NY 190: Molla's Large Normal

[talah]

I was actually disagreeing with Luna. Did you miss that part intentionally?
I saw that comment, and I saw Luna's case on it. But there has been no strong evidence that he knew that there was pre-chat.

I'll have to do it later tonight unless you can tell me the game names he is scum in?
If he hasn't been scum, or if he hasn't pre posted or commented on pre posted in the scum chat then I will give him the benefit of the doubt, however, just once will be enough for me to vote him.

No, I didn't miss it, I just wonder why you're so gung-ho on a point you didn't pick up on, that you would vote them sight unseen (now with conditions apparently, despite saying "just once will be enough for me"), on a situation you apparently don't fully understand.

You feel that strongly about the "fake townslip" do you?
Sorry but I feel that's coming out of nowhere and likely a false assertion on your part.

What do you think about the alternative viewpoints that have been stated?

[talah]

I don't even believe in my own case at this point.
But i kinda want to press this matter further because this is a black/white issue.

If he's faking the townslip he's 100% scum.
If he's not, he's 100% town.

And there's a good chance that even post-game if he's scum, he'd say "I didn't really know so went with my gut and asked". It's not a conclusive tell, none ever is.

Anyway, Ima leave you two to it.

[Luna Fox]

And there's a good chance that even post-game if he's scum, he'd say "I didn't really know so went with my gut and asked". It's not a conclusive tell, none ever is.

Do you seriously think that if he's scum here he wouldn't know about the pre-game chat?
Which is why i think this is a black/white issue and i want to go further before i drive the lynch with fire or treat him as conf town.

[Luna Fox]

i want to go further before

this means other ppl's opinions btw, because im fairly sure if he's scum and reading this he's perfectly capable of faking a reply to it in order to get me to townread them.

[BananaCucho]

Because I'm talking about a finished game where I read your games. You were dead already so you probably didn't see me join in?

There's only one finished game on this site where I was being read as scum and flipped town (after being night killed)

It was a newbie game and the two main players reading me as scum were the IC (scum) and a SE (scum) who were influencing the other's reads.

You're basing a made up meta of me off of that game? Really?

[Vedith]

But I did understand it, where did you get that I didn't understand it? This is why I wanted to see if he was aware of this in another game or not. What are these conditions you are on about? I need you to explain your comment here as you seem to be making shit up.

If a fake town slip is confirmed, why would you not put that person top of your scum list? It has not be confirmed (This is not saying that it's false or true, but rather it is not guaranteed).

I assume you mean from the following 300 305 I can't see much else on the matter. Well 300 explains itself, and your comment is with the assumption that he read the rules correctly. This is not proof.
You post is also null, FA pointing out what could have been a believed flaw in your comment is reasonable instead of asking about the mod making it fair etc.

[talah]

Luna, I think your point is valid but you might be missing the elephant in the room.

Almost everyone you've townread so far has considered your point and given a response.

It's 3.30am here. Night.

[talah]

Yes and night too Vedith.

[Vedith]

Because I'm talking about a finished game where I read your games. You were dead already so you probably didn't see me join in?

There's only one finished game on this site where I was being read as scum and flipped town (after being night killed)

It was a newbie game and the two main players reading me as scum were the IC (scum) and a SE (scum) who were influencing the other's reads.

You're basing a made up meta of me off of that game? Really?

It wasn't a newbie game. I'll find it and link it shortly.

[Aj The Epic]

That doesn't make the current state of affairs acceptable. As IaI just posted, lurking for scum is not a bad tactic. (Unsurprisingly, it's a terrible tactic for town because the lack of reads on a slot hurt the general affairs).

IT'S ELEVEN DAYS FROM DEADLINE

I'M A COMPULSIVE MOTHERFUCKER WHO AIN'T GOT NO CHILL WHEN IT COMES TO LYNCHING!

No but really, if we can get them to post content it's a non-issue to me. In that case, I want to look over (hound) Performer and Kyuubi closely.

To assume he's town just because he's "always scummy" and then "flips town" is just the gambler's fallacy. It's not substantive reasoning at all.

Tbh i found that statement more like a meta reasoning than gambler's fallacy.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=60664 - Partner comments pre game, he doesn't comment on it.

That's his only completed scum game by the looks of it.
I can buy that he didn't know about pre chat.

The player didn't exactly replace in (he's been there by the start) i think? even if FA_Q didn't comment on it he should've seen his partner's posts i think.
Maybe im pressing the issue too hard, but i just find it really, hard, to believe that he didn't know scum has pre-game chat when he's been in so many games.
But if you guys think im wrong, then maybe im wrong.

I think the entire thing is worthless. But Veridith replaced in about a day in.

I've missed a lot of posts since I went to move a roundpen while sitting on this post. I'll post again if there's something to say.

[Aj The Epic]

Oh, to the meta reasoning/gambling fallacy:

I would read it more as a refusal to make a decision. This is just me being cynical but I have people I read wrong a good deal. Still not going to give up on trying to read them.

[BananaCucho]

Because I'm talking about a finished game where I read your games. You were dead already so you probably didn't see me join in?

There's only one finished game on this site where I was being read as scum and flipped town (after being night killed)

It was a newbie game and the two main players reading me as scum were the IC (scum) and a SE (scum) who were influencing the other's reads.

You're basing a made up meta of me off of that game? Really?

It wasn't a newbie game. I'll find it and link it shortly.

