In post 297, shaddowez wrote:Mala, I know you don't have much reason to trust me, but sheep me on this...I'll explain tomorrow if I'm alive.
are you 100% sure scorpious is scum?
In post 297, shaddowez wrote:Mala, I know you don't have much reason to trust me, but sheep me on this...I'll explain tomorrow if I'm alive.
In post 300, catboi wrote:In post 297, shaddowez wrote:Mala, I know you don't have much reason to trust me, but sheep me on this...I'll explain tomorrow if I'm alive.
are you 100% sure scorpious is scum?
In post 297, shaddowez wrote:Mala, I know you don't have much reason to trust me, but sheep me on this...I'll explain tomorrow if I'm alive.
In post 97, Malakittens wrote:I have to look at something with Maxous and I'll get back to you on that.
In post 297, shaddowez wrote:Mala, I know you don't have much reason to trust me, but sheep me on this...I'll explain tomorrow if I'm alive.
catboi (2) , elusive, Malakittens
In post 303, elusive wrote:Were you? You don't seem wary of it from the beginning. In fact a look at your ISO shows that you agree with Grib at one point and also find catboi to be scummy.
In post 203, Scorpious wrote:@Radja,Grib seems very reliant on meta reads and past game experiences. His comment on elusive having a "thing"to correctly read her as town was a very slight ping to me. also not quite sure how he in fact looks at the miller claim. He calls doing it scummy,yet decides to let things play out regarding catboi's behavior. I really don't know what to think about that..
@grib,has catboi's behavior pushed you one way or another?
In post 314, elusive wrote:Grib replaced site wide so anyone trying to pin scum on that is atrocious.
In post 314, elusive wrote:Grib replaced site wide so anyone trying to pin scum on that is atrocious.
catboi's reads are nonsense and utterly so. "Feel strongly on elu-scum but absolutely think Scorpious should be the vote today."
So, again not voting your strongest scum read? Why?
In post 294, catboi wrote:out of curiosity, decided to search the completed mini normal games for games that included a miller, to see the town power role composition:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - miller, nurse, tracker, watcher, hermit
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - miller, watcher, jailkeeper, even night vig
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - miller, cop
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - neigbor miller, neighbor doc, cop, 2-shot tracker
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - miller, 2-shot vig, even night jailkeeper, cop
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - miller, cop, two-shot vig, neighborizer
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - miller JOAT, odd night cop, bodyguard, 2x town neighbors
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - miller, 2 shot VIG, JOAT, Bulletproof
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - miller, cop, doctor, 1-shot BP, neighbor
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - miller, odd-night vig, 2-shot watcher
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - miller, cop, tracker, non-consecutive vig
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... lit=miller - miller, cop, doctor
So a miller being in the setup makes it likely but not guaranteed that there's a cop role, but it definitely doesn't mean town can't have another investigative role. I don't see the claims as inherently contradicting whatsoever and I'm wary of those who use that logic
In post 304, catboi wrote:
Town
superbowl9- I don't know, someone sticking a box in his post #135where he asks everyone "Why" just feels strangely genuine, like he's asking for answers and not just to appear engaged.
Where is the follow up? Who has responded to this questions and who has he pressed for a response?
Bellaphant- null/town, I hate to say I like something asas the overall tone of her posts, but that's what strikes me, her case on scorp in #190 was solid, #117 seemed to be some solid questioning, but she's tailed off lately.vague
So basically her ISO shows lurkerage and not much else and yet this is a town read. Totally legit.
Maxous- null/town, like that he seems to be actively scumhunting and posting reads,.some of his reads are hard to understand though, in fact he names 3 people as town or townish who are all in my scum readsDid like that he tried to dig up meta on grib.
1. So are you saying he's a bad player or his reads are wrong? Or what is the implication there?
2. What meta did he dig up and what did he share with the town about Grib? Is this normal for Grib to use meta reads? Or? What was his follow up?
