Open 609: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)


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Post Post #800 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:39 am

Post by MaxwellPuckett »

In post 793, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 71, TellTaleHeart wrote:My vote stems from . Complaining about the gamestate when there wasn't anything particularly annoying to complain about feels like an awkward space filler.

In post 50, Bellaphant wrote:UNVOTE:

TTH heart naked voted rather than asking questions. Hmm.

"Hmm." indeed. I'm a little interested in why you would think that's scummy given how Bees went (reference).

In post 82, TellTaleHeart wrote:
In post 80, Lizard_Buttock wrote:@tth: Define 'Super weird'.

She didn't directly acknowledge what I brought up about Bees! but did indirectly (and vaguely) concede that I tend to "votes [her] within a few rl days of the thread opening." It's a point that doesn't really have any relevance and certainly doesn't reveal anything about why she's scum reading me for my vote. The preceding sentence about Alchemist (also with little relevance to the current discussion) just makes it come off as trying to force a casual tone.

In post 86, TellTaleHeart wrote:
In post 63, Alchemist21 wrote:VOTE: JoramvanVught

Unless I get some concrete proof he makes these kinds of commets as Town, I think this is the most likely to turn up scum atm.

Did a little stalking on this and he doesn't have any completed games and I'm working from the assumption that he's a newbie. What, specifically, about Joram is bothersome to you?


These posts from TTH have direction, confidence, and helped get the game moving. That's about what you'd expect from an experienced player.

She was on the early Bella wagon, but the specific reasoning was different than what others were saying about Bella at the time, which indicates to me she had legitimate reasons to scumread Bella rather than just joining a bandwagon.

@Max, the 2 slots you think are missing are there, but I put the names of other players who had the slots by mistake.

I wanted to address this in the earlier post but for some reason I didn't quote it, and then forgot.
Anyways, Alch's continued TTH defense is... still weird. It wouldn't be so bad if he'd at least throw a line out like, 'I can understand the TTH suspicion', or, 'I see where you're coming from, but no', or even 'TTH is town, why are people continuing to not believe this?' like.. anything at all. It's starting to read more and more to me that Alch doesn't really care what happens to TTH, and either doesn't want to go back on a townread he expressed a lot of confidence about, or is trying the 'defend the townie so you can say "i told you so" after their flip', thing.

I mean, yeah, there are other explanations, namely Alch genuinely townreads TTH slot and wants other people to do so as well (which is weird, considering TTH is nowhere near a lynch), or that Alch and TTH are both part of the scumteam. (this one's even weirder)

It leads me to believe that Alch is scum and TTH is town, weirdly enough.

This is similar to how I felt about Panther earlier, regarding Sparrow, but the difference is that Alch has been consistently defending, whereas Panther was at first distracted because of his tunneling on Luna (which appears to be normal for him and non-alignment indicative), and has also changed his tune now.

Alch's reads appear pretty static. When I say this I'm thinking of Bella and TTH, but that's because those are the two reads that stand out to me. Feel free to refute me on this last point.

PEDIT: Okay Alch, this is getting silly. You do know how vague 'getting people talking' is, right?
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Post Post #801 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:01 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

^It should have been perfectly obvious I was strongly Townreading TTH, otherwise I wouldn't be defending this hard. I've grown concerned about the wagon on her because it was the second highest wagon at one point and half the votes were sheep votes. I didn't want things to spiral out of control and result in a lynch on a strong Town player. Honestly, how can you say I don't care what happens to the slot after all I've said. I do feel like there's something else I can't quite explain, and I think again this stems from experience.

As for my reads, the most static ones have been the ones I've been most confident about. I've completely shifted on Luna, Flow went from Town to null, I was unsure about Silver earlier, and the list goes on.
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Post Post #802 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:10 am

Post by MaxwellPuckett »

In post 801, Alchemist21 wrote:^It should have been perfectly obvious I was strongly Townreading TTH, otherwise I wouldn't be defending this hard. I've grown concerned about the wagon on her because it was the second highest wagon at one point and half the votes were sheep votes.
I didn't want things to spiral out of control and result in a lynch on a strong Town player.
Honestly, how can you say I don't care what happens to the slot after all I've said. I do feel like there's something else I can't quite explain, and I think again this stems from experience.

As for my reads, the most static ones have been the ones I've been most confident about. I've completely shifted on Luna, Flow went from Town to null, I was unsure about Silver earlier, and the list goes on.