I have on this site:
1 newbie game - I was town
1 normal game - I was scum
2 ongoing games not including this one

You're literally making this stuff up and I don't understand what motive there is for that.

[VeeGee]

So, wait, did the argument over lynching me just stop randomly?

[Luna Fox]

You're literally making this stuff up and I don't understand what motive there is for that.

But Banana! people will say that why would scum lie about something that can easily be researched! /snark

Either way, if the FAQ thing wont go through im fine with that, i'll leave my vote there tho, because i don't think they're town.

[Luna Fox]

Also the fact that Vedith has gone out of his way to discredit my point on FAQ is troublesome, while talah goes thinking that my point is valid but not strong enough, Vedith goes like "No evidence = Not true" despite me linking the scum game "Oh he didnt talk in pre-game on the scum chat, ergo, not evidence".

[FA_Q2]

UNVOTE: I am Innocent for now, I was hoping to get something out of that RVS vote, but alas. I want you to talk!

VeeGee

and

Talah

both seem confused from what little content that they contributed, which is usually never a good thing. However, while Talah actually asks decent probing questions to clear up her confusion and get a read, VeeGee adds unnecessary comments and doesn't appear to try to understand the situation. I could only see this coming from the perspective of a lazy town or a low-effort scum.
Either way, I'd like to hear him speak more. Soooo VOTE: Veegee Hi.

I still don't like

catboi

's focus on me, when there's others who have lacked content on the whole. I don't see how my post 104 was so egregious, it's pretty clear I was trying to catch up to a game's speed I wasn't used to with some quick thoughts in a lax tone. And my point on IaI is clearly contentious, but I think I still had a point at the time. Choof in some ways agreed with me here: 129, and AJ kinda had the same idea.

Actually, reread and I liked what choof did with Banana that many interpret as an argument, reminds me of what Bacde did with me once.
Also of the TvT argument with Banana that ended bad.
I want to know if the gripes

@Choof

had with Banana is legit or was it all a reaction test. If so the former, that makes me curious about

Kyubey

who went all in for real with the Banana case. I'd like to know from him if he still thinks Banana is scummy.

FAQ's last post does bug me a bit, not enough to vote though. I would expect him to know better though, rather than trying to get brownie points.

@Banana

Care to explain the Luna vote?

@Performer

I'd like to know your reads now that all of your initial scumreads apparently dissipated.

@Luna Fox

You don't interact too much with some of your townreads, like Talah and Kyubey. Wouldn't that make you more sure if that's your playstyle? I understand some people can have town actions, but are they really that strong when it comes to those two?

Know better?

I have been scum one time on this site (and that was my very first game) and have seen it explicitly in the rules that scum do or do not have a pre-game chat. The other site I used to play at never had a pre-game chat for scum that I can remember. I would expect that there be more question without any explicit explanation as to weather or not scum actually had that capability.

[BananaCucho]

Also the fact that Vedith has gone out of his way to discredit my point on FAQ is troublesome, while talah goes thinking that my point is valid but not strong enough, Vedith goes like "No evidence = Not true" despite me linking the scum game "Oh he didnt talk in pre-game on the scum chat, ergo, not evidence".

Vedith + FAQ. Hmm.

[FA_Q2]

[quote="In post 191Actually it was in the sample Mafia role PM:

...

All this drama because I missed that in the OP.

[BananaCucho]

[quote="In post 191Actually it was in the sample Mafia role PM:

...

All this drama because I missed that in the OP.

I hardly consider the conversation that has been occurring drama. Me and choof, that was drama. This is not so don't downplay it as such.

[Aj The Epic]

So, wait, did the argument over lynching me just stop randomly?

You post good content, then there's no issue. However we're at the weekend, I'm pretty sure it's time for you to hold up your end of the bargain.

Also the fact that Vedith has gone out of his way to discredit my point on FAQ is troublesome, while talah goes thinking that my point is valid but not strong enough, Vedith goes like "No evidence = Not true" despite me linking the scum game "Oh he didnt talk in pre-game on the scum chat, ergo, not evidence".

This isn't a bad lead. However, I do have an issue with the statement where Fa_q2 is either 100% scum/town on this statement. And the other issue I have is it seems like an

Hello Vedith btw.

I'm guessing you're town on what could be completely incorrect game meta which is that the person you replaced did not pick up their role PM.

Ergo no full scumteam to chat pre-game, ergo unfair on the scumteam.

How do you feel about that?

?
this dies not make any sense.

Where did you even get this idea. How do you know that the scum team was able to chat pre-game? I thought that was something that is explicit in the rules or does not happen? Can anyone else speak to this site and the general rules as to scum being able to speak pre-game?

Okay so let's be honest: If he faked this read, he's scum as shit. But here's the thing, the first two sentences can easily be accusations to force a read. Ask yourself this: when we talk about reading thoroughly, who do we expect to be more thorough? Definitely town. So him not reading the rules is actually a mark against him. His own inexperience as scum could work against him where he thinks that this game would be a rare case.

[Aj The Epic]

Unfinished sentence should end like: seems like an attack.

[VeeGee]

Not sure what that has to do with my post you quoted, but okay.

[Aj The Epic]

We won't lynch you if you read up, give content and act like town. Good enough?

[VeeGee]

And I've been engaging in discussion. Your point?

Or is this just another iteration of Fox News?

this sounds like a frustrated scum post

why are you being sarcastic? the wagon on you is clearly real.

Is this the only post of zakk's that really is pointing anything out?

[Aj The Epic]

Yes, you and Zakk are both terribly far behind on content.