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Post Post #550 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:09 pm

Post by Who »

FakeGod wrote:sounds like we're having a good ol' pvp in the sewers

In a one on one (No coyote) fight where we both start at full HP and roll initiative to determine who goes first, I estimate that I would have somewhere in between 50% and 70% chance of winning.
If I get pissed off and attack him after he's just killed a goblin but we're both not at full HP, I estimate that I would win. (This assumes that only he and Coyote are on his side)
If the party gets divided and a large fight erupts, it depends on who's on what side.

In post 930, Varsoon wrote:Do you give a murderous criminal a death sentence?
Why privilege the goblin?
Such curs are known to lie when put to the sword. We have proof that it tried to take our lives just prior to this, and that it has supported kidnapping and murder in the past.
That's justification enough.

...but yeah if anyone casts 'detect evil' they will see that the Goblin, is, in fact, an evil being. If it was simply doing good and was misunderstood in its acts, THE MAGICK OF THE GODS WOULD NOT DIVINE IT AN EVIL BEING.

Murdering the criminal won't bring the victim back, what's the point in causing another needless death?
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Post Post #551 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:13 pm

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In our world, it's problematic, but in the world of Dungeons and Dragons...

Edgar would stand by punishing the criminal as there is nothing to stop them from simply repeating the crime. For literal creatures of evil that feed on humanity and murder for sport, the only solution is death.
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Post Post #552 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:20 pm

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Actually I'm definitely overestimating my chances.

Now I really want to know who would win. I suggest we fight over who gets the Gloves of Dex. 1v1 combat.

Varsoon wrote:In our world, it's problematic, but in the world of Dungeons and Dragons...

Edgar would stand by punishing the criminal as there is nothing to stop them from simply repeating the crime. For literal creatures of evil that feed on humanity and murder for sport, the only solution is death.

There will always be more goblins. Killing them won't make a dent in the impact. If, on the other hand, you kick their asses then demand that their species as a whole surrenders and agrees to peace, humans stop dying.
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Post Post #553 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:35 pm

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"You clearly weren't around for the Goblin riots of '87."
Well, that's the nature of evil. It can never be truly banished. This is why good must not falter, and must stand to champion against it every time.
We can do it your way. We can approach the goblins peacefully and ask to negotiate. When they try to slit our throats in our sleep or pillage our villages, will that be enough to justify a crusade against their ilk? If I'm wrong, mark me wrong, but evil can not be negotiated with. Evil only knows bargains, which only beget more evil. There is no peaceful resolution. Your solutions work for a being capable of reform, but these are literally evil creatures. They aren't evil-as-defined-by-society, no, that'd just make them chaotic. They are literally evil, as in, predisposed to cruelty, subterfuge, lies, and unjustifiable violence.
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Post Post #554 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:55 pm

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In post 935, Varsoon wrote:They aren't evil-as-defined-by-society, no, that'd just make them chaotic. They are literally evil, as in, predisposed to cruelty, subterfuge, lies, and unjustifiable violence.

^Note that this was said by a good character.

"You clearly weren't around for the Goblin riots of '87."
Well, that's the nature of evil. It can never be truly banished. This is why good must not falter, and must stand to champion against it every time.
We can do it your way. We can approach the goblins peacefully and ask to negotiate. When they try to slit our throats in our sleep or pillage our villages, will that be enough to justify a crusade against their ilk? If I'm wrong, mark me wrong, but evil can not be negotiated with. Evil only knows bargains, which only beget more evil. There is no peaceful resolution. Your solutions work for a being capable of reform, but these are literally evil creatures.

When they try to slit our throats or pillage our villages, yes, go and wage war against them. Then, when a few survivors throw themselves at our feet and beg for mercy, grant it to them (Provided there are few enough, otherwise kill some percentage of them), and negotiate peace. If they keep violating treaties, then, and only then, should you mercilessly murder them. Also I still advocate taking prisoners because you can enslave said prisoners.
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Post Post #555 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:13 pm

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Post Post #556 (ISO) » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:07 am

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Fight the GOOD fight Edgar.
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Post Post #557 (ISO) » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:49 pm

Post by FakeGod »

Breakdown of D&D Classes:


Spoiler: From PHB
Barbarian


This is a class defined by a four letter word.
RAGE
Because upgrade to rage comes so late in the class (lv 11), Barbarian is generally served better as a level 1 dip for the access to rage, and pounce (which is gotten by trading in your fast movement, Lion totem PHB2) There are some very nice rage-related feats, them being Extra Rage, Instantaneous Rage, and Mad Foam Rager. Choose wisely, since Barbarians are starved for feats.


