Mini 1699 - #swag wars: THE empire strikes back (swaggedout)

[fferyllt]

Implosion is sounding more town to me today than earlier. The thought processes and town come off townish.

[fferyllt]

I had made a mistake about investigating so as sk. When I read it again, it said sk would investigate as vanilla, unless I read it wrong again.

What does "so" mean?

[Oversoul]

Huh?
His crumb was from Day 1, that is referencing the last sentence. My opinion/wanting him to be the lynch unless he has a baller claim was real time talk on this day. When I read through I saw his baller claim.

oh this makes sense

Wait... so you misunderstood when, chronologically, I said I changed my mind about Implosion?

[Oversoul]

Like what is your #1 scumteam and why?
Wicked, same to you.

Don't have time to explain, but I'm going with {Nacho, Notsci, RedCoyote}

Unfortunately, Nacho/Tammy are binary as are Notsci/Pie I think. I could be completely wrong in that case which would suck.

[Oversoul]

This isn't even getting into interactions with Jailkeeper (and I don't know if SKs are even allowed to have strongmans or not), so, if implosion gets a shot off, he is 100% confirmed town of the no asking questions and no going back variety.

Not true as I expressed the possibility of a Bookie. Less likely, but still possible and would "look" like a vig.

[Oversoul]

My current working theory is that Oversoul's initial intention was to have Tammy investigate him overnight so that she wouldn't worry about his alignment during the day and then kill her overnight, but the real reason why this particular exchange is a concern instead of an "oh oversoul!" moment is that it seems like he's overcompensating with his interactions with Tammy.

Was actually to see if Tammy was telling truth about her role

[notscience]

Like what is your #1 scumteam and why?
Wicked, same to you.

Don't have time to explain, but I'm going with {Nacho, Notsci, RedCoyote}

Unfortunately, Nacho/Tammy are binary as are Notsci/Pie I think. I could be completely wrong in that case which would suck.

How are nacho/tammy binary?

[Oversoul]

Rolecop + Backup role cop looks really ugly on paper with a jailkeeper and two goons + 1 mafia PR.

Rolecop does make sense given the miller so my 3 are probably wrong anyway given RC's presence

[Tammy]

I had made a mistake about investigating so as sk. When I read it again, it said sk would investigate as vanilla, unless I read it wrong again.

What does "so" mean?

Sorry, I'm in the process of waking up from a nap.

That should be investigating sk as sk. I saw nacho's post where he made the same assumption I had earlier, but it's wrong. sk would return vanilla, not sk.

[Tammy]

My current working theory is that Oversoul's initial intention was to have Tammy investigate him overnight so that she wouldn't worry about his alignment during the day and then kill her overnight, but the real reason why this particular exchange is a concern instead of an "oh oversoul!" moment is that it seems like he's overcompensating with his interactions with Tammy.

Was actually to see if Tammy was telling truth about her role

This is part of where I'm getting tripped up on you.

In your big post it looked like you were posting as you were reading along, so it kinda made sense that you were not as confident on your read as you wanted to be on me. But then you get to my claim, and you're still not as confident in a read on me? Like wha?

And this is AFTER the mass claim. Nobody counter claimed me. Nobody even claimed an investigative role, so how could you even pretend to still be showing concern about me or thinking I'm lying.

It feels like you're expressing fake paranoia on me because that's what you think you're supposed to do. You got stupidly paranoid of me in space dandy because mara quick hammered scum, but you soft pushed me the entire game during we the purple with free floating concern.

So this doesn't feel right, and are you literally telling me that you actually thought to completely waste my opportunity to catch scum so you could feel better about whether or not

the only investigative role

was telling the truth?

[Tammy]

I'm wondering why Nacho is overlooking stuff like this to call her potential scum because of her vote on him.

Is this what you were talking about?

At the time, it felt like a possibility despite the towntells that she'd dropped, and, being in a position where I was a train about to go underground and didn't really have the time to look through ffery's posts and remind myself of what towntells I like the best and see if the interactions around Anen and S-S were really good as I remembered, I jumped and prodded at her a bit. I was also sort of worried because oftentimes the same thing happens with ffery-scum that happens with you-scum; I write you off as town for a pretty good entrance, and then don't reanalyze my approach properly when we're still alive a couple days down the road, and ffery's response to what I felt was the same sort of struggle with wording and expressing myself (which is a problem when tired and hallucinating) that she saw first hand in Forest Fire, and it felt really unnatural to cut me loose at exactly the time when I would be the most vulnerable. Her initial response concerned me because I felt like response wouldn't be at all what she was expecting as scum, and the response seemed sort of awkward and like I had caught her off guard.

Are you reading her as town now then?

[fferyllt]

Nacho, it didn't look to me like the sort of struggle with words and expression you had in the forest fire game. In that game, you had a strong read (which turned out to be correct!), even though you couldn't explain it in a way that I could convey on your behalf. here, it looked more like a lack of good reads than a lack of expression of reads. I can see places here and there where could be difficult getting your thoughts into words. The RC read change fits that narrative, though I really didn't have a problem with your day 2 RC read at the time. I was second guessing my read at that point and wondering if I'd put too much faith in what is actually a pretty low-data meta read of a player whose scum game is very well respected from what I've gathered.

