Micro 514: Dealing With Dragons Mafia (Game Over)

[Firebringer]

I don't think betting is scum

Got any reasons? Cause the reasons Betting is labeling me feels extremely forced.

[goodmorning]

'...even if I wanted to be rescued, you're going at it all wrong.'
'What?' said the knight, thoroughly taken aback.
'Shouting 'Come out and fight,' the way you did. No self respecting dragon is going to answer to a challenge like that. It sounds like a child's dare.'

Votecount 2.2

GrayFoxxxx [L-3] - shaddowez
Firebringer [L-3] - The Betting Pool
shaddowez [L-3] - Wisdom
The Betting Pool [L-3] - Firebringer

Not Voting [3] - Elbirn, Vedith, GrayFoxxxx

With 7 alive, it takes

4

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2015-08-29 23:30:00).

[Elbirn]

I think betting is just really, really misguided town. All of his premises are based on things that aren't true or are not verifiable and I just don't like it. He's still not scum, he's just not right. :/

I'm not voting firebringer, he's not scum.

Last scum is either shaddowez or gray.

[The Betting Pool]

1) Why isn't he scum in your reading? And 2) only one scum left? Do you know flavor?

--PA

[Elbirn]

I think I already went over why he's not town, also did you not say earlier that 3 scum would be overkill? Shortly before you went off looking for two scum of course.

But yeah

[The Betting Pool]

I think I already went over why he's not town, also did you not say earlier that 3 scum would be overkill? Shortly before you went off looking for two scum of course.

But yeah

(Assuming you mean not scum)

I said three scum who all knew one another's identities would be overpowered. My personal bet is that Axxle just knew something about the Mafia powers, not their identities. And certainly not vice versa. But we won't know until post-game, so whatever. I'm assuming no identity knowledge on traitor or scum team's parts, but you can work from whatever stance makes sense to you, obviously.

Correct me if there's more I'm missing, but you think Firebringer's town because Axxle moved back to him while at L-1 and floundering. When Axxle may not have known the scum team identities at all. Earlier you liked him for town for his over the top brashness, effectively. Which he embodied by uselessly pushing our wagon all day and contributing zilch for content/dissectable reads.

Look, I haven't played with you before; you don't know me from Adam. (Well, Eve in my case, but you get the gist) But can you just take five minutes and look through Firebringer's ISO assuming that I'm not a complete idiot? His posts, his words, his choices of play here. If you still think he's a paragon of towniness I'll stop prattling at you about it (no promises for the rest of the players) and just talk to you about Shaddowez being scummy instead where I think we might actually agree.

Which, I would like to discuss his play here? Not everything in my wall revolved around scum-Firebringer, and given that my thoughts on him yesterday got a grand total of this for attention:

you've had something from betting, a bullshit accusation on shadoweh

a discussion here would be appreciated.

And since you didn't answer about flavor knowledge, I'll save time and note that aside from Woraug the villains are wizards, a father and son pair, and wizards are the recurring villains throughout the series. As some might not have read these books to bits as a kid. If it's not three scum divvied into a team of two plus a traitor, I will whine incessantly at goodmorning in post-game.

--PA

[Elbirn]

I am here and drinking, let's do this

[The Betting Pool]

I'll be in and out over the course of the evening, probably not drinking, but sure, have at it.

--PA

[Elbirn]

What does PA stand for

Have a drink, it's the best way to play

I'm gonna iso fire cuz you asked me

Anything else I should do?

[Elbirn]

>2015
>no replies

Ugggggh talk to me

[The Betting Pool]

PA = penguin_alien, my main. Believe me after this week, if I didn't think I might drown certain sorrows in it, I might have some shots. Although I have yet to manage to get drunk, so.

I'd like to hear about your shaddowez read more. It might be the case that we're pretty much in complete agreement and it's just the mutual affirmation society, but since some of it is just a feeling on my part, I'd like to talk it out to see if it's based in reality.

--PA

[Elbirn]

Uhh mutual affirmation society

Sorry I got too much drink and friends and not enough mafia gimme time homie

[Elbirn]

K so that was supposed to be a question, what is mutual affirmation society

[The Betting Pool]

If we're both scum-reading shaddowez, discussing it might just be mutually affirming our read rather than picking it apart in a constructive/paranoid manner. No rush.

[Firebringer]

I don't trust The Betting Pool and any of his "reads" his case on me is completely crap.

I also think theres only one scum left, not sure if he was bussed or not.

[Wisdom]

He was a traitor, so no bus

[Wisdom]

I don't like firebringer today

it's prolly shadow and him

[Wisdom]

And yes we're prolly looking for 3 scum total

[GrayFoxxxx]

Ok looks like I was wrong about axxle. Guess that clears wisdom to an extent

How so?

I'm betting he didn't bus.

Ignore this.

