Mini Normal 1707 - Frog Mafia! - GAME OVER - TOWN WIN!

[Metal Sonic]

mala did you actually claim that you JKed bbt last night because i don't think you're been really clear on that. then we quicklynched bbt sadly for the broken perfect win. my OCD is violated.

[Scorpious]

Yeah we aren't lynching me. >.>

Yes I jailed scorpi

What did jailing me accomplish?

[Metal Sonic]

VOTE: scorp

[Malakittens]

i did jail BBT on N2.

[AxleGreaser]

Yeah we aren't lynching me. >.>

Yes I jailed scorpi

What did jailing me accomplish?

Huh?
If the kill had happened it would have cleared you.
If you are scum it stops your kill.

[Scorpious]

I'm sorry. So Mala is telling everyone she prevented me from klling? Is this correct?

[Malakittens]

wana answer my question before you ask your own?

[zakk]

Guys, don't lynch Scorp. It makes much more sense to lynch zakk (or Mala as a second, though I don't even really want to say I'd settle on her lynch today - hers is more PoE).

This is a ridiculously town post.

I don't want to lynch shadowez. I REALLY don't see scum making this post.

"Guys, don't do X" sounded so very natural.

Okay cool.

[zakk]

Guys, don't lynch Scorp. It makes much more sense to lynch zakk (or Mala as a second, though I don't even really want to say I'd settle on her lynch today - hers is more PoE).

Also, the side note that scum probably wouldn't be appealing to emotion in this case, they'd just be happy they weren't jailed.

[zakk]

as for an argument as to why I'm town, i would have had to know exactly what Metal Sonic was, and exactly what he would have claimed on me, before he claimed it, to formulate my response so EXACTLY to know exactly what he was thinking. i would have known that, exactly, as either a town backup rolecop, or a scum rolecop (scum wouldn't have a backup rolecop, just a full one). therefore, i'd know more about people's roles than I do, as a full scum rolecop, than as a town backup rolecop (who hasn't targeted anyone yet, because town hasn't had our rolecop flip yet).

Tit for Tat is setup where when you kill the full Role cop on the other faction your faction gets the power.
This would be a tat for tit related setup.

yeah that's really cool and all, and i'mma let you finish

but neither me nor MS was jailed last night, sooooo *pokes hole in the balloon of you still thinking I'm scum*

[Scorpious]

Just in case I wake up at L1,with an intent and can't do anything because of work like things.

I'm just a plain ol' VT.. Lynch accordingly

[shaddowez]

I'm trying to work through the sequence of events in my head:

D1 - We lynch Maxwell, the encryptor.
N1 - Mala JK's singer, getting lucky with no NK.
D2 - We lynch Shiro, mafia goon. Mala announces she's JK.
N2 - Mala JK's BBT, again no NK.
D3 - We lynch BBT, VT.
N3 - Mala JK's Scorp, no NK.

Knowing that BBT was town, the fact that Mala is still alive doesn't actually make sense. Why wouldn't scum have killed her N2 instead of targeting BBT, who people were scum reading?

[shaddowez]

UNVOTE:

PoE has me down to three candidates for the last scum, none of which are actually zakk.

[zakk]

Axle, went digging in the wiki and found this page (because I don't recall playing a Tit for Tat before):

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tit_for_Tat

And then since none of the listed games are "Normal" games (just Open or Micro), I wasn't sure if Tit for Tat was Normal.

So I went digging again and found this:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

Normal

Games may use any amount of approved roles (so long as there is at least one Vanilla Townie) in conjunction with approved

modifiers

.

Modifiers

which are explicitly

Normal

for any alignment include:
Ascetic, Backup (with or without primary role present), Bulletproof, Enabler (with or without primary role present), Even/Odd Night, Macho, Neighbor, Non-Consecutive Night, Weak, X-Shot

New/

variant

roles may be included in limited number

(no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large)

, and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting,

Enabling

and Communication.

I would assume that the killing of one role enabling another on another faction is a non-normal variant and would therefore necessitate that only one of them appear in a normal setup.

However it also explicitly lists backups as normal, though the word backup by nature means supporting, and it wouldn't necessarily be supporting, to enable one from the other faction, etc.

So really, I don't think I came to a solid conclusion on this nitpicking session, and even though I set out to prove you wrong, I couldn't really, but I learned some

Anyway, I learned enough to prove you wrong in another way:

This isn't Tit for Tat.

