Mini 1715 - Z - Game over!

[zakk]

EXPERIMENT NOTES 1.16

Ciara has (expired on 2015-09-18 15:27:00) to respond before being replaced.

SUBJECTS ASSERTING AGGRESSIVE ACTIVITY:

Ciara24 [6] Thor665, KarmicGuide, Radja, pistachi0n, Nachomamma8, eventi
KarmicGuide [4] gummmybear, Garmr, Gimlear, Bellaphant
pistachi0n [1] davesaz
Bellaphant [0]
davesaz [0]
eventi [0]
Garmr [0]
Gimlear [0]
gummmybear [0]
Nachomamma8 [0]
Radja [0]
SilverWolf [0]
Thor665 [0]

SUBJECTS DISPLAYING PASSIVE TENDENCY:

Ciara24, SilverWolf

[gummmybear]

bah my internet again swallowed my post. also this:

Thor's reactions since the last time I posted seem town. I still don't like the Ciara wagon, but Karmic is a stronger town read. With no posted countdown, I can't bet on it being 2 weeks. So fine.

VOTE: Ciara

the whole bit on the countdown pings weird to me. it's specifically stated in the rules that Days are 14 days and Nights are 3 days. seems a bit reaching to use that to hop onto a wagon.

that's about all I've managed to catch so far in my limited time and energy. Also it's interesting how a Karmic wagon seems to be slowly building up now

[Thor665]

Phase termination interval:

(expired on 2015-09-20 12:22:00)

Ooooh, though I did find the countdown.

I am good with the Ciara lynch or will support a sudden mass blitz on Pistach.
I am around a lot (shock) so will not be the first to move, but if someone does, I will too.
I am tepid on the Karmic push.

[Thor665]

Also it's interesting how a Karmic wagon seems to be slowly building up now

Is it? That wagon has been around for some time, was actually bigger than CIara for a spell, then lost some steam, and is now regaining it. Seems normal to me.

[Thor665]

@Mod - as we are currently at L-1 on an empty lurk slot, could we get a deadline extension? It is fairly obvious that we need to see feedback from the slot that hasn't been around and that is why the game is currently in doldrums, and even by your own words it still has about 1/6th of our remaining time before replacement will even be sought.

[zakk]

If replacement occurs at this late stage, the deadline will be extended by one week.

[Nachomamma8]

I'd be amendable to flashwagons on all of pistachi0n/Gummy/eventi with a preference for eventi/pistachi0n.

[Nachomamma8]

But mostly I just want to lynch Ciara and see what happens.

[Garmr]

@Garmr, just skimmed your iso and the only point I see you make is 255 that Karmic called Ciara a lurker.

What did I miss?

........ DON'T SKIM PLEASE AND ACTUALLY READ IT THERE'S MORE.........

[Garmr]

I'm getting kinda annoyed with saving things over and over to drill a point in.

[pistachi0n]

Bah, my post got swallowed up. @Thor, Looking at the wagon, I don't like pistachon for the way he's hopped onto the wagon, going from not wanting to be anyway near a Ciara lynch to slipping on with the reason of not liking the other wagon - without any provocation and doing so rather quietly (and early in the wagon at 4th place). Don't like how he switches his read on you in less than a page for "looking town" and doesn't really specify or mention anything. Does this seem weird to anyone else?

eventi also seems strange to me, I'm not so sure about the rest. Need to read more.

The two wagons are between Karmic and Ciara. I had previously stated that Karmic was my only town read. I got the gut feeling that Thor's posts were genuine. So I reluctantly switched to Ciara.

I know the rules say 2 weeks, but the lack of a posted timer means it could sneak up on us.

[pistachi0n]

At the point of making the earlier post on which I voted Ciara, I was under the impression the countdown was a surprise. I looked at the rules again afterwards and yes, I felt silly.

[Thor665]

I'd be amendable to flashwagons on all of pistachi0n/Gummy/eventi with a preference for eventi/pistachi0n.

I literally have soft town reads on two of those names.

Have you looked at both of their recent postings? They are immeasurably superior to their earlier stuff.

@Garmr, just skimmed your iso and the only point I see you make is 255 that Karmic called Ciara a lurker.

What did I miss?

........ DON'T SKIM PLEASE AND ACTUALLY READ IT THERE'S MORE.........

...NOTICE THAT I QUOTED STUFF, ASKED IF I WAS WRONG, AND HAVE BEEN REPEATEDLY ASKING YOU TO TAKE UP THE GAUNTLET AND STATE THE CASE OPENLY, SIMPLY, AND IN ONE PLACE, WHAT "MORE" AM I MISSING EXACTLY...

At the point of making the earlier post on which I voted Ciara, I was under the impression the countdown was a surprise. I looked at the rules again afterwards and yes, I felt silly.

With your new timer awareness how do you feel about your current vote?

[Thor665]

I'm getting kinda annoyed with saving things over and over to drill a point in.

