Open 608: Jungle Republic - A jungle is conquered(game over)

[Firebringer]

My whole post got deleted!!!
Ohh well, I was trying to quote you PimHel, anyways on what you said.
How was me asking who you replaced screaming "survive" ummm what? That doesn't really make sense in my mind, asking who you replaced is trying to survive?

I don't feel threatened at all by you or your vote.

Your case is weak on me, and you saying I don't scumhunt is pretty much false. So yeah, you don't have much to stand on.

[PimHel]

Sorry, I forgot an 's':

I say your post

s

scream wanting to survive, instead of wanting to find scum. You say?

Obviously I can't get that much information out of one post.

Anyways, I haven't voted you and I haven't given my case yet. Why so defensive?

[Firebringer]

Because I want to "survive" lol.
I think everyone wants to survive. I would love to hear your case against me, might give me a few good laughs.

[PimHel]

Guess which factions have survival as top priority, so wrong answer.
And I'm waiting on some players before my points against you will be posted

[Wanderer-nl]

@Pimhel: I was being ironic with my comment to you when I revoted Savant. I don't really know what you mean and I would greatly appreciate you giving me some postnumbers (or -links even) so I know what you're talking about.

@Firebringer: ehm, I've seen you scumhunt more actually and I'm really doubting you lately. You still haven't explained why you think I'm scummy and you saying you don't want to rule anyone out (203) reaks of scum. You encourage people to scumread you, but when someone actually starts scumreading you, you hit the defense. Afraid that you might actually get lynched today?

[Wanderer-nl]

Also, Firebringer, now that you know who Pelhim replaced, what do you have to say to him, other than defending yourself?

[PimHel]

I will eventually. Just as with Firebringer, I'm waiting for something. But if that hasn't happened before tomorrow, I'll post them then so that we have time to discuss it.
I'll discuss what you've said to Firebringer in the 2 posts above then as well, but I like what you're saying.

[Professor Bozo]

PimHel might be town, I like their shadows push a lot. Their wanderer push is weaker, I can generally follow wanderer's train of thought progression, but it shows them engaging well with their reads. FB seems to come off looking worse from the conversation, I could vote that if we get to close to deadline.

Veid, I think your last post could've earnt you some town-points.

[Not_Mafia]

Vedith's 153 sucks

[Wanderer-nl]

Vedith's 153 sucks

I agree.
I'm curious though what exactly it is that you dislike about it.

[Wanderer-nl]

About time we start agreeing on a lynch.
NM, I'm not as sure of Vedith as I am of Savant so I'd rather lynch them today. Would you be willing to vote Savant?
Vedith: I'd like to see you engage more.

[Firebringer]

Guess which factions have survival as top priority, so wrong answer.
And I'm waiting on some players before my points against you will be posted

Everyone has survival on their minds. A town member can't do jack shit in the graveyard.
You are right, scum want to live through lynches though.

@Pimhel: I was being ironic with my comment to you when I revoted Savant. I don't really know what you mean and I would greatly appreciate you giving me some postnumbers (or -links even) so I know what you're talking about.

@Firebringer: ehm, I've seen you scumhunt more actually and I'm really doubting you lately. You still haven't explained why you think I'm scummy and you saying you don't want to rule anyone out (203) reaks of scum. You encourage people to scumread you, but when someone actually starts scumreading you, you hit the defense. Afraid that you might actually get lynched today?

So, I should not be defensive if someone is calling me scum? Sometimes I ignore the player, but really? You see his case? Its garbage.
No, I am not affraid of getting lynched. I welcome you to bring it.
I also haven't called you scum in awhile btw, I just had a feeling about you. This post doesn't help with that feeling. Since you are now making a weak case to seemingly help Pelhim.

Also, Firebringer, now that you know who Pelhim replaced, what do you have to say to him, other than defending yourself?

He is replacing a weak player and is a weak player himself, I don't think he is town pushing a mislynch right now, I think he is part of one of the scum teams. I don't know who would be his ally(allies) he hasn't talked enough for me to see any good association or distancing.
I doubt its you right now. If anything you two are on opposite teams.

I will eventually. Just as with Firebringer, I'm waiting for something. But if that hasn't happened before tomorrow, I'll post them then so that we have time to discuss it.
I'll discuss what you've said to Firebringer in the 2 posts above then as well, but I like what you're saying.

PimHel might be town, I like their shadows push a lot. Their wanderer push is weaker, I can generally follow wanderer's train of thought progression, but it shows them engaging well with their reads. FB seems to come off looking worse from the conversation, I could vote that if we get to close to deadline.

