Mini 1699 - #swag wars: THE empire strikes back (swaggedout)

[notscience]

But let's be real here, wicked

It's not "why am I scumreading x"

It's "why am I townreading everyone but x"

[notscience]

Also, if you're going to expect to try and say I can fake emotion like that as scum you better go find some stuff to back it up.

[fferyllt]

Why do I think RC was the centerfold of Oversoul getting lynched? How vehemently he pushed it. How he started to discredit when pie and I linked up to vote Nacho.

Well I will tell you flat out I won't go picking an argument with a friend like that for no reason as scum, let alone my buddy. You're welcome to check, but I highly doubt you'll find one. Scumgames of mine- Disney Upick, Survivor Mafia, Plants vs Zombies, Nightingale's Tale, Whatever bulge's large normal was, and you can find more in my ego search.

Ffery, when you've seen me scum, do I ever?

(Hint: the only time I've ever gotten that aggressive was a game long ago that I refused to replicate after. And that was with ETL, let alone pie.)

Generally when I've faked emotion as scum (which hasn't really happened in a while) it was based off of me reading into other people's emotions, knowing they're town and seeing the tvts tear me apart. (This was PvZ.) Especially in recent times, I've tried to withhold some of my emotion, because so many games have gotten to just toxic nightmares.

I replaced into the slot you were tunneling so I remember that game vividly! The emotion I remember you faking in the FF10 game was a sort of deer in the headlights confusion (which I've seen you exhibit as town). During mid-late day 1 and parts of day 2 I worried at times you were doing something similar here, but basically starting with your interactions with S-s I mostly stopped worrying about that.

And we have ffery saying that pie not being able ot fake that emotion was the centerfold of Nacho's towncase on her another game, so what do you think? And let's look at how long it took her to snap out and realize the emotion and compare it to Bins's Mini normal- she could tell right as she got in the thread what was happening and yanked the brake. Here, she was so caught up in her tunnel she had to come back and see it.

Did you take a look at that game?

[notscience]

No, I've been wrapped up, but I think you're town so something something taking your word for it until then something.

Have you seen me actually replicate that since then?

[fferyllt]

Not in games I played or read.

Iso nacho to see how often he mentioned RC on day 3.

[notscience]

It feels like he talks about him a ton.

In comparison he talked about me and pie very little.

[fferyllt]

I don't have anything to contribute at this time. It's clear that neither Oversoul nor Nacho will happen until Tammy gets back. Oversoul is in full blown hiding under the desk mode here. ffrey doesn't have the guts to stand up for her convictions (whatever these may be, she is so adept at hiding her actual intentions here that it's scary ... with the exception of her latest "getting scummy vibes from implosion" which is completely unhelpful in our current situation). notscience is still presumably siding with pie (remember when he was convinced she was scum...?) I doubt Tammy will bring anything new to the thread that we haven't already heard before.

*goes back to watching the countdown timer tick down while we wait for Tammy*

It's amazing how much creditability ffrey has lost with me over the course of this day. She was literally, like, my number 2 or 3 townie at the start of today. Unless Nacho flips scum (or Oversoul flips town), she is totally on my lynch list at this point. She is running a clinic on how to act townie in a technicial sense, but completely come across as scummy on a gut, intuitive level, if that makes sense.

Look at this post. he just happens to lay out 2 conditions for dropping his scumread on me that both turned out to be true. :/

I just don't get the point of this as a scum strategy for next day phase.

[notscience]

Nacho had a scumpool of me/pie/wicked/oversoul

Do you think he put both scumbuds in there? Because I really don't.

Also-

I need to go back and check, but going out of day 1, do you remember where your mind was regarding who to push?

[notscience]

Do you think pie would be able to fake that engagement with me fery?

[fferyllt]

Not precisely. I ended day 1 with a lot of worries. I know I wanted more engagement from you, nacho and pie, I was concerned about RC's hammer post and about layla's fade. And I still had concerns about cheetory.

[notscience]

So if Nacho's really good at recognizing your thought patterns and all of that do you think he'd anticipate RC's hammer would tip you off?

[fferyllt]

Do you think pie would be able to fake that engagement with me fery?

I don't.

I feel like I ruled out 2-1-10 based on Nacho's day 1, or I'd be worrying pretty hard about wicked as final scum and Implosion as SK rather than looking for 2 nacho partners.

I wish I felt more confident about my reads.

