Star Trek Deep Space Nine Season 1 Mafia(game over!)

[Sinsun1]

Okay, I was about to go watch a movie, had it set up and everything on Netflix, grabbing my bowl of Fruit Loops and pouring the milk in it while thinking this over. Then I thought of something to destroy Mafia's counter-logic this game.

You see, PereV has effectively backed everyone up into a wall. Town needs to vote confirmed mafia first.

Now PereV can be one of two factions. Town or Mafia. If he's Town, then we know what roles are which faction and have quite a few clears in the game right now. If he's Mafia, he can either be bussing team mates for town credit or giving us completely false info. If he is bussing mafia and giving us real results though, he backs himself into a wall because he wont be able to vote off any cleared townies by him.

Anyway, now lets go to Kling's vote, which I feel incriminates him for the unsure. Because of who he votes. Now I can be town whether or not PereV is town or mafia. However, if PereV is town, I am 100% town. Meaning if Kling really believes I am mafia he must first vote off PereV because unless PereV is mafia, I have no way in being mafia.

Think about that for a moment. We now have a claimant who has "cleared" multiple people. But unless he flips mafia, then everyone he cleared is REALLY cleared. Now, instead of a suspected mafia voting for the one who clears me, he votes for me. Which leads to the result of lynching a possible cleared without seeing what the clearer flips. Meaning they can cause doubt and a mislynch in the clearer later on. However, attempting to vote me off now means that the player does not have town's best interest in mind, because they are aiming for the most likely townie out of two people.

I believe even PereV can state, that unless he's mafia, there is no possible way that I, Suzune or Thor are mafia.

Now onto the other track of mind I had. What if PereV IS bussing for town credit. I mean it wouldn't be hard.

1. Klingoncelt - Lynch today, flips scum.
3. davesaz
8. Riabi - Mislynched the 2 days from now, flips anything but town doctor.
12. Titus - Lynched tomorrow, flips scum doc/tracker to fit PereV's claim.
13. Sinsun1 - Killed 2 nights from tonight. 3rd cleared by PereV townie gone.
16. Thor665 - Killed tomorrow night, 2nd cleared by PereV townie gone.
17. PeregrineV
18. Nero Cain
20. Suzune - Killed tonight, 1 cleared by PereV townie gone.
21. LittleGumball

That would leave:
Daves
PereV
Nero
Gumball

for final 4. In this scenario, if PereV were mafia bussing his partners, he'd only need to mislynch Daves or Nero. Now chew on that one for thought.

Anyway, I don't believe that is the case, but it's just a possibility that popped in my head.

I remain adamant that by aiming for me and not checking PereV first, Klingon has effectively incriminated herself as mafia. As logical town would aim for the person clearing the other first.

[Titus]

Sinsun, Klingon's logic is pretty good actually. You seemed more focused on clearing yourself an automatically sheeping whatever PerV says. You've been attempting to create dichotomies that aren't based in fact or logic. PerV and I (while being unaligned pairs) a town flip on me doesn't condemn PerV, nor does a townflip on PerV condemn me.

Second, PerV's claim has holes in it. First, PerV says the conditional tracker may be town, but in the same post says the "tracker is scum" with no quantifers. That leaves a lot of wiggle room. Next, his claim has scum with a full doctor and a treestump to avoid two killing deaths, one of which can be absorbed by a lightning rod possibly. That much protection doesn't make sense for scum as its way more than what town appears to have. Thor and I disagree on what PerV asked, but he can clarify it himself by highlighting what the last town PRs are (if he knows). Furthermore, PerV and Sinsun tried to push the doctor to claim being the doctor "because scum could catch them", yet when I refused to claim (proving or disproving my status as doctor), the doctor suddenly became a scum role. Given a scum doctor would give town less protective power than scum, I'm more inclined to believe a) the doctor is town or b) the doctor does not exist (wifom, not disavowing doctor possibilites but stating what is possible and what can be deduced).

