STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin, if Sonic was town, why would fuzzy not claim he used the LD and that sonic was scum? NO matter what fuzzy scum does, he gets lynched today pretty much all the time. Claiming he got a result gets sonic killed as well instead of just fuzzy going down.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

...all he said was that he was suspicious of frogger (which is likely evident from the pt they had), as is the fact that he decided he was town. Like, man, I hate how scummy you are and how transparent your attempts at misdirection are.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fuzzy, I would expect that he was given access to the pts that the person he's replacing had access to.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

what part of my case does not make sense? What part of "The only way TW could have known his power is if he told them it" is confusing?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Stop talking about your stupid "oh, yeah, x MUST be town because they happened to vote for scum that were going down". Seriously. Meh. This is all irritating me right now actually. You can have your reason for believing people are town, and I'll have my own, better, reason. I wasn't aware that you had claimed fully to Grapes as well(who, btw, makes perfect sense as a miller, so that's meaningless). Grapes was not the only roleblocker in the game, farside could roleblock, and fro99er could jailkeep. Am I like the only person in this game who actually remembers who claimed they could do what? So many outright incorrect things being stated.

Grapes: No. The reason why TW was scum is because they were referring to him being refilled, which indicated knowledge of the copying mechanic, which was the issue.

Mastin: Did sonic full claim in your PT with grapes during the season finale?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm talking about your points about Mastin. Not yourself. I don't care about your points about yourself, because you have your own defense in mind.

Anyways, I asked you, flat out, if you had claimed to anyone else, before I brought up the TW case. You said you hadn't. Why are you changing that now?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yes, I understand these things.

1) There is strong evidence, for reasons related to my role that I won't reveal, that scum would not have a roleblocker/had a jailkeeper rather than a roleblocker.
2) Why would grapes claim their roleblock at all? There's no reason to. Double voter is sufficient in and of itself. Roleblocker has a scum taint to it. Why would scum grapes rub that taint all over themselves for no reason?

Also, I'm going to sleep. More in the morning my time. Anyways, that's a perfectly reasonable argument for someone other than you, sonic, being scum, so I'll consider it. It's a complete toss up though as far as I can tell. By the metric you use, that of voting history etc, you're both equally likely to be town. By the metric I'm using, you're both equally likely sources of the information TW had. The interactions you had with TW yesterday don't look good for you though Sonic.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fuzzy is the one who referenced that, and you agreed with him on it as the reason why x is town. Therefore you're utilizing said information as at least a part of your metric. Anyways

Yes, I actually did know you said you had *partially* claimed to grapes, which is why I dismissed it. I asked grapes for a hint, and his hint was because you're an attention whore. That does not in any way indicate you told him you could copy things, only that you wanted to be targeted, which is something I already knew.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

And you didn't correct him. So if you did indeed tell him something which indicated that you copied things which were targeted at you, then...it's very important to make that distinction.

Sonic, why did TW want you to have Fuzzy's refill power, as town?

Grapes, who have you blocked this game, and when?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic, it was a single tenuous connection before TW'S flip indicated there were no other possibilites. That upgraded it to strong evidence. You revealing that grapes was told enough to also be a possible source of the information downgraded it to a tenuous connection again, which applies to both grapes and yourself now. My death on N4 does nothing to change the fact that you would have been obviously acting to derail a lynch on scum (to mastin, at least, who can be very vocal you know), and resulted in his lynch, and then yours. Or maybe even your lynch that day, and then his. I see it as perfectly reasonable for scum you to not take that risk.

Sonic, the days are like weeks long. 48h is a short clock when the games are that long, and when you shooting will limit the discussion to is sonic right, wrong, or scum. Waiting is almost always the best thing to do with these sorts of things, but everyone's stupidly impatient.