Bard


The best "5th member" of the party, so claimed by the Wizards of the Coast. It's not really a jack of all trades as advertised (rogues do it much better), but they do get some bard-only abilities that can be argued to be worth putting levels in this class, namely, access to Diplomacy and UMD, and Bard Only spells like Glibness and Lesser Confusion. It's also notably only arcane caster to be able to heal. (albeit very weak heals) Bardic knowledge can serve as poor man's knowledge checks if rest of the party lacks a Knowledge maxer.


Cleric


Easily the second strongest class in the game, quite possibly the first. The class has access to some of the best buffs and heals in the game, and with the domains, it offers quite a diverse set of different focuses. Dipping cleric levels is generally for access to turn undead (to fuel divine feats). There are also lots of diverse offensive options in forms of touch spells. Divine metamagic feat (from Complete Divine) really drives the caster Cleric build, in basically allowing clerics to utilize metamagic without bumping them into very high level spell slots. Ability to cast in heavy armor also never hurts.


Druid


Three totems of power for druids are: Spellcasting, Wild Shape, and Animal Companion. Druid spell list isn't as strong as Cleric's, focusing more on auxiliary buffs and Damage-Over-Time offensive spells. Notably, they get Flame Strike 1 spell level earlier than clerics, which is rather important distinction. Wild Shape lets you dump your physical stats and still be able to participate in melee, (although your damage/AC will be rather subpar compared to a dedicated front liner), and your animal companion is a strong combatant on its own right. Druids do get a decent selection of healing and removing debuffs, although not as many as clerics do.


Fighter


Many people consider this class as a 2-level dip class, for the extra feats and martial weapon proficiency. It isn't too hard to go pure fighter and build a decent frontliner, and then work on different styles of combat as you reach mid levels and max out on feats in your original combat focus feat tree.


Monk


Wizards of the Coast envisioned Monks to be acrobatic, hard-to-lock-down combatants that can maneuver around the thick of melee to get to enemy back lines and take them down in a blink of an eye. In practice, monks lack the AC/HP/Melee DPS to actually do any of that. They do get decent saves, and they're very independent of items. They also do have an advantage over the other classes in niche situations, like if everyone got arrested and their items were taken away, or in grapples.


Paladin


The third primary combat class from the PHB. Paladins suffer from MAD (multiple ability dependence), and it often leads to series of 14s and 12s across their ability scores, resulting in a fighter-y thing that has worse combat stats overall. You do get to heal (little bit), have decent saves, and access to turn undead, which you probably will use to fuel divine feats. Unfortunately, paladins are starved of feats, and they are difficult to multiclass.


Ranger


The fourth and last combat class from the PHB. Rangers are unfortunately locked into one of the two subpar fighting styles: Archery and Two Weapon Fighting. Both styles suffer from lack of DPS, and dependence on multiple attacks per turn, forcing you into full round actions and making the style ineffective against monsters with Damage Reduction. They also suffer from MAD somewhat, which usually results in a lower Con stat than Fighters/Barbarians. Rangers do boast a big skill point pool and a diverse range of skills.


Rogue


The best skillmonkey class from the PHB, and quite possibly in the game. Rogues have access to the widest range of skill set and a fantastic skill points pool. They're also quite dangerous in combat, particularly two-weapon users, who can outDPS a raging barbarian power attacking with a two-handed weapon, given that certain conditions are met. They do suffer against anything that isn't sneak attackable, but by sacrificing trap sense for Death's Ruin, you gain the ability to sneak attack undeads. (albeit only half damage), which is by far the largest creature group in the "immune to sneak attack" monsters. They are also easily multiclassed, which is good, since they are quite starved for feats. Rogue/Fighter can be a very effective "frontliner".


Sorcerer


Wizard spell list is considered to be the best in the game, and Sorcerers have access to it. (limited access) This already makes them incredibly dangerous, if little bit predictable. They can go all-offense and play as party's artillery, or something else. There are many different paths sorcerers can take. They do suffer from low-skill point pool and are starved for feats. And if anything serious reaches them in combat, they usually drop in one turn.


Wizard


Wizard spell list is the best in the game, and Wizards can infinitely expand their spellbooks by buying scrolls and writing them into their spellbooks. This makes them the strongest class in the game, and they will always be able to beat another class given that they have the right spells prepared. They have one of the lowest number of spells per day, which really emphasizes having the exactly right spell prepared, which can very very tricky. As a primary Int caster, their skill points pool is deceptively high, and they are often able to have many of the Knowledges maxed for the party. In addition, they are not as feat starved as sorcerers are, which lets them gain access to some complicated metamagic builds or item creation feats.


Spoiler: From PHB II
Beguiler


Basically a rogue/sorcerer that can only cast illusions and enchantments. It has all of the important buffs and debuffs of the wizard spell list, as well as a decent number of utility spells. The class also has a sizable skill point pool/selection, making this class one of the best utility mages in the game. Don't expect to do any sort of damage with these class however.


