Mini 1715 - Z - Game over!

[WoodyWoodpecker]

Did someone call you a good player before you said you were bad, though?

Uh yes, I quoted the post I responded to when I made the post. You honestly thought I out of the blue called myself a bad player?

Nacho was basically calling me a good player, I responded to him saying I'm.not really cause I cost town 2 games at least before I left the site for a little bit.

[Fro99er]

Back from V/LA. Guess I should catch up.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

Frogger was in one of those games actually. I'm sure he can tell you all about me lol

[pistachi0n]

The fruit game? I remember that being a huge messy flurry where everyone was multi posting.

[KarmicGuide]

Again with the playing dumb...

You said I voted and immediately unvoted nacho which wasn't true.

Than you act like I didn't explain why I unvoted when you mentioned that nacho hadn't posted so you didn't know why I unvoted when it was clearly posted my reasons for unvoting.

Once I pointed it out you acted like this was some new revelation and you misread/misunderstood which didn't feel genuine.

If you were trying to figure my alignment out and really didn't see my posts, you would have asked why I unvoted not just assumed and attacked. That looks like a scum motivated attack, not a town one

You voted Nacho and unvoted Nacho in the space of four posts, without Nacho posting once in between. That's weird. I asked you about it. You said you read his past games in between the two votes. I took that at more or less face value.

You know what? Face value rescinded. I'm back to thinking your vote/unvote on Nacho was wish-washy. I think you're scared of him, because he's a good player, he has a townread on you, and you want to keep things that way. The reason you want to turn my analysis of you into a "lie" is because you're afraid of people thinking too much about that vote/unvote.

[pistachi0n]

Garmr appears to have not seen 105. I wonder if I commented on a scumslip?

Bella, nice way to dodge the question in your response to 106. How was Nacho's response strange, and how does it help you read him? And I noticed that you call my non-vote scummier but then emulate my behavior. Did you think it was scummy, or are you just trying to motivate me to take a more confrontational approach?

I gave an honest answer and used an example I don't see that's a scum slip. You through aren't really good at hiding the fact that your scum your like two different people.

VOTE: Dave

I cannot plausibly see how 72 was a scumslip but I just finished a game where dave was town and this was the kind of post he made.

[Garmr]

Can you link me that game

[zakk]

Never got to a computer so, going to try and do this on my phone. This is my response to karmic's other post

I'll put it in spoilers

Spoiler:

I really don't know what the appropriate read on "this game is gonna suck" is. Maybe it's not a tell in any direction, but i would expect scum to go into game with butterflies, not town.

Not sure why you interpreted that as butterflies, it was more disappointment than anything.

his is where a slight trend of Woody paying a little more attention to himself than to others starts. Sure, you could say he's looking at Nacho while also explaining himself, but...

I don't think so, cause I was directly responding to nacho. He put the attention on me, not the other way around. Everything in that post you quoted was me directly responding to him. So saying otherwise is misleading IMO

Already covered the immediate unvote stuff.

When I hear "why would that make you think I'm scum" I hear "so I can not slip up again."

That's a stretch. When a person takes something that's not alignment indicative and implies it is, getting him to explain himself is probably a good idea. It's called scum hunting, something you later say I haven't really done yet here is a classic example of it...

Telling me I don't have a sense of humor was a nice present here, I think. Day 1 is a little early to lob insults at someone who put a third vote on you. This struck me as defensive. Generally regular people don't say stuff like this unless they're a little ruffled.

1. Is it an insult if its true? I make jokes, you try to imply jokes are somehow scummy when its a personality thing, obviously you don't appreciate the jokes. People who don't appreciate jokes typically don't have a sense of humor. If I offended you I'm sorry but I honestly don't think you have a sense of humor.
2. Weird you thought your vote position had anything to do with why I said you had no sense of humor, when you were the one trying to imply my jokes were somehow alignment indicative.
3. Do you know what defensive means? This is like the second time you accused me of it. Here is defensive definition as it relates to this context. "ery anxious to challenge or avoid criticism" no where have I been anxious or trying to avoid criticism. Responding to untrue accusations is not defensive. I see people try and falsely accused people of this all the time, usually by scum but sometimes by town also. Telling people the things they say about me are untrue is defending myself, but it isn't "defensive"
4. I disagree with your opinion about what regular people do.

rying to gaslight me, saying I don't make sense, when I've been explaining my points for the most part

I don't think I am gaslighting you, the part I said didn't make sense was the stuff I had quoted which you didn't actually explain. You said I felt nervous but didn't explain what about my posts actually gave you that impression, you also said you could tell I hated the attention, but didn't explain that either and since I thrive on attention, that one was obviously false.

Frequent double-posts make me think people are second-guessing what they've just said.