So yeah. I'm not ignoring evidence. I simply realize there are other lines scum you could have taken than the ones you're saying you would have taken, and those lines mean your evidence simply isn't evidence.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Because fuzzy isn't a possible way TW knew your role. The better question is why am I voting you rather than grapes.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

My death on N4 does nothing to change the fact that you would have been obviously acting to derail a lynch on scum (to mastin, at least, who can be very vocal you know), and resulted in his lynch, and then yours. Or maybe even your lynch that day, and then his. I see it as perfectly reasonable for scum you to not take that risk.

I think you need to read in context instead of reading in a vacuum.

Whatever! Why are you voting me instead of fuzzy?

Following your reads progression.

why am i even playing on this account

In cawe ZZZX decides to chime in? :p Anyways, this is kinda back burnered right now because I have other things I kinda need to focus on, and there's a lot of work to do in terms of deciphering all this. I don't feel that further conversation without actual investigation on my part will be fruitful, and I don't have the time to do said investigating right now. I am deliberately leaving my vote on you, I will be reading, but I won't be talking for a bit.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't dislike your playstyle. The only issue I have with anyone's playstyle is in people's posting styles, that is, I find it incredibly difficult to read posts that are lacking grammar/punctuation/a coherent progression of thoughts...like Marquis' early posts this game. I hated those. So much.

Also note, that thing you quoted was posted by Drixx, and the majority of the posting this game since then (with some notable exceptions) has been by me. During that whole snafu between yourself and fro99er, I felt it was TvT(and I believe Drixx did too) but we felt it was something that would distract town all game, and thus needed to be ended, and we had a stronger town read on fro99er than yourself, namely because of the weird timing of your gladiate attempt combined with it being unlikely you made that attempt without realizing someone else had hammered, all of which combined to make your gladiate attemptsl and subsequent outrage at both the hammer and your wasted shot appear to be feigned. Thus, you were scum more than fro99er.

With regards to your Constantine point: You're proposing. Cooldog/Constantine pair as the last two scum then?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Btw your point is reasonable about constantine, minus the cop clear on him and the terrible scum play of not simply playing along with the make a match game and actively discouraging people from wasting their time attempting to be Constantines neighbor.

Was Titus' outrage at the scum inability to effect alliances faked or real Sonic?

-Cerb

Pedit: Yes, season finale was TW/MP/RR

I should really reread those alliances, considering I have a BUNCH of content that happened where I was only interacting with scum.

[Reasonably Rational]

Bleh I'm mobile too man. :p maybe when I get home if I leave work early. It was right in her first scum claim post I think.

Ftr, as of the end of yesterday I was 100% there was scum between yourself and fuzzy, because of your clear LD posts, with these scenarios in mind:

1) Claimed planning to kill fuzzy and argue it was a framing kill. Scum you, town Fuzzy
2) Claimed planning to roleblock fuzzy, same result as killing him
3) Fuzzy planned to claim a guilty on you, resulting in your mislynch, then his lynch, with some mechanic for winning the game in the resulting lylo/over the season finale. Fuzzy scum, you town.

And more, actually. I have a headache right now though and it pains me to continue this post. Long story short though, him not LDING you makes it look a lot more like you're both scum, and he simply realized when I said he was getting lynched to confirm his result, that there was no result he could give that would help.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You don't understand. If the LD was a gambit by both of you as scum, you can make those posts without fear. If you're scum, and plan to kill him, you can still make those posts withiut fear. He's alive, so you're both scum together, or you are 100% town.

That should lead us to lynch him today

BUT here's the problem. He told you he wasn't going to LD you. That reopens the possibility that scum you decided it was better to leave the easy mislynch on the table and kill elsewhere.

And that is why this isn't as simple as you're making it out to be.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

...what? So your lie detector explicitly forbids results to confirm or deny a post made regarding someone's alignment?. Fuzzy, answer my damn question in our PT.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, is that a limitation of your power that you informed sonic of?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

If you're scum, and plan to kill him, you can still make those posts withiut fear.

This is proven FALSE, by the way.

How so?

sorry, i ran out of secret messages

???????????

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I prob messed up on the post number but I am referring the post he did a full claim on his ability
I was on my phone so I did not check ..

