Mini 1699 - #swag wars: THE empire strikes back (swaggedout)

[fferyllt]

All kinds of things could have happened. A skipped kill to appear a vig as long as possible? because his n2 kill was blocked? Or maybe it was the scum kill that was blocked (tammy was JK'd) and his kill was S-s.

[fferyllt]

Why would scum-nacho who would basically know the 3p at that point in time basically throw his life away to him?

he wouldn't know 3p vs vig though, unless the scum team is 2 players. Which is why I wanted to look at day 1 again and see if he appeared to be genuinely scumhunting in retrospect.

[Wickedestjr]

and yet you didn't do anything in terms of actually working with anyone or appealing to anyone to get votes on him - you know, the kind of thing town actually does when trying to get someone lynched

1. I can't think of anyone that actually did this.
2. I have voted for several people throughout the course of this game and never appealed for support for any of them. It's not just the Nacho vote.
3. Barring rare circumstances where I am almost certain that somebody is scum, I will never appeal for support (a few years ago, I used to put

so much

effort into convincing people and even when I was right I could never get support, people wouldn't friggin listen, so I've given up on that aspect of this game).
4. My suspicion of Nacho was never

that

strong. I'm not going to pretend to be more confident than I actually am. Aside from POE/gut, I had one point against him, hardly something to scream about. If huge cases don't work, then a single point sure won't work either.
5. It was obvious that one of {Nacho, Oversoul} was going to get lynched and even though I suspected Nacho more throughout the course of yesterday, I'll admit I wouldn't be angry about my second top suspect getting lynched instead. There was no point in arguing because it was obvious Nacho/Oversoul would get rope, it only took so long because we were waiting on people to post (Nacho, Oversoul, Tammy, etc.).

the entire crux of your Nacho push was that you didn't believe his RC read flop at the end of D2 and that was it, which is incredibly weak in terms of actual reasoning for him being scum.

You're calling my vote weak, but your suspicion of me is largely based on POE. Why can't I rely on POE too?

I think your interactions with Nacho make sense as scum distancing. what, exactly, is the problem here?

It felt like you presented my interactions with Nacho as a point against me rather than ruling it out as a reason to townread me. Again, I'm not saying you should townread me for my Nacho vote, I was very well capable of bussing him in the way that I did. It just feels like you're trying to make me look bad for something that is null, using points against me that are more applicable to others.

TL;DR- If you think my interactions with Nacho point toward me being scum, then your reasons are illegitimate. If you think my interactions with Nacho are null, then I agree wholeheartedly, but don't see why you mentioned it if it

was

null for you...

[Wickedestjr]

Obviously something I cannot do because I've been town reading them for most of the game. NS is mostly a POE scum read at this point. Pretty sure RC is in the same boat as I am. All I can do is defend the allegations against myself.

yes, the entire point is that you'd hopefully look into it in more depth and try to figure out why his play actually makes sense coming from scum

cos I don't remotely see it

Nope, I'm not the kind of player that does that. If I had a strong townread on someone, and then POE makes me change my mind, then I'm not going to reread them to convince myself they're scum - that sounds awfully confbiasy.

You should get to know me before making all these assumptions.

[Wickedestjr]

UNVOTE: No Lynch; VOTE: Wicked

I have no idea how to scumhunt anymore.

Clearly.

I think you're town and this vote actually makes me more comfortable saying that, but I'm pretty disappointed by this. You may have given up, but I haven't and I didn't play for >120 pages and >45 days to get mis-lynched in MyLo so easily - there's zero resistance to the thought of lynching me. If you're town, this is unfair (both to me and any other townies that care) and I know that you should unvote.

Why isn't it Pie/NS?

[Wickedestjr]

implosion, if you were/are an SK, who would you have killed night 1?

[fferyllt]

implosion, if you were/are an SK, who would you have killed night 1?

this question looks really out of touch with what apparently happened on n1.

ugh

[Wickedestjr]

I don't understand what you're saying...

[fferyllt]

he claimed the gnomeo kill.

