Tarot uPick II - GAME OVER

[Luna Fox]

Ok.

[ZeL1nK2]

how did you manage to post 15 pages with me not even here

I imagine it was because the game had just started and people were excited. I expect it will die down real soon. Probably 5 pages tomorrow, 3 the next day, and by four real life days it'll only be at about page 25.

VC 1.2

“Using the tarot cards was like when he had begun learning Latin. He danced ever closer to that moment when he would understand the sentences without having to translate each word.”
― Maggie Stiefvater, The Dream Thieves

Oil Tycoons

(5): Wisdom, Konowa, Kuroko Network, Tammy, Oil Tycoons

Not Voting

(16): Prohawk, BRantz, klingoncelt, AJ the Epic, fluff central, Wall of Fire, Idiocy, LynxKuroneko, Ika Zaru, ProhawkTammy, Perpetual Nonsense, Muki, kamigami, Luna Fox, Aneninem, Medea the Alien

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline: October 2, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-10-01 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Players who have not yet confirmed have 48 hours to post before I'll search for replacements.

This is a very informative post. But I don't feel it's alignment-indicative. Both scum and town can be informative.

Just go with it.

This feels extremely aggressive.

Ok

This feels extremely passive.

Are you an alt, Luna?

What were you going to do, or what are you doing, with the answer to this?

No

Good answer. First rule of alt club is you do not talk about alt club.

Why so srs, breh?

It's not, I'm mostly just curious.

Again, I get the feeling of a fish out of water, struggling to stay alive but slowly suffocating.

I am also partial to lynching this just because that .gif is truly one of the most horrendous .gif images I've ever seen.

No

Cool.

Why so srs, breh?

It's not, I'm mostly just curious.

Good to know, though that was actually a misquote. Was aimed at the other quote, namely

VOTE: Konowa

I don't really understand the empty threat at me from Wall of Fire either, but I'm not particularly scared of them either, sooooooooooooo.

NOTSCIENCE RISE AND SPEAK TO THE RESURRECTED OIL TYCOON

Hm. Disappointing. I thought maybe you felt the same way I did about Kuroko Network's first posts. It turns out you just feel the same way I did about the less interesting but also probably not a good guy posts from Fluff Central.

WE are just going to assume that our stand is better than all of yours.

BERT!

OHMYGODHOWAREYOU

WE swear this is the last video.

WE just want to say that as the Melon Lord with ZA WARUDO, we are nigh invincible.

There's so much content in these posts I don't even know where to begin.

So I won't begin.

No

Lynch all liars.

Echo.

VOTE: Luna Fox

I take it from the "echo" signature here that the previous posts were the other part of that hydra? How are the two of you communicating in this game, out of interest? And/or how are the two of you planning to decide where your vote falls?

Why, if Luna were lying, would that entail Luna is a bad guy wanting to keep that information hidden as opposed to a good guy?

Hello!

I'm against hyper-capitalism, but trains are good for business, so I can't tell whether I should vote Oil Tycoons or not.

I don't really like the tone of this post. I get that it's somewhat of a joke (though not a very good one, and I know what I'm talking about when it comes to good jokes...), but it feels showy in a not good way. Like, either get on the wagon, or don't get on the wagon and don't mention it or do mention it but make an actual point... This wishy-washy in-between stuff just comes across as a fake statement for the sake of making a statement.

VOTE: LynxKuroneko

If I said this vote was serious, would you believe me?

Yes, but only because I'm considering the possibility you're a bad guy and that you're more than likely playing to your win condition here.

Lynch all liars.

I'm not.

She raises a good point. She isn't all liars. Now Kuroko Network's entire case has fallen through and I'm interested to see where they go next.

Bullshit.

Touche.

Well, I suppose it's entirely possible that every liar in the world has access to the Luna Fox account, but if you're going to call bullshit, I'm going to humbly request that you provide some sort of evidence to back up this assertion.

Bullshit.

Thank you, Wall of Fire, for providing such stimulating thoughts. It is a pleasure to read your insightful posts.

Bullshit.

Yare yare da ze.

You also raise some interesting points here.

Wow, there's just so much good content going around right now that it's hard to keep up.

I dont understand why you dont believe me, but im not going to spend pages of just saying no over and over.

But... Are you an alt?

WE swear this is the last video.

WE just want to say that as the Melon Lord with ZA WARUDO, we are nigh invincible.

You're not bert, are you

Hello!

I'm against hyper-capitalism, but trains are good for business, so I can't tell whether I should vote Oil Tycoons or not.

Ceph, it's too early for the wafflemeistering, stahp

VOTE: LynxKuroneko

If I said this vote was serious, would you believe me?

No.

Also what the feck is all this about liaring? DID YOU LIE TO ME LUNA?!

Pedit: Y'know, now I think about it, doesn't this game have a minimum experience cap?

Another in a series of posts full of just such overwhelming amounts of content. I can sincerely say I do not regret in the least reading and responding to everyone of these meaningful posts. Thanks, guys.

Let's move beyond this topic and progress to the next phase of the game, wherein we build a wagon on LynxKuroneko.

I do not particularly find this post endearing in any way. At best, people go, "ah, yes, good point, let us all put votes on someone for no good reason," and at worst, it's just a lazy excuse to increase post count while not providing any useful (or remotely town-looking) content.

No.

In at least one fashion, you would be wrong. It's just serious in a different way than "serious" is usually meant in that context.

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say my original guess was right, then!

Pedit: Y'know, now I think about it, doesn't this game have a minimum experience cap?

Yes, it also said if i had comparable offsite experience the requirement could be waived.

I actually... don't know... how long I can continue doing this. This entire page is even less informative than the confirmation posts were.

WE swear this is the last video.

WE just want to say that as the Melon Lord with ZA WARUDO, we are nigh invincible.

You're not bert, are you

WE are The Collective.

Like, really, just... so much information. How... How can so much information be crammed into one page?

I can tell this is going to be a high-level game with high-level play.

After about two seconds of research, I have decided it is probably not an alt.

It didn't even take me two seconds to decide that I don't care whether it is or not, so I cannot explain why I still tried to determine that.

Good point. Most likely not town making the point, but maybe people will find something else to talk about that isn't whether or not Luna is an alt now...

Let's move beyond this topic and progress to the next phase of the game, wherein we build a wagon on LynxKuroneko.

There's Mastin!

No.

In at least one fashion, you would be wrong. It's just serious in a different way than "serious" is usually meant in that context.

You have piqued my curiosity. Do elaborate. (Yes I know this is dangerous telling mastin to elaborate, /dealwithit)

Pedit: Y'know, now I think about it, doesn't this game have a minimum experience cap?

Yes, it also said if i had comparable offsite experience the requirement could be waived.

/dismissed

WE are The Collective.

Definitely not Bert

Nope, I was wrong.

A truly productive page, guys. Keep up the good work. Can't wait for page four. Hope it's even half as exciting as page three was!

There are some good questions in this but I feel that you won't get your point across if you act like a sarcastic twit. No offense. Just giving you some friendly advice.

I'm sure this is exactly the response being looked for, but I'm doing it anyways.

Vote: ZeL1nK2

I'll go back and reread all that late night drama after work tonight.

I wasn't looking for that response. I am shocked and awed that someone would vote for me when I've very clearly been playing a protown game!

caught up, though I skimmed most parts.

Tammy and Luna are town. Nacho is probably town. So is ns most likely.

VOTE: kuroko

btw Echo Echo asked me to hydra as well, but I refused. I'm pretty sure I know who he is, too.

Why is Tammy town? Why did you vote Kuroko here?

zelink please stop walling. I didn't read a single word you posted, nor do I intend to.

That's OK. As long as we can still be friends, I don't mind if you choose not to read what I write.

If you have a genuine post restriction that says you have to comment on the game, boy I feel bad for you.


If you're just doing this for shits and giggles and because you have LITERALLY NOTHING BETTER TO DO. I suggest you stop because I scream.

--- sincerely,
Someone who has only skimmed the game.

I wouldn't say I literally have nothing better to do with my spare time, but I have nothing better to do with my spare time. I'm sorry if my posts make you feel like screaming. Sometimes it's good to vent things, though, so maybe I'm doing you some good.

VC 1.3

"If you keep your deck in a Crown Royal bag (or a Jack Daniels Tin), you might be a redneck Tarot Reader."
- Liliana

Oil Tycoons

(3): Wisdom, Konowa, Tammy

Konowa

(1): Fluff Central

Wall of Fire

(1): Oil Tycoons

LynxKuroneko

(1): Wall of Fire

Luna Fox

(1): Kuroko Network

Not Voting

(13): BRantz, Ika Zaru, AJ the Epic, Idiocy, Klingoncelt, Aneninen, ProHawk, LynxKuroneko, Perpetual Nonsense, Muki, Kamigami, Luna Fox, Medea the Alien

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline: October 2, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-10-01 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Players who have not yet confirmed have 48 hours to post before I'll search for replacements.

I don't feel this is all that scummy, but I'm hoping at some point you post something more than a votecount. Sooner or later you're going to need to produce real content...

I'm not Mastin, but I'm flattered that you thought I was.

I don't want to explain right now!

When are you going to explain it?

Because I would like it if you didn't just conveniently skip over the explanation when you most likely move your vote elsewhere...

Dammit. On both counts.

Fiiine.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Fluff Machine

I have liked your votes so far this game. Maybe I was a little hasty in being hasty about demoting you from IC status.

Vote: Wall of Fire

FIRE IS BAD FOR BUSINESS
BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD

BAD FOR BUSINESS

At this point, I'm not even going to argue with the fellatious statement. All I will say is that generalisations like that are bad for business.

This is a game with a fuckton of hydra, so we all need to be considerate of our postcounts. Please please please try to keep them under control, if someone's posting gets over the top out of control they need to be purged

Notscience:

1) Good luck getting us lynched because I'm sure as fuck not going to artificially deflate my post when it's fun to post and I'm in the greatest hydra on both side of the Mississippi.

2) If you're serious about changing the spam meta, the important things to cut down on are more objective than postcount. I've never understood why it is difficult to scroll past a string of 5 posts of someone having fun. In my opinion, it's the protracted arguments where people say the same thing over and over again instead of looking and comprehending another player's argument that provide damage to game state and the way you change that is by playing with extra care and consideration, not by threatening to policy lynch people who don't play the way you want them to.

-Grandpa Oil

A rather long post but not a lot is being said.

Please don't make long posts where not a lot is said. It's bad for

business

the game.

I think Oil Tycoons is town.

Maybe.

Vote: Oil Tycoons

Before Nacho can swoon us all.

Too late; the heart shaped lockers with pictures of me and Syryana and engraved with "Oil Tycoons loves you" are already in production and selling like hotcakes.

What does that have to do with anything?

Do you not have a degree in economics?

Do you perhaps have a sample picture or something along those lines of the product in question? And, if I may ask, how much would one cost?

Young hydra heads madly in love seek marriage officiant of the most prim and proper degree.

Oh also this should be obvious but for those of you new to polarity-based mechanics, treat your attributes like you would a power role; don't claim them without reason.

Out of interest, what bad are you envisioning coming from the claiming of attributes? What's going to happen if I claim fire?

