Micro 514: Dealing With Dragons Mafia (Game Over)

[goodmorning]

'Well,' said the frog,' what are you going to do about it?'
'Marrying Therandil? I don't know. I've tried talking to my parents, but they won't listen, and neither will Therandil.'
'I didn't ask what you'd

said

about it,' the frog snapped. 'Nine times out of ten, talking is a way of avoiding doing things.'

Votecount 1.5

The Betting Pool [L-2] - Firebringer, Wisdom, Axxle

Wisdom [L-3] - GrayFoxxxx, The Betting Pool
Elbirn [L-4] - shaddowez
Axxle [L-4] - Vedith
GrayFoxxxx [L-4] - kyndy101

Not Voting [1] - Elbirn

With 9 alive, it takes

5

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2015-08-22 22:00:00).

[Vedith]

Another 2 pages where nothing was accomplished.

@BP - Would you like to go into detail more about Wisdom? I thought that he ended the last bickering with Gray being town, not obvious scum. Your last post indicates that Wisdom is trying to push on Gray (Even though he's not him him).
You also say that Gray has several reasons to come across as town for you. Anything else than him targeting Wisdom when he could target an easier target?

[The Betting Pool]

vedith it concerns me how you translated some of my posts...

1. my read of wisdom is not obvscum, I'm not that cocky day 1 on a veteran player.
2. gray gave several reasons in that interaction to come across as town, and I stated them because that was the question posed to me. He has done very little else then bicker with wisdom for me to read so how could I have anything else?

what is the meaning of this sentence?

Your last post indicates that Wisdom is trying to push on Gray (Even though he's not him him).

[The Betting Pool]

-bunny

[Vedith]

I didn't say you see him being obvious scum. I was saying when Wisdom said Gray is obvious scum and then he changed it. The comment you said is this "wisdom comes off as scum for trying to write gray off as obvscum or a VI"
Now, Wisdom al ready said that he thinks Gray is town, right? Or did I miss something?

Several reasons means more than 2 - You only gave 1... Don't get me wrong. I get a town vibe from them both because they keep arguing over pointless things.

And that quote should have said - Your last post indicates that Wisdom is pushing on Gray as scum (Even though his vote isn't on him)

[Elbirn]

I highly doubt you are going to catch wisdom for being forced or over the top.

-bunny

What do you think of Gray and wisdom's exchange?

gray comes off as town to me for several reasons. scum gray would be foolish to attack town wisdom this early with a weak argument, or at the very least backed off quickly and not engage as he did. what's the scum motivation for going after the hardest mislynch on the field? he had his choice of easier wagons.

wisdom comes off as scum for trying to write gray off as obvscum or a VI, giving him a "last chance" to back off, and being dismissive (this last bit may be alignment neutral for wisdom).

^ did he tho? What other options for easy wagons did he have?

You think scum would not back off of a weak wagon quickly? Cuz that sounds like scum to me

Alright I'm here and sober let's do this

So, betting. I would say that I would expect scum to be more likely to quickly back off of a wagon when they see that there isn't support for it. Your conclusion seems to be the opposite. Why do you feel this makes gray town?

[Elbirn]

Liking Elbirn now

What changed?

[Elbirn]

ill try for one last time even though I know it's for naught

235 - Elbirn asks Betting for his reads on me and you.
239 - Betting gives the reads, including townreading you for X,Y,Z reasons.
240 - Elbirn argues that X,Y,Z reasons should normally lead Betting to believe you are scum, not town.
242/244 - You misunderstand that as Elbirn arguing/implying you are scum.
246/248 - Elbirn tries to clear up the misunderstanding, explaining that he was questioning Betting about the read on you and the oddities around it, not giving his own read on you. He asks if that makes sense, namely if you now understand, if the misunderstanding was cleared
249 up to now - You misunderstand that as Elbirn asking you if you believe Betting should scumread you.

This is correct, and I apologize for any misunderstanding gray. My questions were directed to betting, and then I tried to clear it up with you.

[GrayFoxxxx]

ill try for one last time even though I know it's for naught

235 - Elbirn asks Betting for his reads on me and you.
239 - Betting gives the reads, including townreading you for X,Y,Z reasons.
240 - Elbirn argues that X,Y,Z reasons should normally lead Betting to believe you are scum, not town.
242/244 - You misunderstand that as Elbirn arguing/implying you are scum.
246/248 - Elbirn tries to clear up the misunderstanding, explaining that he was questioning Betting about the read on you and the oddities around it, not giving his own read on you. He asks if that makes sense, namely if you now understand, if the misunderstanding was cleared
249 up to now - You misunderstand that as Elbirn asking you if you believe Betting should scumread you.

This is correct, and I apologize for any misunderstanding gray. My questions were directed to betting, and then I tried to clear it up with you.

It's cool, I've drunk posted unintelligible gibberish before.
Now fucking wisdom is right for the wrong reasons.

[kyndy101]

Bluh ok well Gray just sounds like dumb town so
UNVOTE: Gray


Not sure who to vote, will have to ISO everyone and decide

[GrayFoxxxx]

Bluh ok well Gray just sounds like dumb town so
UNVOTE: Gray


Not sure who to vote, will have to ISO everyone and decide

Look at wisdum extra close

[Wisdom]

Liking Elbirn now

What changed?