Veid, I think your last post could've earnt you some town-points.

Vote me then.

[Vedith]

Vedith's 153 sucks

Sorry about that.

About time we start agreeing on a lynch.
NM, I'm not as sure of Vedith as I am of Savant so I'd rather lynch them today. Would you be willing to vote Savant?
Vedith: I'd like to see you engage more.

Yup, I'm working on be involved more.
I'd vote Savant over a no lynch/my lynch, and as both of my scum reads have swapped people (and I like PimHel's responses and participation already) I can't really suggest a better lynch for today. Although Klick wouldn't be a no option for me.

[/unvote]PimHel[/unvote]

[Wanderer-nl]

I don't know Firebringer, I'm having trouble sorting you this game. I'm still more happy with a Savant-lynch right now.

[Vedith]

UNVOTE: PimHel

[hayatoBL]

I don't even know how to respond to this because that was my first post in this game and the 3rd post made by someone actually playing this game. It was a random, silly question that could have maybe lead to an awkward response. It didn't, and that was that.

I understand your playstyle here. You post any question early game and see if anything happens. Fine. That's why I decided to read your question on *me* as null because I decided that your questioning was playstyle-indicative and was not alignment-indicative. This question towards mario, however, is on another level because one could predict accurately what mario's answer would be which would not indicate mario's alignment in any way. That's why it was off to me. Though, I decided to put less weight into this as I have currently other issues with you.

I went back to look at the context of that post and I have no idea what to make of it. I vote Mario in 82 and my next post, 92, I unvote him. And there was nothing to trigger that, except Savant bringing my question to Mario back to my attention. I was trying to discuss whether Mario would be so obvious as scum, but my post lacked a question to invite the reposne I wanted. I'm still scumleaning Mario/NM, but I need more interaction with the slot to develop my read.

What kind of question would you have asked and to whom?

Because I don't see you asking, 'Are you this obvious as scum, mario?'

And the reason why I said about the thing about Deas being Town was because there lies the difference between Town-Deas and scum-you. Explanation:

I believe Town is more likely to hide reads than scum. To give an example: If Town have a strong scum-read on X but have a minor town-read on the same person, Town is more likely to hide that town-read, as revealing it will probably work against his own goals which is to lynch X. Deas had other reads(so he claimed) but chose not to say them as
they are probably not helping him achieve his goal.

You, on the other hand revealed scum-read on mario although you're not scum-reading him(so I understood initially). Now you're saying you still do and for that I need to check for consistency,

tl;dr Town reveal reads to achieve their goal, while scum reveal reads to look Town.

About Savant:
I disagree with the Savant wagon because I don't see why he's scummy and I'm think his wagon is scum-motivated. I have rebut Klick's version of the case with no answer in return. Do you want to respond to that?
I disagree with myko that it's a scum-tell though it's not neccesarily coming from a fake thought process.
As of your meta-case on bella, I need you to explain it to me.
If there were other cases I've missed, please link them. I'm fairly sure I didn't.

My PL comments are warnings to create pressure to get them to produce content.

My reads aren't set in stone and I just post anything I think because even if I'm wrong, the reactions to those thoughts can help me develop my reads more.

Sure. But reads come from thoughts and scum has to fake thought process to blend in.

[hayatoBL]

Jazz: You'll have to quote which part of the post you found unclear, because I think it was clear enough.

As of the rest of the thread, I'll write about it eventually as I just can't find the time to.

[Wanderer-nl]

@Hayato: You're using a lot of words to tell me I'm trying too hard to look town.

Bah, I was convinced I asked Savant/Bella why they/she are/is so paranoid of me in this game..
Savant/Bella, can you explain your paranoia of me?

[shaddowez]

Are you saying you're convinced myk is scum because he

wasn't

aware of NM replacing Mario?

I fixed the quote to actually represent what I was saying....It is a contributing factor in my read, yes. I wouldn't say that's what

convinced

me, no.

Mistakes aren't just made by scum, you should be looking at motivations of players.

I absolutely agree. However, the nature of the mistake is often a good indication. Taking it to the extreme, voting for a mislynch is a "mistake", but I obviously know that not everybody that did so is scum.

@Shaddow
True, players should look at things that stand out. However, this behaviour is normally consistent. For example, you suspected Gameplay for interesting reasons. Then drop them to vote a player who hasn't posted much. This is interesting as basically, you and Vedith posted almost the same things when you voted him. And secondly, you argue that Myko hasn't engaged with his scumreads. And you aren't doing that either. I can add to that asking questions to players, but not discussing the answers afterwards. Basically, you appear active. But not in a good way.