As far as serious reads go, Konowa is my only town read. I like the way he approached the situation with mastin, particularly the "he's probably voting me because I failed to disarm him" line; it's a pretty self-aware/cheeky statement for scum to come up with right off the bat.

I'm excited because Tammy's first post didn't seem particularly town; I acknowledge that this probably doesn't mean anything, but I've been waiting for Too Many Heads revenge for a long long time and usually she dashes my hopes after her first post, so I'm gonna be over here dreaming of Tammy-scum if the rest of you don't mind

Vote: Tammy

Hm. Our reads are mostly aligned thus far. I'm going to assume that's not a bad thing. Though of your votes so far, this is the one I'm least in line with, I guess.

I think Oil Tycoons is town.

I think I agree.

Why do you just think you agree? Why do you agree?

Trains are good for business.

VOTE: Oil Tycoons

VOTE: oil tycoons

choo choo

I'm gonna go have a few drinks!

TAMMY DRUNK DANCE WITH ME LATER

BRING THE RAWR

I feel rather neutral about this post. I can't put my finger on why exactly but I don't feel this is an alignemnt-indicative post...

hi guys.

This is kagami, will be doing the posting for us for day 1, unless otherwise specified.

There are subtleties in our role PM that lead me to think we know something about two players who are probably town.

The first person is someone who probably knows that there is a queen in the game. We're confident this person exists, though the description is potentially inaccurate.

The second person is someone who is associated with uncertainty that may go away in time. This person may not exist.

Response not required.

Heh. This prompted me to go back and actually read my role PM searching in detail.

On the surface, this feels like a town post. That said, I am expecting an explanation for this at some point further down the line if

I keep you alive

you remain alive.

#TotallyNotRolefishing

You won't mind if I take that read with a huge shot of Fireball, will you Nacho?

I don't understand what this means but I'm just going to assume it means something town.

Part of me thinks I should start drinking just for this game. Unfortunately, the rest of me thinks that isn't such a good idea :<

Kamikagami maybe town.

Another Kuroko Network post that I don't particularly like in any way, shape or form. The first line isn't of great importance, outside of the fact that it doesn't ring with genuousness. The second line just feels like appeasing more than an actual opinion with any weight to it. Like, "I'll say this because it's a safe stance to take and others will probably say it if I don't and I want to be the first to do it!" but not in a "I'm genuinely thinking this" kind of way. Hm. I'm pretty good with explanating things, now that I think about it.

You won't mind if I take that read with a huge shot of Fireball, will you Nacho?

With a huge shot of Fireball, you can take whatever the hell you want, honey bun <3

I also don't know what this means. I thought cryptography was against the rules...

Syryana's back?

This is the first post from Kuroko Network that feels really town...

HAHA just kidding. Gotcha, didn't I? I'm such a naughty prankster.

Kamigami's town too.
I don't see the scum benefit for outing such an info even if it was false. So i'm just going to think it's town and trust that information.

I can see this as town. It is more concrete and less fake-sounding than, for example, Kuroko Network's post. The thought processes in most of Luna's posts are ringing genuine to me, actually.

Syryana's back?

Yes I am big boi

More cryptography... Moderator, please...

You won't mind if I take that read with a huge shot of Fireball, will you Nacho?

With a huge shot of Fireball, you can take whatever the hell you want, honey bun <3

grumblegrumble

unvote;

Also, this is me reminding myself that I have a question for the pie/echo hydra but it needs to wait.

Side rant: I don't really like this "I think this but explanation needs to wait" mentality that seems rather prevalent across the site as a whole, and has also surfaced on three occasions in only four pages of the game so far...

On the other hand, this wording of this gives me very minor town feels.

You won't mind if I take that read with a huge shot of Fireball, will you Nacho?

Are you saying that you want to call me town, but you've been hurt in the past and so want to drink to lower your inhibitions?

While I normally don't endorse drinking as a way to express your feelings, in this case I say tip that shot back and join me in a big warm snuggly town hug.

big warm snuggly town hug.

Im liking this oil tycoons guy already

...lower your inhibitions?

Of course this is all I see.

The above is a series of very informative posts and I have a lot of things to say about them. Unfortunately, a shark is eating my hands and it's hard typing with my nose so I will refrain from saying these things.

Nacho, am I wrong for squinting at #42?

No. You would be quite right to squint at it. Perhaps even glaring at it could be called the right decision.

I feel like you should probably stop picking fights with fferyllt. I don't really feel that she's a bad guy and I don't really feel that your arguments with her are getting us anywhere. Please stop it. It's getting to the point of being antitown.

Further, while I do appreciate the effort you're putting in and I do quite like some of the questions you're asking, I feel that a lot of your posts could easily be condensed. You don't

need

to quote every single post in the game; people are going to want to start lynching you on principle soon or just start ignoring you altogether. Plus while you might think you're being funny, you're really not. The level of humour in your posts is almost as bad as when Oil Tycoons tries to be funny.

VC 1.4

"but it doesn't mean that you actually die, right?"
- Guybrush Threepwood, Curse of Monkey Island

Oil Tycoons

(3): Wisdom, Konowa, Tammy

Luna Fox

(1): Kuroko Network

LynxKuroneko

(1): Wall of Fire

Tammy

(1): Oil Tycoons

Konowa

(1): Fluff Central

Not Voting

(13): BRantz, Ika Zaru, AJ the Epic, Idiocy, Klingoncelt, Aneninen, ProHawk, LynxKuroneko, Perpetual Nonsense, Muki, Kamigami, Luna Fox, Medea the Alien

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline: October 2, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-10-01 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Players who have not yet confirmed have 48 hours to post before I'll search for replacements.

Again with the votecount. It's almost like you're hoping for brownie points or something. Do you think no one is going to vote you because you're being helpful? I guess it seems to be working so far but there's only so long that strategy will hold up.

So just for some mod meta real quick; here was the LAST upick; same theme same mod:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=39106

Here's the mafia role PM structure from last time, not that it was daytalk-enabled as is usual for people new to fferygames.

Welcome to Tarot uPick Mafia!

You are

The Chariot

, who represents triumph, victory hope, and sometimes fleeting success. You are a

Mafia 1-shot Strongman and 1-shot Jailkeeper

.

Abilities

- Factional Kill
- On the night of your choice, no protections will prevent your kill from taking place.
- On the night of your choice, you can target a player and prevent them from performing a night action while also protecting them from being killed.

The Mafia QT is: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/JafU5JRpKJN
GuyInFreezer is your Mafia partner.

If you would like a Fake Role PM, let me know what role and abilities you would like and I will craft one for you.

Cautionary Note

If you are lynched or night killed, be very careful what you post in the Dead QT.

Win Condition

You win when all threats to town are eliminated.

Confirm by replying to this PM with your understanding of your role and alignment.

You're being rather helpful. When are you going to start posting content, out of interest?

I honestly was dreading another post restriction from ffery.

I know what you mean...

I mean, if I had one I'd know what you mean...

Wall of fire, activate!
(Ironically, we are not actually fire. Ceph'd probably yell at me if I said which element we were, though.)

By the way this in and of itself is info you don't want out there.

I have a theory about how the elemental system works, and I think it's in our best interests to NOT give scum a road map to conditions they need to meet, even if it's a bunch of people doing this and then them playing Sudoku.

Again, it's super fun and amazing that you have all this helpful information, but when do you start playing the game?

There's a system? Huh.

Everything... Every single thing about this post... I dislike.

After so many posts without saying anything, this.

I'm almost hoping you're scum just because I've so disliked everything about the way you've entered the game.

Wall of fire, activate!
(Ironically, we are not actually fire. Ceph'd probably yell at me if I said which element we were, though.)

Think of it like videogame elemental rock paper scissors.

Oh, here's that content I was aski... Nope. Wait... Got my hopes up for nothing.

I like post 103 by Medea, im usually one to try and abuse the setup in order to create less hiding places for scum, this usually is much more easily done in Open setups tho, but i think that probably whatever theory she may be working with comes from a town mindset.

No, not really. Talking about the setup (I wouldn't call what she's saying "abusing" the setup on any level) is a relatively easy thing to do as either alignment, but especially as scum for the very point you seem to be town-reading her for.

Thou shalt not underestimate the Cabd.

Brilliant post after brilliant post. Where do you draw your inspiration from?

I was here wondering what that post meant, then i realized medea was an hydra and i thought it wasnt because the pronoun was "she".

Insert witty response later please, mod. I'm all out.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but setup-breaking (or at least gnawing on it for a while) is a very null tell for this head.


Notable examples include Fire Emblem marriage mechanic as town; paradox prime as town; this past theme (sorta) as scum; the OTHER fire emblem game as scum; and mini 1531 which gave everyone in it PTSD including the other head of this hydra; as scum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=20847


^^^
This head's main.

So yeah what nachosyr said. In fact they were on the receiving end of most of those scum games.

Normally I associate talking down town reads with a town mindset, but the circumstances under which this was done make it probably null at best and the way it comes across actually makes me feel not so great. It seems like a lot of over-elaboration for something that could have been summed up in one or two sentences, perhaps with a link.

Point taken, townread removed.

I like the bluntness with which this was said.

Talking people out of townreading me is oddly enjoyable.

Oh, and another reason I didn't like how over-elaborate it was was because others were likely to point it out, too, and you didn't really even need to "talk her out of townreading you" since, really, it was never going to last, anyway. It's unlike someone bringing up something outlandish and you talking her out of it (which is generally something I'd think of as town).

Cabd's playing well if scum.
I would rather talk to penguin though because penguin!!!

No offense Cabd

I don't think he's playing particularly well as either alignment. What do you think he's done well, if scum?

Unfortunately that's not as viable

Spoiler: IRL Shit, people who don't care can skip

She had a knee blowout tonight and is sort of in incredible amounts of pain, so posting will be limited and likely venty; direct questions can be relayed through me if need be. If she's feeling better she'll hop back in but no major promises.

My condolences.

Unfortunately that's not as viable

Spoiler: IRL Shit, people who don't care can skip

She had a knee blowout tonight and is sort of in incredible amounts of pain, so posting will be limited and likely venty; direct questions can be relayed through me if need be. If she's feeling better she'll hop back in but no major promises.

Tell her I hope she feels better!

Also, I'm treating you like a live snake until further notice, Cabd.

Oh?

Have it your way.

I'll be over here proud of ceph's post.

Oh?

Have it your way.

Nacho likes you.

I'm still a bitter, salty bastard.

Not my fault games I touch turn into PTSD-causing nightmare hellscapes.

It generally is, actually.

This is a series of posts I do not regret reading...

o/, just checking in.

Awesome!

Trains are good for business.

VOTE: Oil Tycoons

VOTE: oil tycoons

choo choo

I'm gonna go have a few drinks!

TAMMY DRUNK DANCE WITH ME LATER

TIPSY TAMMY REPORTING FOR DUTY. WHAT DANCE WOULD YOU LIKE?

Neither do I regret reading this.

(fire is bad for business)

does it burn burn burn?

So, no response to this? The fire thing must not have meant what I thought it did.

This probably has some meaning to it with regards to Tammy's alignment but I care not to read into it too much at the moment.

Hiya tammy, it's been a while since we played together last~

This is a really town post.

Not really, but I thought I'd say that because it beats pointing out the lack of content for the nth time!

