Mini 1715 - Z - Game over!

[Thor665]

I think she called me town, actually, but I could be remembering wrong.
I don't recall any reason for it either way.

[Thor665]

Hell I'm willing to put my head on the chopping block and say ciara is town because the wagon started on nothing I can see ciaras reasoning when debating Thor.

If you're town this is really weird to me.

She has 11 posts or so, and about half of those are semantic debates with me and the other half are prod dodges.
I can get not scum reading her - but head on the block? What the hell are you talking about?

[Thor665]

I think her wagon only has like 3 votes on it also. So, even if it sprang up from nothing it's not like it's crazy scum filled even if she is town.

[Nachomamma8]

because that's reaching as fuck now I know your scum.

My argument isn't that he isn't reaching. My argument is that his reaching (wrt to the role hunting accusation) isn't scummy.

saying yes is no way near what he said..

I'm afraid I don't really know what you're talking about here.

The change is bad because it was not his original reason and it looked like panicked.

You're correct, it wasn't his original reason. It also wasn't very far off from his original reason and his new reasoning made sense; that's why I was okay with it. I don't think that every accusation a player makes in this game has to be completely accurate, and acknowledging his mistake and explaining why he felt that way in the first place is probably the best way Karmic could have handled making a mistake in that situation.

[Nachomamma8]

Also ciara has a town read on karmic and I believe a scum read on Thor

You're partially correct; she has a town read on Karmic and a town read on Thor for no stated reasons at all. I maintain that this isn't anything close to an acceptable level of scumhunting.

I can see ciaras reasoning when debating Thor.

What are you referring to here?

[Garmr]

Also ciara has a town read on karmic and I believe a scum read on Thor

You're partially correct; she has a town read on Karmic and a town read on Thor for no stated reasons at all. I maintain that this isn't anything close to an acceptable level of scumhunting.

I can see ciaras reasoning when debating Thor.

What are you referring to here?

just the whole Thor V Ciara event

[Thor665]

Her "position" though extended to asking me to defend myself from a fake accusation I had made upon myself as a joke and then not having any scumhunting follow up because my reactions weren't helping her scumhunt - while getting a town/scumread on me at some point in there for reasons that apparently weren't about those interactions.

I don't think she even made a sttement that one could agree/disagree with per se' because mostly she was dodging my attack by apologizing to me and not responding - am I daft in my recollections?

[Thor665]

Maybe I need to re-read her, i feel like you're talking crazy.

[Thor665]

And still answer my head on the block question as I do.

[Thor665]

For the record; Ciara's expressed reads;

Woody - scum
Thor - town
Karmic - town
Nacho, Garmr & everyone else - uncertain

It's a bit wonky because she misattributed some quotes.

Also, on re-read - I'll really second my question about which of her points you agree with Garmr. Basically I second all of my questions on this page to you

[Garmr]

I don't see her as dodging your attacks I see her as misreading what you said and going along with that then reliazing and apologizing for the mistake I have done this as town before

[Garmr]

Add to the fact she has been busy inrl I gather

[Garmr]

Also there's a difference between seeing ones reasoning Thor and agreeing

[Garmr]

Like her believing karmic as town I disagree with

[Thor665]

I don't see her as dodging your attacks I see her as misreading what you said and going along with that then reliazing and apologizing for the mistake I have done this as town before

She misread a couple things - and then offered reasoning off of that stuff, and nothing else really.
It just really struck me as someone both who wasn't really scumhunting (skimming leads to more "misreadings" and I do think scum skim) and the apology also reads to me as "oh crud, I gakked up, abort attack!" which, I think, is strongly supported by her then doing spit all afterwards. Like, she did an attack on me based off two "misreads" and nothing else...smoke = fire methinks.

I'll agree that I am taking the negative view of her actions and you're taking the prosaic view, and I can even understand you taking said prosaic view, even if just to be contrary. Where you lose me though is that you take such a prosaic view of an iso that says basically nothing, based off "misreads" or no presented evidence, say you like the reasoning and then town read it so strongly as to go "head on the block!" which...dear lord man, why? Seriously - why? That is an empty and iffy iso that you could maybe read as non-invested town, but to reaad it as town so strongly as to leap to the defense? That is screwy - it is so screwy to me that I almost want to call her town and lynch you on presumption of WKing scum, so please, with a cherry on top, expand on this read you're offering - because it makes no sense to me.

[Garmr]

Do it Thor

[zakk]

SilverWolf replaces WoodyWoodpecker

[Gimlear]

Could you quote the scum hunting from Ciara that you like?

Don't put words in my mouth. I did not say I liked Ciara's scumhunting, just that she has provided opinions and a valid reason for not posting as much, which were the 2 main accusations thrown againot her. I was merely explaining why I thought the Ciara wagon was weaker than the Karmic wagon.

