Mini 1706 - Pula Mafia (over)

[Atum]

Atum - needs to post more. not sure how he's only at one prod thus far. Very little actual content to go by.

That would be my excellent sense of timing shining through for me. It's a gift.
____________
Anywho, I'm caught up basically, skimmed some of the big walls a la yours and elusive's reply though.

Essentially, pretty sure Scorpious' claim is fake, IIRC it sounds like he's got the experience to think up a good fakeclaim, and his posts just don't look towny, the one on grib's replacement stands out at the moment. Also, quick glance at his ISO shows some hesitance to definitively cast votes/call others scum until this was pointed out explicitly to him.

He's also been unnecessarily defensive and prickly (166, 184, 188, etc). Also don't like how he claimed so easily, he didn't really do any scumhunting or offer many opinions on the gamestate before folding in that regard, though I'm not sure that's alignment indicative. elusive, if you could meta him on defensiveness or scumhunting ability in the limited time remaining, I guess that'd be good, but in the meantime I like my vote where it is.

@Scorpious: Assuming this is sufficiently interesting to you (it is) can you give me a list? Towreads, scumreads, why. Also, a little self-meta question for you, do you generally find yourself being scumread by town as town?

[Malakittens]

btw atum i apparently mixed you up with citrus, i'm sorryc ;-;

[Atum]

Well I was trying to figure out how you got orange from all our time together. I demand a new and more fitting word!

Also, where's your vote at again?

[Malakittens]

Uh, i'll figure out a new nickname in a bit xD

Right now im not voting anyone. I'm leaning towards wanting to vote scorp, but i dont trust anything so i'm kinda iffy on it =[

[Atum]

Who else do you like for scum?

[Scorpious]

Atum - needs to post more. not sure how he's only at one prod thus far. Very little actual content to go by.

That would be my excellent sense of timing shining through for me. It's a gift.
____________
Anywho, I'm caught up basically, skimmed some of the big walls a la yours and elusive's reply though.

Essentially, pretty sure Scorpious' claim is fake, IIRC it sounds like he's got the experience to think up a good fakeclaim, and his posts just don't look towny, the one on grib's replacement stands out at the moment. Also, quick glance at his ISO shows some hesitance to definitively cast votes/call others scum until this was pointed out explicitly to him.

He's also been unnecessarily defensive and prickly (166, 184, 188, etc). Also don't like how he claimed so easily, he didn't really do any scumhunting or offer many opinions on the gamestate before folding in that regard, though I'm not sure that's alignment indicative. elusive, if you could meta him on defensiveness or scumhunting ability in the limited time remaining, I guess that'd be good, but in the meantime I like my vote where it is.

@Scorpious: Assuming this is sufficiently interesting to you (it is) can you give me a list? Towreads, scumreads, why. Also, a little self-meta question for you, do you generally find yourself being scumread by town as town?

Where was it stated that I have the experience?

How have I been hesitant to cast a vote? because I don't just throw it around?

I was defensive because I was put on L-1,how do you handle it? Do you just let yourself get lynched?Especially when you have an important role..

I was the first one to start asking others about the miller claim so I dispute you saying that I have done no scumhunting.

You just said that I didn't do anything until it was pointed out. I made it clear that I was busy,and I have upped my content since then,is this a bad thing?

Why is my claim so unbelievable but someone opens with "I'm a miller" and it's all good..

Why does it seem like nobody can see why a scum would do that? I think it's obviously crap,and I said that at the beginning..

Do you think Elusive needs your advice on what to look for?


And last, If I make a list,are you going to dump on me for not doing it until prompted to?

[Radja]

Without the flip of the role, how can you say you have 3 confirmed townies?

In a situation where you wouldn't be outed, a claim like that would not seem forced to me and I think I would buy it.


Anyway, I'm trying to read through the last pages, but I had a very busy day and it took a lot out of me.
I'm really torn on Scorpious. If we lynch him and he flips as he said, we're losing a lot of power on day 1. I felt like I was townreading him in our earlier game pretty easily. However, I was scum there, so I don't think that really counts. If someone wants to read this game, maybe? I was playing as Gnomeo there, for the record. I feel like his playing style is a lot different than it was in that one. As much as I dislike meta arguments myself, I think in this case, it might help us actually. I felt like he was really having strong opinions there, while in this game he is much more reserved.

[Radja]

That game has just finished today btw, so it's okay to talk about it now.

[elusive]

Ok taking a quick look at it now.

[elusive]

So from ISOing Scorpy in that game on day one he is : defensive, prickly but also logical and good at picking out inconsistencies and mis-logic. In this game he's still defensive, prickly but not as aggressive in pointing at scum. Is that scummy? It could be but it could also be that he's a PR and some people (like Mala for example) play PRs by being less aggressive and more lurkery in the hope they won't get NKed. Obviously, it leads to them hitting some town's scum radars and hard to tell if its scum just lurking or a town PR being nervous.

Scorpy isn't a noob from his other game but he doesn't know the MS lingo, so sorry about that. AtE means Appeal to Emotions. A tactic that scum or town might use and which in particular grates on my nerves.

Oh Scorpy, I like your town attitude. Very lovely, teaching those passive aggressive fruit loops to shove it.

This is where I'm at:
VOTE: GrayFoxxxxx

[Radja]

okay, you have a point about that. I feel too biased about it to make up my mind. I think Mala's point about losing a big PR is still valid too.

VOTE: Grayfoxxx

This wagon is good. Time to get off that fence.

[GrayFoxxxx]

Fuck you guys are going to make me type. Brb

[GrayFoxxxx]

Tonight.

[Maxous]

Get off shaddowez and back on Scorpious.

we still have time
I want to confirm Shadow knows exactly what he is saying here.