As far as serious reads go, Konowa is my only town read. I like the way he approached the situation with mastin, particularly the "he's probably voting me because I failed to disarm him" line; it's a pretty self-aware/cheeky statement for scum to come up with right off the bat.

I'm excited because Tammy's first post didn't seem particularly town; I acknowledge that this probably doesn't mean anything, but I've been waiting for Too Many Heads revenge for a long long time and usually she dashes my hopes after her first post, so I'm gonna be over here dreaming of Tammy-scum if the rest of you don't mind

Vote: Tammy

Sorry to dash all your dreams and hopes bb, but this STILL is not the game.

Also, if you did not understand my first post it's because it was not meant for you. I thought the fire is bad for business might have been a clue but it apparently was not, so.

You can keep your vote on me though. I'll just be over here pointing and laughing. You're cute when you're wrong

Hm. I don't feel particularly good about the tons of this response. I mean, there's nothing damning here, it's just not a particularly good response in any way. It feels a lot like putting on airs, I suppose. Not in a good way.

Anyway, that's page five done.

I will read pages six through ten tomorrow.

I expect I should be caught up in approximately... never.

I think the points you're making about Medea make sense. I think some of the points you're making about others are sensible but it's far too early to come to conclusions about them based off the posts in the first five pages. That said, I appreciate the analysis.

Out of interest, what bad are you envisioning coming from the claiming of attributes? What's going to happen if I claim fire?

Well, for example, let's say scum has a conditional role that does ~bad things~ only to a role with an alignment of fire or water. Now you've painted a giant target that says "hey scum your super OP action that is balanced by not being easy to hit on the right target? Put it here for the win"

I sincerely doubt anything like that really exists. I imagine there are roles (perhaps both town and bad guy roles) that affect people based on elements, but I sincerely doubt that bad guys have anything in their hands that would break the game if they either knew or guessed elements correctly. I am basing this mostly around the fact that if that were to happen, it would be extremely bad moderating, both for the lack of warning (which would be compounded further if no one were to suggest not element-claiming - and yes, you could argue it's common sense not to but common sense is rare in games of mafia) and for the sheer swinginess of such a role existing and happening to guess things correctly more than once.

Bad guys probably do have something decent in terms of power that could affect elements, but I do not think it's something that would outright win them the game (except maybe under certain conditions where town is already close to losing).

Again, it's super fun and amazing that you have all this helpful information, but when do you start playing the game?

This is how I ~play~ themes with complex mechanics D1.

What? Zero hunting of bad guys for an entire day phase? When the mechanics are not even that complex? Or at least, are not so complex that it requires an entire day phase of talking about them?

Spoiler: @Tammy

Hey Tammy, this is Echo, and I'm sorry if you felt offended by the post I had made. You're probably reading this in the morning after a night's rest so I hope you feel more sober and rational now. It was late, you were under the influence of alcohol, judgment was impaired, and things escalated quickly. It's okay. I was just poking you because of your comment about Nacho's illiteracy and interpretation skills, so I posted this #286, but you didn't respond, so I chose a better opportunity to get your attention. It did, however on hindsight it was in bad taste, especially when you already displayed signs of not reading carefully and was inebriated, which made you overly sensitive. I thought that you would be able to take a hint of badassery and dish a good one back in return, but instead you got the wrong idea. I'm sorry about that. You even thought that I was elusive, which was actually kind of funny but tensed everything up. I tried to diffuse the tension in #306 and I hope you can see my efforts here to salvage a bad joke but once you called me scum and an asshat, it was clear to me that you should calm down. Nacho also noticed you and tried to engage you with logical arguments, but you handwaved them all despite being perfectly valid. At that point, I told you to go to bed. I did the gracious thing (and the healthier one for the gamestate) which was to leave the conversation and not stoke the fire in a heated argument. Tammy, you're a great person which is why everyone wants to hydra with you, so please stop taking things the wrong way. Try to assume the good in everyone before lashing out at them, to avoid misunderstanding. It hurts people. It hurt me.

All that aside, I would argue that people actually "attacking you" like that would be a towntell, not a scumtell. Considering that I asked you to hydra, it suggests that I knew you -- it stands to reason that the optimal scum strategy (when scum know you're town) is to buddy and be nice to you. Furthermore, it is well known on the site that you are skilled at obv-towning quickly; antagonizing you while knowing that you're town would be a serious mistake. I don't think any legitimate scum would do that. I don't know if you're town or scum (although you are leaning town to me), so even if I did "attack you" that way (which I didn't do intentionally, if it did), you should be townreading me for it, not the other way round. I'm not too concerned about this, however, as both pieguyn and myself are also fairly good at obv-towning.

Anyway, let's keep this a happy game so that we can all work together to catch the scum. Arguments like this give scum room to hide.

Truce?

I thought this post looked a little town until I saw the gif and it made me think you're secretly an axe-murderer. I don't ever want to meet you in a dark alley.

You know she obvtowns as town yet you're not sure if she's town or scum?

I don't really see a contradiction here. Thinking someone can be obviously town does not imply they will be from their first post/s.

Was that meant to be for you to read?

Oh. I read it and it wasn't for me to read. I'd apologise but I'm not really sorry. Actually, I am sorry, but only sorry that I wasn't a minute reading it when it really wasn't that interesting. I do think it looked a little bit town but I still feel like you owe me a minute of my life back. You owe me my spare time back.

that didn't answer my question

That's very astute of you.

You mean the single post I made. It was a roundabout copycat way of saying your being unusually friendly with people of unknown alignment (like strangers) makes me suspicious and wary of townreading you. Like. When you try to calm some of the escalating arguments by being sort of like a mediator, without taking any clear sides concerning suspicion.

I didn't take any sides because at that point my priority was to return the environment to something happy and fun for everyone and I felt Tammy was being a bit mad towards Kuroko. This was also furthered because I had a townread on both.

Why do you suspect Fluff Central

Reason specified here:

I don't see why one has to prod you for this kind of info instead of you just outing your thoughts.

Also when Kuruko mentioned:

I don't like the attempt at discrediting town reads on Kamikagami

I remembered this:

Because you never see scum claim role info this early in the game, right?

Why you make this comment to Kurobo who just stated a townread and not me who actually specified this as the reason for the townread?

Because she just hydra'd with me where I claimed role information in my first post of the game totally off the cuff?

As for your last question:

and who else do you suspect?

Here's the answer:

I'm more or less here, except i have some suspicion on fluff.
I normally have an easier time getting townreads anyway so im not too worried about not having any solid scumreads yet.

In case you can't infer it from that post, i currently have suspicion on Fluff and not scumreading anyone else.

Ugh... A quote wall. I hate reading these.

Um I'm just going to pretend I skimmed it and call it town or something. I think I can probably correctly assume that anyone who quote walls has nothing interesting to say anyway.

I take it from the "echo" signature here that the previous posts were the other part of that hydra? How are the two of you communicating in this game, out of interest? And/or how are the two of you planning to decide where your vote falls?

Correct. We have a hydra PT. We do not plan to decide where our vote falls, only scum do that.

Why, if Luna were lying, would that entail Luna is a bad guy wanting to keep that information hidden as opposed to a good guy?

By obscuring the fact that Luna is more experienced that she admits to be, she leads other players to underestimate her, which has more scum utility than town utility. One of the main objectives of being scum is to mislead. Misleading others about something as minor/non-personal such as experience level may suggest traits of a compulsive liar (bad for town) or a devilish bad guy (bad for town).

Well, I suppose it's entirely possible that every liar in the world has access to the Luna Fox account, but if you're going to call bullshit, I'm going to humbly request that you provide some sort of evidence to back up this assertion.

Are you her lawyer? Otherwise, how will providing evidence to prove my point further advance your win condition?

btw Echo Echo asked me to hydra as well, but I refused. I'm pretty sure I know who he is, too.

You suck.

If you have a genuine post restriction that says you have to comment on the game, boy I feel bad for you.


If you're just doing this for shits and giggles and because you have LITERALLY NOTHING BETTER TO DO. I suggest you stop because I scream.

--- sincerely,
Someone who has only skimmed the game.

You rock.

Suggesting that only bad guys discuss where their vote should be before voting as a hydra is an interesting stance to take and one I wouldn't mind seeing defended, actually. Though I imagine it's probably more of a discussion for Mafia Discussion than for this game.

I don't think people wanting to keep their experience hidden if they're on an alt account is indicative of anything, really. People may have a variety of reasons for doing things and they aren't necessarily tied in to alignment. It certainly wouldn't be the first time I've seen someone maintain that they're not an alt when they are one and actually town. She could also just not be an alt. Or maybe I'm defending her really hard because she's my alt. Who knows?

And yes, while I was trying to keep it hidden, I am both her alt and her lawyer. You gotta make a living somehow, you know?

However i don't like Kuroko's reponse to Wisdom on 387

It was not a great response, true. But again, this wouldn't be the first time I've seen someone get upset about others reading posts not directed at them and it having nothing to do with their alignment.

There's a reason why it's spoilered. I don't like people reading my private messages.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I feel the best way to get someone not to read your private messages is to hide them buried deep in long wall posts that NOBODY will ever read. That's why no one is ever going to know that I'm breaking site rules by posting on this account AND Luna Fox in the same game.

Luna Fox, do you have a read on Wisdom yet?

Wisdom has posted all of what? 5 times so far? And none of those posts are particularly interesting one way or another. I would be surprised if anyone had formed anything more than a "meh" read on Wisdom at this point in time.

Why would you put a read on Tammy on a hidden message instead of sharing it with everyone?
I understand the notion of the apology, i don't understand why it has to be hidden.

Maybe Kuroko is shy?

Luna Fox, do you have a read on Wisdom yet?

Not really, at best i'd say about 10% towards towny.

Really? Why?

For the record, I'm scumreading him. I dislike how his reads are lacking in reasoning, specifically his scumread on my slot which appears to be slipping a vote on the player of the day, while not providing an inkling of a scumread or any indication of his thought process.

I don't really think that makes him a bad guy. I just think that makes him not very helpful.

I suppose he could be a bad guy as well as being not very helpful but I don't think he's alone in lacking explanations for reads given and I don't think it really means anything anyway.

There's a reason why it's spoilered. I don't like people reading my private messages.

You're still not answering my question. If you are aware that Tammy obvtowns, shouldn't you be seeing she is obvious town here? Why the "I don't know if you are town or scum" part?

I don't really think this is a great question unless your sole goal is aiming for a particular reaction.

VOTE: kuroko

btw Echo Echo asked me to hydra as well, but I refused. I'm pretty sure I know who he is, too.

This seems like a very lazy attempt to slip on a vote on whom he thinks is the largest wagon -- he might not be aware that there is only one vote on me.

I'd expect town to at least say "Oh, and Kuroko is scum", or "I agree with Tammy's points" before making that vote. However, his subsequent statement does not have any link whatsoever to any reasoning for his vote.

Also, I doubt he knows who I am.

I don't see why town is more likely to say either of those things; if anything, those statements are ones I'd assume are more likely to come from a bad guy who feels an unnecessary need to justify themself.

I don't feel the lack of justification is anything other than a lack of justification. It is what it is and nothing more. Maybe if it continues to be a trend, you'd have more of a point, but as far as entrance posts go, no, not really.

