Mini 1697 - a Re-balanced Game of Mafia - GAME OVER

[pistachi0n]

You do realize that if I was anything but VT, I'd already have claimed doctor by now, right?

Not if you think you have a shot of the lynch not going through.

[BBmolla]

"Official" Vote Count

Ankamius

(3): Netherspite, pistachi0n, davesaz

Nethersprite

(3): Ankamius, RadiantCowbells, All Alone

davesaz

(2): Thesp, Alchemist21,

Alchemist21

(1): St Constantine the Hermit

Not Voting

(0):

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-08-29 14:20:00)


St Constantine the Hermit replaces Dom.

I'm extending the deadline two days to compensate for how long the slot was inactive.

[All Alone]

He says that his wagon looks scum driven and thus it's on town.
He's trying to turn it upside down in that passage because initially he said that it was 3 wagons on townies (him included) that me and

Alchemist21

joined. Now he's attempting to cover his scumslip by saying the reverse: that the wagons were scum-driven and that's why

davesaz

is town.
We have a classic A=>B=>A logical fallacy here: "the God exists because that's what Bible says, and the Bible says the truth because it's the word of God".

Where is the A=>B=>A? Ankamius said "The wagons look like scum, therefore they're town. Not the other way around like you're trying to spin it." in that post, and I see nothing in his ISO that contradicts that.

[All Alone]

LOL at All Alone finally taking a position on Ankamius v. Netherspite only after enough people have said they're willing to lynch Ankamius. It's just so bad.

I took a position on Ankamius vs Netherspite on

my very first post sitewide

after it started. Are you seriously gonna tell me it didn't occur to you that I wasn't online this weekend? You've been here since 2004, and you've never noticed anyone not post for a weekend? Get outta here with that garbage.

[Netherspite]

He says that his wagon looks scum driven and thus it's on town.
He's trying to turn it upside down in that passage because initially he said that it was 3 wagons on townies (him included) that me and

Alchemist21

joined. Now he's attempting to cover his scumslip by saying the reverse: that the wagons were scum-driven and that's why

davesaz

is town.
We have a classic A=>B=>A logical fallacy here: "the God exists because that's what Bible says, and the Bible says the truth because it's the word of God".

Where is the A=>B=>A? Ankamius said "The wagons look like scum, therefore they're town. Not the other way around like you're trying to spin it." in that post, and I see nothing in his ISO that contradicts that.

Gosh, why is it so hard for people to see the obvious?

He is accusing us with Alchemist for participating in wagons that are scum-driven because they're on town.
Now he's trying to put it like he's considering these guys town because wagons are scum-driven.
You can't claim both things, because it becomes A => B => A.

[All Alone]

Where, SPECIFICALLY, did Ankamius attack you and Alchemist for pushing wagons because the wagons were on town?

[Netherspite]

Yeah, and I guess it's just coincidence that you two were the very first two votes of the Day 2 Dominator wagon, the Day 3 davesaz wagon, and now my wagon, right?

This post implies 'look, these three wagons are town, thus I'm town and they are scum'.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, these are the 3 wagons that were heavily considered scum lead. That's the tying thread, not the fact that they are town.

[Netherspite]

So he calls them lead by the scum and accuses us as scum because we led it?
If you don't see A=>B=>A here I don't know what to say.

[Thesp]

LOL at All Alone finally taking a position on Ankamius v. Netherspite only after enough people have said they're willing to lynch Ankamius. It's just so bad.

I took a position on Ankamius vs Netherspite on

my very first post sitewide

after it started. Are you seriously gonna tell me it didn't occur to you that I wasn't online this weekend? You've been here since 2004, and you've never noticed anyone not post for a weekend? Get outta here with that garbage.

On this point, you're full of crap.

Your post on

Friday

:

I wanted to wait until I was sure about someone before I placed a vote.

I'm not really townreading Ank right now, it's just that there are others I think are scummier. But sure, why not.

VOTE: Ankamius

How are these quotes consistent?

