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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:05 am

Post by pistachi0n »

In post 118, WoodyWoodpecker wrote:
In post 107, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 98, Thor665 wrote:
In post 97, WoodyWoodpecker wrote:You town read Bella off 5 posts? Uh OK...

I townread you off two and you didn't call me out - what is the issue?


It sounds like he's biased because the town read is on him and he doesn't want to screw that up by calling you out.

No it doesn't, I already answered his question though...

Why haven't you posted anything else? Why ignore everything else going on?


What would you like me to comment on?
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:12 am

Post by KarmicGuide »

In post 117, Thor665 wrote:Let's lynch Ciara - her answers feel wonky to me and not like she's trying to assess me, but rather toss some dirt on me. Note that her last post wherein she becomes aware that she is tossing dirt...she doesn't follow it up with other questions to assess me. She just acts like she's been made aware of something and moves on and does nothing else.

The train is leaving the tracks, hop on quick.


I like the idea of day 1 Ciara lynch. IRL, I can respect putting college before mafia, and if that's what's going on, that's what's going on. But in the context of mafia, Ciara has felt lurky, and I agree that the scumhunting from her has been weak.

I'll sheep your vote. Let the pressure begin!

UNVOTE: WoodyWoodpecker I went and read a town game of yours last night, and this is basically how you played that game, too... you seem very agitated to me, but who knows what that means. I still would not be adverse to lynching you today. You've interacted with a lot of people, and you flipping scum would practically be game over.

VOTE: Ciara
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:17 am

Post by WoodyWoodpecker »

In post 122, Thor665 wrote:You should sheep me.

I don't trust you, why would I sheep you?

You should actually sheep me since I'm actually voting near confirmed scum. No way town does what karmic did
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:18 am

Post by WoodyWoodpecker »

In post 125, pistachi0n wrote:What would you like me to comment on?

For starters, you could have answered my questions...
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:20 am

Post by WoodyWoodpecker »

In post 126, KarmicGuide wrote:u seem very agitated to me,

Well I did pretty much catch you in a lie about me, so my agitation is justified
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:04 am

Post by Garmr »

In post 126, KarmicGuide wrote:
In post 117, Thor665 wrote:Let's lynch Ciara - her answers feel wonky to me and not like she's trying to assess me, but rather toss some dirt on me. Note that her last post wherein she becomes aware that she is tossing dirt...she doesn't follow it up with other questions to assess me. She just acts like she's been made aware of something and moves on and does nothing else.

The train is leaving the tracks, hop on quick.


I like the idea of day 1 Ciara lynch. IRL, I can respect putting college before mafia, and if that's what's going on, that's what's going on. But in the context of mafia, Ciara has felt lurky, and I agree that the scumhunting from her has been weak.

I'll sheep your vote. Let the pressure begin!

UNVOTE: WoodyWoodpecker I went and read a town game of yours last night, and this is basically how you played that game, too... you seem very agitated to me, but who knows what that means. I still would not be adverse to lynching you today. You've interacted with a lot of people, and you flipping scum would practically be game over.

VOTE: Ciara

I don't like this post to say some one is lurky after only a couple of days RL is unjustified and reachy.
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:54 am

Post by pistachi0n »

In post 128, WoodyWoodpecker wrote:
In post 125, pistachi0n wrote:What would you like me to comment on?

For starters, you could have answered my questions...


Are you talking about ? I thought that was a rhetorical question. No, honesty is not scummy. It's scummy to call attention to yourself being a bad player early in the game because it sets up plausible deniability if you do something scummy.
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:55 am

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Garmr appears to have not seen . I wonder if I commented on a scumslip?

Bella, nice way to dodge the question in your response to . How was Nacho's response strange, and how does it help you read him? And I noticed that you call my non-vote scummier but then emulate my behavior. Did you think it was scummy, or are you just trying to motivate me to take a more confrontational approach?
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:01 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 131, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 128, WoodyWoodpecker wrote:
In post 125, pistachi0n wrote:What would you like me to comment on?