1) Your point about how she was the second highest wagon at one point, and half the votes were sheep votes, is valid.
2) The bolded, not so much. For one, she's replacing out, so you've already lost your strong town player. That just leaves 'she USED to be the second highest wagon, and the votes USED to be just sheep votes'. And yet you're still defending her just the same as behaviour, without even stumbling.
3) 'how can you say I don't care what happens to the slot', well, the point I was making was that you were putting on an act that you cared about the slot. I don't have evidence of this, and I also can't really explain why the thought even occurred to me without saying more than I should about games that are not this one.
4) Gut is fine, or mysterious 'experience', if you will, but that doesn't warrant this level of townread, either..
5) As for the 'static' reads? You're right, like I said I didn't check, but thanks for making it clear. Speaking of Flow slot, what did you think about what Mario brought up concerning Performer's readslist, as well as I what I said after that?
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Post Post #803 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:15 am

Post by Luna Fox »

In post 801, Alchemist21 wrote:a strong Town player.

This is the first post of TTH constant prod dodge/being busy/sheeping, at that point she had already stopped being a leader/strong town player if what you say about her was true:
In post 507, TellTaleHeart wrote:X|

I meant to get to this yesterday but I didn't and I'm
still
not all here.
Scattered things: I'm townreading both the replace-ins (Luna and Shiro). Quick evaluation of the Lizard wagon: I like the composition of the wagon. Lizard herself has mostly escaped my notice and I'm not town reading anything of hers so I'll vote the wagon and move things along.

VOTE: Lizard

That said, I understand the hesitance to lynch someone you townread, i just still don't see any reason for that townread to be that strong.
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Post Post #804 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:22 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

@Max, yeah his scumreads all have similar reasons. I'm not as concerned about it at the moment though because he's replacing into a 30-page game and it's his first impression of the gamestate, plus unlike the others I think this one is a new player and not an alt.

I really don't know how to explain the TTH read better than I already have, and I'm getting frustrated that I can't get you all to see it.
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Post Post #805 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:24 am

Post by MaxwellPuckett »

In post 804, Alchemist21 wrote:@Max, yeah his scumreads all have similar reasons. I'm not as concerned about it at the moment though because he's replacing into a 30-page game and it's his first impression of the gamestate, plus unlike the others I think this one is a new player and not an alt.

I really don't know how to explain the TTH read better than I already have, and I'm getting frustrated that I can't get you all to see it.

Have you considered that the resistance to townreading TTH is because your read on her is less logical and more emotional?

And, I believe I said more about Performer than 'his scumreads all have similar reasons'.
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Post Post #806 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:24 am

Post by Luna Fox »

I really can't bring myself to lynch TTH ever after a defense like that.
It touches my heart.
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Post Post #807 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:31 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 805, MaxwellPuckett wrote:
In post 804, Alchemist21 wrote:@Max, yeah his scumreads all have similar reasons. I'm not as concerned about it at the moment though because he's replacing into a 30-page game and it's his first impression of the gamestate, plus unlike the others I think this one is a new player and not an alt.

I really don't know how to explain the TTH read better than I already have, and I'm getting frustrated that I can't get you all to see it.

Have you considered that the resistance to townreading TTH is because your read on her is less logical and more emotional?

And, I believe I said more about Performer than 'his scumreads all have similar reasons'.


I hadn't really thought of that, but even with that I maintain my confidence in the read.

As for performer, yeah I see your point, but again I think that may be just a case of replacing into a long game. He's still null for me, but I'm willing to give him some breathing room on this.
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Post Post #808 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:33 am

Post by Shiro »

In post 805, MaxwellPuckett wrote:Have you considered that the resistance to townreading TTH is because your read on her is less logical and more emotional?


The heat is up we are putting the red colour here


Image

This ship has sailed
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Post Post #809 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:46 am

Post by PantherPunt »

So Alch really wants SilverJaws to go because of the mudslinging. If the TTH wagon isn't going to get steam, I propose an Alch counter wagon.

VOTE: Alchemist

Max
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Bella


Fire
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ika
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Mario
Shiro


TTH
Alchemist
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Post Post #810 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:53 am

Post by Shiro »

@Panth to be fair all the counter wagon are on silver since he is the leading wagon

And you my friend are attempting to create the 3rd counter wagon to his. I doubt it will grow but yea.

Also scumreading both TTH and Alche is illogical. Scum have no reason to go that far to protect a team mate. What makes you think scumAlche would defend ScumTTH that much ?

Also i appear I am your third top scumread. Cool cool why?