This totally ignores the Ankamius and Netherspite back and forth. In the 24 posts

immediately

preceding your Friday post, Ankamius and Netherspite have 13 of them, and nearly all of them are attacking each other. The posts that

aren't

from Ankamius and Netherspite are all from the mod, or are nearly all making comments about Ankamius v. Netherspite (and heck, I'd just commented 3 posts before yours how I was willing to be the 4th on Ankamius's wagon). I don't think you're so oblivious as to miss this, so my conclusion is that you deliberately sidestepped the hullabaloo going on around it so as to not have to take a position on them.

Look, I totally understand not posting on the weekends. I rarely do. But I won't pretend that nothing was happening when you

were

posting, and especially at the time when Ankamius v. Netherspite was heating up.

Everyone else

, please read the thread from #1211 on to All Alone's post on Friday, and see if it looks to you like there's some issue he's dodging. You can do so with this handy dandy link right here.

[Thesp]

St Constantine the Hermit replaces Dom.

I'm extending the deadline two days to compensate for how long the slot was inactive.

Also, welcome, St Constantine! We need your thoughts relatively soon.

[Alchemist21]

It's hard for me to tell if AA was avoiding the issue. The post he made was quoting posts that were made when Ank vs Nether was just starting. I think this could just as easily be a case of him not being caught up at the time.

[Alchemist21]

Hmm...

If Ank is Town and my earlier Townreads are correct, scum are within Thesp, Dave, Pistachion, and AA.

I can't see scum AA doing an incriminating meta dive on a partner like he did to Pistachion so I would rule those two out as partners, yet I find myself naturally trusting Thesp.

I suppose Thesp, Dave, Pistachion is a possibility, but the way things are going I'm starting to doubt my basic Townreads. If Thesp and one of Pistachion/AA are Town, then I'm wrong about either Nether or RC.

[Netherspite]

Ank ain't town.

[Alchemist21]

I've played with Ank a few times before. I do believe if he had the idea in his head to claim Doc to draw the CC, he would have as scum. I don't think he would have chosen to play suboptimally for the sake of wifom that may not even pay off, plus his recent posts do look like genuine Town flail.

[Netherspite]

I tend to townread

Thesp

like you do and I know my alignment so all of this does not make any sense if

Ankamius

is town.
I wouldn't rule out

All Alone

being scum together with

pistachi0n

though.
Also I still don't believe

Ankamius

would genuinely using logical fallacies and turning things upside down like he did.
+

RadiantCowbells

&

All Alone

defense of

Ankamius

looked really weird. I would call them a scumteam if I believed scum could be that obvious.

[Alchemist21]

If he believed the wagons were scum-driven, then looked and saw the same names on them, why wouldn't it be reasonable for him to think we're scum? It is fallacious to claim the wagoned parties are Town based on that line of thought, but the actual case against us isn't a fallacy, though it is (at least) half wrong.

[Netherspite]

What's a scum-driven wagon? How do you distinguish one from normal wagon?
For me it's when you see scummy persons leading the wagon.
Thus it's stupid to base conclusion that someone is scum on the observation that the wagon is scum-driven. You're already considering them scummy for other reasons if you call the wagon scum-driven.
That's where I see A=>B=>A logical fallacy.

[Alchemist21]

It's not always a case of individual people on it being scummy; it could be a case of a wagon that doesn't make sense gaining traction or a wagon forming on an easy target. A lot of times people believe a wagon is pushed by scum but aren't sure who on the wagon would be the scum.

[Netherspite]

Well okay may be you're right.
However, I wouldn't call the wagons in question not making sense or being on an easy target.

[Alchemist21]

That depends on your POV though. Ank may see it differently.

[Netherspite]

That depends on your POV though. Ank may see it differently.

You made me unsure in my vote on him now.
I'm confused. Him being town however does not fit with any other theory except either

RadiantCowbells

being scum or

All Alone

+

pistachi0n

being scum together.

[Alchemist21]

Both are possibilities (though the latter would surprise me). There's also a chance we're wrong on Thesp.

I think Dave is the best bet for now. If I get time and clear my head I'll look some things back over, but right now I'm still clouded in my thoughts.

[pistachi0n]

What's a scum-driven wagon? How do you distinguish one from normal wagon?

The only way to distinguish it is catch scum and then see if anyone else shared their sympathies.

I played a game where St. Constantine replaced into once. He didn't say much and then got mislynched.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I am town. Where do we go from there?