Mini 1700: Space Mafia (Game Over)

[Scorpious]

Stop twisting my words Slandaar. My issue was question avoidance in itself. I welcome any questions..

Side note. I would not support a frag lynch today.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Frag, can you take the time to actually put together readable posts in future. I'll try and edit to make sense of it but it would be nice if you did a bit of work on your end to.

And the point was?

I gave you the point. To gather knowledge on previous experience of someone's scum game. It's really not that difficult.

Ok, so what information have you gathered from my response?

Response wasnt just to you.

1

Obviously nothing since you have no previous experience with anyones scum game.

2

You're attempting to make this more then it is in hopes you'll get support on your terrible mislynch wagon you want to push on me.

3

1

Who else exactly was the response for?

I asked it towards Garmr as well. He said Slandaar knew his mafia playstyle so I asked him if he knew any of Slandaar's playstyles as well. No need to be so vain Victor. It's not always all about you.

None of that deals with the original question which was "what information have you gathered from my response?". If your saying my response was related to something asked towards Garmr, then that doesn't make sense.

2

Why in particular do you care about my knowledge of other player's scumgames? Why not ask this to other players? Why not ask about my experiences with others? And did you even bother reading my response to the question or just attempt to go on the attack?

I don't particularly care about your knowledge if you don't have any to provide obviously.

a

Wouldn't you want to know if someone knows someone else's playstyle especially if it's scum?

b

You seemed worried that I even brought the subject up. Defensive even to a degree.

c

This entire paragraph is bullshit from start to finish. I'll break it down:

a

You couldn't have known whether I had knowledge or not before you asked the questions, so this is irrelevant.

b

Sure, but you obviously didn't based upon your lack of follow up.

c

How have I been defensive? I am questioning your motivations, and your the one who is dragging this round in circles. I have given a clear answer to every question, unlike you. If I wanted to be defensive wouldn't I have just looks to stop this discussion at the first convenience.

3

You asked the question, almost immediately after I asked a near identical question in 869. Are you really going to keep denying that were was no relevance and the timing is coincidental?

Your 869 was what made me wonder if anyone knew someone else's mafia playstyle in the game were currently in. You asked if Garmr knew a Firebringer scum game. I expanded on the question & asked if Garmr had any experience period with someone in this game. Especially if that playstyle was scum. That question really could be imposed to anyone in the game. Period. Why is it when I expanded on the question, all of a sudden its a "pointless question". Wouldn't that make your question as well "pointless"?

Did I say it was a pointless question? No. What I did, quite simply, was ask why you asked me in 872 whether I had seen anyone's scumgame. The relevent part Garmr plays is that I asked him a very similar question and you threw it back at me.

Would anyone else agree that Slandaar's posts have officially crossed the fluff barrier? We get it dude,you think I'm scum,and you're wrong. Care to address anything else? Anything?

I don't know, I'm getting poor phone reception from all the tunneling that's going on here on d2. Victor & Doctor's poor tunnel on me & Slandaar's tunnel on you. Wouldn't it be a crazy world if they're both scum together & they're trying to force a town mislynch & counter with another town mislynch wagon.

What don't you like about Slandaar's case against Scorp?

As for Scorpious I've read him town as of late,

& think the ISO argument is weak at best.

I don't particularly like his wagon as I've already stated. I've also stated that I can't see myself supporting a wagon on him at anytime today unless something drastic occurs.

Right, this bolded part here is the only part here is really the only part I'm interested in. Expand it. Use whatever quotes, post numbers or whatever and say specificially what you think is weak the arguments.

Also Victor why did you chose to ignore my 794 post about you reassessing your read on me? You barely mentioned a d1 town read on me at all before you started tunneling me late d1 & now most of d2. Is there a particular reason you chose not to address this? Inquiring minds need to know.

I didn't ignore it. I didn't see any thing outstanding.

You complained I didn't reassess my reads. I gave you a counterexample (and yeah I deliberately picked you, it should be pretty clear why). You didn't like the counterexample because as far as I can tell it's not enough for me to reassess my reads, I need to reassess them constantly or something. I don't know what I need to address here. From where I'm sitting, it seems clear you locked down on the fact I don't reassess reads and me arguing with you probably won't achieve anything so.... what exactly do inquiring minds not get?