Null
Malakittens- The idea that my role and scorp's contradicted each other bothered me, but I actually felt better after our exchange as I think her thought process behind it is very genuine and she's not trying to just set up lynches. Still don't like the fact that she sat on her RVS vote before voting me though, and- she's named reads but not really explained most of them, would like to see a bit more elaboration. Do actually find the Lalendra read to be a decent one, so there's that. also, would like to know what become of this:she ultimately doesn't have a lot of substance to her posts
In post 97, Malakittens wrote:I have to look at something with Maxous and I'll get back to you on that.
That statement is contradictory to the rest of it, however why is Bella town but Mala null? Scummy reads are scummy.
Atum- needs to post more. not sure how he's only at one prod thus far. Very little actual content to go by.
LOL, talks about Grib and his meta but ignores Atum's lurking. Why? Have you even looked to see what Atum is up to elsewhere?
OH SNAP WE NOW HAVE 7 SCUM or NULL SCUM IN THE GAME, OMG TOWN WE R TOTES SCREWED.
Grib/shaddowez- null/scum - still don't like that grib essentially never followed up a reads list that was extremely forced coming on page 2, everything he posted after was more or lessAs for shaddowez, a lot of their reads have just been saying someone looks good or bad without saying why, and they accuse superbowl of repeating someone else's argument, but a lot of their case on scorp is sutff that other people have posted in the topic. Still, they seem to be making something of a legitimate effort and my read on the slot isn't as harsh as it was initially.filler.The point on gray is a nice catch, actually - gray's really said nothing of value recently and doesn't appear to have a followup to his unvote.
1. If you meta'ed Grib then you would know fluff is his style, hence the nickname Gribblypuff Master of Fluff. But of course you didn't do that research, did you?
2. So why not vote Gray? In fact, he seems the scummiest of them all but catboi being one of three to avoid talking about the level of null that Gray is trying to embody.
Banakai- null/scum. Also very light on content, seems mostly to comment on the main subjects of discussion, #115 is very, sayswishy-washymy claim's suspicious but comes up with reasons I'm likely to be real, all while sheeping my vote on Grib, then in his very next post goes to vote scorpious over me. Still can see some hint of a legitimate effort in his posts, might get easier to read with a little more content.
And yet with all of this, you find him to be null because? What makes all of these contradictory actions seem null/scum to you? Or what's the town mindset that you see that balances out the scummy?
Grayfoxxxx- null/scum -Don't like the fact he promised reads in #170 then never delivered. He complained about not having much to go on early on, but hasn't really developed opinions since then, his one real move was to sheep the vote on scorp but now doesn't want to vote either of us, but hasn't presented an alternative.
This and your other comments on Gray seem to give off the most scum but yet again you've put him squarely where a scum would put him while FOSing the fuck out of him. Why?
Radja- null/scum. essentially very little signs of scumhunting. As far as I can tell, hasn't voiced a stronger suspicion than voting banakai early on for speculating about the existence of a cop role. Throws weak suspicion at scorpious in #111 and #200, then at malakittens in #202, but never makes an outright accusation. A post like #130 isn't bothersome in and of itself, but it's all basically safe, neutral statements that appear active but don't really advance anything.Somehow strikes me as worse than other low content posters because he seems to be trying toappearactive, while saying very little, and I don't get a real sense of purpose to the posts.
And yet, again with all this FOSing you have him at null/scum which means you are again reading him as null because?
Scum
Lalendra- Spends a lot of time talking about my claim, calls it suspicious in #81, seems to express doubt over the strategy of claiming right away in #106/#107, but in #120 says she tends to believe my claim, after general sentiment seems to be going toward not lynching me. Then, posts after that - #224 asks a question of superbowl9, no real followup, dismissive of another read, talking about my claim again. #227 is just weak suspicion of scorp, reluctance to vote due to the role, but then votes him anyway in #286 on a day-old post she'd already read/quoted past. What made the post suddenly notable then?