Quote one of the repeated sayings of the case that sums it up?
I read your iso and, at best, found one statement and no repetitions - presuming it's the whole case.

[Garmr]

@Garmr, just skimmed your iso and the only point I see you make is 255 that Karmic called Ciara a lurker.

What did I miss?

........ DON'T SKIM PLEASE AND ACTUALLY READ IT THERE'S MORE.........

...NOTICE THAT I QUOTED STUFF, ASKED IF I WAS WRONG, AND HAVE BEEN REPEATEDLY ASKING YOU TO TAKE UP THE GAUNTLET AND STATE THE CASE OPENLY, SIMPLY, AND IN ONE PLACE, WHAT "MORE" AM I MISSING EXACTLY...

[

AND I FUCKING HAVE, I WANT TO CHOKE YOU TO DEATH RIGHT NOW. 268 Fucking to 268 my main points I even surmise what I'm saying at the end of it.

Backtracking,mudthrowing,reaching,Finding a excuse to jump on the lead wagon there's a plethora of reasons why you are scum.

if you want to know how i came to those conclusion read that post BUT IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT MORE YOUR MISSING IS A BRAIN.

[Gimlear]

Why do I feel like this is a loaded question?

Because you're scum and scared of slipping?

No, it was because I had a feeling you would oversimplify the case... which is exactly what you did.

Karmic's most flawed argument is that he was wishy-washy in dealing with Woody's pressing of a case based off a misunderstanding. This is shown because Karmic accepted Woody's answer and then later decided he didn't after 24 hours and more posting by both on the subject - this shows that Karmic uses flawed reasoning because he...changed his mind and announced as such?

Is that right? That's his biggest flawed argument in your mind and/or the best example thereof?

Just because this is, in my opinion, the biggest flaw, doesn't mean it's the only reason I'm leery of him. It's a pattern of him throwing weak arguments out there and seeing what sticks. I have stated before that it is a weak case; I was simply explaining why I thought it was better than Ciara's case. That being said, as I've mentioned before, I'm not opposed to a Ciara lynch.

My comment was only misleading if you, y'know, hadn't read anything I'd posted in the game.
So you think her posts prior to going lurk were showing scumhunting?
I really, really, don't.
I don't even think there's an argument there, like, they are bereft of scumhunting. Literally all she did was poke at me due to me making a misleading comment and then did nothing else and called me a town read, along with Karmic. That comes off as both scumhunting and genuine to you?

First, you say your comment wasn't misleading, then say it was misleading... Which is it? Second, not everyone has time to read every single post. Some people skim, so when you deliberately set up a trap like that, it's just as likely to catch town as it is to catch scum. I don't think anything she did was particularly alignment indicative.

Like what?
If he flipped town all we would know is that he was honest when he was changing his mind and pressing some cases that, I at least, have not been blown away by - it wouldn't actually tell us anything more than that. So whether he posted buckets or posted nothing (like Ciara) I am unsure of the value difference there. In fact, i submit there is no value difference.
Can you offer me one read (just one) that we would gain if Karmic flipped town?
Like, if he was an Innocent Child and declared right now and did nothing else - what info would you then have to draw a new conclusion in this game?

For one, I would like to see Woody's (who unfortunately has been replaced) and Garmr's reactions, since they are the biggest proponents of Karmic's wagon. Reactions to a town flip can be useful information.

Let me ask you this, though: why are you defending Karmic so much instead of letting Karmic defend himself? In fact, why is Karmic not defending himself? There's still pending accusations from Garmr that he hasn't addressed.

Why do we need her to respond? Mod will either replace her for flake or we will lynch her sans claim - her flaking/lurking is not actually a valid reason to dismantle a wagon on her.
If it is then I know my new scum strategy
But, you know it isn't.

This is a valid point, which is why I was considering an intent to hammer on Ciara before the others already did it. Regardless,

I third the intent to hammer on Ciara.

Now the question is, do we want to lynch her before she gets replaced or wait for her to get replaced so we can get a claim from the slot?

[eventi]

I'd be amendable to flashwagons on all of pistachi0n/Gummy/eventi with a preference for eventi/pistachi0n.

Are these all policy lynches?

[eventi]

@Garmr, just skimmed your iso and the only point I see you make is 255 that Karmic called Ciara a lurker.

What did I miss?

........ DON'T SKIM PLEASE AND ACTUALLY READ IT THERE'S MORE.........

I'm getting kinda annoyed with saving things over and over to drill a point in.

I'm perfectly happy knowing there's no case, I'm just giving you the opportunity to show me explicitly, since I'm not getting it from a regular read and a skim of your iso. And nobody cares if you're annoyed... I kinda like it actually

[eventi]

@Garmr, just skimmed your iso and the only point I see you make is 255 that Karmic called Ciara a lurker.

What did I miss?

........ DON'T SKIM PLEASE AND ACTUALLY READ IT THERE'S MORE.........