I honestly think TSO figured out Sonic ability. Maybe I giving her too much credit but she is a dang good player

RR it will be later before I can get to the PT but I can answer you question here if you want

...just go to view your posts, click on our pt, and type the answer there instead of here. Not sure how you could possibly be able to answer in here, but not in there. Especially considering that I'm leery of a sonic/fuzzy team, I'd much prefer if you told me things somewhere where sonic can't see what you said.

-Cerb

Pedit: night sonic! Constantine, grapes, nic cage, and klingon should really be saying more. I'm kinda sick of talking.

[Reasonably Rational]

The whole fuzzy is a lie detector thing nic? Not sure what you want paraphrased.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Got it. Fuzzy is a lie detector, and said a buncha times that he doesn't believe Klingon is a cop, because the town wouldn't have so many cops, but he also just said his power can't be used on alignment statememts, so, I don't know wtf he was talking about.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay Sonic,

I'm going to give you one more shot at this, and if you refuse to do it, I will take it as an admission of guilt.

I would like you to evaluate each of the posts Titus made when she gave up and admitted being scum, giving your thoughts on what is likely to be potentially true, starting with whether you believe she was actually angry at the time or just faking it. Evaluate each post by quoting it and giving your thoughts. We want something to read you by that is separate from the chain of logic that results in you having given your role info to her in the scum chat.

If you are town, you should obviously want your thoughts out there either way, and certainly if you are town you don't want us to waste a mislynch on you, and certainly if you are town, you want to read through that series of posts anyway, as it is

at least possible

that she was legitimately angry and let actual info out into the thread. There's also a reason that scum are advised not to try and spill a bunch of WiFoM into the thread when they are dying, since it can frequently give the town actual info and get the scum's partners caught.

So ... I can see a scum Sonic trying to avoid doing the evaluation for fear of messing up whatever plan Titus had with those posts, but I see no reason for a town Sonic to have refused my request. So it's not a request anymore. You will do it if you are really town, and if you don't do it, we shall view that as your admission that you are scum. As simple as that.

Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Should I gladiate Fuzzy as well?

If you just want to outright claim scum, I suppose that would be a good move.

Fuzzy is supposed to refill us tonight. If he doesn't, that's basically him admitting he is scum. So why waste any more thought on it until we see if that happens or not?

Nic ... we're going to want you to watch us tonight in case any scum try to kill us. We have a theory we would like to tell.

And remember, Sonic, we haven't disclosed our abilities, except for one. Suffice it to say they are useful and have probably frustrated the scum team. Fuzzy refilling us lets us use something tonight and expect to use it again before the finale refill, and if fuzzy doesn't refill then we caught scum so it's worth the use anyway.

But you just need to stop appealing to emotion just because circumstantial evidence points to you. Instead, do your townie thing and evaluate the Titus posts. That's actually a productive usage of your time. All of your whinging and AtE just make us more sure that the logic is sound, or else you would have been doing townie things instead of what you have instead been doing.

It's like I said during yesterday's day phase ... I don't want you to be scum. What I want has zero correlation to how roles and alignment got assigned though ... so we would like to be able to read you instead of just applying the Razor.

[Reasonably Rational]

We have a theory we would like to test* ... hooray for typos.

[Reasonably Rational]

Fuzzy, we're not interested in talking to you. Either you refill us tonight or you don't. If you don't, you get lynched tomorrow. It's as simple as that. You could have either found scum or confirmed Sonic into the town block and chose to do neither. There aren't nice words in response to that, so I choose not to use the not nice words.

Still waiting for Sonic to do town sonic things.

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes, Nic Cage: Did you guys become Opal when you fused earlier?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, 1) there is a miller claim already, and 2) scum had an ascetic. Does ascetic+gf seem likely?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Grapes, Nic Cage: Did you guys become Opal when you fused earlier?

-Cerb

Opal is my fusion name. The pt wasn't titled a name, it was just called a fusion.

This confuses me. What do you mean Opal is your fusion name, if the pt wasn't titled anything?