#233 and #234 are both extremely defensive in the face of some very, very slight pressure, which also looks like an "why me" sort of response. Don't like at all that her response to being attacked for lack of content is to claim there's nothing else to say and everyone else is just as bad (to be fair i've a lot of null/scum reads, but that doesn't make it any more of a good way to respond)
I'm ambivalent on Lalendra for now.
elusive-when I went into my iso reads, but came away with a far worse impression than my initial one. Can understand why they'd be doubtful of my claim given lack of experience with the meta but the fact is I've never seen a miller that didn't claim day 1 and not doing so seems stupid to me. Vote in #116 came across as town annoyance, getting fed up with someone not contributing. However, a lot of their posts after that come off as looking to attack others, more than scumhunting - #150, #157, #159, #179, are examples of this, as well as #191 -Wanted to say townthey're short posts that really just kind of pick at people without going so far as to make a full blown case.
The lack of a read on Grib is troubling, especially given they seem to have some familiarity with him and seemingly attacked people for voting him (see #165) The implicit critique here is that they think this is just grib's meta, but they don't say it outright and the only plausible motivation I can see is not wanting to defend him outright.
Also very notable that in #150 elusive calls out a post by scorpious as "super scummy"in #191 They say he's "a little iffy" but try to redirect attention away from scorpious and toward gray - they go from saying his actions are "super scummy" to soft defending him in a day's time,but a single day later. Strongly think this is scum.a dramatic shift in reads that I really don't see much of a rational explanation for
1. What cases for scum has anyone else in the thread made? Point me to a strong case that someone made where you are following them.
2. Link me to a day one game where you accurately read players as town\scum and made full blown cases that were accurate. Kind of want to see where you're at with that.
3. Scorpious has alleged he is a newbie (could be an alt, idk, I don't give out freebies to newbies - go to newbie school if your expecting hand holding), he also within that time period made a claim to be a doc. Why don't you believe his claim but expect yours to be believed?
4. Why are you voting for someone other than me if you think I'm strongly scum? Why? Why? Why? Why? I mean unlike the potential for Scorpy to be let's say 10% doc, I'm less of a risk since you know nothing.
Scorpious- yeah, still. overall style of posting has been very much to cast soft suspicion on people rather than making strong accusations,-justification of not trusting my miller claim seems incredibly poorand the idea that it's a good role for scum to claim is idiotic, essentially prevents them from claiming anything stronger and runs a risk of a counter claim or being outed by an investigative role. The overall questioning doesn't seem to have a purpose or go anywhere, also frequently pressing other players for content while saying little himself. The fact that he unvoted me when I mentioned his vote hadn't moved from RVS, then immediately re-voted just doesn't make sense from any sort of town mindset.miller's not a remotely uncommon role,
Vote on shaddowez is terrible, too. His mentions of Grib go from asking two randos if they support the lynch on Grib (#110), then never following up on it, asking him if he has reads that don't reference meta (#139), says that about him, which is basically meaningless commentary, along with saying his reaction to my claim is suspect, while trying to push him on my claim (#203), and then says he'd lynch the slot because...his reads were based on meta (as if that's meaningful) (#272). And that's "wary of the slot from the beginning"?o once it was clear to him I wasn't getting lynched. This just smacks of dishonesty.He'd only begun to express real suspicion of Grib 12 hours ag
Feel strongly on elu-scum but absolutely think Scorpious should be the vote today.
1. Actually I've played upwards of idk how many games on MS and this is my first encounter with a miller. So Miller isn't that common, maybe in this queue but not on the site.
2. So with that in mind and the alleged noob and my own feeling that claiming miller as the Wiki says may not be the best strategy (why not crumb it and then claim when needed?) Etc. You have actually ignored everyone talking about why it isn't the best to claim. The Wiki wasn't written by God nor does the Wiki have stats on how effective it is to claim Miller day one, for all we know wo research its possibly the worst thing ever.
3. I also pointed that out.
4. Is casting suspicion on players scummy? Why? What would town do or what would scum do? How is that different from your potentially 7 scum\nullscum?