For starters, you could have answered my questions...


Are you talking about ? I thought that was a rhetorical question. No, honesty is not scummy. It's scummy to call attention to yourself being a bad player early in the game because it sets up plausible deniability if you do something scummy.


Do you think being self-deprecating like that is scummy by itself, or would you also need to see it being used as an excuse later?
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:10 pm

Post by WoodyWoodpecker »

In post 131, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 128, WoodyWoodpecker wrote:
In post 125, pistachi0n wrote:What would you like me to comment on?

For starters, you could have answered my questions...


Are you talking about ? I thought that was a rhetorical question. No, honesty is not scummy. It's scummy to call attention to yourself being a bad player early in the game because it sets up plausible deniability if you do something scummy.

Does everyone here have trouble reading? You quoted the questions I asked you in post 125.

I call BS on the plausible deniability angle you are pushing cause nobody should ever take my own word for it and my ability is easily searchable by looking at my past games. To save you some time I can tell you what you'd find if you did that. The game I played with nacho (just basing off memory) that's the game where I was under pressure late game and I was able to keep focused and scum gave up and admitted defeat. That explains why nacho probably thinks I'm a good player cause I basically won that game. You'll also find 2 games where I claimed prematurely day 1 and ended up hurting town in both games, II think town lost both those games also and I never got to use my roles. The other games don't really stand out in my mind so I'd have to do skim.those again.

I don't see why me being honest about my ability bothers anyone, have I once tried to use that as an excuse? No, would I expect people to let me get away with it if I tried? Absolutely not. So you are suspicious of me for a null issue. Why not find something actually scummy? there's people who have done things that fit that criteria. Like a person lying about another person when the evidence is clearly visible to say otherwise. Or a player who accused another player of something based of an assumption rather than taking the time to find out the actual reasons for their vote?

If you are town, do better. If you are scum, carry on, I'll figure out which eventually
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:44 pm

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Sorry everyone I'm really late to the party, RL has not been kind to me. It may be a little inappropriate coming so late in the game, but first, a few pleasantries! Skip over to the third paragraph/after the meta-links if you're looking for thoughts and content.

Hi Bellaphant! Good to be playing with you again. And hi to Nachomamma8 and Thor665! You don't know me, but I've been lurkreading Mafiascum games for a bit and read many of the completed past games. You guys are like legends to me, and I'm really excited to be able to play and learn from you two in this game! As a quick introduction also, I'm a newbie who's been reading and recently decided to start playing, have one completed newbie under my belt and this is my first non-newbie game. If you'd like to meta me from my previous game (VT) here's a link to the game and one to the dead thread with many of my thought processes:

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Anyway, here's my thoughts on reading through the game. It'd be rather brief as I'm a little pressed for time, will address any concerns or questions as much as I can though! davesaz looks townie to me so far from his posting, and I'm okay with Woody and Thor665 too. Nacho feels alright to me though I'm not too sure so far.

There's a couple of things that have caught my attention, and I have questions for a few people.

@Ciara24, I dislike your entire back-and-forth discussion with Thor665 and the feel of the rest of your posts. It would be mostly a gut read, but one thing stood out to me: the part where you state his vote is a reaction test on you and proceed to try to make little of it (in my eyes) or devalue it.

I can't seem to find any pro-town value in this -
Ciara, could you explain to me why you found it important to point out that Thor665's vote on you was a reaction test?


Secondly,

KarmicGuide wrote:
In post 117, Thor665 wrote:Let's lynch Ciara - her answers feel wonky to me and not like she's trying to assess me, but rather toss some dirt on me. Note that her last post wherein she becomes aware that she is tossing dirt...she doesn't follow it up with other questions to assess me. She just acts like she's been made aware of something and moves on and does nothing else.

The train is leaving the tracks, hop on quick.


I like the idea of day 1 Ciara lynch. IRL, I can respect putting college before mafia, and if that's what's going on, that's what's going on. But in the context of mafia, Ciara has felt lurky, and I agree that the scumhunting from her has been weak.

