Mini 1699 - #swag wars: THE empire strikes back (swaggedout)

[fferyllt]

Ok, reading through that (won't be until a couple hours before I can settle down again and read the contexts of your links), this is the problem I have. If you're town, and you're lynched today, then that's it. Town loses. The best outcome we could hope for is a chance to play kingmaker with Implosion vs whoever if he's SK and not Vig.

This is not the time to give up regardless of your alignment. If you're town, you're my teammate and I've played most of the game assuming you are.

I don't feel like my meta dive has been conclusive. Mostly it just frustrated me to see you CARING about some shitty game situations and demanding more of town than you were getting. This isn't a shitty game. Whoever is scum here, they've played good, strong games to the extent that sorting at this point is way more like pure PoE than typical scumhunting/townhunting.

[fferyllt]

3042? I addressed it. See the very top paragraph of 3044.

My question is really more one of do you feel like I've misinterpreted or misread the games I've commented on? Even without finding close matches to this game on my own, I'd like to know if I'm at all right about what I've seen as motivations in your town game.

[RedCoyote]

If there's one silver lining in this game, it's letting me go back and laugh at some dumb stuff I did in old games. implosion, do you remember that ATHF game? That was such a hot mess.

ffrey, if I approach the game from the way that pie wants me to, I'm sunk. That's it. I haven't been playing town this game, you know? I don't think that's up for debate. I can't go back and spin it and say, "oh, that time I hammered Ane... that was good town work". I don't think that approach will help me and I don't think it will help me achieve my win condition. Let's leave aside the fact that it's silly to lynch me today regardless when 5/6 of us agree Wicked is scum. I see my play as to make a more emotional case for myself. To point to the setup rather than the past. If I can get implosion, you and the third townie to see me as town on that basis, I think that's the best path to victory.

Look at 3033 and 2956. pie doesn't want me to try and sell myself as town... she wants me to sell her on someone else as scum. One may think there's no difference between that, but there is. Is any of this making sense, ffrey? It's not about me "giving up". There's an element of that, but that's a simplistic way of looking at it that I think --hope-- you can see beyond.

Everything we do in this game is an argument.

[RedCoyote]

3042? I addressed it. See the very top paragraph of 3044.

My question is really more one of do you feel like I've misinterpreted or misread the games I've commented on? Even without finding close matches to this game on my own, I'd like to know if I'm at all right about what I've seen as motivations in your town game.

You'll need to be more specific if you want an answer that's more specific, but, for the most part, regardless of alignment, I do not want to be seen as though I'm not trying. Real emotions alter that principle though. That's what being a human being is. So, uh, I don't know how to answer this without coming across as cliche. You're right that about what kind of behavior I generally dislike, but I have biases and off days and real life and etc etc etc. I know I don't always conform to my own standards. This speaks a lot to why I think meta can be so hit or miss, too.

FYI: You mentioned ego searching me, but all my games are on my wiki which should make that part easier.

[fferyllt]

Ok.

And notsci is your strongest townread?

[RedCoyote]

No.

[fferyllt]

I really don't want to play this game anymore. I can't even look at it without feeling distraught.

What are we doing, ns?

I've been assuming he is because of this question.

[notscience]

That was my assumption as well.

That concerns me.

[RedCoyote]

He was coming into today. He is no longer.

[notscience]

What changed it?

[RedCoyote]

2968 & 3011

[notscience]

Why, and I assume what you're saying is now implosion's your strongest townread? Which kinda should have been a given at this point that he's town

[RedCoyote]

Though I wouldn't want to be held to the standard of ffrey myself, 2968 was lazy and easy. You picked the first, most recent scum game of mine that you remembered and slapped on, "looks the same". You didn't ask me to talk with you about it and you didn't consider that emotional appeals may not be alignment-indicative for me. I was unimpressed and saw little hope of meaningful interaction at that point.

Which kinda should have been a given at this point that he's town

When did you decide he wasn't an SK and the setup wasn't 10-2-1?

[RedCoyote]

I know I can't expect you to be able to decipher between when I make calculated emotional appeals as scum and as town, but I didn't appreciate how easily and carelessly you threw that out there.

[notscience]

About

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p7180698

I initially had some reservations with the claim I never aired, but I don't see a world where the SK only kills twice if tha tmakes any sense at all.

My initial grievance with the claim is why claim the limiting factor of the role.

The reason I went with that game is because it was fresh in my memory, and I remembered explicitly how apologetic you were after day 1 and that was the feel your play today gave me.

Is it lazy?

Kinda.

But at the same time, so what?

pedit-

Is there a reason you're trying to discredit me now?

[notscience]

Rather: Why shouldn't I think it's a calculated appeal coming into today?

[RedCoyote]

My initial grievance with the claim is why claim the limiting factor of the role.

Makes it more believable. Further, at this point in the game, whether or not he ended up shooting tonight doesn't matter. If we lynch town, we lose. If we lynch scum and he shoots town, town become kingmaker and he has a 50/50 shot of winning. Overall, that's a pretty good shot at winning.

But, yeah, that's a pretty fair point.

Is it lazy?

Kinda.

But at the same time, so what?

Why does it matter that you are lazy and are looking for an easy lynch? Is that the question you are asking?

Is there a reason you're trying to discredit me now?

ffrey shamed me, lol. Frankly, I expected her to be on board with lynching me after the way I've treated her this game. Even moreso than you and pie.

Why shouldn't I think it's a calculated appeal coming into today?

Anytime one of you or pie asks me why I'm town, even when you dress the question up all fancy, I will continue to point to my role claim and Tammy's flip.

Besides, wish a scumteam of Nacho and Wicked, I think my entire strategy would've been considerably different. I sure as hell wouldn't have called Wicked town all game and half-assed did the same thing for Nacho.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: with a scumteam

[notscience]

Who other than wicked is scum then?

What do you think scum's power looks like?

[notscience]

And in all honesty, I don't have time to go pouring through games.

The only games I remember playing with you are Space invaders, that micro I linked, and then fery reminded me of l4D that I lurked through.

I'm a lot better with games I was directly involved in unless there is explicitly something I am looking for.

[RedCoyote]

Godfather/Goon. I don't think the scumteam would need any additional power.

The last scum is either you or pie, I think. pie with a gun to my head.

ns, you really don't remember the first game we played together? I remember it quite clearly. You were such a nuisance.

[RedCoyote]

In case that wasn't clear, I mean I would pick pie if I had a gun to my head.

[fferyllt]

Why would a wicked/redcoyote/nacho team play day 3 the way they did?

[RedCoyote]

Also I don't care if you go through my games, ns. That's not the point. Don't go making meta arguments if you're not prepared to follow through.

[notscience]

The last game we played together was space invaders.