Mini 1715 - Z - Game over!

[Garmr]

I lump it.

Push me for it please I work best under pressure.

I am pushing Ciara - what is your take of my case on her?

1. I don't trust anyone I don't have a town read on, the fact you called me town based on basically nothing still doesn't sit well with me either

Learn how to play town.

2. I think the issue is I am not seeing a case at all. You say her responses were "wonky" which really doesn't say much and that you feel she is attacking/throwing dirt on you but idk if I really see that. I'll have to re-read her posts again.

To go with the 'wonky' and ignore the more specific issues I raised in the same post is frustrating to me.
How do you think her reaction to, let's say, specifically the 'obstructionist' conversation made sense?
She attacked me for something I said I did, when it was clear I never did it. Then ignored when I said I didn't do it and kept pushing. Then I pointed it out a third time and pressed for her reasoning and got a 'ooops!' as a response with no further scumhunting.

If her goal of pushing a BS point was to scumhunt me - okay, i get the push on emptiness, that makes sense to me.
But when the emptiness is pointed out and you drop all communication...then it doesn't look like a push to get a read on me anymore, it looks like a push that she thought was valid.
But why ever think it was valid as *literally* the only evidence that it had happened was me saying it had - which suggests she was not reading for comprehension, but reading for tells to push.

What are your thoughts on the case now?

Tbh you are writing way to much I just generally skim it but after reading seira iso by itself and your case against I can't really say it's a strong case it's a long case because you tend to stretch things out more than it's needed but when you condense it down into digestible form it's really just meh.

Your first reason I could gather because ciara asked you what you thought was scummy. That was a bad reason but early game so yeh. Your next reason is because seira accused you of sheeping nacho. That itself does have a little merit but people do presume things. So I would keep my eye on her but it's not really a big deal.

To be honest I don't think you really have a credible case.

[Garmr]

Garmr, how did you interpret 71, which your 72 was replying to?

Sarcastic maybe, a bit of a loaded question through if he wanted me to take it seriously. So I answered In a way I thought karmic wouldn't expect.

[eventi]

eventi, I will ask you the same thing I asked pistachion

Why haven't you posted anything else? Why ignore everything else going on?

You are responsible for about 1/3 of the posts to this point. Even if I wanted to look elsewhere it's like I have something jumping up and saying "LOOK AT ME" every time I look away.

[KarmicGuide]

I kinda like Dave for town for having the gumption to psa at the mod. XD

[Ciara24]

Let's lynch Ciara - her answers feel wonky to me and not like she's trying to assess me, but rather toss some dirt on me. Note that her last post wherein she becomes aware that she is tossing dirt...she doesn't follow it up with other questions to assess me. She just acts like she's been made aware of something and moves on and does nothing else.

Wonky. Uh, ok. I was made aware of something, but I didn't have any follow up questions, and I didn;t feel like my interactions with you were helping me scumhunt. Therefore, I moved on.

My lack of early voting should hardly surprise you. I don't see any need to rush a vote. I'm not heavily scumreading anyone either, although Woody's spam posting reads a little scummy to me. I'm liking Karmic for town.

Why not vote to pressure somebody?

Also please explain how karmic is a town read when I just proved karmic lied about me than tried to play dumb

Getting town vibes from karmic. Gut feels. I also tend not to bother with voting for pressure unless I'm really sure someone is scum, or to try ad encourage activity. When I've got a scum read that I'm sure about, I'll place my vote.

Let's lynch Ciara - her answers feel wonky to me and not like she's trying to assess me, but rather toss some dirt on me. Note that her last post wherein she becomes aware that she is tossing dirt...she doesn't follow it up with other questions to assess me. She just acts like she's been made aware of something and moves on and does nothing else.

The train is leaving the tracks, hop on quick.

I like the idea of day 1 Ciara lynch. IRL, I can respect putting college before mafia, and if that's what's going on, that's what's going on. But in the context of mafia, Ciara has felt lurky, and I agree that the scumhunting from her has been weak.

I'll sheep your vote. Let the pressure begin!