[Maxous]

2. What meta did he dig up and what did he share with the town about Grib? Is this normal for Grib to use meta reads? Or? What was his follow up?

we went over this

[elusive]

Grib has several games on this site so you could have looked at his town games as well. I guess not that deeply invested in figuring it out.

[Maxous]

i did skim his town-games
the behaviour was similar
but that means nothing without a relevant scum-game to contrast with!

[Atum]

Atum - needs to post more. not sure how he's only at one prod thus far. Very little actual content to go by.

That would be my excellent sense of timing shining through for me. It's a gift.
____________
Anywho, I'm caught up basically, skimmed some of the big walls a la yours and elusive's reply though.

Essentially, pretty sure Scorpious' claim is fake, IIRC it sounds like he's got the experience to think up a good fakeclaim, and his posts just don't look towny, the one on grib's replacement stands out at the moment. Also, quick glance at his ISO shows some hesitance to definitively cast votes/call others scum until this was pointed out explicitly to him.

He's also been unnecessarily defensive and prickly (166, 184, 188, etc). Also don't like how he claimed so easily, he didn't really do any scumhunting or offer many opinions on the gamestate before folding in that regard, though I'm not sure that's alignment indicative. elusive, if you could meta him on defensiveness or scumhunting ability in the limited time remaining, I guess that'd be good, but in the meantime I like my vote where it is.

@Scorpious: Assuming this is sufficiently interesting to you (it is) can you give me a list? Towreads, scumreads, why. Also, a little self-meta question for you, do you generally find yourself being scumread by town as town?

1. Where was it stated that I have the experience?

2. How have I been hesitant to cast a vote? because I don't just throw it around?

3. I was defensive because I was put on L-1,how do you handle it? Do you just let yourself get lynched?Especially when you have an important role..

4. I was the first one to start asking others about the miller claim so I dispute you saying that I have done no scumhunting.

5. You just said that I didn't do anything until it was pointed out. I made it clear that I was busy,and I have upped my content since then,is this a bad thing?

6. Why is my claim so unbelievable but someone opens with "I'm a miller" and it's all good..

7. Why does it seem like nobody can see why a scum would do that? I think it's obviously crap,and I said that at the beginning..

8. Do you think Elusive needs your advice on what to look for?

9. And last, If I make a list,are you going to dump on me for not doing it until prompted to?

You see how this is entirely defensive and not scumhunting in the slightest Scorpmeister? I do.

elusive, I saw him pointing out inconsistencies and all as well, but he's missing the follow up and pressure that would make me townread that behavior. It's an easy way for scum to look like they're hunting while hiding their additional knowledge of the gamestate.

Scorpo, because I'm a good sport, I've numbered your questions and will respond, 2 for 2, if you give me some reads. Here, I'll start.

9. No. I'll analyze it, and use it to further my read on you, and I'll also use it when you flip, to have reads that came from either conftown or confscum. A readslist from you can only help town at this point, don't be so worried about getting attacked for it. Though, if it sucks, do expect that said attack will come!

8. No, I am simply aware that elusive is better at, and uses meta more often than I do, and her experience there would help me place you, and perhaps her as well. It's all a great big team effort to stop the scumteam.

Your turn!

[Atum]

Oh, I forgot that bit about PR-play. Nvm elusive. I'll let that be null.

[Atum]

Also,

@All: Flashwagon on Radja?

[catboi]

Grib replaced site wide so anyone trying to pin scum on that is atrocious.

catboi's reads are nonsense and utterly so. "Feel strongly on elu-scum but absolutely think Scorpious should be the vote today."

So, again not voting your strongest scum read? Why?

Because I'm very confident Scorp's claim is fake.

SO based on copious research (done to what aim? To establish fake claims? Tot justify miller claim? To?), it seems Scorpy's role is possible but still wants to vote Scorpy? Why?

the ressearch isn't why I'm voting him. Something else changed my mind while I was re-reading. You're reaching.

christ almighty, this post is unreadable. If you want to react to my reads, do it in a format that's actually organized.

I'm feeling really mixed on catboi: on the one hand, I understand some of his reads, but he is scum-reading most of the game. I'm also wondering about the busy work of finding the games - it'd be a reasonable scum!tell for me, but I might have to do a bit of a meta read :S

p-edit, elu, not all of his reads are bad, and you've been a bit harsh about the super one, but you have some fair comments. Some of your comments can also be fair without meaning he is scum Mainly, though, I agree with the amount of FOS without a vote.

pp-edit, need to look at deadline/vc. Don't think I'm getting what I want today.

I'm not going to list people as town just to balance my reads. That's a dumb play as town to distort your feelings in order to fit players into a preconceived box of what a list of reads "should" look like. I went by how I felt, and right now I feel wary of a large portion of the game and to be honest I'd be suspicious of anyone who says they aren't

[elusive]

What is it that confirms Scorpy's claim as scum to you when you yourself listed multiple setups where a miller plus cop plus doctor is possible?

[catboi]

It's something I read in the topic, obviously. Ultimately it's not

what

he claimed, but the

way

he claimed it, along with his posting since then. Not the easiest thing to explain right now but it's there if you look for it, just look at the last page. If it doesn't make sense to you after that there's not much I can do. Wondering if you're being willfully obtuse at this point.

gray suddenly looking an awful lot like an attempted scum counterwagon

[elusive]

I'll look again at Scorpy. What makes Gray a counterwagon? What in his ISO reads town to you? What are his reads\thoughts in the game?

[catboi]

I never said he reads town. All I'm saying is, given the timing and nature of the wagon on him, it looks like scum trying to push a mislynch on an unpopular/lurky player. This is especially true given as i'm virtually certain one of the other wagons is on scum.

And again, read the whole of the last page and tell me you don't see why I changed my mind.