Mini 1709: Radjarok: Game over!

[Wanderer-nl]

Alright thank you Dessew.

Anyway, i have 100% with VeeGee on this, vijay2's posts seem to be pulled out of his ass or half-assed. With that said however, i

do not

think he is scum at this time (and i doubt VeeGee thinks that either), his posts arent exactly ones that would slide under the radar.
Though i really wish he would actually give more of a shit here.

This makes no sense at all. You agree with Veegee about not liking Vijay's tone, and then that makes him town, and also instead of asking Veegee what exactly he meant or didn't like, you're just going to assume he's not scumreading Vijay. And then the next day you make your readslist (94) and there you seem to be scumreading Veegee for something that happened in 71 which was before you agreed with Veegee. Other than that you call Hopkirk town and Trivium your first scumread. What do you mean by 'first scumread'? All the other reads are not even reads, but you trying to post something so you'll look like you thought things through.
You say you are trying to move the game forward, but how about asking questions to find out why players are doing something? That would be more helpful then posting a weird readslist where you barely take a stance. Hopkirk is a boring townread and Trivium, iirc, is also quiet so you're doing

exactly

what you were accusing Veegee of.
242 Players have asked you why you think Veegee and Accountant are scum, but you decide to take a look at Klingon's iso out of nowhere. Flippant much yourself? Or just trying to get people to focus on someone else besides you?
Gob isn't shy about outing townreads, however with some of them he finds something to add that gives an opening later to change his mind on said townread. Like calling Accountant town, but also bringing up she's fence-sitting and rolefishing. And I really don't like his tone towards Hopkirk, since he was townreading him. I'd think Gob as town would be more cooperative with a townread.

I'm pretty sure my vote is going here but I want to read some more iso's so will hold off voting for now.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm here. Nothing really to say at the moment. I like my gob vote.

I believe gob is at L-3 and Wanderer is at L-2.

This caught my attention.
In 224 you ask several questions and a quick skim tells me none were answered. How do you feel about that? You also said you were caught up to post 193 there, do you have any comments on posts/reads after that?
Have you been able to iso Dessew or did you decide to not do it after all?

[Wanderer-nl]

Accountant is a hard one for me. She's very articulate but nothing to me stands out as town. I get her numbers-thing, I played with someone that uses a +/- system to sort their reads, as long as the system is clear I don't mind what it is. Everyone scumhunts (or pretends to) in their own way. What I don't like is that she thinks she made a definite stance on Gob with her numbers. 60/40 is a large margin to go either way with your read. I won't call it fence-sitting but calling Gob scum/VI isn't really taking a stance on his alignment. So what do you think Accountant, is Gob town or scum?
About your scumread on Veegee; is it still based on his 116? What exactly did you think was scummy about that post?

Gob, I think you're most likely scum, and if you aren't then you're fucking around and need to stop. Is that clear enough for you?

How does this work with the numbers you put down earlier? Do they need adjusting?

This is all for now, I'd like a flip to compare to Accountants reds/thoughts to sort her more.

[Wanderer-nl]

Need to go out for some shopping (ugh, birthdays..) but will be back for more reading. If there's anything anyone wants me to comment on specifically, let me know.

[gob]

Alright thank you Dessew.

Anyway, i have 100% with VeeGee on this, vijay2's posts seem to be pulled out of his ass or half-assed. With that said however, i

do not

think he is scum at this time (and i doubt VeeGee thinks that either), his posts arent exactly ones that would slide under the radar.
Though i really wish he would actually give more of a shit here.