[fferyllt]

So if Nacho's really good at recognizing your thought patterns and all of that do you think he'd anticipate RC's hammer would tip you off?

maybe. I have a tendency to focus on weird stuff at end of day and assume weird-scummy rather than weird town initially. When we hydra he usually talks me out of some end of day kneejerks that I'd otherwise take a while to let go.

[notscience]

What do you think of wicked's stuff recently?

[fferyllt]

Day 3, Nacho talked about RC a lot TO Wicked, going over hisw reasons for his read flip on day 2. he didn't respond directly to RC much comparatively.

he also ignored you and pie. I think the only reason he focused on me at all was because I voted him and basically demanded he do somethng more than argue with Wicked. he also focused on Implosion as possible scum, and casebuilding to lynch Oversoul.

[fferyllt]

What do you think of wicked's stuff recently?

he sounds out of steam.

[notscience]

I don't know why he avoided that situation like the plague.

pedit-

Yeah.

Namely his post on the last page- he's going after my RC "read" when I'm pretty sure I've made it abundantly obvious it just boils down to me thinking you and pie are both town and that means those two have to be scum.

[implosion]

Maybe I am being a bit lazy by saying I'm fine with a Wicked lynch but PoE is PoE. I might be going on different things but my reads on NS and RC haven't changed and I feel somewhat better about pie and ffery than Wicked.

And regardless, I still see no reason not to NL.

VOTE: No Lynch

[implosion]

(And ffery is right that this day is going in circles more so than previous days)

[pieguyn]

Pie, you've ignored me.

at this point, I don't really give a shit about arguing back and forth with you over specifics. it's as I said before: if you want to convince me you're town, the way to do so at this point is to show me exactly what in notsci/ffery's play I'm missing here.

and no, it doesn't matter to me that it's not something that you'd usually do as town or that it'd likely come across as confbias. I'm well aware that if you read someone's posts with the precognition that they're scum you're likely going to point out a bunch of shit that doesn't actually mean anything. but I think I'm more than capable of distinguishing these arguments from arguments that actually hold water, and that I'd be able to see it if you point out something that *does* actually make either of them scum here. and I also think I'm more than capable of reading these types of posts and figuring out if it could be coming from town (secret endgame tell: scum in this position will often build cases significantly differently than town do).

you can't expect me to see that you're town here when you're not even trying to cooperate and instead handwaving it. and in the first place, if you can't come up with any scum team not including you that doesn't include me either (which appears to be the case), then I don't know what the point of this conversation is.

[pieguyn]

What do you think of wicked's stuff recently?

he sounds out of steam.

yep

[notscience]

Fery I want to lynch RC.

please send help.

[fferyllt]

Why RC over Wicked?

[RedCoyote]

implosion, you don't think you'll just eat the bullet with a NL? That's the only reason I originally subscribed to the idea, because I wasn't initially sure about your alignment. I'm convinced you're town now, however.

To the peanut gallery, I don't know what other angle I can come at everyone from. I gave them meta, multiple instances of meta that syncs up precisely with my current town mindset, I tried to spell out how the setup, in particular another role that would work off of the role cop per Empire's penchant for twists in his investigative role (see BEES!!! especially), I tried admitting my own mistakes this game and I even tried thinly-veiled AtE. I don't think I was a very strong town player this game, so it's unfair to expect me to do a 180 from that. I think the scumteam is in the stronger position, especially given the fact that these three are all very close with one another on a personal level, which no doubt plays its own factor in the process.

What makes it all the more frustrating is I know a few days from now the person that mislynches me is going to be kicking themselves saying that they should've listened a bit more to their intuition rather than their ego. And believe me, when ffrey says

we're townreading each other and looking in the players we don't know well for scum

that is ego talking. Whether she recognizes it or not, this affects her scumhunting. All three of them have said some form of this, too. Talk about sapping someone's energy to finish the game out.

But, it's like, I don't really think I'm a bad lynch from the perspective of which player looks the most scummy. Even in games I play well it's often said that I come across very scummy (ask Tammy). That's something that has plagued me throughout my Mafia career. I guess I'm just making this post because I don't want to give off the vibe that I am just sitting here waiting for the inevitable. I literally don't know what else I could do to make lynching someone else more palatable. I don't think the answer lies in massive walls that go back over the post history. I certainly don't think the answer lies in VCA given the players that are still living.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: I tried to spell out how the setup, in particular another role that would work off of the role cop per Empire's penchant for twists in his investigative role (see BEES!!! especially),

gives me a unique town position as the only remaining claimed non-VT role