I'll sheep your vote. Let the pressure begin!

UNVOTE: WoodyWoodpecker I went and read a town game of yours last night, and this is basically how you played that game, too... you seem very agitated to me, but who knows what that means. I still would not be adverse to lynching you today. You've interacted with a lot of people, and you flipping scum would practically be game over.

VOTE: Ciara


This post. I dislike it very much. It feels very opportunistic to me, and pushing lurking as a reason for voting is rather weak. You also point out that you are sheeping, but yet find it important to put another reason for sheeping - lurking.
KarmicGuide, why not vote me (who hasn't posted at all), eventi (who's posted barely anything), Radja or even Nacho (who hasn't posted in a long while) for "lurking"? I also dislike your initial interactions with Woody. Lynching him because him flipping scum would practically be game over? Why, do you think he's formed many associative tells with others and implicated the scumteam? Who do you think is scum then if he flips scum?


I think you're just setting up reasons to switch to a Woody lynch should your chosen wagon not pan out. VOTE: KarmicGuide
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:50 pm

Post by pistachi0n »

In post 133, davesaz wrote:
In post 131, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 128, WoodyWoodpecker wrote:
In post 125, pistachi0n wrote:What would you like me to comment on?

For starters, you could have answered my questions...


Are you talking about ? I thought that was a rhetorical question. No, honesty is not scummy. It's scummy to call attention to yourself being a bad player early in the game because it sets up plausible deniability if you do something scummy.


Do you think being self-deprecating like that is scummy by itself, or would you also need to see it being used as an excuse later?


It would definitely be more scummy if it were used as an excuse later. I think it's only mildly scummy by itself.
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:52 pm

Post by pistachi0n »

In post 134, WoodyWoodpecker wrote:Does everyone here have trouble reading? You quoted the questions I asked you in post 125.


Those questions. I'm sorry. You're currently the most interesting thing going on and I'm still forming my thoughts about everything else. I responded by asking you if there was anything specifically you wanted me to comment on, meaning the rest of the game.
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:18 pm

Post by zakk »

EXPERIMENT NOTES 1.6


SUBJECTS ASSERTING AGGRESSIVE ACTIVITY:

Ciara24 [3] Nachomamma8, Thor665, KarmicGuide
KarmicGuide [3] davesaz, WoodyWoodpecker, gummmybear
WoodyWoodpecker [2] Garmr, pistachi0n
Nachomamma8 [1] Bellaphant
Thor665 [0]
Bellaphant [0]
davesaz [0]
eventi [0]
Fro99er [0]
Garmr [0]
gummmybear [0]
pistachi0n [0]
Radja [0]

SUBJECTS DISPLAYING PASSIVE TENDENCY:

Ciara24, eventi, Fro99er, Radja
permanently retired

see here for more info
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:20 pm

Post by zakk »

In post 79, Fro99er wrote:@Mod: I need to extend V/LA one day further to tomorrow. Had some very important RL stuff come up just now.

Noted, but now inapplicable. Play on.
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:22 pm

Post by WoodyWoodpecker »

In post 136, pistachi0n wrote:t would definitely be more scummy if it were used as an excuse later. I think it's only mildly scummy by itself.

So if somebody said you were a good player and you knew you weren't as good as they think you were, you wouldn't correct them? I really find that hard to believe. I think you just exposed yourself though, you want to scum read me for something that you think I will do before I have actually done it. I got it now. If you are town, you have the right idea but you actually have to wait for me to use my poor play as an excuse. Btw that won't ever happen, even in my past games where I know I probably fucked up, I never once admitted I fucked up, even in the dead thread I still stood by my actions.
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:33 pm

Post by WoodyWoodpecker »

In post 137, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 134, WoodyWoodpecker wrote:Does everyone here have trouble reading? You quoted the questions I asked you in post 125.