I actually addressed the reason for dropping my gameplay vote to somebody else in 188. Yes, it was after the fact and not at the time of the vote change, but the reasoning is out there. I also disagree with you saying I don't follow up on stuff, as I do so with Vedith in 188, DV in 140, Jazz in 166. Just because I don't ask further questions at the time doesn't mean I'm not following up. Especially since, as you already pointed out, my play style is more on reading into what people have posted.

NM

- is 258 really all you have to offer? I know you're a better player than this, and you have me worried.

Veid, I think your last post could've earnt you some town-points.

The phrasing of this sounds very non-committal. Did it or did it not come off as townie to you?

[shaddowez]

@Mod

- Typical V/LA until Sunday night

[mykonian]

Well, you don't need to, since NM replaced Mario. I find that scum care less about paying attention to who's in the game, so this just further concretes my vote.

I have been unable to notice nm's effect on this game

how about you.

[mykonian]

Also to clarify, I'm quite aware maniac got replaced. I think nm is a lurker.

not quite sure why shaddow wants to interpret this as me thinking mario was a lurker (he wasn't.)

[PimHel]

Post 261 - Firebringer Again, I haven't posted my case yet. Nice try to discredit it, without having posted anything about it yet. Shall we make a begin then? What is your reason for voting Savage? Is it based upon him making a scumteam of 3 at the start of the game or is there more to it? Answering this question will give the possibility to shorten my case.
P.S. I'm not a weak player (A)

@Shaddow
True, players should look at things that stand out. However, this behaviour is normally consistent. For example, you suspected Gameplay for interesting reasons. Then drop them to vote a player who hasn't posted much. This is interesting as basically, you and Vedith posted almost the same things when you voted him. And secondly, you argue that Myko hasn't engaged with his scumreads. And you aren't doing that either. I can add to that asking questions to players, but not discussing the answers afterwards. Basically, you appear active. But not in a good way.

I actually addressed the reason for dropping my gameplay vote to somebody else in 188. Yes, it was after the fact and not at the time of the vote change, but the reasoning is out there. I also disagree with you saying I don't follow up on stuff, as I do so with Vedith in 188, DV in 140, Jazz in 166. Just because I don't ask further questions at the time doesn't mean I'm not following up. Especially since, as you already pointed out, my play style is more on reading into what people have posted.

First of, do you have anything to say about that you voted Vedith, while his posts were at that time basically the same as yours? Basically something random and a vote against Gameplay with reason.
Adding to that, you have mentioned reasons why you unvoted Gameplay. However, 1. not doing anything (the same as your reason for voting Vedith) 2. Getting bored, and / but pushing a lynch. Wouldn't you agree that Gameplay was a better vote then? So why change it to Vedith?.
As for the examples of you following up on things, the example of Vedith is an example where you do. The other two examples are players who mention you for doing something they don't like... Examples that reinforce my statement of you asking something or probing something and then leave are:
Your reasons for voting Gameplay, Post 116 asking Klick a question, Post 117 asking Wanderer and Hayato a question, Post 166 mentioning Vedith, but not gameplay, etc. If you're a player who read into what players have posted, wouldn't you discuss their answers?

[Firebringer]

@PimHel I am waiting for you case against me. Please give it. I want to hear it.

@Wanderer is it because you are scum and think I am possibly on other scum team? I think your trouble sorting me is you worried I might get you lynched later.
Fear me Wanderer, fear me.

[DeasVail]

@DeasVail - How what that?

Yeah yep yes!

She has to be lynched sooner than later anyway.

Why?

this is not Bella's towngame.

How so? (Apologies if you've explained before and I missed it)

Ok, I've read up. Still experiencing health issues which I'd hoped to have cleared up by now. I can sort of follow along but it'll need to be low effort until further notice.

Klick-slot, Shaddow and Vedith all seem the most likely scum to me with Idiot Savant and NM bringing up the rear in a 'sort of makes sense as scum maybe' category. I was sort of meh on Klick's scumread of Savant and while I'm not particularly impressed by them, I would like a 'this is why Savant is scum' post. The more I think about it, the more I'm sketched out by Klick's townread on me, but I'd like to see his replacement. Still cool with my Vedith vote though I'm not as excited about it I was however long ago, so I may move it somewhere else. I hope to be able to post better soon, but this will be it for now.