...NOTICE THAT I QUOTED STUFF, ASKED IF I WAS WRONG, AND HAVE BEEN REPEATEDLY ASKING YOU TO TAKE UP THE GAUNTLET AND STATE THE CASE OPENLY, SIMPLY, AND IN ONE PLACE, WHAT "MORE" AM I MISSING EXACTLY...

[

AND I FUCKING HAVE, I WANT TO CHOKE YOU TO DEATH RIGHT NOW. 268 Fucking to 268 my main points I even surmise what I'm saying at the end of it.

Backtracking,mudthrowing,reaching,Finding a excuse to jump on the lead wagon there's a plethora of reasons why you are scum.

if you want to know how i came to those conclusion read that post BUT IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT MORE YOUR MISSING IS A BRAIN.

Now I think you need a hug. Go look up impotent

[Thor665]

AND I SMURFING HAVE, I WANT TO CHOKE YOU TO DEATH RIGHT NOW. 268 Fucking to 268 my main points I even surmise what I'm saying at the end of it.

If you are serious, you need to replace out of this game immediately and not play Mafia again till you get whatever in your life is upsetting you this much under control.
If you are not serious (and I don't think you are) - I find this to be grandstanding to a comical level.

Backtracking,mudthrowing,reaching,Finding a excuse to jump on the lead wagon there's a plethora of reasons why you are scum.

if you want to know how i came to those conclusion read that post BUT IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT MORE YOUR MISSING IS A BRAIN.

So it *was* what I quoted then?
You were claiming I missed something - I didn't think i had, and this seems to support that stance.

The lead wagon point strikes me as obvious bollocks though - he unvoted from a 3 person wagon to vote a 2 person wagon and make it a 3 person. So clearly either you are remembering things wrong or you are mudslinging on that point.
Also, I agree with Nacho about the backtrack, it was, at worst, a sidestep.
The mudthrowing I guess exists, but...eh, look at how much you're denigrating other people's play, which is also a scumtactic to the same degree as mudslinging - how do you define the difference?

No, it was because I had a feeling you would oversimplify the case... which is exactly what you did.

How did I oversimplify it unfairly?

First, you say your comment wasn't misleading, then say it was misleading... Which is it?

I would say not misleading - the second time I was expressing it from your stance where you believe it was misleading when expressing your read of her.

Second, not everyone has time to read every single post. Some people skim, so when you deliberately set up a trap like that, it's just as likely to catch town as it is to catch scum.

So you agree she was skimming, you just disagree that it was scummy skimming - okay.
I note that the skimming was used to attack, and she missed at least once subsequent to her attack (in a response to her) wherein I pointed out that it was a joke and not true.
So in her skimming she also wasn't reading the replies of the person she was attacking - do you think that also comes from town?

I don't think anything she did was particularly alignment indicative.

Oh, I thought when you said you saw scumhunting and reasoning you thought she was a town read - a null read makes more sense to me.
Still not sure why you dislike the case though.

For one, I would like to see Woody's (who unfortunately has been replaced) and Garmr's reactions, since they are the biggest proponents of Karmic's wagon. Reactions to a town flip can be useful information.

I agree, you would learn stuff from the people pushing the wagon.
Just like if Ciara was lynched - making them equal.

Let me ask you this, though: why are you defending Karmic so much instead of letting Karmic defend himself?

I am asking people to defend their attack against the Ciara wagon - I have openly stated that I am fine with the Karmic wagon. I will agree I am attacking people voting the Karmic wagon, which is a roundabout defense of him. But then I am also attacking people who are voting the Ciara wagon as well - that's just how I play the game. I attack a lot.

In fact, why is Karmic not defending himself? There's still pending accusations from Garmr that he hasn't addressed.

He isn't defending himself because he's lurking.
I don't think there are any pending Garmr questions.

Regardless,

I third the intent to hammer on Ciara.

Guess the wagon wasn't as weak as previously intimated, eh?
I thought you disliked the wagon and the case, no?

Now the question is, do we want to lynch her before she gets replaced or wait for her to get replaced so we can get a claim from the slot?

Is this really a question?

I would also support a speed wagon on Gimlear now. He's not as funny as Garmr in his weird statements anymore.

[Ciara24]

I would rather not be replaced but I understand that I haven't been active, and I will leave that decision up to the mod. Will be busy this weekend but life should hopefully settle down by Monday.

[Thor665]

I feel bad for whatever poor soul is going to get to replace into your slot for the sake of giving the claim that you should have given right there.

[pistachi0n]

@Thor I feel better about my vote now than when I voted her because I'm getting the impression she's chickening. She didn't even claim.

[Gimlear]

@Thor:

1. You are making some good points about the Ciara wagon, which is why I'm willing to lynch her now.

2. At the time, I was assuming she was not going post. But that is why I was asking. I wasn't sure what the protocol is for lynching someone who is in replace range.

3. Now that she has posted and still has not claimed, does that change your answer?

[eventi]

She's been in enough games to know she should have claimed.