Those questions. I'm sorry. You're currently the most interesting thing going on and I'm still forming my thoughts about everything else. I responded by asking you if there was anything specifically you wanted me to comment on, meaning the rest of the game.

Usually people would ask.questions to help gather their thoughts. It looks like you completely ignored the whole thor/nacho/ciara stuff which is also very interesting. Looks like you want to divert attention away from them for some reason cause me being honest about my.play is most certainly not the most interesting thing that has happened. Hell, Karmic lying and being caught in a lie is more interesting than me saying I'm not that good of a player, yet you ignore that also...

Weird
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:50 pm

Post by KarmicGuide »

In post 135, gummmybear wrote:Sorry everyone I'm really late to the party, RL has not been kind to me. It may be a little inappropriate coming so late in the game, but first, a few pleasantries! Skip over to the third paragraph/after the meta-links if you're looking for thoughts and content.

Hi Bellaphant! Good to be playing with you again. And hi to Nachomamma8 and Thor665! You don't know me, but I've been lurkreading Mafiascum games for a bit and read many of the completed past games. You guys are like legends to me, and I'm really excited to be able to play and learn from you two in this game! As a quick introduction also, I'm a newbie who's been reading and recently decided to start playing, have one completed newbie under my belt and this is my first non-newbie game. If you'd like to meta me from my previous game (VT) here's a link to the game and one to the dead thread with many of my thought processes:

Game
Dead Thread

Anyway, here's my thoughts on reading through the game. It'd be rather brief as I'm a little pressed for time, will address any concerns or questions as much as I can though! davesaz looks townie to me so far from his posting, and I'm okay with Woody and Thor665 too. Nacho feels alright to me though I'm not too sure so far.

There's a couple of things that have caught my attention, and I have questions for a few people.

@Ciara24, I dislike your entire back-and-forth discussion with Thor665 and the feel of the rest of your posts. It would be mostly a gut read, but one thing stood out to me: the part where you state his vote is a reaction test on you and proceed to try to make little of it (in my eyes) or devalue it.

I can't seem to find any pro-town value in this -
Ciara, could you explain to me why you found it important to point out that Thor665's vote on you was a reaction test?


Secondly,

KarmicGuide wrote:
In post 117, Thor665 wrote:Let's lynch Ciara - her answers feel wonky to me and not like she's trying to assess me, but rather toss some dirt on me. Note that her last post wherein she becomes aware that she is tossing dirt...she doesn't follow it up with other questions to assess me. She just acts like she's been made aware of something and moves on and does nothing else.

The train is leaving the tracks, hop on quick.


I like the idea of day 1 Ciara lynch. IRL, I can respect putting college before mafia, and if that's what's going on, that's what's going on. But in the context of mafia, Ciara has felt lurky, and I agree that the scumhunting from her has been weak.

I'll sheep your vote. Let the pressure begin!

UNVOTE: WoodyWoodpecker I went and read a town game of yours last night, and this is basically how you played that game, too... you seem very agitated to me, but who knows what that means. I still would not be adverse to lynching you today. You've interacted with a lot of people, and you flipping scum would practically be game over.

VOTE: Ciara


This post. I dislike it very much. It feels very opportunistic to me, and pushing lurking as a reason for voting is rather weak. You also point out that you are sheeping, but yet find it important to put another reason for sheeping - lurking.
KarmicGuide, why not vote me (who hasn't posted at all), eventi (who's posted barely anything), Radja or even Nacho (who hasn't posted in a long while) for "lurking"? I also dislike your initial interactions with Woody. Lynching him because him flipping scum would practically be game over? Why, do you think he's formed many associative tells with others and implicated the scumteam? Who do you think is scum then if he flips scum?


I think you're just setting up reasons to switch to a Woody lynch should your chosen wagon not pan out. VOTE: KarmicGuide


XD I didn't vote you for lurking because I literally forgot you existed. I remember someone asked for a Leave of Absence for memorial day, though I suppose that's Frogger, not you.

Thanks for pointing out to me that you haven't been playing, I guess?