Third, Klingon's point is logically legit. If you cannot be scum due to scum not being able to hammer being bad, then Klingon shouldn't be scum because she would logically lose the ability to vote at some point.

Fourth, you continue to go down the same argument pushing the same points despite me being a known counterwagon to scum.

If you are town, you should have reset some point last night. Yet, you are proceeding as if the Hermit flip never happened after a grave reluctance to even discuss Hermit yesterday.

[Titus]

Sinsun, Why aren't you considering the possibility that PerV's claim is totally fake?

You considered the possibility of him being totally truthful, then you consider him bussing, but not once do you consider it being fake and you never have. That reeks of buddying.

VOTE: Sinsun

[Titus]

@Perv, Did you deduce what roles were on the scumteam based on a flavor narrative or did the mod specifically tell you something along the lines of

[Scum have the following PR roles: roleblocker, motivator, etc...]

OR

[Scum have the look of angels, the spirit of two men ... blah blah blah]

[davesaz]

Further question for Pere: Did your oracle role have limited shots?

[Titus]

Further question for Pere: Did your oracle role have limited shots?

He's already claimed. 2 shot. One was asking what PR roles the scumteam had. The other was either (is there a town lightning rod [my interpretation]) or (what PR roles does town have [Thor's interpretation].

[Sinsun1]

Keep digging your hole Titus. You've been far gone off being town read for a long time now. What I have stated makes complete sense and you again ignore the fact PereV specifically said Conditional tracker and Tracker, meaning both are different.

Yes, I was not scum reading Hermit before PereV made his full answer claim, but before that, how could I? It's easy to bus your partner there Titus when you know what he was anyway. For me, I do not have certainty on some random. You expect me to 180 my reads on you, Kling and Riabi due to one person flipping scum that I did not 100% believe was scum? I stated yesterday there was the possibility that there were 2 wagons on scum, 1 between you and PereV and Hermit either be a 2nd town or scum wagon. For me, there was no sure way he was scum but in my mind you were scum and still are scum. You've done nothing to improve that stance with me. But for now I am going after Kling since PereV has outed him as scum. If he is town, that means PereV was lying, if he isn't that's one more scum down.

The fact you don't see and push that as well Titus just further shows your awful attempt to mislynch me. I hope I get to add to your wiki some day "Titus is bad at mislynching town as scum" because you're going after one of the more obvious town players this game. PereV knows I'm town, Suzune knows I'm town, heck even Thor who is stubborn as ever knows I am town. Many dead townies knew I was town and yet you and Kling, two of the current scummiest players "scum read" me. No, you see, that holds little weight when you're scum Titus. All I need is town to know who I am, scum already knew who I am and their attempt to cause doubt in me will just backfire.

Also I believe Thor's interpretation, due to PereV knowing I was Priest. That and knowing Psyche was the town tracker, with a mafia one still out there.

[davesaz]

Further question for Pere: Did your oracle role have limited shots?

He's already claimed. 2 shot. One was asking what PR roles the scumteam had. The other was either (is there a town lightning rod [my interpretation]) or (what PR roles does town have [Thor's interpretation].

I had a specific reason for asking. In the future please don't interfere.

[davesaz]

@Suzune, any limited shots among your abilities?

[Titus]

Further question for Pere: Did your oracle role have limited shots?

He's already claimed. 2 shot. One was asking what PR roles the scumteam had. The other was either (is there a town lightning rod [my interpretation]) or (what PR roles does town have [Thor's interpretation].

I had a specific reason for asking. In the future please don't interfere.

Fair enough. It was already answered, otherwise I would not have interfered.

[Suzune]

Well, goodness, glad to know that Sinsun has my death all lined up for this coming night. Honestly, I have never, seen people posts list like that before. Who does that, I have seen people assume that they were going to die, however, I have never had people predict everyone else's death before. Sinsun I assumed you had a good power one that it would prove you were townie is nothing else then that it would prove you, however, your power was lackluster. Although given that most of the powers in this game are odd, but still, it is easily the ability of anyone. I think we are splitting hairs here. Why would this game have two trackers. Either PV asked the wrong question or he made the wrong deduction, or it was a very creative fake claim. However, we as good as knew the Psyche was the tracker so perhaps not the best move...