Pressure is for tires, come up with a legit case on me if you're going to vote me. Explain how I've been lurking? I've been online every day and the game only started a few days ago. Already explained that I'm busy - I can't be as active as I'd like to be but that's not alignment indicative

[Ciara24]

@Ciara24, I dislike your entire back-and-forth discussion with Thor665 and the feel of the rest of your posts. It would be mostly a gut read, but one thing stood out to me: the part where you state his vote is a reaction test on you and proceed to try to make little of it (in my eyes) or devalue it.

I can't seem to find any pro-town value in this -

Ciara, could you explain to me why you found it important to point out that Thor665's vote on you was a reaction test?

In post 52 , Thor pointed out a reaction test he did and a scumhunting thing he did. He asked why I found them identical. I asnwered him by explaining I considered them both to be reaction tests. I don't really see why you are confused, unless you consider me answering his question to be anti-town.

Oh, also, town lean on Gummy.
Mostly for the buddying

Good legit reason, solid work, go team.

[WoodyWoodpecker]

eventi, I will ask you the same thing I asked pistachion

Why haven't you posted anything else? Why ignore everything else going on?

You are responsible for about 1/3 of the posts to this point. Even if I wanted to look elsewhere it's like I have something jumping up and saying "LOOK AT ME" every time I look away.

and? it doesn't seem to be stopping anyone else, and at least i am generating content and scum hunting. you basically ignored all of the valid points I made and voted me for posting too much. That's not scum hunting, that's policy lynching. you said if I am town I am dead weight, but that's not true at all.

[KarmicGuide]

Ciara, that's honestly entirely fair. Looking back on the thread, you have been posting plenty. I rescind any accusations of lurking. I still am gonna sheep vote you based on thor's "attacking, not scumhunting" post.

[davesaz]

Is anyone familiar with Radja's meta, in particular whether a slow start is normal?

[davesaz]

eventi, I will ask you the same thing I asked pistachion

Why haven't you posted anything else? Why ignore everything else going on?

You are responsible for about 1/3 of the posts to this point. Even if I wanted to look elsewhere it's like I have something jumping up and saying "LOOK AT ME" every time I look away.

I don't really buy the argument of not being able to see anything in the thread because one poster dominates. This sounds like scum planting seeds on a PL, as well as an excuse for bad reads later.

[Bellaphant]

I've played a few games with Radja where he's been town (I also think he's had a public alt) and the slow start isn't normal. I've not played a scum game with him.

Also, I really didn't like it because it seemed like fake pressure - it was clearly a response to Radja not having engaged with the thread, but they didn't follow through with it. Why is it odd that I disliked that?

You seem to be finding a lot of things vaguely suspicious yourself, but aren't contributing a huge amount of content aside from that- do you wanna ask me anything, because there's a lot of noise in the thread.

[pistachi0n]

Can you link me that game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62630

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Pistachion

I've been following posts vaguely, but still working. I think that pist is probably the best bet for scum right now (along with Garmr maybe), but will provide more eloquent, confident, and accurate answers when I have just a tiny bit more time.

[zakk]

This post contains an infraction of Rule #4.

NO SPOILERS

.

Read the rules again, they're in the OP... in a spoiler.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63235

The offending post has been edited.

PSA

Spoilers are an essential part of internet etiquette, used for reducing the amount of material that needs to be downloaded on low-bandwidth connections and displayed on small screen sizes.

Authority: I've been on "the net" since before it was the InterNet
End PSA

PSA

If you're havin' problems with large load times in a text-only game which in turn affect your mobile experience in the year 2015 I feel bad for you son

I got 99 problems but waiting for my own avatar to load ain't one

End PSA

posted from my Nokia 5190

[zakk]

EXPERIMENT NOTES 1.8

Fro99er has requested replacement

SUBJECTS ASSERTING AGGRESSIVE ACTIVITY:

KarmicGuide [3] davesaz, WoodyWoodpecker, gummmybear
Ciara24 [2] Thor665, KarmicGuide
WoodyWoodpecker [2] pistachi0n, eventi
davesaz [1] Garmr
pistachi0n [1] Nachomamma8
Nachomamma8 [1] Bellaphant
Thor665 [0]
Bellaphant [0]
eventi [0]
Fro99er [0]
Garmr [0]
gummmybear [0]
Radja [0]

SUBJECTS DISPLAYING PASSIVE TENDENCY:

Ciara24, Fro99er, Radja

[KarmicGuide]

Garmr, how did you interpret 71, which your 72 was replying to?

