Mini Normal 1716 - Flavourless Mafia - [Game Over]

[Vedith]

@Kyubey - As it's more important to find SK today (Obviously detail if you disagree) who would you point at being SK, if you do suspect anyone of course.
I've never played a full game with Mick, so I currently don't know his meta (Or at least a thin line of it). So it's hard to comment if he would do this kind of thing as SK or not.
I like the fact of post 50 though. Could be worth looking into reactions when I'm home later, if there were any.

[Aneninen]

Vedith, you're scumhunting selectively.

[Vedith]

I'm just working with what we have. The fact that there is very little input from others is what makes it hard...
I mean, where is your case on the preferred lynches? Where is anything from you?

[Aneninen]

Plenty of work IRL, what's what I have.

[Vedith]

So you took the time to read through my comments (and I would assume the others since your post yesterday) but not the time to add anything.

[Aneninen]

I'm able to read the forum on mobile but unable to make long posts.

[Vedith]

Fair enough.

[Draynth]

ChannelDelibird replaces Duppin, welcome!

[ChannelDelibird]

Hello, everyone! Will be reading the thread and summing up thoughts this evening.

[Vedith]

Welcome.

[Cavane]

Hey CDB! I think I remember playing with you from a while back. Glad you could join us.

[ChannelDelibird]

Hey CDB! I think I remember playing with you from a while back. Glad you could join us.

Indeed. Counterclaimed me as a mason in Patrick's Sicilian Mafia, if I remember correctly. I think it's just you with whom I've played before, of the living players. Nice to see a familiar face.

[ChannelDelibird]

Town:

EV, Cavane

Made almost no impression on me:

Vedith, TheWorst

Scummy:

Kyubey, Muffin, Anen, CMM, Liger

Ugh. I don't have anything like the number of townreads that I would normally expect for this point in a game. I wasn't even happy with townreading Banana as I read through even though I knew he was flipped town.

Obviously not all of the people listed above can be scum but that's just to give you an idea of how my reactions have fallen. On some players I have caveats, some maybe-this maybe-that, but I've disliked more than I've liked from all five.

Spoiler: Townreads on EV and Cavane

So let's start with the things that feel simple to me: EV is my strongest townread. It started here, which feels satisfyingly open in a way that posts like that often really don't. There's also this, where EV suspects Bacde for a very similar (but more roughly articulated) reason as one of those behind my suspicion of Kyubey (more on that later) - similar reasoning usually says to me that someone is in the same mindset as me, so EV strikes me as town. The primary reason, though, is that I'm pretty sure that this unguarded-looking comment shows that, if the mafia in this game had pregame chat, EV is no such mafia. How to approach a game with an SK is sure to be at the top of the list for mafia pregame chat; I doubt very much that mafia would be able to fake lack of knowledge about the setup. That's making an assumption about pregame chat but I can't remember the last game that I saw where mafia

couldn't

talk in pregame, so I'm just going to go ahead and assume. It also doesn't rule out SK but other EV posts (and scumminess elsewhere) make me happy to not worry about that.

Cavane townread is partly based on the fact that a buncha people treated him weirdly and also I thought completely the opposite that Bacde did of this; I think scum is likelier to join the chorus by criticising "defensiveness" rather than say something different like "aggro". It tells me that Cavane has been reading Bacde separately and evaluating his play for himself rather than it being a case of him deciding whether or not (or how) to join the wagon.

Spoiler: Kyubey is scum

I've been rubbed up the wrong way by Kyubey for a long time. His second vote looked like it was intended to get a wagon started so that the game could progress, but he came off it too quickly and this looks like he's just farting around rather than wanting to get to scumhunting. But then he comes back later to defend his second vote (the one which he abandoned) and it's super weird - if the vote was rooted in something that might be alignment-indicative, why lather it in unseriousness? Accusing someone of being too eager to start a bandwagon when you voted for three people in about a nanosecond? That seems like something he's saying after the fact rather than a real thought process that he had at the time. I don't buy it.

Kyubey expressed suspicion of Bacde for some time but only now is he "starting to think he's scum". NOPE. That's disingenuous language meant to persuade others to vote with him. It's faked. Not having it.

Talking about "before I return to suspecting him" is NOT TOWN LANGUAGE. That's the kind of way in which scum talk about tactics, about maintaining their image and pushing at the right times. It reduces suspicion to artificiality, which is not how town thinks.

Kyubey is definitely my top scumread. I'd make bets.

Spoiler: Muffin is scum

This is the kind of post that scum like to make. It stalls for time despite having done little already and asks questions that don't promise useful answers (people are already asking Bacde about this, for example, and do you really expect anything that wasn't said at the time?).

Why has nobody FLIPPED OUT ABOUT THIS? What kind of town flags up what they think might be a power role trying to stay hidden? And nobody's asking questions after Bacde, who was heavily suspected for most of Day 1, died last night and flipped as a power role? A post like this has NO town benefit but it helps the scum by flagging up possible kill targets in the event of EM being lynched/replaced/whatever. It betrays an interest in power-role hunting that town DO NOT have.

Here is Muffin coasting on the gamestate instead of doing something about it and here is him saying something that's incredibly rich given that he's spent most of the pissing contest chewing popcorn on the sidelines? When is Muffin actually going to do anything about "lynching some scummy motherfuckers"?

Spoiler: Not sure about Anen; SK?