Then why don't you just simply ask?
Also ftr the only reason i'd have to believe Wisdom of being town is his response towards your read on Tammy, imo everything he's posted is null since unexplained reads can be done by anyone.

This is true.

On to page seventeen shortly.

PS: I cannot wait until I get to whatever page this lands on (if I get there, I imagine I'm prime vig material at the moment).

[Luna Fox]

I think I can probably correctly assume that anyone who quote walls has nothing interesting to say anyway.

[zMuffinMan]

There's a reason why it's spoilered. I don't like people reading my private messages.

You're still not answering my question. If you are aware that Tammy obvtowns, shouldn't you be seeing she is obvious town here? Why the "I don't know if you are town or scum" part?

That's not mutually exclusive. She hasn't obvtowned yet.

What were you specifically trying to understand with your question?

This isn't a bad question to ask, actually.

Also, when you say Tammy hasn't 'obvtowned' yet, do you mean you don't have a town read on her, you have a scum read on her or you think she looks town but not 'obvtown'?

I'd expect town to at least say "Oh, and Kuroko is scum", or "I agree with Tammy's points" before making that vote. However, his subsequent statement does not have any link whatsoever to any reasoning for his vote.

Oh ok, that makes sense.
Still you could've asked tho...

True, but asking questions is for dumb people. Didn't they ever teach you that in school?

Bins is here at last and has about an hour!


Engage her!

But I hardly know you. Surely it's far too early to get engaged.

Bins is here at last and has about an hour!


Engage her!

How about some reads?
Do you agree with my vote on you and reasons?
Do you agree with kuruko's vote and reasons?

I don't really know what you were hoping to achieve by asking that second question, seeing as there probably aren't a lot of people who would agree with votes on themselves, but I assume you meant to ask what they felt about it?

For the record, I am not particularly thrilled by Fluff Central votes at this point and I don't really think Kuroko's vote has a solid foundation, either.

As far as my own reads go, I don't have one on the majority of the player list and the ones I do have I would not call very strong.

I feel decent about it being more likely than not that you, Oil Tycoons, Konowa, Perpetual Nonsense and Kamigami are town (in no particular order of strength). I feel it's slightly less likely but still more likely than not that Fluff Central, Ika Zaru and maybe Kuroko are town. Kuroko is... one that I'm tossing around in my head for a couple of reasons at the moment. Ika zaru is something I probably wouldn't be able to back up very well if asked to justify it.

Most of the rest of the game I don't feel one way or another about yet. I really do not like the way Tammy has approached the game so far, I am worried by Medea's complete lack of content despite multiple posts and I haven't really liked anything Wall of Fire has written so far. Outside of them, I have very minor pings from some opening posts but nothing substantial enough that I could say I've formed a read yet.

Then why don't you just simply ask?
Also ftr the only reason i'd have to believe Wisdom of being town is his response towards your read on Tammy, imo everything he's posted is null since unexplained reads can be done by anyone.

His mistake has been made, and scum slips are by definition, done unwittingly.

We catch players' mistakes upon them committing it, not by rectifying it later.

You and I both know that Wisdom, if scum, is able to weasel out of something as simple as this.

I don't know what mistake you're referring to, but I'm going to assume it's the whole "didn't explain the vote" thing and if so then I don't find it compelling.

Bins is here at last and has about an hour!


Engage her!

How about some reads?
Do you agree with my vote on you and reasons?
Do you agree with kuruko's vote and reasons?

Uhm, I haven't really read in depth yet. I can do that now.

I obviously do not agree with you vote on me.

RESKIM TIME.

Well I didn't see that middle line coming. No, wait, I did. I guess I'm psychic.

Every single time I open a new tab incognito logs me out. This is going to be annoying.

Well tell him to stop logging you out. Surely he has better things to do with his time.

You know she obvtowns as town yet you're not sure if she's town or scum?

I know that she obvtowns as town. That's a fact. General knowledge.

I'm not sure if she's town or scum. That's information specific to this game. Information that I am not privy to. Do you know if she's town? You seem to be insinuating such a thing.

I don't really like this post. The last line in particular is just not good. In any way.

VOTE: Wisdom

Pieguy can shift the vote back to Fluff Central if she wants to, but for now I believe that I have caught scum-wisdom.

I also don't really think you've caught anything. Your arguments are silly. Extraordinarily so. To the point where I'm trying to figure out how likely it is that a bad guy would make such ridiculous points.

Then why don't you just simply ask?
Also ftr the only reason i'd have to believe Wisdom of being town is his response towards your read on Tammy, imo everything he's posted is null since unexplained reads can be done by anyone.

His mistake has been made, and scum slips are by definition, done unwittingly.

We catch players' mistakes upon them committing it, not by rectifying it later.

You and I both know that Wisdom, if scum, is able to weasel out of something as simple as this.

1) Well i tend to always speak my mind, sometimes this comes as "I think X is town" or "I think X is scum", while I usually try to accompany it with a reason, sometimes I forget to mention it, so i don't think someone not mentioning a reason cant be fixed by plain asking them, if they are scum their reasons will be fake.
2) I don't know Wisdom, unless i met him offsite? who are you?

Point (1) here is sensible. And why I don't think there's much to Kuroko's whole Wisdom push.

Bins is here at last and has about an hour!


Engage her!

Hello Bins. Welcome to the game.

Please leave your thoughts and reads on the following players:

[Tammy, Oil Tycoons, Wall of Fire, Zelink2, Luna Fox, Wisdom.]

Do ask any questions and I will do my best to answer them in a timely manner.

I would love to hear your input.

Why did you ask about this list of players in particular?

Then why don't you just simply ask?
Also ftr the only reason i'd have to believe Wisdom of being town is his response towards your read on Tammy, imo everything he's posted is null since unexplained reads can be done by anyone.

His mistake has been made, and scum slips are by definition, done unwittingly.

We catch players' mistakes upon them committing it, not by rectifying it later.

You and I both know that Wisdom, if scum, is able to weasel out of something as simple as this.

1) Well i tend to always speak my mind, sometimes this comes as "I think X is town" or "I think X is scum", while I usually try to accompany it with a reason, sometimes I forget to mention it, so i don't think someone not mentioning a reason cant be fixed by plain asking them, if they are scum their reasons will be fake.
2) I don't know Wisdom, unless i met him offsite? who are you?

*sigh*

Right. You don't know Wisdom. You don't know me, either.


Do you know the scenario where scum try to hop onto a mislynch wagon with a naked vote? A vote without reasoning? Now, Wisdom is performing this by the book, attempting to mouth a sentence about Echo to make it appear like reasoning for the vote, but upon a close read, is actually irrelevant and has no logical flow.

I think it's pretty rare, in reality, that bad guys actually try to hop on a wagon with a naked vote. I also think that naked votes are pretty standard early on in games. I think you're making a big deal out of something that isn't all that big a deal.

and you know me?

Can anyone truly know another person?

Echo.

-cho.

No, I don't know you. I've never played in a game with Wisdom before. I just looked at your most recent 5 scumgames and deduced that you were scum following your scum meta.

Describe what you think his bad guy meta is.

do I explain my reads as town?

Also, this is probably something that should be addressed if it hasn't already. I assume it has, though. Describe why his entrance here isn't like his town games.

Bins is here at last and has about an hour!


Engage her!

Hello Bins. Welcome to the game.

Please leave your thoughts and reads on the following players:

[Tammy, Oil Tycoons, Wall of Fire, Zelink2, Luna Fox, Wisdom.]

Do ask any questions and I will do my best to answer them in a timely manner.

I would love to hear your input.

cool! I'm gonna probably do my best to give input on everyone that's posted but I'll pay extra attention to those players now.

This is so formal it makes me giggly.

I feel like you got cheated. Now you have to read my posts. Even I don't want to read my posts. Bad luck.

(In case people can't follow me, the above post was obviously sarcasm.)

I mean, fuck, you say that you think you know who I am, and you ask a stupid question like that? What is that meant to accomplish?

Right now, it appears that you are asking questions to seem like you are contributing, but in actuality do not advance the gamestate at all and are just merely fluff.

Hmm. I wouldn't agree that he's asking questions to make it seem like he's contributing. The questions he's asking so far clearly have design in them and that design is clearly centred around understanding the motivation behind your actions. I also wouldn't say they are not advancing the game state, though I will say that I don't really care for the round-about way the questions are being asked when direct statements followed by direct questions makes getting to the point a lot quicker.

Bins is here at last and has about an hour!


Engage her!

Hello Bins. Welcome to the game.

Please leave your thoughts and reads on the following players:

[Tammy, Oil Tycoons, Wall of Fire, Zelink2, Luna Fox, Wisdom.]

Do ask any questions and I will do my best to answer them in a timely manner.

I would love to hear your input.

cool! I'm gonna probably do my best to give input on everyone that's posted but I'll pay extra attention to those players now.

This is so formal it makes me giggly.

As long as you're happy!

Please post a NSFW warning the next time you're going to post an explicit gif like that. Thank you in advance.

do I explain my reads as town?

Yes, you post a one liner. stating "X is scum" before placing your vote.

You do not attempt to obfuscate by posting a random statement related to the player you're voting that has no link whatsoever.

You're attempting to compensate a reason that is entirely does not make sense with your actions.

Actually, this makes a little more sense in terms of what you were saying about expecting Wisdom to do a little more than put a naked vote down but does nothing to really explain why he's more likely naked vote as a bad guy.

I am also not really a fan of weak meta arguments like this, just because they can be abused by both town and bad guys. And I say abused because I think the amount of times someone is right about something like this are pretty much equivalent to being right about someone by random chance. Though I have nothing to back up this statement other than it sounds about right.

You continue to obfuscate by pursuing a line of questioning that eventually provide little of value to the overall gamestate.

You have yet to consider the posts of players in a holistic manner and deduce their alignment.

You fail to provide reads on more players despite your self-proclaimed genius at catching scum in the early game.

In short, you're not scumhunting. Ergo, you're scum.

I don't mind aggressive stances like this, but they are also easy to make as either alignment. I am having a not-so-easy time parsing how genuine your attack is here, but I actually don't mind this sort of thing in terms of the overall state of the game. It's probably good stimulus for discussion, so I'll allow it.

this is amusing

Do you think it's coming from a bad guy?

Here is a link to Wisdom's most recent Large Theme non-ongoing scumgame.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=62167

To those of you who were following the game: Do you want this? Do you really want this?

Vote for a better tomorrow. Vote Wisdom.

What am I meant to see here?

each time you post you make it more obvious you are who i think you are

And what of it?

On to page eighteen shortly.

[ZeL1nK2]

I rarely alt-slip, too. Oh well.

[Wall of Fire]

VOTE:

Z

eL1nK2 Muffinman
>Has a scumread on me.
>Is actually zMuffinman.
>I am town.
>Therefore, is scum.

[ZeL1nK2]

Please continue to post irrelevant bullshit in response to being caught. I'll wait for the other players to follow my lead, and you shall be forced to night kill me, failing which, the rest of your team will go insane and crumble as I pick out their brains one by one.

Ah, yes, the scum team is probably extremely scared of you right now. I can tell you're a high-priority kill.

Bring your friends.

I don't really mind the stand-offishness. I could see it coming from town.