Sarcastic maybe, a bit of a loaded question through if he wanted me to take it seriously. So I answered In a way I thought karmic wouldn't expect.

I liked your answer, for that one. It told me you'd played with Thor before, which is interesting, and information I probably wouldn't have gone sleuthing for necessarily. (I'm not gonna read everyone's past games, unless things get really, really slow, or someone is at L2 and claiming or something.)

IDK if it says anything about you being town or scum, but it was information, and information is always good.

Vote: Pistachion

I've been following posts vaguely, but still working. I think that pist is probably the best bet for scum right now (along with Garmr maybe), but will provide more eloquent, confident, and accurate answers when I have just a tiny bit more time.

I shall make popcorn.

This post contains an infraction of Rule #4.

NO SPOILERS

.

Read the rules again, they're in the OP... in a spoiler.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63235

The offending post has been edited.

PSA

Spoilers are an essential part of internet etiquette, used for reducing the amount of material that needs to be downloaded on low-bandwidth connections and displayed on small screen sizes.

Authority: I've been on "the net" since before it was the InterNet
End PSA

PSA

If you're havin' problems with large load times in a text-only game which in turn affect your mobile experience in the year 2015 I feel bad for you son

I got 99 problems but waiting for my own avatar to load ain't one

End PSA

posted from my Nokia 5190

Getting a strong mod-read from zakk. His posts have been riddled with sass, which is a classic mod-tell.

[Thor665]

To be honest I don't think you really have a credible case.

What case do you currently find more credible and why?
If the answer is "none" why can't I get a sheep from you?

I kinda like Dave for town for having the gumption to psa at the mod. XD

Wonky. Uh, ok. I was made aware of something, but I didn't have any follow up questions, and I didn;t feel like my interactions with you were helping me scumhunt. Therefore, I moved on.

If you had moved to any location other than silence I would buy into this answer a lot more than I currently do.

Oh, also, town lean on Gummy.
Mostly for the buddying

Good legit reason, solid work, go team.

Are you just being sarcastic for no reason, or are you actually going out of your way to try to denigrate a town read with no presented reasoning?

[pistachi0n]

Thor, is Ciara's play more similar to how she is when she's scum, or could it be explained by her having more experience?

[Thor665]

I'm not sure that I follow how failure to follow up on scumhunting translates as something a more experienced player would do more often than a less experienced one.

[pistachi0n]

I've heard the argument that explicitly stating why someone's scummy is bad because will tell them how to change if they are scum. I don't really agree with that, because it also is not convincing unless the scumminess is really egregious and most of the time the damage has already been done.

Is that what she's getting at? In that case, it's a playstyle thing.

[Garmr]

Can you link me that game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62630

I'm sorry to say but that's different to his behavior here it's pretty easy to notice if you know what you are looking for.

Davesaz tends to have a harder time as scum to produce scum reads thus his post tend to end up more like this.

Garmr appears to have not seen 105. I wonder if I commented on a scumslip?

Bella, nice way to dodge the question in your response to 106. How was Nacho's response strange, and how does it help you read him? And I noticed that you call my non-vote scummier but then emulate my behavior. Did you think it was scummy, or are you just trying to motivate me to take a more confrontational approach?

The bit that rings scum most to me is how he slips into his scum territory here. As scum he is more likely to make accusations while as town it's more like a slow grind. Also looking at the way dave is acting around nacho it reminds me of certain situation with him and a dragon which I can't elaborate on.

Also

eventi, I will ask you the same thing I asked pistachion

Why haven't you posted anything else? Why ignore everything else going on?

You are responsible for about 1/3 of the posts to this point. Even if I wanted to look elsewhere it's like I have something jumping up and saying "LOOK AT ME" every time I look away.

I don't really buy the argument of not being able to see anything in the thread because one poster dominates. This sounds like scum planting seeds on a PL, as well as an excuse for bad reads later.

This is what I also expect from a scum dave more of this behavior.


@thor I feel my case is more credible and sheep worthy.