@Slandarr

- What outstanding questions are there for Scorpious?

[Slandaar]

Stop twisting my words Slandaar. My issue was question avoidance in itself. I welcome any questions..

Side note. I would not support a frag lynch today.

Yes, Yes, twisting words. Very clever. Who has been twisting words the last couple pages? ah yes, you.

You fail to answer my question. Why is this? I think that is called question avoidance.

[Scorpious]

What question Slandaar?

[Fraggernaut]

@Victor

And the point was?

Seems you're implying it's "pointless" here.

I already gave you a answer to your question. I said nothing cause that's what I got from your response, nothing. You obviously have no logic to provide. Not sure if you're choosing to just ignore what I've said cause I'm pretty sure everyone else can make out what I'm saying just fine it seems. Anyways it's a tired argument cause you'll continue on pretending I'm not providing anything to the game. I'm pretty sold on a Victor/Doctor scum team now. With a possibility of Slandaar on the outside looking in.

How did I not follow up? I expanded it & asked another right after.

Didn't see anything outstanding? That's your defense to basically shrug off the fact that you lied about reassessing reads before putting a horrible logic vote on me; in a attempt to mislynch town on a wagon you'll never get the support for. Seems legit.

As for the Scorpious Wagon.

Slandaar's scumreads as mentioned at the start of the day:
Scorpious.
GrayFoxxxx
HavingFitz

Total content produced today between the three: 0.

That, my friends, is one huge coincidence. Gray has failed to produce anything of worth after making numerous promises to do so. Scorpious is just not doing anything and Fitz has declared VLA after doing pretty much nothing.

I suggest everyone just pick one of them and vote

Slandaar has Scorpious, Gray & HavingFitz on the top of his scum list at the beginning of the day due to his belief they're not producing anything to the game. Seems to be a trend with Slandaar. Out of those three Scorpious has at least been activity participating in the game so I found it weird that Slandaar went after Scorpious instead of Gray who still hasn't really provided anything, or HavingFitz who has once again went on V/LA. In fact Slandaar & Doctor have both seemed to ignore the fact that both Gray & HavingFitz have been the lurkiest in day 2, outside of a few questions & votes leading nowhere. Despite Doctor's horrible claim of "active lurking" directed towards myself.

Also seems like a cheap cop out when they night kill one of the two to leave Scorpious or myself or even Deas alive in d3 to cause confusion.

I think Scorpious is scum. Deas made a good point; Scorp's question was quite pointless. Really didn't like the ISO nonsense either.

VOTE: Scorpious

Vahlen is obviously town (unrelated but still, people voting him )

So essentially if anyone ever ISOs someone they're instantly scum? Kind of like saying the word town to describe yourself makes you scum too huh? I don't like this logic at all. ISOing is a good way to get reads & review other players playestyle throughout the game. I believe the only one who wouldn't use ISOs would be scum who would already know who's town in this game.

Gray!

Would you like to vote Scorpious with me?

This was strange as well. Why did Slandaar finally out of the blue try to convince Gray to vote the Scorpious wagon? Especially when he was one of his top scum reads at the beginnjng of the day & they had no substantial interactions after a early day tunnel? This wagon just reeks of scumminess.

Do you think with about 2 days till deadline you should need to ISO the LEADING WAGON to produce some thoughts on them? I mean it's not just that you ISO'ed but you had to be prompted to ISO them not just do it yourself. Seems kind of an important thing to do to me if you are town.

Again with the ISO logic.

Yeah, except I don't see anyone 'buying into it' so you are just writing words with no factual basis.

I asked by 'biggest scum read from D1 to vote you' because I want to see how Gray reacts and now explains his choice. This is called... scumhunting.

The cheap cop out is on. He wanted Gray to vote for "reactions". I don't buy it. Seems like a easy way to make Gray the NK & ride the town cred for the rest of the game as scum guised under the impression that you were simply trying to scum hunt.

In regards to post #774. Why do you believe it unlikely that someone who needs to ISO someone, even if they're the leading wagon, wouldn't be done by town? If you're a movie star on a big set & someone hands you a full script. Are you not going to have to go back & look at things? This game has had 800+ posts & 30+ pages in it already throughout two days. I sure as hell don't remember everything that was said by every single person.

