512: Bojack Horseman Season 2 (Over)

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #400 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:00 am

Post by EspeciallyTheLies »

In post 399, Polar Vortex wrote:ETL, you may have missed my point against Kaboose. It's an acute version of yours on Sonic. He mentioned he voted firebringer because other people(me and you) jumped on him. That's the wall(if you think that's a wall... ) he's mentioned(and also the "scumslip")

ah... ok. I have a full reread planned for today, but it's quite busy at work at the moment. I will have time for it in a few hours most likely, when the bosses leave :cool:
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Post Post #401 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:10 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

In post 392, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 386, Metal Sonic wrote:
In post 384, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 380, Metal Sonic wrote:
In post 378, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Kaboose wasn't the largest wagon. You thought he was based on where the herd was going. You voted, thinking you were adding to the largest wagon, hoping to get an easy lynch. Instead, you just showed me how you aren't even in touch with the game because you don't need to be, because you already know who town are.

p-edit: Scum bravado.


How can you justify your position, instead of "Metal Sonic was not skimming and he decided to start a new wagon since he knows that there were no votes on the player"?

Occam's razor. That makes no sense. I'm looking for cause/effect. Not "Here's a thing that's weird, let me make up a weirdo reason to justify it, rather than search for the actual reason."


There's the problem, you see. You need to explain how you reached the Occam's razor of "Metal Sonic was skimming and mistakenly thought that it was the largest wagon."

You're already making 2 assumptions:
1. Metal Sonic is skimming.
2. Metal Sonic is wants to vote the largest wagon.

And two more bonus:
3. Metal Sonic's action is scum-motivated
4. Metal Sonic-Scum feels that Kaboose is an easy lynch.


Are you applying Occam's Razor correctly?

Here's how it occurred to me - I saw you make your vote and explain why when snowdra asked. The explanation sounded superficial to me, and I wanted to know why. So if you had another motive for placing your vote, what was it? In this game, there are two motives - town and scum. Town motive to place a vote should be based on suspicion and/or reaction gathering,
neither of which you indicated,
which means scum motivation, i.e. getting a town lynch as quickly as possible without being caught. So if that's true, why vote Kaboose over someone else? Like Firebringer (answer: because he's probably partner here). It must be because you thought that's where the vote needed to go. So how could you have missed that he had no votes? Must be because you've been skimming, which also supports the idea that it is scum motivation behind the vote, rather than town.

It is very easy to skim a thread and get a gist of where the town is moving. You thought the town was moving on Kaboose, you jumped.

p-edit: I'm at work.


Whoa there! Didn't you hear the saying "The absence of evidence does not equate to the evidence of absence"? How could you assume that because I "did not indicate" the "suspicion and/or reaction gathering", that means it is scum motivation? That sounds like a logical leap.

In a game, since players are statistically more likely to roll Town more than Scum, you are supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to a play if you "don't see indication of Town motivation"! Since this doesn't necessarily prove scum motivation, why are you assuming that this is the case?

Are you applying Occam's razor correctly?

---

Scum motivation: "getting a town lynch as quickly as possible without being caught."

But that's none of the things that actually happened! Clearly, the evidence shows, that the vote was not able to "get a town lynch as quickly as possible", and I also "got caught". So that's not true at all!


Here's an analogy. B walks up to a girl in a bar and says, "Hi". You, upon seeing this, immediately call B out for "attempting to rape a minor". Your explanation is that "He was striking up conversation with a young girl whom he did not know", and "The girl is young and pretty", therefore, using your rule that "Men usually talk to young pretty girls in order to go to bed with them", you finally arrive at the aforementioned conclusion. None of your speculations, however, are supported by the evidence.


How can you justify your position?