Sinsun, you are tunneling, too much. To the point where you are either scum or a totally blind townie because you are no longer thinking, both of which are destructive to the town.

@Dave, the lightingbolt was one shot, the post restricter is two shot.

[Thor665]

@Klingon - as town and treestump, and as a way to test Pere's info more (since he just did help nail a scum...not that we needed outing for that I would have thought, but still ) would you support lynch of yourself today - that way when you flip town we know for a fact that Pere is scum and can lynch him tomorrow?

Functionally we have the spare lynch at this stage unless you are of the mindset that we started with more than 5 allied scum.

@Perv, Did you deduce what roles were on the scumteam based on a flavor narrative or did the mod specifically tell you something along the lines of

[Scum have the following PR roles: roleblocker, motivator, etc...]

OR

[Scum have the look of angels, the spirit of two men ... blah blah blah]

I support this question.

Also, Titus, remind me which scum you were the counterwagon to?
Because I'm pretty sure the timing of the wagon will say you were the counter to Pere or he was the counter to you (I forget which, and it doesn't really matter as you are both Schrodinger's Mafia right now functionally). You were not a counter to Augustine.
Nor to ika (who had no counterwagon)

Also, if you have an issue with Pere's claim (and the scum it helped lynch...y'know, besides you leading it ...what do you see as his cum plan in that buss? Just to save himself over a non-limited roleblocker? What's his role then?

@Mod - incidentally, I am not a big fan of you posting a truncated vote count at lynch as opposed to a full vote count. The full count would be much more useful, and I can't see any reason to cut out the other wagon info from every lynch post since you must still be tracking votes at that stage.

[Thor665]

I also still wouldn't ind hearing anyone explain the concept of how Augustine's claim was an attempt to save Titus.
I still don't understand that and a couple people said it like they understood and believed it - and I really am lost on that concept.

[MonkeyMan576]

@Klingon - as town and treestump, and as a way to test Pere's info more (since he just did help nail a scum...not that we needed outing for that I would have thought, but still ) would you support lynch of yourself today - that way when you flip town we know for a fact that Pere is scum and can lynch him tomorrow?

Functionally we have the spare lynch at this stage unless you are of the mindset that we started with more than 5 allied scum.

@Perv, Did you deduce what roles were on the scumteam based on a flavor narrative or did the mod specifically tell you something along the lines of

[Scum have the following PR roles: roleblocker, motivator, etc...]

OR

[Scum have the look of angels, the spirit of two men ... blah blah blah]

I support this question.

Also, Titus, remind me which scum you were the counterwagon to?
Because I'm pretty sure the timing of the wagon will say you were the counter to Pere or he was the counter to you (I forget which, and it doesn't really matter as you are both Schrodinger's Mafia right now functionally). You were not a counter to Augustine.
Nor to ika (who had no counterwagon)

Also, if you have an issue with Pere's claim (and the scum it helped lynch...y'know, besides you leading it ...what do you see as his cum plan in that buss? Just to save himself over a non-limited roleblocker? What's his role then?

@Mod - incidentally, I am not a big fan of you posting a truncated vote count at lynch as opposed to a full vote count. The full count would be much more useful, and I can't see any reason to cut out the other wagon info from every lynch post since you must still be tracking votes at that stage.

I'll take it under advisement.

[Titus]

@Thor, I was a CW to Augustine.

I don't define CWs in terms of chronology. That's a semantic and time debate. The fact is that scum had to choose between mislynching me or voting Augustine. That to me is a CW. If you need evidence of my definition, just look at any game where I analyze the vote counts. Speaking of that, I need to do my VCA here.

I saw PereV's plan as to lynch me and Hermit slip was unplanned. They couldn't figure out how to handle it, so they figured it best to try to have people ignore Hermit's slip and try to bolster PV's claim. Yet, the way that Sinsun opened gives me minute doubts about PereV being scum, just due to the way she's treating his claimed as confirmed true.