Alright, I guess we're doing this the good ol' fashioned way. Because I'm too lazy to deal with this logging out thing, I'm just gonna type this all messy and ignore format and quoting. Hueahhh. And like update it while I read further. I don't care if this doesn't make sense to you, this is for me and teachers always told me to show my work.


Tammy - entry is null. I'm definitely not townreading Tammy at this point. HOWEVER, I do like the KN read/push/questions that are very well deserved.
Oil Tycoons (hydra of Nachomamma8 and Syryana) - entry is ehhHHHhh. Overall, I feel like I'm going to give a really shit read here but I think that they

can

be scum. That's what I have.
BRantz - I don't like his reads.
Medea the Alien (hydra of penguin_alien and Cabd) - Medea is null. Nothing has necessarily struck me as town or scum.
Ika Zaru (hydra of Ika and Malakittens) - overall meh.
Fluff Central (hydra of notscience and bins) - :3 secret: I skim Notty's posts.
Wall of Fire (hydra of Cephrir and Mastin2) - my initial first impression of their posting is town. I continue to have a null town read on them.
Wisdom - I feel like there's going to be a weird part of me that wants to meta Wisdom because I respect his scum game as a player BUT I like his reads so far and he hasn't pinged me and that's enough for me. I have to reread the stuff that just happened.
Konowa - entry is null. I feel like this read can sadly go either way (I HAVE TOO MANY OF THESE, GIVE ME INTERACTIONS)
Perpetual Nonsense (Hydra of Bert and SXTLHGaiden) - The Collective's entry was fine. I like them so far.
Kuroko Network (hydra of echo echo and pieguyn) - entry is null. Meh to the nod to the Oil Tycoon town read. The FC (hey, thats us!) vote was god awful. Wait, was that pie? I honestly can't tell. I'm not sure if I can distinguish bad reasons/fake reasons yet.
ZeL1nK2 - I'm not reading his posts out of spite until I get an answer to my question.
Kamigami (hydra of Kagami and FakeGod) - Kagami's entry is town but it's nothing to bet the game on.
Luna Fox - hahahHAHAEH AEH. I'm sorry. Lost my cool. Probably town. Meh, Oil Tycoon "town" read. But if Tammy is scum, then Luna is town. And ALSO, I sort of like the whole "I like this person for _____" and blah, but that pretty much solidifies in my mind that they are definitely an alt. I'm going to leave it at that though because I really, really don't care.

people who haven't posted/haven't posted enough for me to gage a read.
Klingoncelt
Aneninen - z 1 post.
LynxKuroneko - meh.
AJ the Epic
Muki- zz. one post.
ProHawk
Idiocy (hydra of Tiershift and farside22)

Which of Tammy's questions do you like? What don't you like about the way Oil Tycoons is playing? I agree on Brantz. I agree on Medea kind of, though I am bothered by the lack of anything more than you seem to be. I don't particularly have any qualms with the Ika Zaru read. What do you like about Wall of Fire? Gun to my crotch, I'd call Wisdom town, but I honestly don't feel strongly one way or another right now. I can see Konowa being null; I'm leaning town on him, though. Kind of agree about Perpetual Nonsense. I agree about the reasoning thing re:Kuroko. I am not reading ZeL1nK2's posts either. Agreed on Kamigami. Agreed on Luna Fox.

I agree with most of these, basically.

oh, it's so ugly!

Luckily the avatar is cute.

Okay going to take a few steps back.

I disagree about the avatar being cute but I don't feel it was a malicious lie so I am not going to impose LAL.

All you have to say about my slot is that my entrance is meh and I could be scum?

Bins? Don't do this to me.

Probably the one read I am not overly hyped about. What do you think of the rest of it?

Bins is here at last and has about an hour!


Engage her!

How about some reads?
Do you agree with my vote on you and reasons?
Do you agree with kuruko's vote and reasons?

Sooo...

2) No. I don't think people need to wear their reads on the palm of their hand. Honestly, I find it sort of odd that you're literally calling out your opinion of everyone. It makes me think that you're town, but it's more out of place than someone having to be asked for reads before giving them. I mean, singling out Notty for that is wrong, many other players in this game are guilty of it. And it's null. Scum can make readlists early and town can keep their mouth shut. Play style, maaaan. Especially in this playerlist, I don't think it's out of place at all.

I feel weird answering this question.

3) Definitely not. And it's 100x scummier than your vote. It looks like he's trying to grasp on to justifications.

I am OK with this response.

All you have to say about my slot is that my entrance is meh and I could be scum?

Bins? Don't do this to me.

Sorry,

I really don't know how to approach a read on you and notty isn't being helpful at all.

I also don't mind this explanation.

Because I can't really be like "just pretend they aren't someone you've played with before", because that isn't 100% true. There's this weird influence in my head (actually, that little voice might be notty pestering me on Facebook) that I need to actually interact with you to get a read. Because I keep telling myself "yeah, that post is towny but I mean they could still be scum."

I am OK with this response, too, I guess. Even though I think it's a bit more likely Oil Tycoons is town than a bad guy.

wanna know a secret tho?

notty thinks you're town. i actually don't know if that's a secret because i haven't been reading his posts.

oh god I've made to many posts NOTTY IS GOING TO POLICY LYNCH ME.

pedit - actually don't kill me but none of your posts have really pinged me. Though, yes, I do have doubts. Paranoia, actually. Who am I taking to? I'm pretty paranoid of Nacho. Usually there's one player in a game that I have really, really unnerving paranoia about. In this playerlist it was going to be either mastin/ceph, wisdom, or Nacho.

wanna know a secret tho?

notty thinks you're town. i actually don't know if that's a secret because i haven't been reading his posts.

oh god I've made to many posts NOTTY IS GOING TO POLICY LYNCH ME.

pedit - actually don't kill me but none of your posts have really pinged me. Though, yes, I do have doubts. Paranoia, actually. Who am I taking to? I'm pretty paranoid of Nacho. Usually there's one player in a game that I have really, really unnerving paranoia about. In this playerlist it was going to be either mastin/ceph, wisdom, or Nacho.

wanna know a secret tho?

notty thinks you're town. i actually don't know if that's a secret because i haven't been reading his posts.

oh god I've made to many posts NOTTY IS GOING TO POLICY LYNCH ME.

pedit - actually don't kill me but none of your posts have really pinged me. Though, yes, I do have doubts. Paranoia, actually. Who am I taking to? I'm pretty paranoid of Nacho. Usually there's one player in a game that I have really, really unnerving paranoia about. In this playerlist it was going to be either mastin/ceph, wisdom, or Nacho.

idk why I double posted SOS


dammit why isn't our hydra acc mafBlack

I like this post(s). This post(s) seems town enough.

1) Good luck getting us lynched because I'm sure as fuck not going to artificially deflate my post when it's fun to post and I'm in the greatest hydra on both side of the Mississippi.

As I suppose this is nacho, what has changed between the time you felt like posting a lot as ghatokaca was harmful in Poe upick and now?

Yep, kagami-head is doing the posting for Day 1.

Keima-anime is excellent. I hope you watched the goddess arc, which is brilliant.

I think OT, PN, and KN are town. What do you think?

I've only seen season one.

OT maybe but their vote is one me so gaffaw.

PN didn't make much of an impression.

Not sure on Konowa.

It's pretty early yet, I really don't have many reads at all. Maaaaaaaaaaaybe a medea town read, but I think I have markers for both of their town games now, so!

I like this as it is the first player disagreeing with the common OT townread, which I feel is very much undeserved after the first few pages.

Not townreading Medea.

I felt the same thing when I read his first string of posts. I feel that cabd's string of posts looks pretty town at first sight, so I'm calling you town for same thought process as me for now.

I don't really see how Tammy was disagreeing with the Oil Tycoons town read there.

I don't really understand what that last line means.

wanna know a secret tho?

notty thinks you're town. i actually don't know if that's a secret because i haven't been reading his posts.

oh god I've made to many posts NOTTY IS GOING TO POLICY LYNCH ME.

pedit - actually don't kill me but none of your posts have really pinged me. Though, yes, I do have doubts. Paranoia, actually. Who am I taking to? I'm pretty paranoid of Nacho. Usually there's one player in a game that I have really, really unnerving paranoia about. In this playerlist it was going to be either mastin/ceph, wisdom, or Nacho.

Awww! Notty does like me! ^.^

The read of "hey I like some posts he's made this game but I'm still very skeptical despite nothing pinging" is a read that is much easier to parse than "he could be scum".

I also like you. #NotBuddying

#MaybeLying

As I suppose this is nacho, what has changed between the time you felt like posting a lot as ghatokaca was harmful in Poe upick and now?

That was F-16.
We were also lying scum, we just wanted to lurk that game.

I was going to call this post town, but then I thought it might be too obvious that I'm buddying, so I'm going to call it null to change things up a little.

I don't think he's playing particularly well as either alignment. What do you think he's done well, if scum?

I think that the way he handled the Luna situation was pretty smooth if he's scum, but my reasoning there is pretty advanced and I don't think I'm going to waste my time explaining it to a 2015

That's not mutually exclusive. She hasn't obvtowned yet.

She has.

I think discriminating against me because I joined in 2015 is not cool and it's players like you who are making this site worse.

I also don't really think anything Medea wrote is particularly hard to write as a bad guy.

Spoiler: @Tammy

Hey Tammy, this is Echo, and I'm sorry if you felt offended by the post I had made. You're probably reading this in the morning after a night's rest so I hope you feel more sober and rational now. It was late, you were under the influence of alcohol, judgment was impaired, and things escalated quickly. It's okay. I was just poking you because of your comment about Nacho's illiteracy and interpretation skills, so I posted this #286, but you didn't respond, so I chose a better opportunity to get your attention. It did, however on hindsight it was in bad taste, especially when you already displayed signs of not reading carefully and was inebriated, which made you overly sensitive. I thought that you would be able to take a hint of badassery and dish a good one back in return, but instead you got the wrong idea. I'm sorry about that. You even thought that I was elusive, which was actually kind of funny but tensed everything up. I tried to diffuse the tension in #306 and I hope you can see my efforts here to salvage a bad joke but once you called me scum and an asshat, it was clear to me that you should calm down. Nacho also noticed you and tried to engage you with logical arguments, but you handwaved them all despite being perfectly valid. At that point, I told you to go to bed. I did the gracious thing (and the healthier one for the gamestate) which was to leave the conversation and not stoke the fire in a heated argument. Tammy, you're a great person which is why everyone wants to hydra with you, so please stop taking things the wrong way. Try to assume the good in everyone before lashing out at them, to avoid misunderstanding. It hurts people. It hurt me.

All that aside, I would argue that people actually "attacking you" like that would be a towntell, not a scumtell. Considering that I asked you to hydra, it suggests that I knew you -- it stands to reason that the optimal scum strategy (when scum know you're town) is to buddy and be nice to you. Furthermore, it is well known on the site that you are skilled at obv-towning quickly; antagonizing you while knowing that you're town would be a serious mistake. I don't think any legitimate scum would do that. I don't know if you're town or scum (although you are leaning town to me), so even if I did "attack you" that way (which I didn't do intentionally, if it did), you should be townreading me for it, not the other way round. I'm not too concerned about this, however, as both pieguyn and myself are also fairly good at obv-towning.

Anyway, let's keep this a happy game so that we can all work together to catch the scum. Arguments like this give scum room to hide.

