggested TheCow as a compromise lynch, but didn't put the effort, yet wanted someone to suggest a 3rd lynch. I mean, had you put out the case on Cow, probably people will agree with you and we could get TheCow as a compromise lynch. No?

[hayatoBL]

Actually, I'm feeling a little confused by thecow now. I'm also a little hung-over and I have some things to do so will reread these posts tonight and see if they make more sense then.

Thanks. A third opinion, a fourth opinion and so on....

[hayatoBL]

gameplay: Can you tell me why you decided not to meta me and also tell me why did you wanted to meta me initially?

Also, your scum-read on me. What was it about?

[hayatoBL]

It requires not only you to die but also radja to die and flip scum. A second death. And to reach which conclusion? That his partner was on your wagon? And how reliable is this conclusion? Seems like a distant(as in requiring a second death) conclusion to make with little reliability for you to say "My death will make the post speak louder".

Those other scenarios you have could be helpful(at this point, I doubt it, but hey, let's leave no stone unturned). Because this one didn't.

[hayatoBL]

I am pretty confused on TheCow in general, admittedly, but I also think he believes what he's saying and isn't just spouting off random theory. I suspect Cow thought Mist was scum, and that combined with Radja being off the ConMan wagon would be what made the vote analysis interesting? That's just a guess. Regardless, Cow's thoughts seem genuine to me, whether they're from town or scum.

People have been claiming they are good at reading genuinity in other games and people have been wrong. Would like you to reconsider. At least you agree it was confusing. Though I'm a bit sceptic on your ability to read genuinity from a player like TheCow specifically, but I don't feel like raising this issue right now.

I'm probably going to vote for TheCow but want to see his and gameplay's response and read on Fire, Wanderer, pisskop and Klick first.

[hayatoBL]

@everyone not voting Prolapsed Brain: ISO him. Then vote him.

Even if Brain is scum, there are at least two(if we exclude ika) other scum playing actively. Why not pressure them and sort them out and if we can't agree to a lynch, we'll just lynch Brain.

[hayatoBL]

If this flips scum, I'm still awesome eventhough I wasn't on the wagon.

Last reads TheCow? If you're Town, you would want your voice heard.

[hayatoBL]

Also, thanks for ending the Day without me having to read everyone. ><

[hayatoBL]

TheCow (2) - Gameplay506, MarioManiac4

VOTE: thecow

VOTE: thecow

VOTE: TheCow

vote: thecow

Am I missing something? It's 6 to lynch.

[hayatoBL]

lol

Are you optimistic with this lynch?

[hayatoBL]

Wanderer choosing to join the Cow wagon, despite never claiming a scumread on him and PBrain having three votes, supports PBrain-Firescum

I agree with this. To add to the point, I think if Brain wasn't Wanderer's partner, he would have behaved more naturally since he should be OK lynching any of the two(TheCow & Brain). More naturally, as in continuing to question TheCow some more. No to mention that Wanderer had "town-reads" on TheCow and "scum-reads" on Brain. His more natural move(if Brain isn't his partner) there would probably not to vote TheCow early, vote Brain while questioning TheCow to look more Town.

Also, Brain's talk with me about Tatsuya(which was Wanderer's predecessor) was weird. I had suspicion on Tat about his V/LA but then changed it into a null after he explains himself. Brain claimed that he null read Tatsuya, but for some reason felt the need to oppose my change of opinion on Tatsuya from scum to null. Would like for Brain to elaborate more on why he was opposing my opinion there.

I can agree to a Brain lynch, but want to solidify my reads on the others before I put my vote.

[hayatoBL]

Would like for Brain to elaborate more on why he was opposing my opinion there.

What I meant here, why do you feel like opposing it since I'm changing my reads on Tatsuya(from scum to null), which is the same as your read on him at that time, so it's weird.

[hayatoBL]

This makes me iffy of PB Firescum.

Because he said "PBrain too"?

[hayatoBL]

Brain: If you're Town and Klick is scum, you're handing him the win as his vote on you is perfectly justified. Please do something about this if you're Town.

gameplay: Be a dear and answer questions please.

Klick: Wanderer's and Brain's voting one after the other on TheCow actually says something against them being scum together. No?

[hayatoBL]

^Not sure whaat you're afraid so of. Two scum quick-hammering reveals themselves as scums. This is starting to look fake to me.

Also, why does wanderer's read list makes you think Brain is not his partner initially. Let me understand you even if you think differently now.

[hayatoBL]

It's mylo. I'm the doctor. I debated with myself whether to claim or not.

I can pretend to be VT and see if scum claim Doc, but I have too little balls for that.

Sorry if this is the wrong move, so yeah I'm the doc.

Very funny thing is: I protected N1) Firebringer N2) Klick N3) gameplay. No reason for me to make this up.

I will admit, I didn't put much thought onto my targets but I assure you I remember why I did it. Unnecessary to explain this unless scum decided to counter-claim.

[hayatoBL]

anyway I think I know who the doctor is but I want a claim

Klick?

What's your take on Klick currently?

[hayatoBL]

We're looking for Wanderer's partner,and I'm glad that the remaining players are among the active players. Seems like a nice last showdown to me.

[hayatoBL]

Sorry. I thought we were looking for Brain's partner when I said that.