I liked your posts to betting

What do you think about axxle? Right now poe gives me betting and axxle but axxle's vote is complicating that

[shaddowez]

@shaddowez - What's the main difference in Firebringer pushing to Elbirn pushing?

Less frequency, as well as less pushiness(?) in his posts. While there was a "You should follow me" vibe in Firebringer's post, it wasn't the cocky attitude of "I know that so-and-so is scum" that I was reading from Elbirn's.

Rereading your argument, I just don't get it. All people have to do is ask what he sees and he's in a shitty situation.

I don't disagree. That means people have to ask, and considering how early it was there's going to be little fallout from a crappy read.

Is it me, or does Vedith look like he's going for straw man arguments? He's attempting to point suspicion for a specific reason while using supporting evidence of different topics.

Ugh, that Wisdom v Gray debate...or those, since there were technically multiples....the frustration really makes me want to feel like they're TvT, but my gut says it's not.

Gray is actually doing the exact thing that he keeps accusing Wisdom of doing - his main argument against Wisdom is that Wis just keeps restating things and giving facts that aren't active scumhunting; all Gray is doing is rehashing the same arguments against Wisdom over and over again. He's also tied up in the semantics argument, and isn't interacting with anybody else or trying to progress the game in any meaningful manner.

Liking Elbirn more with his recent posting, so I'm going to do this instead:
VOTE: Gray

[Wisdom]

nah gray is town

Thoughts on betting and axxle?

[shaddowez]

Axxle's got active lurking going on, which has me leaning scum on him, but would really like to actually see him interact more before giving a full read (though if he continues to just active lurk, my read will continue to downgrade to full on scum).

Currently reading betting, will get back to you shortly.

[shaddowez]

Right now I've got a null read, leaning town on betting - weakish vote on me, but that has to be taken with a grain of salt, since, well, it's on me so of course I'm going to not like it. They're answering questions, but then they bring up discussing the list with Elbirn in 221 which they don't do until 239, though I do like the post. I also like 239 and 302. I'd like to see more from them to get a better read.

[Firebringer]

Right now I feel betting isn't contributing much and piggy backing other peoples reads.
I don't think said anything trim their own.

[Firebringer]

I doth know how I feel about shadow or gray wagons.

[GrayFoxxxx]

and isn't interacting with anybody else or trying to progress the game in any meaningful manner.

Incorrect.

[kyndy101]

and isn't interacting with anybody else or trying to progress the game in any meaningful manner.

Incorrect.

Actually yes, it's true.

[GrayFoxxxx]

and isn't interacting with anybody else or trying to progress the game in any meaningful manner.

Incorrect.

Actually yes, it's true.

I disagree.

[Elbirn]

Liking Elbirn now

What changed?

I liked your posts to betting

What do you think about axxle? Right now poe gives me betting and axxle but axxle's vote is complicating that

Axxles a good lynch. Reading his iso he hasn't done really anything. I know you gave him some townie points for reading into kyndys games, but the way I read it, he doesn't end up making a solid stance either way? He's like "we'll she could be newb scum, she doesn't have scum experience" (implying that she could have felt pressure and I was right) and "but the one time she was scum she did claim pr" (distancing himself from his previous statement by sowing doubt)

It reads like he's testing the waters for a lynch but he's afraid to jump in

[Elbirn]

I did, she has played some scum games.

She has also got lynched a few times as town, which would explain the preemptive claim somewhat

Two greater idea type mafias, and one we need a fifth, I'm not entirely sure that counts as experience. The one time she felt the need to fakeclaim though, she did claim a power role.

Yo yo y fellas.

I like how my wagon is doing, who is the leader now elbirn?!?!?

Anyways L-2 is fine for now.

I don't think kyndy over reacted to votes on her btw.

So u don't agree with this newb scum or newb town w/e discussion going on.

Still me, since your wagon isn't on scum

I mean, your wagon isn't on scum right now either.

Is firebringer always this trolly?

....unless that last part is him saying kyndy town, even tho I switched over to voting vedith at this time

Idk fuck it he's still scum

VOTE: Axxle

[Elbirn]

I wish you guys talked more ;_;

and isn't interacting with anybody else or trying to progress the game in any meaningful manner.

Incorrect.

Actually yes, it's true.

I disagree.

Gray
Talk to me about your reads
What do you think
What do you ~feel~

[Axxle]

Liking Elbirn now

What changed?

I liked your posts to betting

What do you think about axxle? Right now poe gives me betting and axxle but axxle's vote is complicating that

Axxles a good lynch. Reading his iso he hasn't done really anything. I know you gave him some townie points for reading into kyndys games, but the way I read it, he doesn't end up making a solid stance either way? He's like "we'll she could be newb scum, she doesn't have scum experience" (implying that she could have felt pressure and I was right) and "but the one time she was scum she did claim pr" (distancing himself from his previous statement by sowing doubt)

It reads like he's testing the waters for a lynch but he's afraid to jump in

Well I feel like she's more likely town fwiw