Truce?

This post feels too apologetic and I think the "we are town together let's go catch the scum" is overdone

VOTE: kuroko

btw Echo Echo asked me to hydra as well, but I refused. I'm pretty sure I know who he is, too.

This seems like a very lazy attempt to slip on a vote on whom he thinks is the largest wagon -- he might not be aware that there is only one vote on me.

I'd expect town to at least say "Oh, and Kuroko is scum", or "I agree with Tammy's points" before making that vote. However, his subsequent statement does not have any link whatsoever to any reasoning for his vote.

Also, I doubt he knows who I am.

Ok, so, you think wisdom has no idea what the biggest wagon is?

As I suppose this is nacho, what has changed between the time you felt like posting a lot as ghatokaca was harmful in Poe upick and now?

That was F-16.
We were also lying scum, we just wanted to lurk that game.

When I read your post I got the feeling that you were completely opposing your previous (scum) views so people who'd seen you as ghato would think you were town. Do you remember having the viewpoint you have in this game regarding posting a lot before and can you maybe show quotes of you sharing this viewpoint?

Wis, why did you share your townread of tammy?

I disagree that Kuroko's post feels "too" apologetic. It seems like a fairly standard reach-out. I suppose you could argue it's a bad guy doing it, but I don't feel it's overdone.

I also don't think there's a lot of merit to exploring the whole "this theory point is different to what I think he's written in the past" even if it were true that he said something contrary in the past. Why is this a sticking point for you over literally anything else they've done?

why wouldnt i?

Is this like a zen question?

When I read your post I got the feeling that you were completely opposing your previous (scum) views so people who'd seen you as ghato would think you were town. Do you remember having the viewpoint you have in this game regarding posting a lot before and can you maybe show quotes of you sharing this viewpoint?

I have more posts than anyone else on site.
I post a lot.

I don't think that's something you should be proud of.

No, don't go counter-question me. I don't think tammy was townread at that point, so you obviously decided to add some new viewpoint. But I don't understand why, which is why I'm asking. Has she been obvtowning, you feel?

Have you never seen someone express town reads before or something? Why is Wisdom's town read odd compared to, like, any other unexplained town read? He's not even the first person to express a town read on her. Why gloss over Brantz's entrance, for example?

I keep having issues with the site today orz

I know, just before it made me post on an account that I have no relation to. Now people are going to assume I'm an alt or something. Dang site.

i dont know if she was townread or not, i felt she was town and said so

I would like to know what about her early posts you felt was town.

god you're annoying but I really do not want to lynch you

^why not?

Echoing 448

This is a game with a fuckton of hydra, so we all need to be considerate of our postcounts. Please please please try to keep them under control, if someone's posting gets over the top out of control they need to be purged

Notscience:

1) Good luck getting us lynched because I'm sure as fuck not going to artificially deflate my post when it's fun to post and I'm in the greatest hydra on both side of the Mississippi.

2) If you're serious about changing the spam meta, the important things to cut down on are more objective than postcount. I've never understood why it is difficult to scroll past a string of 5 posts of someone having fun. In my opinion, it's the protracted arguments where people say the same thing over and over again instead of looking and comprehending another player's argument that provide damage to game state and the way you change that is by playing with extra care and consideration, not by threatening to policy lynch people who don't play the way you want them to.

-Grandpa Oil

Cabd's playing well if scum.
I would rather talk to penguin though because penguin!!!

No offense Cabd

Unfortunately that's not as viable

Spoiler: IRL Shit, people who don't care can skip

She had a knee blowout tonight and is sort of in incredible amounts of pain, so posting will be limited and likely venty; direct questions can be relayed through me if need be. If she's feeling better she'll hop back in but no major promises.

Tell her I hope she feels better!

Also, I'm treating you like a live snake until further notice, Cabd.

what do you think?

I think you should probably stop posting massive quotes. It gets tiring to scroll down past all of them to see one or two lines of text.

On to page nineteen shortly.

[Kuroko Network]

MOTHERF**KER

[Kuroko Network]

THE SECRET IS OUT

[ZeL1nK2]

what do you think?

?

A very good question, and I will assume Idiocy is a bad guy if they don't address this, post haste.

TAMMY I WENT TO BED BEFORE YOU CAME BACK I'M SO SORRY

You should be sorry. Only bad guys sleep.

Also I agree with fluff that the reasoning for my vote may be a playstyle issue and as such i'll reconsider my stance

Unvote

I do want fluff to get back to kuroko about the kamigami thing however.

I don't think the Kamigami thing is all that interesting, actually.

Mobilepost, so no quotes or whatsoever.
I've just chevked the game quickly.

Quick impressions.

Kagaminette and Luna are very town.

These look town: Ika, Kuroko, Walloffire,
Don't know list: Oil, Konowa, Lynx, Perpetual Notscience
These look scummy: Wisdom, Medea, Zelnick.
Fluff and Tammy are the scummiest. Tammy because of being very different.

This post has been more or less a self reminder.

Also, maybe we could talk about our cards, couldn't we? Acvording to Fferyllt our picks are independent from our alignment. What do you all think?

Mobilepost, so no quotes or whatsoever.
I've just chevked the game quickly.

Quick impressions.

Kagaminette and Luna are very town.

These look town: Ika, Kuroko, Walloffire,
Don't know list: Oil, Konowa, Lynx, Perpetual Notscience
These look scummy: Wisdom, Medea, Zelnick.
Fluff and Tammy are the scummiest. Tammy because of being very different.

This post has been more or less a self reminder.

Also, maybe we could talk about our cards, couldn't we? Acvording to Fferyllt our picks are independent from our alignment. What do you all think?

I don't really like this post(s). The reads list just looks incredibly manufactured. I think mostly because of how fragmented it is in comparison to basically anything I'm currently thinking but also because the reads just look like he chucked a bunch of people in places because why not?

I think the last line is pretty silly all round.

Also it's really annoying to play when the site keeps being slow, and times out at sometimes, i'll get back to this later.

This post was clearly made by a bad guy. Only bad guys blame obvious lurking on the site timing out.

Tammy because of being very different.

different to what?

Eh. For me, personally, I don't feel Tammy's approach to Oil Tycoons, especially the complete over-reaction to posts that didn't say anything like she was suggesting they were saying, didn't feel like how I think she'd approach Oil Tycoons as town. I also do genuinely think that a lot of her early posts felt flat in comparison to what I would expect from her as town and I think the way she tried to shrug off the vote on her early felt like an act and not a very good one. I also do not like the way she's approached forming any of her reads thus far.

To the town Tammy I've seen before.

Also, sorry for the double. Rubbish mobile.

What is different, in your opinion?

Also, maybe we could talk about our cards, couldn't we? Acvording to Fferyllt our picks are independent from our alignment. What do you all think?

Before i go, i'd like to say that i heavily disagree with this for now, specially if what medea said about the elements is true, it may be possible that scum may infer our roles or elements by these claims.

Fun fact: I timed out 3 times trying to post this orz im just gonna come back later

I don't think it's wise to openly discuss cards and elements, but I don't think anything super-awful is likely to result from someone claiming their element. That said, I agree with Medea that it is unnecessary information to reveal unless there's a reason to do so.

Ok. That was just an idea.

Well your idea could be likened to the waste that excretes from a horse's behind.

How is she different than town-tammy?

Oh, and I also do really not like the whole "echo asked me to hydra and then insulted me therefore is a bad guy" thing because of how robotic the whole thing felt. I really do think this was just something she was doing because she was trying to play to an idea that people have of her (i.e. that she reads people who attack her as bad guys) but without the sort of depth that you'd expect a genuine read to have.

also guys make your alts less obvious

i thought i was wrong in my initial prediction of who luna is, but i'm most likely right again

Yeah, nobody is ever going to suspect I'm a Quilford alt if I don't alt-slip, but I'm pretty good with this alt stuff.

Hey Anin. Come back when you're not mobile posting. Got some semi-involved questions to ask ya.

What do you think of Aneneinein so far?

As for now, it's not a concern; I don't think the reasons actually exist that make the Lynx wagon a good one and don't think the majority of the town will follow and so Cephrir will eventually be forced to abandon or explain

(I'm constantly amazed by how much more effective my yelling about various things is so differentially effective depending on the personality I'm emitting)

This seems like a legitimately scummy video to post, to be perfectly honest.

also guys make your alts less obvious

i thought i was wrong in my initial prediction of who luna is, but i'm most likely right again

Not obvious to me. Is Luna someone who would give me reason to question my townread on the slot?

Is your town read based on the assumption that she's inexperienced (and/or unaccustomed to MS)?

nah, she's town

Agreed.

Btw, it's surprisingly difficult to associate your new avatar with you.

When I read Wisdom's posts, that is actually what I imagine Wisdom looks like IRL so I find it surprisingly easy.

i know, that stands for any non-L avatar I would have

This conversation is really interesting and full of game-relevant content and I'm super glad to be reading through it.

This is a particularly bizarre deviation.

I have a 5 person townpile atm, waiting for FG to sign off on a new entry, where are you sitting?

I thoroughly dislike the whole "I have super secret reads and I'm not telling anyone" philosophy that some people have. I don't find it at all helpful to the game state. It's almost as toxic to a game as wall posters, to be honest.

same as before. Tammy, Luna, Nacho. I have a few more that are leaning town but im waiting to see more

I'm also slightly less miffed but still not overly enthusiastic about the whole "I have reads I'm not going to share because I'm waiting for them to develop more" philosophy. But I'm probably being hypocritical because maybe I've said something like that in the past (probably as a bad guy, though).

I approve of Ceph's product and/or service, there's that.

Well this is disappointing as all hell.

Perhaps it is related to understanding the product!

[not caught up]

Hello Pie! And Fire is Mastina/Ceph. Ceph...will be disappointed that WE shall become quieter in the morn

when you're right you're right

I am so underwhelmed every time you post.

Nacho - I’m sorry I got pissy with you last night. You thought I was mad and had a mad read and you didn’t want that coloring my view of the game. Thank you for that. I really wasn’t mad though, and you couldn't know that my suspicion of them had been piqued before that. I realize I didn't say this at the time, though I think I explained it a bit last night, but my suspicion regarding that stemmed from what looked like soft-buddying of you more than it was me being offended.

Notty - A couple things. You asked me last night when I voted you why I voted you without pushing you even though I had been grilling OT. You didn’t answer my question where I was grilling OT. Also did you really not realize why I voted you? I think it was obviously a joke vote since you claimed scum and I thanked you for the scum claim. Your response on that is weird. Also, do you really have a town read on Nacho? You? This early???

Kurecho - I did respond to 286, but I really don’t understand why you asked it in the first place. It felt like a throwaway question and one designed to kind of buddy Nacho. Being illiterate has nothing to do with not interpreting a typographical error anymore than my age has to do with me using the word “guffaw”. He was trolling me and I joked back in response; I think that is pretty clear if you’re following the conversation. I think if you’re scum that Nacho is someone you would want on your good side, so that’s what it felt like you were doing there.

Yes, I have a reputation for obvtowning, though I’d argue that over the past year that’s gotten a bit spotty, but that doesn’t mean that scum don’t attack me. I’m also easy to distract and sometimes get emotional which makes it easy to discredit my thoughts at times. I try to do better but I suck at it sometimes.