Dragon Shaman


Imagine a cleric without spells and heavy armor. That is what essentially dragon shaman is, with auras, stat boosts, and a breath weapon added in. Fairly utility class, but not being a primary caster or a rogue really limits this class's potential.


Duskblade


Magic swordsman. Essentially a fighter/sorcerer that is able to both cast and swing a sword in the same turn. Coupled with Quick casts and a spell storing weapon, this leads to some of the highest burst damage attainable in this game being held by duskblades. A typical "nova" combo might be to prep a true strike for the auto hit, into a max power attack sword swing (2d6+20 ish), shocking grasp (5d6), spell-stored scorching ray (8d6), and a quick casted scorching ray (8d6), which is about 100.5 damage on average in a single turn. They also have access to number of low-level mobility spells and self-buffs, such as swift fly, swift invisibility, dimensional hop, and etc, rounding out the class.


Knight


Remove the Fighter's DPS for more tankiness, and you end up with a Knight. It's not a very strong class on its own, but it is the hardest class to kill in the game in straight combat, and they boast a number of potentially useful combat options, as well as a way to draw aggro, making them a decent frontliner in any party.
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Post Post #558 (ISO) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:00 am

Post by FakeGod »

Reminder that we're playing 7 hrs from this post

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Post Post #559 (ISO) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:07 am

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Post Post #560 (ISO) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:55 am

Post by T-Bone »

Count me a maybe
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Post Post #561 (ISO) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:18 am

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we start in 42 minutes
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Post Post #562 (ISO) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:44 am

Post by quadz08 »

I believe in you guys sorry I can't make it
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Post Post #563 (ISO) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:56 am

Post by FakeGod »

ok get on you fools
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Post Post #564 (ISO) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:36 pm

Post by Who »

Vague summary (Hana will post a more complete one):

Teela and Who3 fought some stuff, wiped them out, Caled joined them, they fought some more stuff, a wereratperson bit Who3, we all scrambled around madly for a cure, we eventually got it (Teela cast remove curse. Who3 was very grateful) we went back, fought some more stuff, met some people, almost got massacred by an undead horror, but escaped (Teela had to carry Who3 away from it because he had been paralyzed, again he was very grateful). We delivered the hat of one of the people we met to Dr. K, he insisted on coming with us if we went back there. (We went down a hole)
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Post Post #565 (ISO) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:39 pm

Post by caledfwitch »

i cant believe we made it out of there omg
must i have a gender.. is it not enough for me to simply b kinda hot sometimes

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Post Post #566 (ISO) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:52 pm

Post by Who »

In post 947, caledfwitch wrote:i cant believe we made it out of there omg

Given that the main thing it was doing to us was poisoning which fortitude saved against, it actually isn't that surprising looking back on it. Yes its speed and reflexes were terrifying, but all it was doing was trying to paralyze and Teela had enough fortitude save to be basically immune provided not too many checks were required, and given how it didn't attack you because you got away first, it actually does make sense that we made it out.

I'm glad we did go in, given how we made it out. We got xp, and also now know what it is and what it can do. When we do eventually go in, if we all drink antitoxin beforehand we get +5 on saving throws against poison, which makes the paralysis unlikely to affect us, we know that it has some method of seeing invisible things so we don't rely on that, and we know that it's insanely fast. We also know not to use things with reflex saves, and definitely not to maximize things which are totally negated by reflex saves.
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Post Post #567 (ISO) » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:56 pm

Post by Varsoon »

Aw, sounds cool.
Once again, had a lot on my plate.
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Post Post #568 (ISO) » Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:22 am

Post by FakeGod »

Looking back, there was a decent amount of non-combat interactions in the last session, and I think they worked out alright.

Maybe it is possible to do a real session, instead of just dungeoning smashing, in the limited time we have?
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Post Post #569 (ISO) » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:02 pm

Post by T-Bone »

I don't see why not
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Post Post #570 (ISO) » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:23 pm

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Because we don't/can't have continuity player-wise, it might take a bit of suspension of belief for the NPCs for any sort of plot to develop, because PCs are going to be magically appearing in and out.
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Post Post #571 (ISO) » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:38 pm

Post by T-Bone »

It's not magicks. We're like a guild and some times some PCs work and other don't.
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Post Post #572 (ISO) » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:49 pm

Post by FakeGod »

alright then

i'll write a real campaign after this one is done
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Post Post #573 (ISO) » Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:54 pm

Post by Varsoon »

<3
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Post Post #574 (ISO) » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:45 pm

Post by Brian Skies »

In post 953, T-Bone wrote:It's not magicks. We're like a guild and some times some PCs work and other don't.

I was going to suggest doing some of the non-combat interactions in the thread during the downtime between sessions, but I'm not sure how that would affect the main campain sessions themselves if they weren't resolved before hand. At the very least, it could still save some time.

I'm still off on Wednesday. :]

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