This makes no sense at all. You agree with Veegee about not liking Vijay's tone, and then that makes him town, and also instead of asking Veegee what exactly he meant or didn't like, you're just going to assume he's not scumreading Vijay. And then the next day you make your readslist (94) and there you seem to be scumreading Veegee for something that happened in 71 which was before you agreed with Veegee. Other than that you call Hopkirk town and Trivium your first scumread. What do you mean by 'first scumread'? All the other reads are not even reads, but you trying to post something so you'll look like you thought things through.
You say you are trying to move the game forward, but how about asking questions to find out why players are doing something? That would be more helpful then posting a weird readslist where you barely take a stance. Hopkirk is a boring townread and Trivium, iirc, is also quiet so you're doing

exactly

what you were accusing Veegee of.
242 Players have asked you why you think Veegee and Accountant are scum, but you decide to take a look at Klingon's iso out of nowhere. Flippant much yourself? Or just trying to get people to focus on someone else besides you?
Gob isn't shy about outing townreads, however with some of them he finds something to add that gives an opening later to change his mind on said townread. Like calling Accountant town, but also bringing up she's fence-sitting and rolefishing. And I really don't like his tone towards Hopkirk, since he was townreading him. I'd think Gob as town would be more cooperative with a townread.

I'm pretty sure my vote is going here but I want to read some more iso's so will hold off voting for now.

I'll stop you at the beginning, i said multiple times i agreed with veegee on

vidjay's tone

but i read it differently. Veegee read it as a Scum read while i read it as a Town read. I stated this multiple times. It makes plenty of sense, Vidjay (at the time) had a bored tone, making me think he was just a VT that wasnt enjoying the game.

[stoz]

Haschel, out of your #281 on Accountant I think the thing that I dislike most is the "everyone read me", because it would only really help down if Accountant was under a lot of pressure (which she isn't).

I buy what Accountant says about the numbers (#usernamechecksout), I think people push too hard against numbers (I guess because I posted numbers in another game and everyone jumped on me).

I'm interested to see what Wanderer-nl says and to see who replaces St Constantine.

[stoz]

Sorry, totally missed Wanderer-nl's posts, I only saw Havingfitz at the top of the "new posts since you started typing" page.

No one should be surprised that Wanderer finds gob scum, it is the only competing wagon to the one on VeeGee / herself.

As I observed at the end of my last game, in both games I have played 3 people replaced out and 2 of those were scum. Now I know that isn't a big sample size, but also note that one of the scum that replaced out in my last game was VeeGee himself, and here we are all over again. I'll still happily lynch Wanderer, and a gob town flip would only further cement that.

[Accountant]

So what do you think Accountant, is Gob town or scum?

I think that he's scum, but he's not my top scumread(that's Wanderer still). If gob flips scum, Dessew is almost certainly scum; if gob flips town, at least one of the people on his lynch is almost certainly scum.

If Wanderer defends herself competently, I would not be unwilling to switch trains to gob. I really find it suspicious that VeeGee replaced out as the heavy prrssure piled on, but gob is sufficiently scummy, and his flip would give us a sufficiently large amount of information, that I don't think he's a bad lynch candidate at all.

[Wanderer-nl]

*snip*
I'll stop you at the beginning, i said multiple times i agreed with veegee on

vidjay's tone

but i read it differently. Veegee read it as a Scum read while i read it as a Town read. I stated this multiple times. It makes plenty of sense, Vidjay (at the time) had a bored tone, making me think he was just a VT that wasnt enjoying the game.

Ehm no, you said you didn't see it as scum and 'doubted Veegee did either' so you are backtracking. Also the 'bored VT' is the first time you use it on Vijay, there is nothing earlier that points to you thinking that about Vijay.

@stoz: Can you comment on what I said about Gob?

@Accountant: you failed to answer my other question which was if you're still scumreading my slot because of post 116. Please do that.

[gob]

*snip*
I'll stop you at the beginning, i said multiple times i agreed with veegee on

vidjay's tone

but i read it differently. Veegee read it as a Scum read while i read it as a Town read. I stated this multiple times. It makes plenty of sense, Vidjay (at the time) had a bored tone, making me think he was just a VT that wasnt enjoying the game.

Ehm no, you said you didn't see it as scum and 'doubted Veegee did either' so you are backtracking. Also the 'bored VT' is the first time you use it on Vijay, there is nothing earlier that points to you thinking that about Vijay.

I do not believe this is the first time i referred to Vidjay as a VT. I could be mistaken but i have very much thought it most of day 1. I doubted VeeGee saw it as scum, but as shown later, s/he did.

What are your thoughts on vidjay? in full.