Voting people who are totally just not playing isn't fun, anyway. Being totally MIA is different from actively lurking. If you kill someone who was barely playing on D1, and they flip VT, you have nothing to go on during D2. One of the biggest flaws in peoples' mafia games is mistaking laziness for scumminess.

Ciara seems like she's here and reading, but not doing specially great scumhunting. That (and also sheeping Thor, I thought that was implicit) is why I'm voting Ciara.

The Woody wagon (god, even the name is perfect - like those old wood-paneled station wagons? Did Woody pick his name for this pun? If so, much respect) still a good wagon. Reading his last completed town game did give me a lot of information. He was also pretty aggressive in that game, though his posts seemed to be more earnest scumhunting. His posts in this game, some of his posts have felt like a pretense of activity to me. What Thor said about Ciara "attacking, not scumhunting" applies to Woody as well.

I am totally fine with a D1 Woody lynch. I just didn't want to spend all D1 tunneling the same person. I've made my case against Woody. His counter-argument has been that I'm wrong, humorless, and can't read, so I was getting pretty tired of that. Even if Woody flips VT, I stand by him as a good lynch candidate. He's interacted with a lot of people, and offers good D2 info on Nacho, Gramr, pistachi0n, and Bellaphant.

TL;DR - I'm sheeping Thor, but it's because I agree with him, not blindly sheeping. Fine with Ciara or Woody lynch. I'm just in the mood to run somebody up to L2 and see what they have to say.
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:51 pm

Post by KarmicGuide »

Woody, you keep saying you caught me in a lie. What lie is that?
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:58 pm

Post by Garmr »

In post 132, davesaz wrote:Garmr appears to have not seen . I wonder if I commented on a scumslip?

Bella, nice way to dodge the question in your response to . How was Nacho's response strange, and how does it help you read him? And I noticed that you call my non-vote scummier but then emulate my behavior. Did you think it was scummy, or are you just trying to motivate me to take a more confrontational approach?

I gave an honest answer and used an example I don't see that's a scum slip. You through aren't really good at hiding the fact that your scum your like two different people.

VOTE: Dave
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:01 pm

Post by Garmr »

I don't mind woody as much anymore but dave and karmic are pretty high on my scum list.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:02 pm

Post by WoodyWoodpecker »

Again with the playing dumb...

You said I voted and immediately unvoted nacho which wasn't true.

Than you act like I didn't explain why I unvoted when you mentioned that nacho hadn't posted so you didn't know why I unvoted when it was clearly posted my reasons for unvoting.

Once I pointed it out you acted like this was some new revelation and you misread/misunderstood which didn't feel genuine.

If you were trying to figure my alignment out and really didn't see my posts, you would have asked why I unvoted not just assumed and attacked. That looks like a scum motivated attack, not a town one
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:26 pm

Post by pistachi0n »

In post 140, WoodyWoodpecker wrote:
In post 136, pistachi0n wrote:t would definitely be more scummy if it were used as an excuse later. I think it's only mildly scummy by itself.

So if somebody said you were a good player and you knew you weren't as good as they think you were, you wouldn't correct them? I really find that hard to believe.


Honestly, no. I'd be secretly shocked and flattered but I'd let it slide by as scum or town. But I see your point. Did someone call you a good player before you said you were bad, though?
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:27 pm

Post by pistachi0n »

In post 141, WoodyWoodpecker wrote:
In post 137, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 134, WoodyWoodpecker wrote:Does everyone here have trouble reading? You quoted the questions I asked you in post 125.


Those questions. I'm sorry. You're currently the most interesting thing going on and I'm still forming my thoughts about everything else. I responded by asking you if there was anything specifically you wanted me to comment on, meaning the rest of the game.

Usually people would ask.questions to help gather their thoughts. It looks like you completely ignored the whole thor/nacho/ciara stuff which is also very interesting. Looks like you want to divert attention away from them for some reason cause me being honest about my.play is most certainly not the most interesting thing that has happened. Hell, Karmic lying and being caught in a lie is more interesting than me saying I'm not that good of a player, yet you ignore that also...

