Mini 1699 - #swag wars: THE empire strikes back (swaggedout)

[Oversoul]

Also the Vig is because I believe the Vig but it doesn't make sense with the Rolecop either. It confirms itself. There has to be a Rolecop or else why would Nacho exist, in all cases except you scum and Nacho scum (which I doubt very much).
Rolecop has to be weakened by something at least. Finding multiple Mafia seems strong with a Vig too so two goons to blend in with the townies.

[RedCoyote]

I felt like your emotional claim was not warranted/it felt fake.

I didn't get that at all.

[Empire]

DAY 3, VOTECOUNT 14

Nachomamma8 (3)

-

notscience, Wickedestjr, Oversoul

Oversoul (3)

-

RedCoyote, Nachomamma8, implosion

Not Voting (3)

-

Tammy, fferyllt, pieguyn

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is on August 29th at 9:40 AM EST or in (expired on 2015-08-29 09:39:56).

Mod Notes - N/A

[Tammy]

Your ability at reading me sucks then, especially considering the trash read you had on me in space dandy. But that's neither here nor there.

After mass claim, not one other investigative role claimed, you setup crack and you're still trying to figure out how I could somehow be scum here?

yeah, no, nuhuh, sorry.

I don't believe for one second you're justifying the role cop on the basis of a miller when it's the other way around.

Can you get your story straight in a way that makes some sort of sense, please? Because you sound like you're just spouting whatever sounds good at the time with no basis in reality.

Like I don't believe you're like oh implosion I thought you were scummy unless you had a baller claim OH YOU HAVE A BALLER CLAIM LET ME LICK YOUR BALLS, hey tammy your emotion feels fake but you claimed the only investigative role and therefore by any standard of reality are confirmed fucking town but I'm going to throw shade your way cuz lol.

[Tammy]

I read you via your emotion Tammy. I felt like your emotional claim was not warranted/it felt fake. That was mainly why I wanted you to target me. At any rate I felt that you were going to die so your investigation that night was going to be undisclosed. :/

So wait, was I scum fake claiming who needed to target you to prove I was lying because I wouldn't be able to confirm your role

or

Was I town you wanted me to target you and it wouldn't matter because I would die anyway???

[Tammy]

Not science feels town. Maybe I'm a sucker but when someone repeatedly proclaims "When I flip town..." I want to believe them. Maybe it's just the conviction there. I also liked his wondering why fiery was still alive as it reminded me of that newbie game where he got concerned about the nightkill thing when scum was leaving me, him and malakitten's alive for a while.

I guess *if* he's scum here then he could be scum with pie, but I don't see it really any other way.

[Tammy]

I wish I'd have rolecopped nacho now night one. I almost did, but I also think it's not very fair to just investigate someone because you're personally paranoid of the person when there's really no reason to investigate there, which I didn't feel day one.

I mean I guess scum could have a back up role cop and in that instance then it makes the miller claim somewhat suspect, but red coyote's play doesn't feel like calculated scum at all. He feels more like the red coyote that replaced into Bees than the other town games I've seen him in and the one time I've seen him as scum he was a bit more calculated. The way he keeps goading ffery to vote oversoul feels more town motivated than not. I guess the only way I'd worry about him being scum here is if a) the back up role cop was scum and therefor the miller claim was planned or b) we were in lylo and he was working towards a scum win.

Neither of those feel right. It feels more right that he happens to be one of the few town that I'd be able to actually verify as town.

So right now I'm feeling ffery, not science, red coyote as town.

[fferyllt]

So then do you feel good about not science?

Yeah I do.

[Tammy]

If I'm right about those three then that leaves: Nacho, pieguyn, implosion, wicked, oversoul.

I want to read both implosion and wicked as town, but I don't think that's viable.

[pieguyn]

a large part of the reason I thought Nacho was bussing RC on D2 had to do with the timing and progression of it

but another thing I was thinking of was that it looked similar to what he did in NY 169 to MafiaSSK on D1 in that he made a push on him right at deadline, SSK claimed doctor, and then he derailed it in order to cause a bunch of chaos at the deadline. this would be somewhat different in that Nacho wasn't around after the claim actually happened and I don't think SSK planned out the claim far in advance like RC would have done here, but I think it would have the same effect.

now that I'm taking a closer look at it again, this is more so the case when in hindsight I'm fairly sure both competing wagons (Boon and notsci) were on town. given those circumstances, from his POV it would have been extremely likely one of them would have got lynched in all the deadline chaos in absence of the RC wagon.

the other benefit to doing this, which is a point I think got brought up in that game as well. is that if RC flips at any point he can point back and say "o look, I _did_ catch scum, I just got threw off by the town-looking claim. oops".

and the other major reason (which I kind of didn't wanna elaborate on) is that from what I've seen of Nacho he usually busses once early game, so I would expect one of the people he pushed at the end of D2 would be somewhat more likely than average to be scum. RC fit the most in that regard in that his read really came out of nowhere. but, this by itself really isn't much of a point.

there's some other stuff I wanna sit down and look at but I wanted to get this out there

[pieguyn]

also, on an entirely unrelated note: am I the only one who thinks this might be 10-2-1?