[Wanderer-nl]

I read Haschel, Dessew and Vijay. Haschel can be town and I won't waste time explaining why. Dessew I need to reread because I can't make up my mind on one read-through. Vijay I have read twice now because I was asked.
So, Vijay. I feel like he is here but he's not really in the game. I don't really see him take stances, he asks vague questions which he doesn't follow up on. I don't like how he's avoiding looking at you, gob. But he definitely doesn't look like a 'bored VT' to me.

58 Taking sort of a stance but not quite committing to it.
59 Oh wait nvm, there's no stance just something he put out there to never get back on.
70 Ofc he does, but what specifically?
73 I'm interpreting this to mean he wants Veegee to commit to a scumread by voting. It's a push in the right direction, I guess, but again something that doesn't get followed up on properly.
114 Throwing something 'out there' (in the thread, that is) but not taking a stance and not trying to figure it out any further.
124 Saying 'town' instead of 'we/us' always pings me and makes me want to keep close attention to any slot that does it.
133 While I agree with Vijay that Veegee could have done more up to that point, I don't see why Vijay thinks Veegee's behaviour/inactivity is alignment indicative.
136 I don't like this vote placement. And what relational analysis in a closed game with no flips yet do you think you can find?
142 I'm starting to get bothered by his droppings of Trivium/Hermit voting themselves, I feel like Vijay is trying to set this slot up to be a misslynch.
180 What do you hate about that post?
275 The most important finding is that he supposedly can't count, how is that alignment indicative? And you really didn't find anything else?
The posts after this is Vijay being busy/pretending to be active/fluffing.
Oh and Vijay, what's the rush to end this Day?

I could vote here too today.

[Wanderer-nl]

I'm tired now, I'll be back soon.

[gob]

You need to look at context, i dont think he looks like a bored VT now, i think he fixed his play up. But i think he did, and if you dont, im surprised.

[SamX]

CONCLUSION:
Gob is vanilla townie : 0%
Gob is power role : 5% given his known meta for acting somewhat unbalanced as a PR
Gob is a clueless town member: 40%
Gob is scum: 60%
Gob is most likely VI/scum.

Just not sure as to how you've come up with the numbers. I think it's a good thing that players like you are able to come to these conclusions. But a little blurb of why you think gob is x% would be nice to back it up. It's like when companies advertise their product and says "80% cleaner than x brand!!" In that case, I'd be asking in what ways cleaner. How does it make it cleaner? This company is literally throwing out some numbers and shit and I don't know why or how they back up their claim. Same goes for you. Maybe I'm missing it while I read though. If that is the case (that you've said why), please link.

[Wanderer-nl]

@gob: I don't agree he ever looked bored, maybe I should have been here following it in real-time. Where did Vijay stop looking bored to you?

Going to continue iso's now.

[Radja]

DAY 1, VOTECOUNT 9

Wanderer-nl(5)

-

Accountant, vijay2vasandani, SamX, stoz, gob

gob (4)

-

havingfitz, Hopkirk, Klingoncelt, texcat

St Constantine the Hermit (1)

-

St Constantine the Hermit

stoz (1)

-

Dessew

Accountant (1)

-

Haschel Cedricson

Not Voting (1)

-

Wanderer-nl

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch! Deadline is on September 5th at 08:00 PM(GMT+1) or in (expired on 2015-09-05 08:00:00).

Mod Notes:
Still looking for a replacement for St Constantine the Hermit
Dessew is on V/LA until Friday, September 4

[Wanderer-nl]

So far I've read Klingon, stoz, Hopkirk, SamX and Trivium/Hermit. The last slot isn't doing anything at all, the others don't have anything that really stands out enough to talk about at this time of the Day.

I need to clear my head, I might do the last iso's before sleep.

[Wanderer-nl]

Ok, I'm going to try to get the last iso's done before sleep so I can put down a vote when I get up.

[gob]

@gob: I don't agree he ever looked bored, maybe I should have been here following it in real-time. Where did Vijay stop looking bored to you?

Going to continue iso's now.

Around post #113, but now re-reading it does seem like he was caring a bit more before, but back in real time he seemed to care less than others.