Weird


I didn't ignore it, I said the vote on Ciara seemed like the closest you could get to RVS in a game that bans RVS. I don't think it was a good vote but I also don't think there were a lot of good reasons to vote people at that point.
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WoodyWoodpecker
WoodyWoodpecker
Mafia Scum
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WoodyWoodpecker
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1628
Joined: May 26, 2015
Location: Mrs. Meany's tree

Post Post #149 (ISO) » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:43 pm

Post by WoodyWoodpecker »

Never got to a computer so, going to try and do this on my phone. This is my response to karmic's other post

I'll put it in spoilers

[sp
ohheckno
iler=]
In post 84, KarmicGuide wrote:I really don't know what the appropriate read on "this game is gonna suck" is. Maybe it's not a tell in any direction, but i would expect scum to go into game with butterflies, not town.

Not sure why you interpreted that as butterflies, it was more disappointment than anything.

In post 84, KarmicGuide wrote:his is where a slight trend of Woody paying a little more attention to himself than to others starts. Sure, you could say he's looking at Nacho while also explaining himself, but...

I don't think so, cause I was directly responding to nacho. He put the attention on me, not the other way around. Everything in that post you quoted was me directly responding to him. So saying otherwise is misleading IMO

Already covered the immediate unvote stuff.

In post 84, KarmicGuide wrote:When I hear "why would that make you think I'm scum" I hear "so I can not slip up again."

That's a stretch. When a person takes something that's not alignment indicative and implies it is, getting him to explain himself is probably a good idea. It's called scum hunting, something you later say I haven't really done yet here is a classic example of it...

In post 84, KarmicGuide wrote:Telling me I don't have a sense of humor was a nice present here, I think. Day 1 is a little early to lob insults at someone who put a third vote on you. This struck me as defensive. Generally regular people don't say stuff like this unless they're a little ruffled.

1. Is it an insult if its true? I make jokes, you try to imply jokes are somehow scummy when its a personality thing, obviously you don't appreciate the jokes. People who don't appreciate jokes typically don't have a sense of humor. If I offended you I'm sorry but I honestly don't think you have a sense of humor.
2. Weird you thought your vote position had anything to do with why I said you had no sense of humor, when you were the one trying to imply my jokes were somehow alignment indicative.
3. Do you know what defensive means? This is like the second time you accused me of it. Here is defensive definition as it relates to this context. "ery anxious to challenge or avoid criticism" no where have I been anxious or trying to avoid criticism. Responding to untrue accusations is not defensive. I see people try and falsely accused people of this all the time, usually by scum but sometimes by town also. Telling people the things they say about me are untrue is defending myself, but it isn't "defensive"
4. I disagree with your opinion about what regular people do.

In post 84, KarmicGuide wrote:rying to gaslight me, saying I don't make sense, when I've been explaining my points for the most part

I don't think I am gaslighting you, the part I said didn't make sense was the stuff I had quoted which you didn't actually explain. You said I felt nervous but didn't explain what about my posts actually gave you that impression, you also said you could tell I hated the attention, but didn't explain that either and since I thrive on attention, that one was obviously false.

In post 84, KarmicGuide wrote:Frequent double-posts make me think people are second-guessing what they've just said.

I think I covered this already, but this is just plain dumb. Regardless of my alignment I multi post, I have seen other townies do it also. This one really makes you look like you are reaching for anything you can find to try and discredit me.

And lastly

In post 84, KarmicGuide wrote:As long as he keeps saying interesting things,


Interesting is very vague. After reading your entire wall nothing about any of my posts are really that interesting. Most of the things you pointed to are things that either weren't true, weren't scummy, or weren't alignment indicative.

It really looks like you hopped on a growing wagon, and tried to find things to use but failed to execute.[/spoiler]
Last edited by zakk on Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hey, keep your eyes up top ok? Don't look down here you pervert.

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