I’ve had scum attack me lots of times. Scum have tunneled on me because they think it makes them look town. Scum have used fake paranoia on me. Scum have soft-pushed me. Scum have attacked me for weird ass reasons. Scum have attacked me simply because it gave them something to do. In Tales of Vesperia, the entire scum team attacked me day one. So, no it’s not a town tell to attack me, especially when I think the “attack” stemmed from you trying to show Nacho you were on his side.

(I’m not sure if there’s anything else I wanted to respond to in this. The site’s down, so when I get a chance to reread over what I read this morning, I’ll get to it then.)

Syryana - IT’S OKAY! We can dance later, but I will be sober!

Bins - Do you typically do reads lists on the entire player list within the first 24 hours of a large?

Anen - I’ll echo wisdom’s question. What about me is very different? Also, if I’m the scummiest person according to you, why aren’t you voting me?

What soft buddying are you referring to with regards to Kuroko Network? Out of interest, when (or how often) have you caught a bad guy by noticing "buddying"? Or rather, when (or how often) do you suspect people are bad guys for something that looks like "buddying"? I know I could look this up myself, but I'm still interested in whether you can answer this.

I don't really like the way the questions at the end of the Noddy paragraph are phrased.

I'm also wondering why you're not voting anyone (especially if you feel so strongly about Kuroko Network) and why you're questioning someone else about their lack of vote. (I am fully aware of my own lack of vote and how this might sound hypocritical but you're not 30 pages behind).

VC 1.15

Kuroko Network

(3): Perpetual Nonsense, Oil Tycoons, Wisdom

Wisdom

(2): Medea the Alien, Kuroko Network

LynxKuroneko

(1): Wall of Fire

ZeL1nK2

(1): Konowa

Konowa

(1): Fluff Central

Klingoncelt

(1): Aneninen

Not Voting

(12): BRantz, Ika Zaru, AJ the Epic, Idiocy, ProHawk, LynxKuroneko, Tammy, ZeL1nK2, Klingoncelt, Muki, Kamigami, Luna Fox

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline: October 2, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-10-01 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Quite honestly, I'm this close to lynching you. I've seen no original thought from you whatsoever. All you do is post memes and quote people. YOU DON'T EVEN WRITE ANYTHING IN YOUR NOTES SECTION. It's like you're mocking us with your lack of content.

ffery, I'm voting Kuroko

Good point, well made.

On to page twenty shortly.

[ZeL1nK2]

what do you think?

?

A very good question, and I will assume Idiocy is a bad guy if they don't address this, post haste.

TAMMY I WENT TO BED BEFORE YOU CAME BACK I'M SO SORRY

You should be sorry. Only bad guys sleep.

Also I agree with fluff that the reasoning for my vote may be a playstyle issue and as such i'll reconsider my stance

Unvote

I do want fluff to get back to kuroko about the kamigami thing however.

I don't think the Kamigami thing is all that interesting, actually.

Mobilepost, so no quotes or whatsoever.
I've just chevked the game quickly.

Quick impressions.

Kagaminette and Luna are very town.

These look town: Ika, Kuroko, Walloffire,
Don't know list: Oil, Konowa, Lynx, Perpetual Notscience
These look scummy: Wisdom, Medea, Zelnick.
Fluff and Tammy are the scummiest. Tammy because of being very different.

This post has been more or less a self reminder.

Also, maybe we could talk about our cards, couldn't we? Acvording to Fferyllt our picks are independent from our alignment. What do you all think?

Mobilepost, so no quotes or whatsoever.
I've just chevked the game quickly.

Quick impressions.

Kagaminette and Luna are very town.

These look town: Ika, Kuroko, Walloffire,
Don't know list: Oil, Konowa, Lynx, Perpetual Notscience
These look scummy: Wisdom, Medea, Zelnick.
Fluff and Tammy are the scummiest. Tammy because of being very different.

This post has been more or less a self reminder.

Also, maybe we could talk about our cards, couldn't we? Acvording to Fferyllt our picks are independent from our alignment. What do you all think?

I don't really like this post(s). The reads list just looks incredibly manufactured. I think mostly because of how fragmented it is in comparison to basically anything I'm currently thinking but also because the reads just look like he chucked a bunch of people in places because why not?

I think the last line is pretty silly all round.

Also it's really annoying to play when the site keeps being slow, and times out at sometimes, i'll get back to this later.

This post was clearly made by a bad guy. Only bad guys blame obvious lurking on the site timing out.

Tammy because of being very different.

different to what?

Eh. For me, personally, I don't feel Tammy's approach to Oil Tycoons, especially the complete over-reaction to posts that didn't say anything like she was suggesting they were saying, didn't feel like how I think she'd approach Oil Tycoons as town. I also do genuinely think that a lot of her early posts felt flat in comparison to what I would expect from her as town and I think the way she tried to shrug off the vote on her early felt like an act and not a very good one. I also do not like the way she's approached forming any of her reads thus far.

To the town Tammy I've seen before.

Also, sorry for the double. Rubbish mobile.

What is different, in your opinion?

Also, maybe we could talk about our cards, couldn't we? Acvording to Fferyllt our picks are independent from our alignment. What do you all think?

Before i go, i'd like to say that i heavily disagree with this for now, specially if what medea said about the elements is true, it may be possible that scum may infer our roles or elements by these claims.

Fun fact: I timed out 3 times trying to post this orz im just gonna come back later

I don't think it's wise to openly discuss cards and elements, but I don't think anything super-awful is likely to result from someone claiming their element. That said, I agree with Medea that it is unnecessary information to reveal unless there's a reason to do so.

Ok. That was just an idea.

Well your idea could be likened to the waste that excretes from a horse's behind.

How is she different than town-tammy?

Oh, and I also do really not like the whole "echo asked me to hydra and then insulted me therefore is a bad guy" thing because of how robotic the whole thing felt. I really do think this was just something she was doing because she was trying to play to an idea that people have of her (i.e. that she reads people who attack her as bad guys) but without the sort of depth that you'd expect a genuine read to have.

also guys make your alts less obvious

i thought i was wrong in my initial prediction of who luna is, but i'm most likely right again

Yeah, nobody is ever going to suspect I'm a Quilford alt if I don't alt-slip, but I'm pretty good with this alt stuff.

Hey Anin. Come back when you're not mobile posting. Got some semi-involved questions to ask ya.

What do you think of Aneneinein so far?

As for now, it's not a concern; I don't think the reasons actually exist that make the Lynx wagon a good one and don't think the majority of the town will follow and so Cephrir will eventually be forced to abandon or explain

(I'm constantly amazed by how much more effective my yelling about various things is so differentially effective depending on the personality I'm emitting)

This seems like a legitimately scummy video to post, to be perfectly honest.

also guys make your alts less obvious

i thought i was wrong in my initial prediction of who luna is, but i'm most likely right again

Not obvious to me. Is Luna someone who would give me reason to question my townread on the slot?

Is your town read based on the assumption that she's inexperienced (and/or unaccustomed to MS)?

nah, she's town

Agreed.

Btw, it's surprisingly difficult to associate your new avatar with you.

When I read Wisdom's posts, that is actually what I imagine Wisdom looks like IRL so I find it surprisingly easy.

i know, that stands for any non-L avatar I would have

This conversation is really interesting and full of game-relevant content and I'm super glad to be reading through it.

This is a particularly bizarre deviation.

I have a 5 person townpile atm, waiting for FG to sign off on a new entry, where are you sitting?

I thoroughly dislike the whole "I have super secret reads and I'm not telling anyone" philosophy that some people have. I don't find it at all helpful to the game state. It's almost as toxic to a game as wall posters, to be honest.

same as before. Tammy, Luna, Nacho. I have a few more that are leaning town but im waiting to see more

I'm also slightly less miffed but still not overly enthusiastic about the whole "I have reads I'm not going to share because I'm waiting for them to develop more" philosophy. But I'm probably being hypocritical because maybe I've said something like that in the past (probably as a bad guy, though).

I approve of Ceph's product and/or service, there's that.

Well this is disappointing as all hell.

Perhaps it is related to understanding the product!

[not caught up]

Hello Pie! And Fire is Mastina/Ceph. Ceph...will be disappointed that WE shall become quieter in the morn

when you're right you're right

I am so underwhelmed every time you post.

Nacho - I’m sorry I got pissy with you last night. You thought I was mad and had a mad read and you didn’t want that coloring my view of the game. Thank you for that. I really wasn’t mad though, and you couldn't know that my suspicion of them had been piqued before that. I realize I didn't say this at the time, though I think I explained it a bit last night, but my suspicion regarding that stemmed from what looked like soft-buddying of you more than it was me being offended.

Notty - A couple things. You asked me last night when I voted you why I voted you without pushing you even though I had been grilling OT. You didn’t answer my question where I was grilling OT. Also did you really not realize why I voted you? I think it was obviously a joke vote since you claimed scum and I thanked you for the scum claim. Your response on that is weird. Also, do you really have a town read on Nacho? You? This early???

Kurecho - I did respond to 286, but I really don’t understand why you asked it in the first place. It felt like a throwaway question and one designed to kind of buddy Nacho. Being illiterate has nothing to do with not interpreting a typographical error anymore than my age has to do with me using the word “guffaw”. He was trolling me and I joked back in response; I think that is pretty clear if you’re following the conversation. I think if you’re scum that Nacho is someone you would want on your good side, so that’s what it felt like you were doing there.

Yes, I have a reputation for obvtowning, though I’d argue that over the past year that’s gotten a bit spotty, but that doesn’t mean that scum don’t attack me. I’m also easy to distract and sometimes get emotional which makes it easy to discredit my thoughts at times. I try to do better but I suck at it sometimes.

I’ve had scum attack me lots of times. Scum have tunneled on me because they think it makes them look town. Scum have used fake paranoia on me. Scum have soft-pushed me. Scum have attacked me for weird ass reasons. Scum have attacked me simply because it gave them something to do. In Tales of Vesperia, the entire scum team attacked me day one. So, no it’s not a town tell to attack me, especially when I think the “attack” stemmed from you trying to show Nacho you were on his side.

(I’m not sure if there’s anything else I wanted to respond to in this. The site’s down, so when I get a chance to reread over what I read this morning, I’ll get to it then.)

Syryana - IT’S OKAY! We can dance later, but I will be sober!

Bins - Do you typically do reads lists on the entire player list within the first 24 hours of a large?

Anen - I’ll echo wisdom’s question. What about me is very different? Also, if I’m the scummiest person according to you, why aren’t you voting me?

What soft buddying are you referring to with regards to Kuroko Network? Out of interest, when (or how often) have you caught a bad guy by noticing "buddying"? Or rather, when (or how often) do you suspect people are bad guys for something that looks like "buddying"? I know I could look this up myself, but I'm still interested in whether you can answer this.

I don't really like the way the questions at the end of the Noddy paragraph are phrased.

I'm also wondering why you're not voting anyone (especially if you feel so strongly about Kuroko Network) and why you're questioning someone else about their lack of vote. (I am fully aware of my own lack of vote and how this might sound hypocritical but you're not 30 pages behind).