I think I covered this already, but this is just plain dumb. Regardless of my alignment I multi post, I have seen other townies do it also. This one really makes you look like you are reaching for anything you can find to try and discredit me.

And lastly

As long as he keeps saying interesting things,

Interesting is very vague. After reading your entire wall nothing about any of my posts are really that interesting. Most of the things you pointed to are things that either weren't true, weren't scummy, or weren't alignment indicative.

It really looks like you hopped on a growing wagon, and tried to find things to use but failed to execute.

This post contains an infraction of Rule #4.

NO SPOILERS

.

Read the rules again, they're in the OP... in a spoiler.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63235

The offending post has been edited.

[zakk]

EXPERIMENT NOTES 1.7

SUBJECTS ASSERTING AGGRESSIVE ACTIVITY:

Ciara24 [3] Nachomamma8, Thor665, KarmicGuide
KarmicGuide [3] davesaz, WoodyWoodpecker, gummmybear
davesaz [1] Garmr
WoodyWoodpecker [1] pistachi0n
Nachomamma8 [1] Bellaphant
Thor665 [0]
Bellaphant [0]
eventi [0]
Fro99er [0]
Garmr [0]
gummmybear [0]
pistachi0n [0]
Radja [0]

SUBJECTS DISPLAYING PASSIVE TENDENCY:

Ciara24, eventi, Fro99er, Radja

[WoodyWoodpecker]

ou voted Nacho and unvoted Nacho in the space of four posts, without Nacho posting once in between. That's weird. I asked you about it. You said you read his past games in between the two votes. I took that at more or less face value.

You know what? Face value rescinded. I'm back to thinking your vote/unvote on Nacho was wish-washy. I think you're scared of him, because he's a good player, he has a townread on you, and you want to keep things that way. The reason you want to turn my analysis of you into a "lie" is because you're afraid of people thinking too much about that vote/unvote.

Shocker, but the fact that I provided specific details of what I found is actually evidence I did go through his games so choosing not to believe me just proves you aren't town.

I'm good with my vote, all aboard the scum Lynch people

[eventi]

Wow, that was exhausting... If woody is town, he will be dead weight. All those words and absolutely nothing productive.

VOTE: woody

[Thor665]

What do you think of nacho?????

I do not have a valid opinion on him yet - do you?

Yes

Okay, we can play 20 questions, let me try to phrase this correctly for you;

Please share your opinion of Nacho's alignment along with a few explanatory thoughts.

It's a valid opinion but not really alignment indicative one.

I really don't like how defensive this post is over woody. I don't know if it means his scum or his just someone who's going to clash heads with me over this game.

So...you *don't* have a valid opinion on him then?
Because saying you don't like a post and then not calling the post scummy or towny is calling it null...which is not an opinion, and makes one wonder the point.


Garmr is a scum read now.

You should sheep me.

I don't trust you, why would I sheep you?

You should actually sheep me since I'm actually voting near confirmed scum. No way town does what karmic did

You should sheep me for yucks, if nothing else.

If your wagon on Karmic gets bigger than my wagon on Ciara then I'll move.
Since that is not currently the case I see little value in wagoning with you, and see a lot of value in you wagoning with me.

So if somebody said you were a good player and you knew you weren't as good as they think you were, you wouldn't correct them? I really find that hard to believe.

Wow, that was exhausting... If woody is town, he will be dead weight. All those words and absolutely nothing productive.

He's done more productive things than you...
Could you describe how his posting is unproductive? I will agree it is spammy - but I really disagree that it qualifies as actual spam, and find a lot of content in his posts.
Did you even read them?

[Thor665]

Oh, also, town lean on Gummy.
Mostly for the buddying

[WoodyWoodpecker]

absolutely nothing productive.

umm excuse me I caught scum. what have you done?

[WoodyWoodpecker]

You should sheep me for yucks, if nothing else.

again, I don't trust you and I don't really see enough from ciara to make me want to switch.

[Thor665]

Two questions;

1. Why do you not trust me?

2. What part of my case on Ciara do you find lacking?

[Garmr]

What do you think of nacho?????

I do not have a valid opinion on him yet - do you?

Yes

Okay, we can play 20 questions, let me try to phrase this correctly for you;

Please share your opinion of Nacho's alignment along with a few explanatory thoughts.

It's a valid opinion but not really alignment indicative one.

I really don't like how defensive this post is over woody. I don't know if it means his scum or his just someone who's going to clash heads with me over this game.

So...you *don't* have a valid opinion on him then?
Because saying you don't like a post and then not calling the post scummy or towny is calling it null...which is not an opinion, and makes one wonder the point.


Garmr is a scum read now.

You should sheep me.

I don't trust you, why would I sheep you?