Also it kinda makes you look scummy.

Come on Fire join the wagon. You know it makes sense.

Slandaar reaching here to get anyone to support his wagon. Maybe he knows it won't get the support it needs for a mislynch.

VOTE: Firebringer

You can strawman arguments and refuse to scumhunt, that doesn't make you any less scummy.

Vahlen, you are town, it is obvious.

I am town.
Deas is town.
Garmr is town.

The wagon on Scorpious is glorious at present. Make it even better.

Also Deas is really good at the scumhunting so you should sheep him. You know it makes sense

Oh and Red who is dead wanted to lynch Scorpious. There is a reasonable chance he saved you last night so you should at least give him one vote.

He even goes as far as trying to play to emotions.

We need the lurker crew to show up and vote Scorpious. I can tell Doctor won't be convinced, Gray is never going to vote his buddy and Fragger is trying to lynch Doctor so yeah...

Yolo, Fitz, Victor you three need to help with this glorious scorpious wagon. Fitz you in particular I have high hopes for.

The desperation sinks in for Slandaar's wagon...

After HavingFitz places a vote elsewhere.

Also, Fitz, if you think both Deas and I are town you should probably vote Scorpious. Especially considering your current read on him.

I dislike your post immensely.

Any town player in Fitz's position who has their 3rd scumread as Scorp votes Scorp. His experience with me should make my opinion hold a lot of weight and then the paragon also is voting the exact same place. He townreads both, scumreads Scorp to some degree but votes elsewhere.

Makes no sense from town so Fitz is scum.

What do I have to do to get you clowns to vote Scorpious?

The ship is sinking...iceberg straight ahead!

He even turns on his ole buddy Doctor.

We could also flashwagon Fraggernaut or DeasVail, since I'm likely to be dead tonight.

Your refusal to vote Scorpious makes that incredibly unlikely. You are being useless and your shots will be bad so there is approximately zero chance you get shot tonight.

Overall this wagon is flawed. There's no support outside of Slandaar's inner circle. Also I ISO'ed this. That on top of saying town town town town town. One of your mislynch wagons may have hope & a leg to stand on.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar has Scorpious, Gray & HavingFitz on the top of his scum list at the beginning of the day due to his belief they're not producing anything to the game.

This is untrue.

I had them at the top of my list for other reasons. Later in the day they hadn't posted any content and I commented on this.

Seems to be a trend with Slandaar. Out of those three Scorpious has at least been activity participating in the game so I found it weird that Slandaar went after Scorpious instead of Gray who still hasn't really provided anything, or HavingFitz who has once again went on V/LA. In fact Slandaar & Doctor have both seemed to ignore the fact that both Gray & HavingFitz have been the lurkiest in day 2, outside of a few questions & votes leading nowhere. Despite Doctor's horrible claim of "active lurking" directed towards myself.

What actual scumhunting has Scorpious done apart from this junk 'didn't answer questions!!!'?
(requires you to show me in his ISO)

Also seems like a cheap cop out when they night kill one of the two to leave Scorpious or myself or even Deas alive in d3 to cause confusion.

Makes no sense.

So essentially if anyone ever ISOs someone they're instantly scum?

Again, very clearly, not what I actually said. It is the circumstances in which he did it.

Kind of like saying the word town to describe yourself makes you scum too huh? I don't like this logic at all.

It's like you are making a point, yet, I never said this.

This was strange as well. Why did Slandaar finally out of the blue try to convince Gray to vote the Scorpious wagon? Especially when he was one of his top scum reads at the beginnjng of the day & they had no substantial interactions after a early day tunnel? This wagon just reeks of scumminess.

As explained already: to see how Grey would react.

Again with the ISO logic.

Yes, a clarification, which should have made you realize your earlier comments were terrible.

The cheap cop out is on. He wanted Gray to vote for "reactions". I don't buy it. Seems like a easy way to make Gray the NK & ride the town cred for the rest of the game as scum guised under the impression that you were simply trying to scum hunt.

Why is Gray the nk when he votes Scorpious?

This is very strange Fraggernaut.