[Thor665]

@Thor, I was a CW to Augustine.

No, you were not.

I don't define CWs in terms of chronology. That's a semantic and time debate. The fact is that scum had to choose between mislynching me or voting Augustine. That to me is a CW. If you need evidence of my definition, just look at any game where I analyze the vote counts. Speaking of that, I need to do my VCA here.

What votes were added to your wagon as the wagon on Augustine grew?

I saw PereV's plan as to lynch me and Hermit slip was unplanned. They couldn't figure out how to handle it, so they figured it best to try to have people ignore Hermit's slip and try to bolster PV's claim. Yet, the way that Sinsun opened gives me minute doubts about PereV being scum, just due to the way she's treating his claimed as confirmed true.

Why wouldn't a Three Stooges style team just do that also?

Do you like my plan to lynch the treestump as a second Pere test - or do you think that's another scumbuddy he's bussing? (in which case, it's still a good plan)

[Thor665]

What votes were added to your wagon as the wagon on Augustine grew?

@Titus - going back to answer this for myself I looked at all votes that happened after the roleblock claim.
The answer is Sinsum (and Constantine at the 11th hour so that it doesn't matter)

So - you're convinced that Sinsum is scum now, 100%? Because otherwise you're not a counterwagon to scum.

[Titus]

@Thor,

Lynching PerV is better than Klingon. PerV confirmed Klingon as scum if he's town and gathers much more information about the setup if we are wrong. Lynching Klingon and being wrong just nets us PerV scum. Lynching PerV and getting scum shows that PerV was trying to buddy/sneak through a buddy. Lynching Klingon and getting scum doesn't confirm PerV's information as true, as you said he could be bussing.

None. Scum were already on my wagon PerV. Town wouldn't vote me, because of Hermit's slip. CW's are about the choices town and scum making, not chronology of specific votes.

I don't know what you mean by a "Three Stooges Team". I'm familiar with who the three stooges are, but I don't how that applies to mafia.

[Thor665]

Fourth, you continue to go down the same argument pushing the same points despite me being a known counterwagon to scum.

And since you're talking to Sinsum here and not throwing that in his face...

[Titus]

Fourth, you continue to go down the same argument pushing the same points despite me being a known counterwagon to scum.

And since you're talking to Sinsum here and not throwing that in his face...

Pronoun usage makes this impossible to follow.

[Thor665]

I used the pronouns exactly as English dictates.

'You're" = Titus.
"His" = Sinsum.

[Titus]

That is the pronoun which confused me.

[Sinsun1]

Sinsun, you are tunneling, too much. To the point where you are either scum or a totally blind townie because you are no longer thinking, both of which are destructive to the town.

Do explain what tunneling means to you. To me, it is someone who will not look at others. I have stated my current views and cases on others.

1. Klingoncelt - Currently voting for to prove or disprove PereV's claim.
3. davesaz - Currently town read him, based off of deduction of reads on others. Also his interactions with Titus lately seems like they aren't quite on the same team if either of them are scum.
8. Riabi - Currently scum read, but he's on the lower priority list with Kling to test PereV's claim and Titus in the lead.
12. Titus - Highest one on my scum list, only being put aside to test PereV's claims.
16. Thor665 - Town, based on PereV's claims and cop reads.
17. PeregrineV - Town, based on personal opinion and trust.
18. Nero Cain - Town, based on deduction of others. Always possible to be scum, but for now that would be the lowest scum read I have.
20. Suzune - Town, based on PereV's claims and cop reads.
21. LittleGumball - Town, based on cop reads.

So please, do tell me how I am tunneling. I am thinking clearly on others. Hell, I'm not even voting Titus right now because I am thinking objectively for the town. Meanwhile both Kling and Titus are voting me. How is that objective in any form? You do not tell Titus he is tunneling me nor Kling.