You should actually sheep me since I'm actually voting near confirmed scum. No way town does what karmic did

You should sheep me for yucks, if nothing else.

If your wagon on Karmic gets bigger than my wagon on Ciara then I'll move.
Since that is not currently the case I see little value in wagoning with you, and see a lot of value in you wagoning with me.

So if somebody said you were a good player and you knew you weren't as good as they think you were, you wouldn't correct them? I really find that hard to believe.

Wow, that was exhausting... If woody is town, he will be dead weight. All those words and absolutely nothing productive.

He's done more productive things than you...
Could you describe how his posting is unproductive? I will agree it is spammy - but I really disagree that it qualifies as actual spam, and find a lot of content in his posts.
Did you even read them?

I initially scum read him for it but then I thought about it more after you asked why and reflected on it was unfourtantly neutral. I still don't like how he dared challenged on woody after last game that game still grinds my gears till this day when it was so fucking obvious who the fucking sk was and he was the first and only person ever to lynch me in a mylo and it was a mislynch. But anyway that's my answer like it or lump it.

[Thor665]

I lump it.

[Garmr]

I lump it.

Push me for it please I work best under pressure.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

Two questions;

1. Why do you not trust me?

2. What part of my case on Ciara do you find lacking?

1. I don't trust anyone I don't have a town read on, the fact you called me town based on basically nothing still doesn't sit well with me either
2. I think the issue is I am not seeing a case at all. You say her responses were "wonky" which really doesn't say much and that you feel she is attacking/throwing dirt on you but idk if I really see that. I'll have to re-read her posts again.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

eventi, I will ask you the same thing I asked pistachion

Why haven't you posted anything else? Why ignore everything else going on?

[Thor665]

I lump it.

Push me for it please I work best under pressure.

I am pushing Ciara - what is your take of my case on her?

1. I don't trust anyone I don't have a town read on, the fact you called me town based on basically nothing still doesn't sit well with me either

Learn how to play town.

2. I think the issue is I am not seeing a case at all. You say her responses were "wonky" which really doesn't say much and that you feel she is attacking/throwing dirt on you but idk if I really see that. I'll have to re-read her posts again.

To go with the 'wonky' and ignore the more specific issues I raised in the same post is frustrating to me.
How do you think her reaction to, let's say, specifically the 'obstructionist' conversation made sense?
She attacked me for something I said I did, when it was clear I never did it. Then ignored when I said I didn't do it and kept pushing. Then I pointed it out a third time and pressed for her reasoning and got a 'ooops!' as a response with no further scumhunting.

If her goal of pushing a BS point was to scumhunt me - okay, i get the push on emptiness, that makes sense to me.
But when the emptiness is pointed out and you drop all communication...then it doesn't look like a push to get a read on me anymore, it looks like a push that she thought was valid.
But why ever think it was valid as *literally* the only evidence that it had happened was me saying it had - which suggests she was not reading for comprehension, but reading for tells to push.

What are your thoughts on the case now?

[davesaz]

This post contains an infraction of Rule #4.

NO SPOILERS

.

Read the rules again, they're in the OP... in a spoiler.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63235

The offending post has been edited.

PSA

Spoilers are an essential part of internet etiquette, used for reducing the amount of material that needs to be downloaded on low-bandwidth connections and displayed on small screen sizes.

Authority: I've been on "the net" since before it was the InterNet
End PSA

[davesaz]

Garmr appears to have not seen 105. I wonder if I commented on a scumslip?

Bella, nice way to dodge the question in your response to 106. How was Nacho's response strange, and how does it help you read him? And I noticed that you call my non-vote scummier but then emulate my behavior. Did you think it was scummy, or are you just trying to motivate me to take a more confrontational approach?

I gave an honest answer and used an example I don't see that's a scum slip. You through aren't really good at hiding the fact that your scum your like two different people.

VOTE: Dave

Garmr appears to have not seen 105. I wonder if I commented on a scumslip?

Bella, nice way to dodge the question in your response to 106. How was Nacho's response strange, and how does it help you read him? And I noticed that you call my non-vote scummier but then emulate my behavior. Did you think it was scummy, or are you just trying to motivate me to take a more confrontational approach?

I gave an honest answer and used an example I don't see that's a scum slip. You through aren't really good at hiding the fact that your scum your like two different people.

VOTE: Dave

I cannot plausibly see how 72 was a scumslip but I just finished a game where dave was town and this was the kind of post he made.

Can you link me that game

Umm, you've personally seen my town game several times. I'm going to give you a very small portion of "benefit of the doubt", that perhaps you weren't paying attention or

possibly

that I didn't use the same technique in one of those games.

[davesaz]

Garmr, how did you interpret 71, which your 72 was replying to?