Slandaar reaching here to get anyone to support his wagon. Maybe he knows it won't get the support it needs for a mislynch.

No he is scum and it will get the support it needs, don't you worry my friend.

He even goes as far as trying to play to emotions.

The issue with that is?

After HavingFitz places a vote elsewhere.

Also, Fitz, if you think both Deas and I are town you should probably vote Scorpious. Especially considering your current read on him.

I dislike your post immensely.

Yeah, Fitz is scum. What is the issue with my post?

He even turns on his ole buddy Doctor.

He was never my buddy.

Overall this wagon is flawed. There's no support outside of Slandaar's inner circle. Also I ISO'ed this. That on top of saying town town town town town. One of your mislynch wagons may have hope & a leg to stand on.

I didn't say town town town anything. You appear to have some sort of mistaken identity going on here.

[Fraggernaut]

No mistaken identity here. I still see you in a scum world with Doctor or Victor. Therefore your counter wagon mislynch is the "Robin" to Victor's "Batman" poor attempt to push a mislynch on me. Get the connection here?

As for Gray. Why is it strange? In a world where Doctor/Victor or yourself are scum, you could NK Gray in the night & claim the town credit & ride it to the end. You could WIFOM it that you were simply fishing for a interaction, when Gray flips town (If that's the case) & nullify your scum read on him.

[Firebringer]

The Tvt fight here is entertaining.

Can we get in scorp now pls?

[Fraggernaut]

Disclaimer: Meta Inbound. Did a little investigative work & found a game completed that both Slandaar & HavingFitz were a part of. It's eery how polar opposite their metas are this game from that particular game. In that game HavingFitz was full blown try-hard, giving reads & scum hunting. He was questioning everyone & actually contributed quite a lot to the game. He was a mafia goon.

On the other hand you have Slandaar. In that particular game he was kind of on the defensive throughout the first day. He never pushed like he is in this game & his tone of posting was so different. In that game he seemed more relaxed, he seemed comfortable. This game he does not. His push on Scorpious seems so forced. In that game Slandaar flipped town cop as he was lynched d1.

Sure meta isn't a good lynching tool but it helps to see inconsistencies in one's playstyle from one alignment to the other I believe.

The game I'm talking about is Mini 1653.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6994049

[Doctor Vahlen]

We aren't lynching Scorpious unless all three scums get on the wagon. Scorpious's play has been textbook noob town IMO.

There's three available choices if you want to work together Slandaar.

[1baldeagle1]

spicer1209 replaces yoloswag123. Welcome!

[spicer1209]

Hello people. Ill start reading here pretty quick but does any one have a good place to start so I dont have to go through pages of useless bullshit?

[GrayFoxxxx]

As for Gray. Why is it strange? In a world where Doctor/Victor or yourself are scum, you could NK Gray in the night & claim the town credit & ride it to the end. You could WIFOM it that you were simply fishing for a interaction, when Gray flips town (If that's the case) & nullify your scum read on him.

I don't know about this. It's a real stretch. It's not like they have me as hard town. (That I'm aware of)

[GrayFoxxxx]

Hello people. Ill start reading here pretty quick but does any one have a good place to start so I dont have to go through pages of useless bullshit?

Well scorp is a kind of a big deal right now

[spicer1209]

Hello people. Ill start reading here pretty quick but does any one have a good place to start so I dont have to go through pages of useless bullshit?

Well scorp is a kind of a big deal right now

oh shit you are here....well I guess Ill start tunneling you then

[GrayFoxxxx]

Hello people. Ill start reading here pretty quick but does any one have a good place to start so I dont have to go through pages of useless bullshit?

Well scorp is a kind of a big deal right now

oh shit you are here....well I guess Ill start tunneling you then

I get this reference.

[Doctor Vahlen]

Spicer, vote Flagger, Fire or Deas please. Those are the scums.

[DeasVail]

Are you doing anything else but championing my lynch..

You make it sound like this is a problem?

Would anyone else agree that Slandaar's posts have officially crossed the fluff barrier?

I get it, Slandaar's posts are all about wanting to lynch you and you don't like that. However, why downplay his posting by calling it fluff? And let's assume he really does think you're scum and wants to lynch you. Is there anything scummy about him trying to make that happen?