VC 1.15

Kuroko Network

(3): Perpetual Nonsense, Oil Tycoons, Wisdom

Wisdom

(2): Medea the Alien, Kuroko Network

LynxKuroneko

(1): Wall of Fire

ZeL1nK2

(1): Konowa

Konowa

(1): Fluff Central

Klingoncelt

(1): Aneninen

Not Voting

(12): BRantz, Ika Zaru, AJ the Epic, Idiocy, ProHawk, LynxKuroneko, Tammy, ZeL1nK2, Klingoncelt, Muki, Kamigami, Luna Fox

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline: October 2, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2015-10-01 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Quite honestly, I'm this close to lynching you. I've seen no original thought from you whatsoever. All you do is post memes and quote people. YOU DON'T EVEN WRITE ANYTHING IN YOUR NOTES SECTION. It's like you're mocking us with your lack of content.

ffery, I'm voting Kuroko

Good point, well made.

On to page twenty shortly.

[ZeL1nK2]

Oh, now I'm double posting, too. Everything is going right today.

[Echo Echo]

Your image is forever tainted.

[Kuroko Network]

Your image is forever tainted.

[Kuroko Network]

Also, when you say Tammy hasn't 'obvtowned' yet, do you mean you don't have a town read on her, you have a scum read on her or you think she looks town but not 'obvtown'?

She looks town but not 'obvtown'.

[Kuroko Network]

Why did you ask about this list of players in particular?

Someone else asked the same question and it was answered later.

[Kuroko Network]

What am I meant to see here?

Wisdom in his underwear proceeding to molest every female player in the game.

[Wisdom]

But this felt somewhat townish because it's kinda rare to find cheeky scum who taunt and sound confident in mislynching someone.

not if you knew who echo is

[Kuroko Network]

Describe what you think his bad guy meta is.

Someone else asked this question and it was answered later.

[ZeL1nK2]

Thanks. I think the automatic vote counter may have trouble sorting abbreviations of kuroko/lynxkuroneko. I'll do some tweaking.

Literally the first thing I've seen you post that could even come close to being called content and it's not even a good post. If I were a vig, I would shoot you tonight.

I'll be here waiting for you Tammy! Check out my new dancin skillz!

This is actually a pretty town dance. Do you want to be masons, Oil Tycoons?

For the record, I'm scumreading him. I dislike how his reads are lacking in reasoning, specifically his scumread on my slot which appears to be slipping a vote on the player of the day, while not providing an inkling of a scumread or any indication of his thought process.

VOTE: kuroko

btw Echo Echo asked me to hydra as well, but I refused. I'm pretty sure I know who he is, too.

This seems like a very lazy attempt to slip on a vote on whom he thinks is the largest wagon -- he might not be aware that there is only one vote on me.

I'd expect town to at least say "Oh, and Kuroko is scum", or "I agree with Tammy's points" before making that vote. However, his subsequent statement does not have any link whatsoever to any reasoning for his vote.

Also, I doubt he knows who I am.

:/

Please, Wall of Fire. You're posting way too much. Be considerate of others who need to parse your enormouse walls.

You continue to obfuscate by pursuing a line of questioning that eventually provide little of value to the overall gamestate.

You have yet to consider the posts of players in a holistic manner and deduce their alignment.

You fail to provide reads on more players despite your self-proclaimed genius at catching scum in the early game.

In short, you're not scumhunting. Ergo, you're scum.

VOTE: Kuroko.

Here is a link to Wisdom's most recent Large Theme non-ongoing scumgame.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=62167

To those of you who were following the game: Do you want this? Do you really want this?

Vote for a better tomorrow. Vote Wisdom.

So now it's a policy lynch?

I actually don't like anything about this post. The last line doesn't even make sense and, while that whole Wisdom exchange had some pretty mediocre posts from Kuroko Network, the one quoted here followed by the vote is probably the least interesting one.

I think that OT is town.
I think that Tammy is obvtowning, but it still has something about it that could be faked to me.
I think that Ika is town.
I think that Zelink is hilarious.
I think that Luna Fox is town.

I think that I formatted this post oddly.

And I don't really like this reads list much, either. Actually, I just don't like the Tammy read. Not even because it's contrary to my own. Just because that whole line is not good. And the rest of the reads are not interesting in any way, shape or form.

These look town: Ika, Kuroko, Walloffire,

You have a townread on Kuroko and Kagamini; does this mean you agree with Kuroko's reasons for pushing fluff?

Also, a piece of advice: Tammy's normal towngame looks nothing like what Swagwars looked like; her scum game is usually far more engaged than that. I did like you pointing out the difference after Tammy responded to Kuroko, though.

How is she different than town-tammy?

The game he's referring to is Swag Wars. She is very different from Swag Wars.

I approve of Ceph's product and/or service, there's that.

Well this is disappointing as all hell.

Perhaps it is related to understanding the product!

I was going to snark at you for this post, but then I saw your end vote and I have to say I'm a much bigger fan of that one.

Tammy I think we cleared up everything last night. Go ahead and do your thing!

Syryana and I have synced perfectly yet again; look forward to yet another prosperous year with Grandpa and Grandfather Oil.

I am actually really interested in knowing what you think of Tammy and, especially, what you think she'd do if she drew a bad guy role PM this game.

I like your reads ceph

Yeah, I imagine most people do. They're pretty unoriginal and pretty go-with-the-flow-y.

Also, I wanted to push Lynx because in a sample size of one game I observed that he responded to pressure as scum by flailing. But we'll probably know his alignment by day three anyway, as I don't think reading him is hard.

Eh. If this is the sole reason you plopped your vote on LynxKuroneko and left it there, then I'm thoroughly unimpressed. Both because it feels incredibly lazy and because if your sample size is one game, then I don't really think you can draw many conclusions about how he acts unless he acted vastly different. I also figure neither of you would feel that a move like that is (or was) necessary to figure out someone's alignment if they're really that easy to read.

The game he's referring to is Swag Wars. She is very different from Swag Wars.

He should not be metaing off one game.

Heh.

oh yeah Tammy what did you think of Bert's posts around the time of our argument? It seemed to me a really town Bert thing to do to ramble on about his paranoia of me while we were fighting, has good progression because he asked you about your read on me earlier I think. I especially liked the part where he accused me of placating and reassuring him when he got defensive.

I'm mostly in agreement with this.

The game he's referring to is Swag Wars. She is very different from Swag Wars.

He should not be metaing off one game.

Should not, sure.
But I've sure as hell done it before and I wouldn't be surprised if other people have and do too.

I would still like to hear what his observations are and why they lead to the read he apparently currently has.

He also meta'd off one game as town in that game and came to a bad conclusion there also :/

No. Someone applying meta incorrectly and coming to incorrect conclusions. I don't believe that could ever happen. Surely you jest.

I love that video.

This is a pretty town thing to say. I don't think a bad guy would express their love for a video. It's almost too controversial and bad guys rarely like being controversial.

oh yeah Tammy what did you think of Bert's posts around the time of our argument? It seemed to me a really town Bert thing to do to ramble on about his paranoia of me while we were fighting, has good progression because he asked you about your read on me earlier I think. I especially liked the part where he accused me of placating and reassuring him when he got defensive.

Not that you asked me: I am now townreading Bert.

Careful; if you rock the boat that much, you're gonna create waves.

For the same reasons I am or...?

No, no. He clearly has original thought.

I'll be here waiting for you Tammy! Check out my new dancin skillz!

I'm impressed! Im in the midst of getting ready, but I can dance some for a little while!

Stop buddying.

I think that Tammy is obvtowning, but it still has something about it that could be faked to me.

heh.

Stop buddying.

The only reason I asked Tammy is because it was just something that seemed really town at time; I would post and argue with Tammy for a while and then Bert would call me charismatic and slimy. I think it would be really ballsy of him to whisper in Tammy's ear mid-argument and I wasn't sure if that translated when reading back.

Hmm. I don't think the taking-Tammy's-side thing was all that interesting, I did think going against the stream and suggesting it was possible you were manipulating things was OK, though.

oh yeah Tammy what did you think of Bert's posts around the time of our argument? It seemed to me a really town Bert thing to do to ramble on about his paranoia of me while we were fighting, has good progression because he asked you about your read on me earlier I think. I especially liked the part where he accused me of placating and reassuring him when he got defensive.

I'll have to go back and reread it.

Nitpicking here and probably partially biased because of my already-formed opinion, but I do not really like this post. It is the sort of thing I might post if I wanted space to formulate and construct a fabricated opinion. I mean, I suppose it's also possible she just genuinely didn't have time to do it at that moment, so this really could just be me making a mountain out of a molehill, but little things like this bug me.

Well, we can proper dance later, honey child. But since yer here, anything that pops into your head that ya wanna tell Grandfather Syr?

No.

Whos here

I'm so glad you're here to be a voice of reason in this game. We need more good posters like you on mafiascum.

Whos here

WE didn't know Who was part of that hydra.

I have nothing to say about this post. I suppose I'll give it a sympathy chuckle or something. Hehe.

Whos here

WE didn't know Who was part of that hydra.

And what are youuuuuu thinking?

Oil Tycoons, work on your pick-up lines. This one will never work.

Something about how to add more Jojo references.
Or something something Avatar.

Oh, good. I was worried you were going to start contributing but it turns out hell hasn't frozen over.

Notty - A couple things. You asked me last night when I voted you why I voted you without pushing you even though I had been grilling OT. You didn’t answer my question where I was grilling OT. Also did you really not realize why I voted you? I think it was obviously a joke vote since you claimed scum and I thanked you for the scum claim. Your response on that is weird. Also, do you really have a town read on Nacho? You? This early???

1) I'm not sure what I was thinking of, I'll go look back. I didn't mean like "purge him with the fire of 1000 holy suns" but it seemed like you were rather dedicated to it and the switch off of sizing him up to me bothered me.

2) I understand it was a joke. My hangup is that, and I will go back and try to get quotes for you with what actually made me feel that way, you seemed to back off from sizing him up to a weak joke vote on me.

3) I moreso had a townread on Syry. And I wasn't exactly going to come out and say it in-thread >_>.

I don't really have anything to say about this post other than it is reasonable. And not particularly interesting.

And on to pages 21-25 tomorrow.

I feel like I'm making good progress and will have caught up very soon.

[Kuroko Network]

But this felt somewhat townish because it's kinda rare to find cheeky scum who taunt and sound confident in mislynching someone.

not if you knew who echo is

Echo Echo.

[Wisdom]

Next, I stated a town lean on Tammy, so "isn't sure about her alignment all" is incorrect.

nope, you said "i don't know if you are town or scum" in the same post you were treating her as town.

[Wisdom]

I just can't see them as scum atm.

why are they town? The only reason I can come up with is that they are playing rather badly if they are scum, especially given both heads know it's suicide to go up against me, but if I ignore that, they keep making scummy approaches to practically everything. What do you see that makes you think town?

[Wisdom]

The person actually trying to do something is being lynched and the lazy ones are leading that wagon.

maybe they're doing things exactly because they're being lynched?

but regardless, effort does not indicate alignment.

[Wisdom]

Both supporty heads were playing individually in a FG game with multiple neighborhoods. Can't remember the name - want to say a later VisCon without the poisoners. OUR neighborhood with Wis and another person (don't remember who) was watched by scum, but none of US were informed that WE might be compromised by people not participating/listed in the neighborhood. :X

^another game i was apathetic as town, btw.