Also you townread jaws. Again why ? What has he done that makes you think he is town ? <<<This question goes to your too performer cause you said my anylis about him was town yet you townread him. What has he done that can justify anything above a null. I do not get it.
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Post Post #811 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:05 am

Post by MaxwellPuckett »

In post 810, Shiro wrote:
@Panth to be fair all the counter wagon are on silver since he is the leading wagon

And you my friend are attempting to create the 3rd counter wagon to his. I doubt it will grow but yea.

Also scumreading both TTH and Alche is illogical. Scum have no reason to go that far to protect a team mate. What makes you think scumAlche would defend ScumTTH that much ?

Also i appear I am your third top scumread. Cool cool why?

Also you townread jaws. Again why ? What has he done that makes you think he is town ? <<<This question goes to your too performer cause you said my anylis about him was town yet you townread him. What has he done that can justify anything above a null. I do not get it.

Yeah, I really don't see both Alch and TTH on a scumteam together.

Panther, I don't remember. Did you already answer me about why Veidth was a townread for you?
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Post Post #812 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:34 am

Post by Vedith »

Considering I haven't done anything for the last 2 days... Makes me wonder too.
I claim scum \o/
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Post Post #813 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:36 am

Post by PantherPunt »

In post 810, Shiro wrote:
@Panth to be fair all the counter wagon are on silver since he is the leading wagon

And you my friend are attempting to create the 3rd counter wagon to his. I doubt it will grow but yea.

Also scumreading both TTH and Alche is illogical. Scum have no reason to go that far to protect a team mate. What makes you think scumAlche would defend ScumTTH that much ?

Also i appear I am your third top scumread. Cool cool why?

Also you townread jaws. Again why ? What has he done that makes you think he is town ? <<<This question goes to your too performer cause you said my anylis about him was town yet you townread him. What has he done that can justify anything above a null. I do not get it.


unless Alch is committed to the idea that "of course nobody will think scum is harddefending their partner like that" just like you are voicing. At worst, I think 1 of the 2 of them is scum. And I'm not going to rule out both...not yet (esp since you're asking me to).

You are an additional scumread bc I didn't like your predecessor. Then I liked you for a bit...then you got really into the SilverJaws wagon... And I just don't see the scum case on Silver being strong enough to make him the clear lynch choice. Not nearly as much as TTH or Alch, personally. Silver case seems a bit forced/pushed for my liking.
Tbf, the groupings are not in order. They are just groupings mainly. And you might be interchangeable with Mario or either of the two in the null/white grouping (ie you might be null but I'm leaning toward the scum side of the line rather than the town side atm).

I townread Jaws because he called out TTH for similar things to me (I might be victim to buddying/being parroted -
maybe
) but because he
also
added to what I said with
original
analysis. By pointing out that TTH didn't seem to care to ask me *what* I found offputting about TTH, Alch, and Varian. She just seemed to care about dismissing me. That's something nobody else brought up (including me, embarrassingly enough) and shows me he's not *just* sheeping opinions, but rather analyzing all info.

@Max - for Vedith - I can't recall many specific posts that make me think he's town. I do recall one where he said something like "that should worry you" (when he was accused of buddying Joram iirc).
He's said some scummy things (another reason why I don't hate SilverJaws posts). But I've gotten the impression he has said some scummy things intentionally to see what kind of responses he gets. I'll ISO him and pull quotes if you want. All of these reads are dynamic, of course. That's why they need updating from time to time.
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Post Post #814 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:38 am

Post by Vedith »

You just copied Performer with the saying scummy things intentionally. :evil:
I claim scum \o/
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Post Post #815 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:40 am

Post by PantherPunt »

Spoiler: Vedith posts I like
In post 58, Vedith wrote:Never played with Joraman
@Joraman - there are possible riles that can give proof though. Here's a tip, if you see me in a game then enter. I always look scummy :twisted:

So, Fire... Explain how Arch tried to look too towns?

In post 129, Vedith wrote:You should have more than just some concern. However, making that statement without any questions or without any follow up, what are you trying to gain?

In post 132, Vedith wrote:@Lizard - Arch is town for you because...?
Any particular post?

Nice originality on your reason for me. Glad that wasn't said just before your post.

In post 151, Vedith wrote:
In post 144, Alchemist21 wrote:I wanted to see how you would react to the accusation, since I don't know if your buddying was Town or scum motivated.


It wasn't actually buddying, I was being sarcastic.
The fact that I questioned a very weak read is your reasoning for me buddying. That says it all about how you will be playing this game.

In post 154, Vedith wrote:
In post 152, PantherPunt wrote:
In post 149, Firebringer wrote:
In post 131, PantherPunt wrote:
In post 129, Vedith wrote:You should have more than just some concern. However, making that statement without any questions or without any follow up, what are you trying to gain?


scum aren't looking to gain anything. just cast shade and suspcion that they hope others latch onto :)

VOTE: alchemist

You must pay for voting Alchemist!!!
VOTE: PantherPunt
Take your vote of Alchemist, he is town!