Anen thinks that Cavane's vote on Bacde is cause for concern but votes Bacde in the same post: nonono. If you think Cavane's relationship to the wagon is a scummy one in that way then it strongly implies that Bacde is town. This feels like Anen trying to have his cake and eat it too; it's not a good look.

And, like, that's kind of all that he did on Day 1. And then he has the temerity to come in and be all "you'd better not mislynch someone again"? Incredibly rich from someone who was almost entirely anonymous.

However, I feel it's significant that Muffin unvotes almost immediately after Anen again stresses the quicklynch thing again. If Muffin is scum, which I think that he is, then it strikes me as highly unlikely that Anen is his buddy as the unvote is the kind of skittish reaction that scum have when they think that they're starting to worry the town, indicating that Muffin considers Anen as likely town, even though SK is technically possible. But yeah, I'm super weirded out by that one Day 1 post and the lack of basically all the others from Anen, so I think that a playing-it-quiet SK is entirely plausible here.

Spoiler: ConManMick

Jesus Christ, man. I don't think that he's done anything of substance at all. Not helping town one bit.

Spoiler: Liger may be scum

Not entirely sure about Liger because I've at least liked the volume that has gone into his posts when he's made them, but often the content has me concerned. I was first put off by his entry into the game, which is written extremely robotically. If it's meant to be serious (which, judging by the rest of his posts, I think it is), then it feels really awkward and self-conscious, which I associate with scum more than town.

Here he thinks that CMM is a "town buffoon" but lists him as "null-scum"? Whuh? That doesn't scan.

He seems to be playing both sides of the Cavane wagon in the series of posts beginning here. I also find it weird that someone with a join date of roughly two weeks ago is making sweeping statements about trends in mafia behaviour. Is Liger an alt?

This read is weaker than the others and probably the first that I'd drop but also the first one to which I'd come back if I were wrong about Kyubey or Muffin.

tl;dr

Kyubey and Muffin are scum. Think that Anen might be the SK but not strongly enough to go SK-hunting specifically; I think in this situation our top priority should be to nail scum of any kind, and my read is stronger on the other two. We will likely need the SK to do some of our work for us after our poor start to this game.

VOTE: Kyubey

[Kyubey The Kid]

@Delibird I think you're making a lot of assumptions about me, but I can't really defend myself here without probably getting into a big argument that could distract us all from actual scum hunting. I will say that I think I explained my reasoning well enough in my posts for anyone to understand my thought process, but I'll answer any questions you might have if you haven't made up your mind about me.

[Cavane]

@Kyubey - As it's more important to find SK today

@Vedith: Why do you say this? I'm more of a mind with CDB that we need the SK's help at this point.

[Vedith]

@Kyubey - As it's more important to find SK today

@Vedith: Why do you say this? I'm more of a mind with CDB that we need the SK's help at this point.

You are only going by if the SK or scum hit each other. If we lynch scum, the odds are in favor for town to be hit during the night (6 in 7 chance scum hit us, 3 in 4 for SK to hit us).
That's high odds for us to go into day 3 with 4 town vs 2 scum vs 1 SK.

That's keeping in mind if it's not a mis lynch. If it's a mis lynch our odds get better to not lose 2 in the night, but we are still the favored party (5 out of 6 scum hit us, 5 out of 8 SK hit us).

[Aneninen]

I don't have much time, however, there's not too many things happening.
The more I read Vedith, the scummier he is. With all those selective scumhunting, focusing on the SK alone... As I have time there will be a case built.

[ChannelDelibird]

Well, that's weird. Why is the only person directly engaging with the replacement's catch-up and reads the person he's voting for, saying only "well, it would get in the way if I defended myself"? I can't play this game by myself, guys.

[Cavane]

Well, that's weird. Why is the only person directly engaging with the replacement's catch-up and reads the person he's voting for, saying only "well, it would get in the way if I defended myself"? I can't play this game by myself, guys.

Yeah, the activity this Day has been pretty abysmal. I did take note of the remark though. Don't really like it, but I'm not ready to change my vote, at least not until Mick says something of value.

[ChannelDelibird]

Obviously I can sympathise with votes on Mick. It's just that useless lurking is not behaviour totally limited to scum, while some of Kyubey and Muffin's posts are suuuuuper scummy.

[Cavane]

4 posts from 3 people all Saturday? This isn't looking good. =/

[Aneninen]

We're stalled as pigeon poop.

Let's make this game move.

VOTE: Vedith

[Vedith]

So where's this case you was going to show?

[Draynth]

Day 2, Votecount 2

ConManMick (4): Vedith, Kyubey The Kid, Cavane, Evvenomous

(L-2)

Vedith (1): Aneninen
Kyubey The Kid (1): ChannelBird
Cavane (0):
EverydayMuffin (0):
Aneninen (0):
TheWorst(0):
Evvenomous (0):
Liger_Zero (0):
ChannelBird (0):

Not Voting (4):

EverydayMuffin, ConManMick, TheWorst, , Liger_Zero,
*

If you notice a mistake in any of the votecounts, please don't hesitate to let me know either in thread or via pm

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch or 6 to no lynch.

Deadline

: Sunday September 27^th, 2015 12:00 PM (Noon)  Irish Time. (UTC)

Countdown to deadline

: Paused

(expired on 2015-09-27 13:00:00)

[/area]

[EverydayMuffin]

Will post soon, apologies.