I'm agreeing implo's recent posts look more town than not. and now I'm essentially stuck in the ass because I can't figure out a 3-person scum team from the remaining players. I have Nacho and RC as scum and then ??? bc I have reason to town read everyone else if I'm right about those two being scum.

the alternative here is that someone is bussing (which would point back to Oversoul scum).

[Tammy]

No, I'm not disregarding the possibility of it being 10-2-1.

I'm probably going to pass out soon.

[pieguyn]

Tammy, do you make anything out of Oversoul's current notsci read? I'm wondering bc I think notsci's reaction to me really obviously wouldn't have come from scum-him, and I was expecting him to factor that in when catching up (even if he hasn't seen the notsci/me dynamic in games, he had me and a bunch of other people who have saying notsci was strongly town off it). him ignoring it and putting notsci as scum anyway read to me like he saw the position he was in and was afraid to make up a scum read on anyone else out of fear of generating controversial content. however, I can't tell if I'm just overly biased here bc I have really high familiarity with notsci.

Nacho, I don't think you responded to the relevant part of 2664 (if I'm missing it, link plz).

[pieguyn]

There's just nothing left to say, imo. Now Nacho is hiding under the desk.

Actually, there is one question I have. implosion, have you told us who you are shooting tonight?

what in the holy hell was the point of this question? I can't see any reason you'd want this to be public information as town, whereas I'd expect it'd be *very* useful to scum at this point in the game (they would want to know in advance if it was likely one of them would get shot and plan accordingly).

[Oversoul]

What Notsci recent stuff?
Anyway, Tammy is trying to talk herself into a vote on me which is tantamount to a scum claim from her at this point since I've dropped a plethora of Oversoul town tells that she would be able to see given all the games we have shared. Christ. Anyone familiar with my play AT ALL would see the Vt/Not Vt thing as me basically being confirmed town.

"But Oversoul you can manipulate". Shut the hell up and use Occam's Razor. That type of self manipulation is never with overt things and if it is, then only cheeky players do that.
I've said my piece. I think Nacho is scum desperate for my mislynch. I don't think this is 2-1 split with an SK. Those should never really be used in Minis, let alone a Mini Normal. Empire would take a card out of Faraday's deck I think and say that third parties are generally not good if they have to kill everything to win.

I'm about to be super busy with work and school until Monday but this is probably the last time I can substantially post.

[Oversoul]

At any rate, Implosion should shoot I think. But I am ballsy like that.

[Oversoul]

I read you via your emotion Tammy. I felt like your emotional claim was not warranted/it felt fake. That was mainly why I wanted you to target me. At any rate I felt that you were going to die so your investigation that night was going to be undisclosed. :/

So wait, was I scum fake claiming who needed to target you to prove I was lying because I wouldn't be able to confirm your role

or

Was I town you wanted me to target you and it wouldn't matter because I would die anyway???

Both. If you were town you wouldnt be able to reveal anyway and if you were scum you would have to gamble. If Nacho is town this is entirely the play he should have done, but you know he's scum.

[Oversoul]

At that point, really no downside to me attracting you to target me

[pieguyn]

What Notsci recent stuff?

. . .

please don't tell me you missed everything that happened starting from p98

[Oversoul]

All I can say is how crazy would it be if all scum were already on both wagons and Nacho and I both happen to be town

Pedit: I mean you guys said things but it went in 1 ear out the other. Didn't really influence me/pique interest at sll

[Wickedestjr]

The {1536, 1538, 1544} group implies that you voted him and then read through his posts, unless I'm reading it wrong. But 2464 doesn't seem to acknowledge that you voted him before reading through with the 'new lens' that you talked about.

I don't know if I've addressed this point or not, but what?
The bottom stuff wrt RC has nothing to do with me voting him.

So... you

did

vote him before reading through his posts...

I don't understand how I'm misinterpreting.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, we belong together... why did you leave me for pie???

I think Nacho's slightly more likely to be scum.

I mean I know we talked about the whole RC switch, but is that it?

Pretty much + the lack of anything recent that sticks out as townish. Now I also don't like your backup role cop claim.

I mean, consider this from my perspective;
-everyone here is experienced, there aren't going to be a lot of mistakes being made
-you guys all know each other pretty well - but I haven't played with any of you recently and can't say that I've played more than a few times with anybody, there are a lot of strangers here
-my scum hunting style is very POEish and relies much more heavily on my ability to identify townies, that's pretty hard when everybody looks townish, unfortunately I'm not very good at catching scum tells

So yeah, I don't have a strong case against you for being scum. I just think your RC read change is hard to believe.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't understand why I have to follow my set reads in order, though.

That's what I do when I'm confused (like I have been for most of this game).

Maybe that's why I don't fully understand your approach. Can you honestly tell me that, as confused town, you refer to what your other townreads think?

Yes?

Then I guess it makes sense that you chose to reread RC first. Not sure your read-change is legitimate though.

[Wickedestjr]

Like what is your #1 scumteam and why?
Wicked, same to you.

I've already said.

My top three suspects are probably you, Oversoul, implosion. But my best guess for scum team is still you, Oversoul, ffery.

[Wickedestjr]

More tomorrow