Ok wisdom could still be decent lynch. Details soon.

[Elbirn]

Okay so I've read firebringer iso, and read over betting pools arguments for fire-scum.

Now that I'm sober, you seem kinda frustrated with me bp? And I apologize if I seemed un-cooperative or if I disregarded your thoughts. I think yesterday I was too hung up on the parts of what you were saying that relied on assumptions, which, well, hardly invalidates the rest of what you said, which was p solid.

Now then.

In a vacuum, firebringer is incredibly scummy upon review.

And after review, you are right that traitors are really set up dependent. And frankly I don't know why I was so obstinate about that, my first game with a traitor the traitor knew the whole scum team but scum team didn't know them, but in my second game with traitor there's was zero knowledge on either side. Soo... yeah. It's an unknown

(To be continued need to pull up a quote and I'm on phone..)

[Elbirn]

Still more flavour.

Votecount 1.FINAL

Axxle [LYNCH] - Vedith, Elbirn, Wisdom, kyndy101, The Betting Pool

The Betting Pool [L-4] - Firebringer
Wisdom [L-4] - GrayFoxxxx
GrayFoxxxx [L-4] - shaddowez
Firebringer [L-4] - Axxle

Not Voting [0] -

With 9 alive, it takes

5

to lynch. The day

will end in (expired on 2015-08-22 22:00:00)

is over.

Axxle

,

Woraug, Mafia Traitor

, was lynched Day 1!

Spoiler: Role PM

You are

Woraug, Dragon,

Mafia Traitor

.

"'Help her?' said the first voice, and Cimorene heard a snort. 'I think we should just eat her and be done with it.'"

Traitor:

You have no Night Actions.

Co-Conspirators:

You are given to know that the Mafia [redacted].

Book Character:

During the Day you may vote towards a lynch.

You win when [redacted], or nothing can prevent the same.

Now then, read Axxles role card. "Co-conspirators" reads exactly like a traitor who knows the scum team. "You are given to know...." sounds like the scum team identities there.

Tell me what you think of this. Axxle knowing his team mates complicates things, and I think he interacted with firebringer in a way that points to him being town, not a partner.

----

Oh also, you are 100% right about the book flavor and there being 2 scum left. No I did not know flavor, i looked it up after you mentioned. Dragon traitor with two wizard pair = only thing that makes sense.

Fixed.

For everyone's reference, that's what happens when you break a spoiler tag with a quote tag. In this case it was formerly q, s, q, /q, /q, /s, where the last two needed switching.

[Elbirn]

Ew gross.
Gm if you love me you'll make that post stop being colours

[Elbirn]

Oh wait lol I forgot

VOTE: Firebringer

He's scum for not hammering axxle and believing his bullshit claim. If youre scum and know there's a traitor, that claim from axxle would read like your traitor fakeclaiming

Still though talk to me about Axxles interactions with firebringer, what do you see

[Elbirn]

Wait

No That's bullshit, BP hammered him before he said anything about believing his claim or having a chance to hammer him. Bleh

UNVOTE:

[The Betting Pool]

Now then, read Axxles role card. "Co-conspirators" reads exactly like a traitor who knows the scum team. "You are given to know...." sounds like the scum team identities there.

Tell me what you think of this. Axxle knowing his team mates complicates things, and I think he interacted with firebringer in a way that points to him being town, not a partner.

My personal bet is that Axxle just knew something about the Mafia powers, not their identities.

Like "You are given to know that Mafia have daytalk" instead of "You are given to know that Mafia are 'X' and 'Y'" Since if we hadn't lynched scum yesterday we'd be in potential LyLo today, giving scum a way to quickhammer is...problematic. Like regular Mafia take one townie vote to L-1, traitor knows he can hammer with impunity.

Telling the traitor that scum have daytalk, for example, explains Axxle's weird claim and would give him a way to look for his buddies (look for indicators two people were in synch). I could be way off on this. But I also think that if he did know Firebringer was main-Mafia group, he was interacting with/about him in a way one might with a scum buddy. Getting adversarial over RVS stuff (that doesn't matter long-term), giving Firebringer's playstyle a potential out by letting others highlight how trolly it is, putting him as his top scum read while at L-1. I mean, he knew he was going to flip Mafia. He had a ton of pressure on him. He wasn't going to be dictating wagons any time soon. Why not suggest a scum buddy as his top wagon choice before he goes down? It's not conclusive, but I'm less interested in chasing our tails about a flipped scum's supposed reads than looking at the 400+ other posts that are mostly from town by default and scum-hunting there. If that makes sense.

As far as yesterday, not frustrated per se. Just looking for conversation.

Speaking of which, can we use this day phase to discuss shaddowez as well? I'm assuming he'll be back talking tonight, along with Vedith. And maybe even GrayFoxxxx?!? Whee. What's pinging scummy on shaddowez for you?

--PA