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Post Post #402 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:11 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

byebye dearie~<3

enjoy your work, i'll go do some of mine
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Post Post #403 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:14 am

Post by sekai no ki »

I really don't like MS' last few pages.
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Post Post #404 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:15 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

I really don't like how you're not my top townread.
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Post Post #405 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:24 am

Post by EspeciallyTheLies »

In post 401, Metal Sonic wrote:Here's an analogy. B walks up to a girl in a bar and says, "Hi". You, upon seeing this, immediately call B out for "attempting to rape a minor". Your explanation is that "He was striking up conversation with a young girl whom he did not know", and "The girl is young and pretty", therefore, using your rule that "Men usually talk to young pretty girls in order to go to bed with them", you finally arrive at the aforementioned conclusion. None of your speculations, however, are supported by the evidence.

Except in your analogy you are assuming a false dichotomy, whereas in this situation, there is EITHER town motivation OR scum motivation. I ruled out town motivation as I did not see it. You then saying it is there whether you show it or not does nothing for me, unless I see it. The burden of proof is on you to show me that you are town if you are. The burden on me is to determine your alignment correctly. If you don't show it to me, whose fault is it that you are read one way or the other? Mine? Or yours? You are not exhibiting town signals. Therefore, I wonder why they are missing.
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Post Post #406 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:26 am

Post by EspeciallyTheLies »

In this game, you are either an angel or a demon.

A man in a bar is many things in between, but certainly never only angel or demon.
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Post Post #407 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:27 am

Post by sekai no ki »

In post 404, Metal Sonic wrote:I really don't like how you're not my top townread.


You're playing rhetorical games rather than scumhunting.
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Post Post #408 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:38 am

Post by Kaboose »

In post 394, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:Kaboose - I agreed with many of wingback's points about you.

p-edit: I was speaking generally.


I was re-reading it and that's probably where it came from. So fair enough.

In post 399, Polar Vortex wrote:ETL, you may have missed my point against Kaboose. It's an acute version of yours on Sonic. He mentioned he voted firebringer because other people(me and you) jumped on him. That's the wall(if you think that's a wall... ) he's mentioned(and also the "scumslip")


When did I ever say I was voting someone because you two jumped on him? I voted him because of his terrible reaction to ETL trying to play the game "Well that was long and boring" which is miserable for a town person to say imo and doesn't fit a town mindset. ETL was giving reads, explaining her viewpoint on the game, and Firebringer wanted to discourage that. IMO that attitude is lynch worthy regardless of alignment. But you'd have to wonder why town would act that way, which I can't see town doing. Therefore scum read goes to Firebringer.

A lot of people filling in their own blanks in this game and it's really annoying.
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Post Post #409 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:44 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

In post 407, sekai no ki wrote:
In post 404, Metal Sonic wrote:I really don't like how you're not my top townread.


You're playing rhetorical games rather than scumhunting.


My rhetoric isn't actually that good, I'm practicing :D
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Post Post #410 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:48 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

In post 405, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 401, Metal Sonic wrote:Here's an analogy. B walks up to a girl in a bar and says, "Hi". You, upon seeing this, immediately call B out for "attempting to rape a minor". Your explanation is that "He was striking up conversation with a young girl whom he did not know", and "The girl is young and pretty", therefore, using your rule that "Men usually talk to young pretty girls in order to go to bed with them", you finally arrive at the aforementioned conclusion. None of your speculations, however, are supported by the evidence.

Except in your analogy you are assuming a false dichotomy, whereas in this situation, there is EITHER town motivation OR scum motivation. I ruled out town motivation as I did not see it. You then saying it is there whether you show it or not does nothing for me, unless I see it. The burden of proof is on you to show me that you are town if you are. The burden on me is to determine your alignment correctly. If you don't show it to me, whose fault is it that you are read one way or the other? Mine? Or yours? You are not exhibiting town signals. Therefore, I wonder why they are missing.


"I ruled out town motivation as I did not see it."

You can't say that you're using Occam's Razor if you rule things out :(

How did your post suddenly become a "Oh, it's your fault that you're acting scummy" post instead of how your read and explanation does not actually make sense according to the evidence?
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Post Post #411 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:51 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

In post 406, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:In this game, you are either an angel or a demon.