I can't tell if you're still being jokey or if you have that strong of a town read this early in the game. Can you enlighten me?


Anything that FB says never makes sense.
However, he does set in his ways so I expect he is serious on the Alch being town part.

In post 176, Vedith wrote:That took a whole 5 seconds to find...

In post 373, Vedith wrote:@FB - if TTH is scum, wouldn't that make Bella most likely town?
I know TTH has unvoted (correct me if I'm wrong TTH) but it's only so he can catch up and look into the game more, right?
The thought of voting Bella is still there by him.

In post 380, Vedith wrote:Why so worried about a wagon on you?

In post 401, Vedith wrote:
In post 398, Luna Fox wrote:Is my english really that bad, or are ppl just not reading my posts :(


Your English is fine, your reasons are not...

In post 643, Vedith wrote:Because as I said, when he's scum he is pushy and involved... When he's town he sits back a lot.
I can draw a picture if that helps?

Upon an ISO reread, I like Vedith a lot. If there are any questions about why I like any of these posts, feel free to ask. Unlike TTH - I will give understandable responses that fit the question that is asked.
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Post Post #816 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:40 am

Post by PantherPunt »

In post 814, Vedith wrote:You just copied Performer with the saying scummy things intentionally. :evil:

Except I can give specific examples :)
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Post Post #817 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:45 am

Post by Shiro »

In post 813, PantherPunt wrote:I townread Jaws because he called out TTH for similar things to me (I might be victim to buddying/being parroted - maybe) but because he also added to what I said with original analysis. By pointing out that TTH didn't seem to care to ask me *what* I found offputting about TTH, Alch, and Varian. She just seemed to care about dismissing me. That's something nobody else brought up (including me, embarrassingly enough) and shows me he's not *just* sheeping opinions, but rather analyzing all info



The problem with that is that he never actually pushed it. He voice a more anylised version of what you said, voted and then disappeared. That is not town behaviour. If he thought he found something and truly anylised why wasn't he here to press the issue ? Why didn't he push the wagon when it had heat ?

I twice said that I was willing to go to the TTH wagon and you gave a few reasons as to why I should switch. Where was he trying to do the same ? <All those things add up.

If you think my case is forced then I can't convince you otherwise but I AM really into the wagon. I am the one leading and I truly believe he will flip scum.
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Post Post #818 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:49 am

Post by PantherPunt »

Like I said before, I can't stop silver lynch. And if you're right Shiro, feel free to "I told you so" as much as you'd like.

You don't think Alch and TTH are both scum, so gun to head, which do you think is more likely to be scum?
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Post Post #819 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:55 am

Post by Firebringer »

omg i love
I am usually not one to gush at cute things, but man that got to me.

I MUST REASSERT MY MANLINESS!!! *does something manly like punch a wall*
Show
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #820 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:57 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 819, Firebringer wrote:omg i love
I am usually not one to gush at cute things, but man that got to me.

I MUST REASSERT MY MANLINESS!!! *does something manly like punch a wall*


I'm assuming you meant 808.
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Post Post #821 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:59 am

Post by Shiro »

In post 818, PantherPunt wrote:Like I said before, I can't stop silver lynch. And if you're right Shiro, feel free to "I told you so" as much as you'd like.

You don't think Alch and TTH are both scum, so gun to head, which do you think is more likely to be scum?


TTH which is why I was willing to change if I could be convinced that Jaws was worth keeping around. It bothers me a bit that she was a counterwagon to jaws(because the likehood of us having two wagons on scum is slim) but yea.

I could see alch going for the I told you she was town card and be scum himself but I would expect him to pull a hard defence on her only if she was in real imminent danger and she was active. The fact she was inactive makes me think he legitimatly townreads her enough to hard defend her.
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Post Post #822 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:03 am

Post by Firebringer »

In post 820, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 819, Firebringer wrote:omg i love
I am usually not one to gush at cute things, but man that got to me.

I MUST REASSERT MY MANLINESS!!! *does something manly like punch a wall*


I'm assuming you meant 808.

lol, fail on my part.
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"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #823 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:06 am

Post by Shiro »

Diego hasn't impressed me either
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Post Post #824 (ISO) » Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:01 pm

Post by PantherPunt »

In post 823, Shiro wrote:
Diego hasn't impressed me either

Glad to hear that since he hasn't posted anything of value yet..... -_-

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