In Tit for Tat it's Jailkeeper with scum backup, and scum rolecop with town backup. So as backup rolecop, I'd be the town one. Also, there's been no vig kills. There haven't been any kills period. So there's

that

right out the window.

But in any case, I have far more than enough reason to believe that Metal Sonic was a rolecop. If I was scum, I'd probably look to be killing him as basically confirmed town right now, by nature of my interactions with him,

not to mention

his interactions with me.

It seems beyond obvious that both he and I are town.

But then, sometimes you can't see what's right in front of your face. Anyway, I believe I've presented sufficient evidence for my town-ness such that only someone pre-inclined to believe I was scum for more reason than I can possibly refute, would think I'm scum at this point.

Either that, or they're scum themselves. Like Scorpious probably is.

At this point, if we lynch Scorpious and he's town, then either a) scum is either guessing Mala's targets PERFECTLY, or b) scum is no-killing, or c) Mala is scum.

[zakk]

UNVOTE:

PoE has me down to three candidates for the last scum, none of which are actually zakk.

lmfao my love for your slot increases.

i hated your slot at first because it was pretty hard to read.

but nobody makes posts like you've been making today, as scum.

also, you're getting excited about winning, which means you're posting in a different way. which makes it even more easy to read you as town.

you're in my good books. you should play in my next game I mod.

[zakk]

I'm trying to work through the sequence of events in my head:

D1 - We lynch Maxwell, the encryptor.
N1 - Mala JK's singer, getting lucky with no NK.
D2 - We lynch Shiro, mafia goon. Mala announces she's JK.
N2 - Mala JK's BBT, again no NK.
D3 - We lynch BBT, VT.
N3 - Mala JK's Scorp, no NK.

Knowing that BBT was town, the fact that Mala is still alive doesn't actually make sense. Why wouldn't scum have killed her N2 instead of targeting BBT, who people were scum reading?

I think if it's not Scorpious it's Mala.

And I'm beginning to get a town read on Scorpious for unknown reasons. I need to read more but

Mala's looking like scum to be quite frank.

Which would kiiiiiinda confirm my earlier suspicions, and give me blanket "I told you so" rights.

[zakk]

Scum just having a backup rolecop is way too weak.

In
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tit_for_Tat

In tit for Tat

Town has Vig and a JK. The Jk if they get the save buys back the mislynch the Vig costs town.
Scum has the rolecop.

In my scenario for here scum BRCop. Scum are more powerful in that backup role cop is a plausible claim, whereas in tit for tat its a straight up scum claim.
So here, vs tit for tat, the role cop is weaker. We don't have a vig. The JK defensively saving isnt real useful (unless they hit lots of them)

Town is weaker, so is scum.

If the game is town PR heavy whats the scum PR? That balances (JK, RCop, BRCOP, / Encrypot/ goon / ???)
nerf town. another goon? so that the rolecop are actually bait and switch, where their checks are effectively mainly meaningless.
Scum RB. ?? not sure the play since the second scum lynch matches there still being a scum RB.
???

oh, and here it is. you posted it.

lol, and i went looking, hoping to be all awesome and stuff. HA. fat chance

[shaddowez]

Screw it. Unless Scorp's godfather, he's town.

VOTE: Mala

[zakk]

Screw it. Unless Scorp's godfather, he's town.

VOTE: Mala

wait. what.

talk to me here

i was just about to vote scorp because that is undeniably the proper play for today unless you have more information

[zakk]

i'll be on for another ten minutes or so. brb brushing teeth

[Malakittens]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME

ARE YOU

EVEN

THINKING

ABOUT

FREAKING LYNCHING ME

[Malakittens]

sERIOUSLY.

No.

[Malakittens]

1) We need a massclaim.
2) We need to pull our head out of our asses.
3) We need to calm down.
4) We need to stop and think.
5) We need to look at interactions.
6) I need to do a VCA.

[Malakittens]

7) We need to wait for everyone to check in.

K good glad we are on the same page.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle, went digging

and found a pile of drivel / fluff.

At no point did I usggest this was a tit for tat setup or that tit for ta was normal.

However tit for tat is played and considered balance.

I extrapolated sideways to show that [

JK(Mala) RCop(mario) 8VT

] vs [

Encryptor(max) BRCop(Zak) Goon(shiro)

] looks balanced.