[Wickedestjr]

He's also claiming vigilante (which is exactly what he'd claim as SK). I am trying to figure out if the Gnomeo kill is a tell that he's vig rather than SK. I want to know if he claims that he would have targeted someone else as SK. Not sure what the problem is...


For what it's worth, if there's an SK, then I think it's 3-1-9

anyway

. So I'm not really convinced by the implosion-vig argument. I agree that it makes more sense for him to be a vigilante, but it's close and I'm not confident enough to rule out SK because his detached/passive early play makes more sense as SK than it does for 2-shot vigilante.

2-1-10 seems incredibly swingy (I haven't seen that in a very long time) and Empire's savvy enough not to make such a horrible setup as that.

[fferyllt]

It's a strange way to word the question, but it's not as worldview-wrecking as what I thought you were asking. So, yay?

[Wickedestjr]

Okay.

[notscience]

Wicked, do you think if everyone else had a general consensus I was scum and noone was countering it, that would mean I'm town?

[Wickedestjr]

Oh forgot to ask. @Pie (and I guess anyone else that has issue with my Nacho push) - if I switched my vote to Oversoul at the end of the day to protect Nacho then why would I justify it with "Oversoul's my top suspect now" rather than "I'm so sick of this day, compromise voting OS" ? The latter is an easier to explain rationale that also doesn't require me to admit that my suspicion of Nacho weakened...

This doesn't mean much considering I'm the one asking it, but I am curious what you have to say about it.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, do you think if everyone else had a general consensus I was scum and noone was countering it, that would mean I'm town?

Not necessarily, no. I would consider that a poor argument.

I'm guessing 3104 inspired this question. I didn't mention the fact that "there's no resistance" to convince RC that I'm town (because it's null), but to convince him that there's no rush to cast a vote because everyone wants me dead anyway. I know that I'm a mislynch, so of course I don't want RC to rush like this.

[notscience]

Why is he the one you're most worried about when it seems like everyone else feels of their own accord you're scum?

Ffery's waiting for implo and I'm waiting for fery, so i don't understand why you're worried about rushing or something.

[Wickedestjr]

I think he thought he'd get read as town for the Nacho push (which is how he's been acting).

This is 100% false. I've clearly stated multiple times today that my Nacho vote isn't something I should necessarily be townread for. Thanks for reading

I'm insulted if you honestly think this was an earn town credit endeavor.

[Wickedestjr]

Why is he the one you're most worried about when it seems like everyone else feels of their own accord you're scum?

Ffery's waiting for implo and I'm waiting for fery, so i don't understand why you're worried about rushing or something.

Um because he's the one voting me.

[Wickedestjr]

Duh?

(I certainly haven't ignored the other people scum reading me)

[implosion]

I think I probably wouldn't go for a vig claim as a SK. I'd probably just kill someone who was suspicious of me but I don't remember being under any suspicion at that point in the game, so I guess I'd just kill a generic threat like ffery.

Gonna try to get to formulating the RC thoughts in probably an hour.

[Wickedestjr]

Looking back, RC-scum still doesn't really make sense considering Nacho's behavior wrt him. Nacho defended him for half the game then all of a sudden suspected him. Doesn't make sense as scum v scum.

[Wickedestjr]

I think I probably wouldn't go for a vig claim as a SK. I'd probably just kill someone who was suspicious of me but I don't remember being under any suspicion at that point in the game, so I guess I'd just kill a generic threat like ffery.

Why would you consider this optimal?

[Wickedestjr]

Gnight

[pieguyn]

I think I probably wouldn't go for a vig claim as a SK. I'd probably just kill someone who was suspicious of me but I don't remember being under any suspicion at that point in the game, so I guess I'd just kill a generic threat like ffery.

I have to sleep early but in other news, there's 0 way this is a 9-3-1 setup even if RC is town (just JK, rolecop, miller is nowhere near enough power for a 9-3-1 setup. if you're running 9-3-1 you have to have a *lot* of strong town roles). it's either 10-3 or 10-2-1.

[fferyllt]

9-3-1 mini normal game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29652

2-shot joat
odd night doctor
inno child
6 VT

3 mafia goons

SK with 1 shot commute