Having flaws in arguments isn't a scumtell.
Which one of his arguments do you think is flawed enough to be considered scummy aka was so bad you couldn't see where he was coming from if town?

First, I actually said that the reasons for the Karmic wagon are not great either, but they are better than the reasons for the Ciara wagon. To answer your question, though, it's not a single flawed argument that makes it scummy; it's that most of his arguments are flawed in one way or another. Again, the flawed arguments could be coming from town, but I think it becomes less and less likely the more flawed arguments he throws out.

[SilverWolf]

Hi guys!!

Just got the PM from zakk earlier today asking to replace. Have not read the game yet so give me some time to do that.

I'll try to do some tonight and tomorrow after work. I can't post here during the day while I'm working but I'll do what I can in the next 24 hours or so.

[zakk]

EXPERIMENT NOTES 1.14

SUBJECTS ASSERTING AGGRESSIVE ACTIVITY:

Ciara24 [5] Thor665, KarmicGuide, Radja, pistachi0n, Nachomamma8
KarmicGuide [4] SilverWolf, gummmybear, Garmr, Gimlear
pistachi0n [1] davesaz
Bellaphant [0]
davesaz [0]
eventi [0]
Garmr [0]
Gimlear [0]
gummmybear [0]
Nachomamma8 [0]
Radja [0]
SilverWolf [0]
Thor665 [0]

SUBJECTS DISPLAYING PASSIVE TENDENCY:

Bellaphant, Ciara24, eventi

[SilverWolf]

I thought WW unvoted but I guess there's some rule about vote tags so I'll

UNVOTE:

While I'm catching up.

[KarmicGuide]

my main argument for Karmic is that some of her arguments and pushes seemed forced and reachy, as if she was looking for things to push people for.

aka RVS?

I'll gladly admit that I reached a little on Ciara. Thor asked for a Ciara vote, I thought about it for a sec, re-read a couple of Ciara's posts, decided there wasn't much content in them, and voted. Day 1, you reach.

I still like the vote, though. I'll probably get crucified for saying this, but Ciara has withdrawn a ton and posted even less when I put pressure on her. I won't use the "L" word again, but she's become even more passive since this wagon on her started.

Bellaphant, why do your vote and unvote posts never seem to have a comment on the person you are voting / unvoting? It's very disconcerting.

I am also curious about this. Bella seems afraid to be too verbose.

[KarmicGuide]

And are we not going to get L2 warnings in this game? Cause it looks like Ciara is at L2.

Also welcome SilverWolf, thanks for replacing in.

And good luck on your job stuff, Woody. Nothing personal about my wagon on you; I just gotta go after what I see.

[eventi]

This pretty much summarizes the reasons for the Karmic wagon:

Most of the things [Karmic] pointed to are things that either weren't true, weren't scummy, or weren't alignment indicative.

Ok I just reread from post 100 and I know Woody said Karmic lied (over and over) but I still don't see what the lie was. I believe Karmic asked, but I didnt see the answer. Are you basing your read on Karmic on your own read or Woody's?

Karmic- what are.you expecting to happen at L-2? Some say you should claim at L-1 but I'm not familiar with any protocol for L-2

I've finished my reread, and my reads haven't changed.

VOTE: ciara

ciara is now at L-1

[Garmr]

I don't see her as dodging your attacks I see her as misreading what you said and going along with that then reliazing and apologizing for the mistake I have done this as town before

She misread a couple things - and then offered reasoning off of that stuff, and nothing else really.
It just really struck me as someone both who wasn't really scumhunting (skimming leads to more "misreadings" and I do think scum skim) and the apology also reads to me as "oh crud, I gakked up, abort attack!" which, I think, is strongly supported by her then doing spit all afterwards. Like, she did an attack on me based off two "misreads" and nothing else...smoke = fire methinks.

I'll agree that I am taking the negative view of her actions and you're taking the prosaic view, and I can even understand you taking said prosaic view, even if just to be contrary. Where you lose me though is that you take such a prosaic view of an iso that says basically nothing, based off "misreads" or no presented evidence, say you like the reasoning and then town read it so strongly as to go "head on the block!" which...dear lord man, why? Seriously - why? That is an empty and iffy iso that you could maybe read as non-invested town, but to reaad it as town so strongly as to leap to the defense? That is screwy - it is so screwy to me that I almost want to call her town and lynch you on presumption of WKing scum, so please, with a cherry on top, expand on this read you're offering - because it makes no sense to me.

Also thor I'm not a noob with my experience as scum i think i only ever lost like 1 game out of 5 and that was due to the sk killing me for being to town. In all my games as scum I have never taken risks like this. It's a fucking wagon with absolutely no grounds to vote anyone and I feel like strangling the town on it because all of them can't be scum. My opinions of people who are on the wagon that are town have also dropped so after this game is done.

Nacho also feels the most shadiest I just can't put my finger why I guess I will find out sooner or latter.