[hayatoBL]

I'll keep my cards close for now as I potentially can be confirmed town.

Well, I don't really have reads but I have some leads, which I would like to look into.

[hayatoBL]

^which would make gameplay equally guilty. no?

[hayatoBL]

You may call me Dr. or for short.

I'm going to look into some few stuff, but I expect others to give their thoughts first, so that scum cannot simply 'follow the conf-town'.

[hayatoBL]

FYI Fire, Klick claimed somewhere in a different game, he's good at playing scum. In that game he was Town. I just don't want you to eliminate

Hi, catching up.

Some reads that I can read unclearly;
Fire bringer: Good contributer. Town lean.
gameplay506: Agreed to you, we need to do something to fire up this game. Null-read because can't find anything from him.
Mist7676: Town lean? I guess.
ConManMick: Don't suicide! We need to get rid of scum, so be fresh! Slight town lean for some reason.
Others: Need more posts.

Everyone was reading Klick as Town at this point. Is it possible this guy doesn't see Klick as Town or was he too afraid to town-read his own partner? Not sure but I think this should shift Fire slightly to Town.

[hayatoBL]

^ .....eliminate Klick from scum-pool just yet.

[hayatoBL]

But Klick-ISO is town....or he's really good at faking it. I have a few points against him, but it's too minor.

gameplay, fire: do you have any objection if I cast a vote on gameplay to prove that Klick is Town(or scum)? Cos let's be honest if klick is scum, he has won already. Cast a vote on yourself if you agree, gameplay.

[hayatoBL]

^ Fine. Then let's do something.

Fire: I'm not going to vote for Klick just because I don't want to be outplayed by him. And I hope this isn't your last stance.

[hayatoBL]

I am optimistic.
Cow will flip...
Ice .

You're joking here, right? Because this is only funny, if you really are the fire-scum you know?

Ha told ya ika was scum

This and that is probably you trying to be cheeky. To tell us later when you win, how you've put hints here and there that you were the fire-scum. And you seem to be that kind of player.


But my reads sucked all game, so yeah.

[hayatoBL]

Wtf. Putting all the pressure on me. At least prove klick is scum first.

So, klick you're ok with me voting fire and prove gameplay is town?

[hayatoBL]

no. I'm gauging your confidence, because you've already voted and it seems you aren't.

[hayatoBL]

have either of you played in a game with Wanderer-scum before?

nope

Actually I wanna vote klick cus Fire's paranoia really seems genuine

What paranoia? He wants to lynch Klick because he doesn't want to lose to him. Anyway, absent town-case on you(which should be provided by Firebringer) there's no way I'm going to simply agree with a Klick lynch.

And I dont really think firescum would go with the harder lynch so

I go for the harder lynch all the time as scum to gain town-cred. You're saying you never did this?

[hayatoBL]

Actually you know fuk it
VOTE: Klick

Hmm...why on earth would you go for a harder lynch? You have to be Town!

[hayatoBL]

Damn it, just ISO-ed gameplay and Fire. This is going to be difficult...

[hayatoBL]

[hayatoBL]

Would like your scum games gameplay...

[hayatoBL]

Fire: You still think gameplay is more likely to flip scum. You just don't want to lose against scum-Klick. Is this correct?

[hayatoBL]

Fire, I kinda get you. But if klick is town, by doing so you're punishing the whole Town for Klick's mistake.

That's 9 sad pandas you know?

[hayatoBL]

Then vote yourself. I mean lynching town-klick would result in gameplay winning. The result would be the same if you vote yourself and let gameplay win.

And if klick is scum, voting yourself would prove gameplay's Town.

If your stance is genuine, you would have no objection voting yoursef.

[hayatoBL]

That was while klick's vote was on firebringer and was adressed to fire.

[hayatoBL]

Because you prefer scum-gameplay winning over scum-klick winning ignoring any reads.

Putting yourself on L-1 and handing the hammer to gameplay only quicken what you wish for.

If he's scum he'll hammer you and you got what you want.

If he doesn't hammer you, you can confirm klick as scum.

[hayatoBL]

VOTE: gameplay

Klick?

[hayatoBL]

Shit

[hayatoBL]

It'a okay. You deserve the win.

To gameplay, I wasn't voting you to lynch. I was rather confident klick was town. I don't intend to apologize though.

[hayatoBL]

You can yell at me all you want. I don't think I'm to blame for

Klick: I didn't really have aNY strong read coming into this game.

[hayatoBL]

I was wrong in voting but not necesseraily at fault. I am open to the fact that I am though.

But probably gameplay and fire looked less town than klick and therefore at fault?

[hayatoBL]

Nooo. No ending to that flavpur? I kinda like it.

Thanks for modding btw!

[hayatoBL]

I was wrong in voting but not necesseraily at fault. I am open to the fact that I am though.

But probably gameplay and fire looked less town than klick and therefore at fault?

yes.

you were the one who lead the charge on gameplay. during a mylo/lylo somoen who looks town and still alive i would majorly quesiton.

i mean if i was in your plac ei would be pressing klick hardcore on why he has not once been shot by either

I would have considered him being alive a scum-tell if this wasn't a multiball. Scum needs to shoot the other scum, so I thought klick being alive is just that. Not reasonable?

[hayatoBL]

Sorry ika. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Now you're bullying me.