[Wanderer-nl]

texcat: Nothing really stands out until 314 where he moves his vote to Hermit and then in 329 moves it back to gob. While in 311 he's recapping his scumread on gob and there's also 316 This iso makes me want to reread gob.
@texcat: Why did you vote Hermit there for a while?

Dessew: There is a lot in his iso that has nothing to do with scumhunting or is alignment indicative in any way (English lessons, really?) He has defended gob so blatantly that if gob does flip scum, Dessew would be highly associated. That adds to my already slight doubt on my gob scumread.
@Dessew: What was your goal when you said gob only had 3 reads (138)?

Going to reread gob now to complete these reads.

[vijay2vasandani]

I read Haschel, Dessew and Vijay. Haschel can be town and I won't waste time explaining why. Dessew I need to reread because I can't make up my mind on one read-through. Vijay I have read twice now because I was asked.
So, Vijay. I feel like he is here but he's not really in the game. I don't really see him take stances, he asks vague questions which he doesn't follow up on. I don't like how he's avoiding looking at you, gob. But he definitely doesn't look like a 'bored VT' to me.

58 Taking sort of a stance but not quite committing to it.
59 Oh wait nvm, there's no stance just something he put out there to never get back on.
70 Ofc he does, but what specifically?
73 I'm interpreting this to mean he wants Veegee to commit to a scumread by voting. It's a push in the right direction, I guess, but again something that doesn't get followed up on properly.
114 Throwing something 'out there' (in the thread, that is) but not taking a stance and not trying to figure it out any further.
124 Saying 'town' instead of 'we/us' always pings me and makes me want to keep close attention to any slot that does it.
133 While I agree with Vijay that Veegee could have done more up to that point, I don't see why Vijay thinks Veegee's behaviour/inactivity is alignment indicative.
136 I don't like this vote placement. And what relational analysis in a closed game with no flips yet do you think you can find?
142 I'm starting to get bothered by his droppings of Trivium/Hermit voting themselves, I feel like Vijay is trying to set this slot up to be a misslynch.
180 What do you hate about that post?
275 The most important finding is that he supposedly can't count, how is that alignment indicative? And you really didn't find anything else?
The posts after this is Vijay being busy/pretending to be active/fluffing.
Oh and Vijay, what's the rush to end this Day?

I could vote here too today.

pretty sure i have a stance and it's that you're scum. also sure it's the reason i want to end the day with your lynch

[Wanderer-nl]

I've reread gob and I haven't really changed my mind about anything I wrote earlier about him. I'm going to sleep on this because my head is overflowing right now.

@gob: What are your thoughts on the other things I said about Vijay?

@Vijay: Humour me. Answer my questions to you despite your scumread on me/my slot. Please.

[texcat]

texcat: Nothing really stands out until 314 where he moves his vote to Hermit and then in 329 moves it back to gob. While in 311 he's recapping his scumread on gob and there's also 316 This iso makes me want to reread gob.
@texcat: Why did you vote Hermit there for a while?

Shrug. I was hoping some pressure would get him to do something, anything. When he asked for replacement, I moved back to Gob.

[havingfitz]

I'm here. Nothing really to say at the moment. I like my gob vote.

I believe gob is at L-3 and Wanderer is at L-2.

This caught my attention.
In 224 you ask several questions and a quick skim tells me none were answered. How do you feel about that? You also said you were caught up to post 193 there, do you have any comments on posts/reads after that?
Have you been able to iso Dessew or did you decide to not do it after all?

I gave my reads in 224. They haven't changed. I also mention that I no longer feel the need to ISO Dessew in post 224. I'm having a hard time keepoing up in my games atm so no...I haven't doubled back yet on questions. If I get time I might. tbd

[Haschel Cedricson]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p7189127]2) Haschel, what are your feelings on Gob and VeeGee? If you have already posted them, please link so I can see.[/quote]
I think both of them are scummy, although neither is my preferred lynch for today.

My strongest scumreads are, in no particular order, Accountant, Dessew, Gob, and VeeGee/Wanderer; the bigger problem is I know they can't all be scum together.

Tonight's relatively busy; I'll try to see if things fall into place tomorrow after work.