& think the ISO argument is weak at best.

The ISO argument is not really among my reasons for wanting to lynch him.

Frag, if Slandaar is scum, why is it so important that Scorpious is lynched and not someone else?

On the other hand you have Slandaar. In that particular game he was kind of on the defensive throughout the first day. He never pushed like he is in this game & his tone of posting was so different. In that game he seemed more relaxed, he seemed comfortable. This game he does not. His push on Scorpious seems so forced. In that game Slandaar flipped town cop as he was lynched d1.

Could the fact that he was a town cop there explain the difference in playstyle?

Scorpious's play has been textbook noob town IMO.

Just so you know, this doesn't do anything for me, but I think you knew that.

[DeasVail]

Oh yeah and I'm more cool with actually lynching Scorpious (as opposed to cheerleading the wagon) than I was, so Fitz can wait.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor

And the point was?

Seems you're implying it's "pointless" here.

No, I was asking why you did it. Even you made the mistake the first time, I repeated asked you what you trying acheieve in multiple ways at this point so I don't know what else to add.

I already gave you a answer to your question. I said nothing cause that's what I got from your response, nothing. You obviously have no logic to provide. Not sure if you're choosing to just ignore what I've said cause I'm pretty sure everyone else can make out what I'm saying just fine it seems. Anyways it's a tired argument cause you'll continue on pretending I'm not providing anything to the game. I'm pretty sold on a Victor/Doctor scum team now. With a possibility of Slandaar on the outside looking in.

Again I can't really say any more without going the full hog and explain how the linearity of time works, which is pointless because I don't think your completely stupid, simply being willfully obtuse here.

How did I not follow up? I expanded it & asked another right after.

You see how I actually quoted the part I was responding to. That's so people know what I'm talking about. I can't work out what this is related to because it's a one line paragraph floating in the middle of nowhere. As such I'm lost at what you are trying to say.

Didn't see anything outstanding? That's your defense to basically shrug off the fact that you lied about reassessing reads before putting a horrible logic vote on me; in a attempt to mislynch town on a wagon you'll never get the support for. Seems legit.

Except I didn't lie, but apparently this is another point your going to be stubborn on and I'm wasting more time trying to convince you otherwise.

Also, I didn't shrug anything off. Giving you didn't respond to half my post, I guess I can take that as you "shrug off the fact that you lied" right?

I'll deal with the rest after some coffee and breakfast.

[Firebringer]

Hello people. Ill start reading here pretty quick but does any one have a good place to start so I dont have to go through pages of useless bullshit?

The two major wagons are me and scorpions. I would start there.

There was some fighting between Doctorv and frag you might want to examine also later.

[Slandaar]

No mistaken identity here. I still see you in a scum world with Doctor or Victor.

Well go and get the quote then.

Therefore your counter wagon mislynch is the "Robin" to Victor's "Batman" poor attempt to push a mislynch on me. Get the connection here?

Nope. I wasn't trying to push a lynch on you simply responding to your nonsense. What is the issue with this? you seem very nervous.

As for Gray. Why is it strange? In a world where Doctor/Victor or yourself are scum, you could NK Gray in the night & claim the town credit & ride it to the end.

So, I get towncred when Gray votes Scorpious do I? That is very interesting.

You could WIFOM it that you were simply fishing for a interaction, when Gray flips town (If that's the case) & nullify your scum read on him.

What you are saying is pointless.

Show me all of Scorpious' scumhunting I see you forgot to do that.

[Slandaar]

On the other hand you have Slandaar. In that particular game he was kind of on the defensive throughout the first day. He never pushed like he is in this game & his tone of posting was so different. In that game he seemed more relaxed, he seemed comfortable.

Are you joking?

Did you read all the posts or just RVS? maybe compare that to here....

This game he does not. His push on Scorpious seems so forced. In that game Slandaar flipped town cop as he was lynched d1.

Yes, of course I did. No wait, I got shot n1 for being right. Amazing.

[Garmr]

I'm pretty happy sheeping slandaar on this one.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Garmr

- You also sheeped the Blocky wagon and that didn't go well. The Day has time left for options other than Scorp/Fire, so tell me, who are your top three scumreads and why?