In post 147, catboi wrote:In post 143, Shinobi wrote:Finding scum is only 50% of the game.
The other half is convincing people you're right.
I get the point you're making but, really, come on.
then why even bring this up, unless you're just trying to be a tool?
Why would you act like finding scum is the end-all-be-all of townplay?
Same thing.
In post 143, Shinobi wrote:Not really.
Let me reiterate this to you a third time:
You were spending time in the thread with an unexplained scumread and you were more content to make snide jabs at people than move the game in any significant direction. It is incredibly basic stuff. I found you to be the scummiest person in the thread at that particular moment and voted you for it.
If you don't feel the need to explain an RVS vote, then how should I ever read you if you won't bother explaining things? Your whole bit about reactions is essentially moot because you have no understanding of my range as either alignment - you're just saying it's scummy because "town wouldn't react that way, only scum would" when you aren't providing examples of me doing either or how it's out of the blue and scummy.
The thing you're saying only applies if you have meta to back it up, which you simply don't have.
Let's break this down:
Shinobi is overreacting to an unexplained vote. <----How and why is this scummy?
Shinobi voted me because he thinks I am useless. <----How is this inconsistent with your earlier posting and how can I only be mafia for thinking it?
I might have overlooked some bits, but those seem to make up the main crux of your case, which isn't really that strong on its own.
This is crap. Apparently accoring to you, all reads are worthless without meta or something? Fact is almost nothing you've done has seemed sincere or borne out of honest scumhunting, and a lot of comes off as exceedingly fake reasoning that doesn't really make sense.
Here's the deal: When I drop a vote like that early in the game, someone can brush it off, or they can do what you did and take it seriously.You didn't need to, but you did, and that in and of itself implies at least some level of nervousness that I've caught on to something.It's not a definitive tell or anything, but it's something I decided to push on, and your reactions have buried you, especially when you decided to vote me for decidedly crap reasoning that was quickly made invalid.
I find the notion that any player could be determined to be "useless"on freaking page 2 of a gameabsolutely ludicrous, the fact is by that point there's barely anything to go on, to think that I stood out in some way in that regard is ludicrous. That's not to mention the fact that no, I had a gut scum read on you and was advancing it at that very moment. Your reasoning was at most tinly-veiled OMGUS. Now, OMGUS voting isn't inherently a scumtell, I think town players do it a lot but the manner in which you tried to advance the vote was weak as hell. If you'd looked like frustrated town who think they're being pushed on a bad case I'd have bought it, but you didn't - you looked like scum trying to attack the people voting you.
The fact that you're trying to ask me these questions that drill down into my reasoning when you were so unwilling to answer them yourself is terrible, also.
The bolded doesn't imply anything.
I still don't understand why you don't like my reactions.
I don't understand the difference between "frustrated town" and "scum trying to attack people." There's no real distinction being made there.
This is 100% ludicrous dog crap. Suggesting activity is indicative of alignment early in the game is complete nonsense. It's indicative of nothing. Someone simplyIn post 143, Shinobi wrote:No, it's not.
Activity and productivity are far more likely to point to townies than scum. Sure, there are exceptions, but as far as early game reads go, I think it's a spectacular reason to trust someone rather than someone who boldfacedly does nothing.
Why on earth would you ever think nothing/less of people who do stuff? That doesn't really sound like a good idea, tbh.
And as for being "fairly meaningless," there were two bits that I liked about both of them:
vijay's whole line of reasoning seems to be based on prodding Scorpius to do something, which I was already thinking before he actually posted it.
Spiffeh's whole bit on Kyubei refusing to give examples and positioning himself oddly on the whole "you" wagon was spot-on and insightful, and I liked his line of thinking.doing thingsdoesn't make them town, and to suggest so is either lazy or idiotic. I lean toward it being scum lazily handing off reads for people who don't deserve them, because as scum you see towniness in everything, even when it's not really there. vijay pressuring scorp because he's not voting anyone is actually fairly weak, anyone can press on that sort of junkbecause it's not really a tell.
Scumhunting is towny, shockingly.
In post 143, Shinobi wrote:Unflipped associatives are bad because, the reality of it is,
Assuming that I'm town, what then?
And what's so easy to understand about his play? I don't really understand it at all - I see an unexplained scumread and a guy that doesn't care about what's going on. What's so towny about that?
Wasn't making associations at all - I just like the fact he's read you the exact same way I have, implying a similar line of thinking. I wouldn't expect you to be able to understand it.
I can't say I'd be able to, considering he hasn't explained it and you don't know why he's siding with you either.