Also the list I made about deaths was giving a scenario if PereV were to be mafia playing us into a trap. The night deaths could be any order, just that we'd be the ones picked off at night because he's the one who cleared us.

Also, if you have an issue with Pere's claim (and the scum it helped lynch...y'know, besides you leading it ...what do you see as his cum plan in that buss? Just to save himself over a non-limited roleblocker? What's his role then?

This question is what I wonder about Titus. Bussing a doomed motivator (who gives mafia 2 uses of powers at night) and bussing a roleblocker. Tracker and Doctor can't be all that important can they? Is it role based, or just knowing certain people are doomed already to be lynched?

Fastposted by Titus and Thor. Oh Thor, I love you man. At this point they can't even touch you because PereV and I wont falter our read on you. They can't touch you, Gumball or Suzune because PereV and I wont budge on our reads on them. So they are aiming at us. Not sure why Titus is trying to buddy PereV and say "he may be town". It's like no dude. If you scum read me, you have to scum read PereV because if PereV knows which roles belong to each faction, it effectively makes me town if he's town with the POSSIBILITY that I'm scum if he's scum. There's no way around that and Titus is now stooped into a hole that he can't get out of. If he manages to trick enough town into a mislynch today, I will be amazed.

Also, I note that they chose to kill Psyche. I wonder why they chose him? Why not Thor or Suzune? Psyche was a lot less cleared than either of them, yet they chose the guy who forgot to bloody track the night before. Mind you, I've been surprised by the people scum have chosen to kill all game long. Picking random people I've neither fully town read or scum read. It's quite the stupid tactic on their part.

P.S Titus, I'm a guy, I posted a picture of myself earlier. I am male. I have a penis. I do not have breasts or a 2nd hole below the waistline.

[Titus]

@Suinsin, PereV never voted Hermit despite "knowing" the roleblocker was scum, and now you're giving him credit for bussing Hermit, unless I am misunderstanding your pronouns there. The other interpretation is that you're doubting me as scum, but I don't see that interpretation jiving with the rest of your post.

I don't have to scumread PerV if I scumread you unless PerV's answer follows Thor's interpretation. If it follows mine, PerV can be town while you are scum.

I also find it funny you harp on me calling you she and get frustrated about it, yet mistake my gender. It's also by my avatar which is a woman for the record.

[Sinsun1]

@Suinsin, PereV never voted Hermit despite "knowing" the roleblocker was scum, and now you're giving him credit for bussing Hermit, unless I am misunderstanding your pronouns there. The other interpretation is that you're doubting me as scum, but I don't see that interpretation jiving with the rest of your post.

I don't have to scumread PerV if I scumread you unless PerV's answer follows Thor's interpretation. If it follows mine, PerV can be town while you are scum.

I don't even believe that he is scum TO bus Hermit. I believe YOU bussed Hermit and you even tried to take credit for the wagon when a lot of it was due to Thor and at the very end, PereV's claim. You had almost nothing to do with Hermit's wagon besides questioning why I didn't hardcore scum read him. So don't take credit for wagons you did not start or finish. You were just another vote in the machine and there were obviously scum on the wagon so that they can claim town cred for being on the wagon, such as yourself.

That makes zero sense. PereV has stated he KNEW my role when I claimed to have a hammer power. So that means Thor's interpretation is correct. Heck, I am surprised you're still trying to mislynch me Titus. I tried to use my power first on you and then on Hermit to get one of you to admit to being scum or proving me wrong before mod places vote count showing the town and player on the lynch that they are not dead. It was to turn my useless role into a power role that could trick someone who believed themselves were about to die.

But I don't know why I keep trying to fight logic with you as your objective is to mislynch town. Maybe I am clinging onto that small shred of thought that you might be town, but every chance you get, you keep proving that thought wrong.

I also find it funny you harp on me calling you she and get frustrated about it, yet mistake my gender. It's also by my avatar which is a woman for the record.

Shh, mine's a typo, my "s" key is broken.. <.<... >.>...