[Tammy]

I'm not really sure what my scumgame would look like after the year-ish long hiatus I took. I was gonna say I don't think it would look like this but aspects of it probably would, like the focusing on core townreads/waffling on others part, which is mostly because I've trained myself to do that as scum because I always wind up doing it as town. But I think my thought processes right now are not things that I would be able to fake here as scum.

holy shit does this look familiar
if the mtgs isos weren't utter shit, there's a great quote of me in response to tammy when she asks me why i'm not scum (or maybe vi or something) and i think i said almost these exact words with different specifics.
I said it because I couldn't really point to actions in my play that made me town/scum and I thought that sort of partial honesty (I could fake everything I've done here as scum except for unmentioned subtleties) would look good. Tammy, do you remember that?

I think so. I remember asking the question once because the reason why I chose right in that Skype game where I spent an hour trying to decide between you and Patrick was because of how passionate you got about why you were town that game and I was hoping you would recreate that reasoning. I remember being unsatisfied with your answer and afraid to push my scum read on you anyway.

I guess when it boils down to it, that's along the same reason for me asking how you felt about me wanting to lynch you was me looking for that type of emotion, or energy, or passion that helps me read you.

I'm not sure how to apply that to implosion.

[Tammy]

You see how it makes sense to put in a false innocent for a game where rolecop is a secondary investigative role but not where rolecop is the *only* investigative role, right?

What's the false innocent you're talking about?

[Tammy]

Rolecop + Backup role cop looks really ugly on paper with a jailkeeper and two goons + 1 mafia PR.

Rolecop does make sense given the miller so my 3 are probably wrong anyway given RC's presence

Why are you still trying to act like the role cop is the odd role out in the situation?

[Tammy]

Rolecop + Backup role cop looks really ugly on paper with a jailkeeper and two goons + 1 mafia PR.

Rolecop does make sense given the miller so my 3 are probably wrong anyway given RC's presence

Why are you still trying to act like the role cop is the odd role out in the situation?

You're also missing the vig and why are you assuming 1 mafia pr and two goons?

[Tammy]

what I want to do right now:

[Tammy]

I don't have any reason not to town read ffery here, and I think if she's scum here she's doing a really excellent job. i don't think that's the case as I think she's just town and I liked her discussion about the way she viewed her play here, i.e. thinking she'd been transparent and town since her second post. I tend to have paranoia on ffery early game as I think her scum game is better than she thinks it is, so it's usually not until mid-day one (or sometimes in the case of forest fire, sorry, day two) that I start realizing she's town when she is but I actually started town reading her earlier than normal this game, so.

If nacho does have any concerns there, I'd like him to speak up, but I'm not seeing it.

[fferyllt]

Tammy how are you reading Nacho?

[RedCoyote]

We're not voting ffrey, Tam.

[Tammy]

From there things get a bit murky and I feel like I'm just kinda getting a bit overwhelmed by all the various arguments. I think part of it is it doesn't feel like there's a strong town core in this game, not necessarily a strong leadership position, but a town core, and I don't mean a town block, but a core of people that is generally accepted to be town. I think that is making the game feel more branched out and less settled.

I think I'd feel a bit better if I could feel better about the pieguy,not science thing. Ffery - what is your read on pie?

I was feeling goodish about not science. I mean I was frustrated with him night two, but I'm not sure how much of that was just real life issues bleeding into my play, and I wish he picked up on some stuff, but he doesn't really feel like scum here?

Pie's convinction on her scum read on pie is the type of thing that I look for with pie (though it was missing one little tiny thing that might not actually be anything important) and her backing off of not science was good, but as scum it would have been necessary because people weren't buying into it and not science was looking more and more town which could have garnered pie some negative attention. I'm not sure how much I believe this though.

Her recent push on Nacho depends on how I decide I feel about Nacho somewhat and I need to reread through it.

pedit: I'm trying to get there. I'm kinda all over the place here.

[fferyllt]

[quote="Tammy"]Ffery - what is your read on pie?[/quote

]Some of my town reads are in flux again because some of implosion's posts today feel town to me. Sometimes a player will have an entire iso that I can't really find much to object to, but there's nothing there that stands up and screams town either. That's how I felt about implosion's posts prior to day 3, and it was very easy to PoE him based on other players feeling more town at the point where I was willing to see him lynched on day 2. his exchange with Nacho this morning changes that for me. I'm going to reread him tonight and see if this sense that he could be town stands up to another look.

If he's town, then I have to look at other reads with a more critical eye. That starts with Pie and Nacho. I'm reluctant. I feel like I just reached a point of sureness about the game and I don't want to give it up again.

[Tammy]

So then do you feel good about not science?

[Tammy]

Tammy how are you reading Nacho?

I'm not sure why but I don't feel close to feeling confident reading Nacho this game.

[Oversoul]

I read you via your emotion Tammy. I felt like your emotional claim was not warranted/it felt fake. That was mainly why I wanted you to target me. At any rate I felt that you were going to die so your investigation that night was going to be undisclosed. :/