[Thor665]

I've heard the argument that explicitly stating why someone's scummy is bad because will tell them how to change if they are scum. I don't really agree with that, because it also is not convincing unless the scumminess is really egregious and most of the time the damage has already been done.

Is that what she's getting at? In that case, it's a playstyle thing.

She has certainly not even remotely claimed that was what she was doing when responding to my case.
Are you reading her mind or just making up things and ignoring what she's saying?

@thor I feel my case is more credible and sheep worthy.

It appears to be a meta read.
I have no issue with that, but I don't understand why it's that much better.

[Radja]

Cheers, I'll give that a read later!

So, did you read it?

Garmr: You discredit both Thor and Nacho in one post, without actually calling them scum in #124, can you please give an explanation for both these comments?

I don't like this post to say some one is lurky after only a couple of days RL is unjustified and reachy.

Another scumread on Karmic now? Garmr, who is scum?

I don't mind woody as much anymore but dave and karmic are pretty high on my scum list.

If these guys are scum, how are you reading Nacho, Karmic and Thor now?

Wow, that was exhausting... If woody is town, he will be dead weight. All those words and absolutely nothing productive.

VOTE: woody

Really? I'd say Woody is generating quite a lot of discussion. Do you think that's not productive?

Is anyone familiar with Radja's meta, in particular whether a slow start is normal?

I'm mostly a slow starter yes. In this particular case, I was spectating the end of the Survivor game last night which kept me from posting in some of my mafia games. I do have plenty of reads in this game though. Which I'm sure you'll find.

I've played a few games with Radja where he's been town (I also think he's had a public alt) and the slow start isn't normal. I've not played a scum game with him.

Really? You don't think I'm a slow starter? Cool! The link I provided about Woody is my scumgame. In case you're interested.

I think I might sheep Thor for now.

VOTE: Ciara

[Garmr]

Cheers, I'll give that a read later!

So, did you read it?

Garmr: You discredit both Thor and Nacho in one post, without actually calling them scum in #124, can you please give an explanation for both these comments?

I don't like this post to say some one is lurky after only a couple of days RL is unjustified and reachy.

Another scumread on Karmic now? Garmr, who is scum?

I don't mind woody as much anymore but dave and karmic are pretty high on my scum list.

If these guys are scum, how are you reading Nacho, Karmic and Thor now?

Wow, that was exhausting... If woody is town, he will be dead weight. All those words and absolutely nothing productive.

VOTE: woody

Really? I'd say Woody is generating quite a lot of discussion. Do you think that's not productive?

Is anyone familiar with Radja's meta, in particular whether a slow start is normal?

I'm mostly a slow starter yes. In this particular case, I was spectating the end of the Survivor game last night which kept me from posting in some of my mafia games. I do have plenty of reads in this game though. Which I'm sure you'll find.

I've played a few games with Radja where he's been town (I also think he's had a public alt) and the slow start isn't normal. I've not played a scum game with him.

Really? You don't think I'm a slow starter? Cool! The link I provided about Woody is my scumgame. In case you're interested.

I think I might sheep Thor for now.

VOTE: Ciara

I didn't discredit thor in post 124 I anwsered his question about what I didn't like about nachos post in 124. I orignally thought nacho post came off as scummy but after thinking about it more and putting preducies aside it's more neutral but I dislike how he challenged me on the read and failed to deliver.

another scumread??? You do realize there's multiple scum in this game right it's not just one guy/girl Also I'm not scum reading thor or nacho at the moment I have layed out my scum reads davesaz and karmic (woodys not on there anymore).

Also why can't davesaz and karmic not be scum together? Through I haven't seen any behavior that links them yet and I learned it's not the best to throw association tells out before a lynch Tell me why you are implying these can't be scum together what information would lead you to that conclusion?

[davesaz]

Garmr, you have confused playstyle with meta. I don't make aggressive accusations as either town or scum, especially D1. I do tend to ask oblique questions as both alignments. Occasionally it actually finds scum, but the primary reason is to gather information.

Have a look at this game. The position you are taking here is similar to Whatisswag in that game. The main difference so far is that you have not yet made the error of calling me a liar. If you'd like to look further there is a pretty extensive list of games on my wiki page.