A man in a bar is many things in between, but certainly never only angel or demon.


Well said.

Except you're missing the point of my analogy (since when was any analogy perfect?). You're pulling up a string of speculations from what cannot be justified by what has happened.

You say that my vote on Kaboose was to "get an easy lynch", but because I "was skimming", therefore it was a badly placed vote, and you caught me.

But, if it wasn't an easy lynch in the first place, how can you assume that I'm "skimming"?


"Oh, but it looks like he was
intending to!!!1111!!1!11111
"
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Post Post #412 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:53 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

In post 408, Kaboose wrote:A lot of people filling in their own blanks in this game and it's really annoying.


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Post Post #413 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:53 am

Post by EspeciallyTheLies »

Why do you keep ignoring what I'm saying?

When one skims, it is easy to get the gist of where the town is heading. If you skimmed, it's likely that you got the idea that Kaboose was a leading wagon based on where the thread was going.
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Post Post #414 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:54 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

But if I did not skim?
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Post Post #415 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:54 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

Then I must have done it on purpose, right? Right!
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Post Post #416 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:54 am

Post by EspeciallyTheLies »

You're being really impudent and it's beginning to irritate me. If you aren't willing to have a real discussion without being antagonistic, we can stop right now.
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Post Post #417 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:55 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

:(

im sorry you're being irritated


i will stop. tomorrow bby
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Post Post #418 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:58 am

Post by EspeciallyTheLies »

In post 414, Metal Sonic wrote:But if I did not skim?

Again, we come back to the initial line that I responded to - you said you just decided to add it. Why would you just decide to do so? If town, then it must be due to some suspicion, except you've made no mention of such suspicion. So, yes, I have ruled that out because you have not provided this as such a reason, and in fact, despite it being brought up several times, still have not said anything about suspicion on Kaboose.

Therefore, there is another reason this vote was made. You made no mention of townreading the snowdra (I'm sorry, I can't remember the actual name - I'll get it in a second). Yet when pressured to explain your vote, your first response is NOT "I was helping them push a target" (which... um.. you did in BEES with me), it was "to add a vote".

So then you decide to backpedal and say it was because you wanted to help them push the wagon, and then clarify that you are town reading them and this is why, despite saying at first that it was just to add the vote.

So... really, MS. Enough.
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Post Post #419 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:07 am

Post by Polar Vortex »

I actually agree with MS on this. The fact that technically people didn't vote kaboose doesn't mean he wasn't paying attention. The distinction is superficial
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Post Post #420 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:13 am

Post by EspeciallyTheLies »

In post 419, Polar Vortex wrote:I actually agree with MS on this. The fact that technically people didn't vote kaboose doesn't mean he wasn't paying attention. The distinction is superficial

No no. It's not that by itself. It's the fact that he said he just wanted to "add it". Don't you see that the language implies he thought there were already votes there?
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Post Post #421 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:15 am

Post by Metal Sonic »

"I was adding a vote for comic effect"


"Adding" onto the wallpost made by Polar Bear, ETL. -_____-
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Post Post #422 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:24 am

Post by Polar Vortex »

In post 420, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:
In post 419, Polar Vortex wrote:I actually agree with MS on this. The fact that technically people didn't vote kaboose doesn't mean he wasn't paying attention. The distinction is superficial

No no. It's not that by itself. It's the fact that he said he just wanted to "add it". Don't you see that the language implies he thought there were already votes there?



Yes, and I also thought there were votes there. Because it was pretty clear the vast majority agreed kaboose was the main suspect, the fact that people weren't actually voting him is a bit irrelevant
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Post Post #423 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:32 am

Post by EspeciallyTheLies »

In post 422, Polar Vortex wrote:the fact that people weren't actually voting him is a bit irrelevant

Actually quite the opposite. It says a lot about the game state and those who are making the noise without the votes.

Why would people not be voting a suspect they all agree on?
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Post Post #424 (ISO) » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:33 am

Post by EspeciallyTheLies »

MS was the only one to jump on it.
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