Also, mastin, xtoxm, seriously, sonic is scum. Why aren't you voting with me? His claim is THE ONLY ONE that isn't from the show. Even if you don't believe the logic for anything else...it just doesn't make sense.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

No, klingon, we will be with you.
Nic and grapes
Klingon us
Fuzzy, xtoxm, mastin, and constantine...I don't know.

Fuzzy+constantine? Xtoxm+mastin?

[Reasonably Rational]

Actually, constantine, if you are town, I think you HAVE to invade mastin tonight. Seriously. Do it. I don't like to direct people's actions, but....you invading mastin is the safest play we have.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Xtoxm is town for the same reason mastin is. It's in my iso, repeatedly, and I'm mobile so I'm not digging it up.

At the moment fuzzy, you're still scum. Refilling us was basically something scum had to do, so you don't really get any town points for doing that under duress. The only thing giving me pause is TW pushing you over MP on D3, but it's entirely possible they saw more value in keeping the strongman around than whatever you could be. If you're not scum, constantine is. If Constantine isn't, grapes is.


-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I think that we think that Klingon being killed (and janitored) was meant to be a WiFoM move; however, the killing of the cop suggests scum fearing being investigated which points at Fuzzy or Grapes.

@Nic - We need an explanation for why you resurrected, and why you weren't watching anyone last night. We think we know, but it would be better for you to just say so explicitly at this point.

[Reasonably Rational]

For the record, Drixx and I have been discussing the game, and we think we have a moderate amount of evidence showing that it's unlikely Fuzzy is actually scum, contrary to his play(mostly due to Drixx's work). I'll let Drixx elaborate once we finish ironing out the kinks and figure out who else is most likely scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin2 - Town for reasons outlined before, namely that giving scum knowledge of who we were D3 simply doesn't fit with the other mechanical quirks of this game and the abilities shown on the scum team.
Xtoxm - Town for same reasons as Mastin2.

Suspects
grapes - Claimed Miller D1, Amethyst, double voter.
Thefuzzylogic99 - The Cool Kids
St Constantine the Hermit Bins

So, the main suspects for the last scum are St., grapes, and fuzzy. First, I'll address why fuzzy is unlikely to be scum

1) Fuzzy is consistently pushed as a lynch by scum. He is even offered up as a counterwagon to Maxwell, with both Sonic and TW swapping over to him one after another, on D4. There's no way scum would deliberately counterwagon from one of their own team members to another member of their team, the day after losing someone, and basically guarantee the consecutive loss of members of their team.
2) In TW's slip post, they want fuzzy to refill sonic, so as to give the refill TO sonic. Sonics power explicitly states that he cannot copy his teammates powers. It seems incredibly unlikely that TW would both make this post forgetting that town does not know about sonics power, while simultaneously REMEMBERING to maintain the illusion that sonic could indeed copy fuzzy's motivate. In addition, in the event that fuzzy were scum, this post sets up sonic to die later, when he shows that he actually can't use the motivate he supposedly copied. It just doesn't make sense.

So, that leaves us with grapes, and constantine.

Constantine is only scum under a limited number of circumstances.

1)6 person scum team, klingon and constantine were the last two members, and klingon thus faked the innocent on constantine, and was then janitor killed by his own team in the hopes that they could ride said innocent into the end game.

2)The scum team contained both a godfather and an ascetic. This is possible, but I feel it's only slightly more likely than scenario 1, which is improbable.

3)Redirection of some sort occurred to mess with Klingons investigation.

None of those seem especially likely. They are, of course, possible, so Constantine's cop clear is suspect.

Now, grapes. I can't find any reason why you're actually town. The closest thing to a clear we have is sonics attempt to pin the leak to TW about his power on you, but the best case scenario for that for him, if you were town, was a single mislynch on you yesterday, and then a guaranteed lynch on him today. That doesn't save him. What does save him is if you are his actual partner, you flip scum, and then he has a very nice reason presented for why the TW slip doesn't actually mean he's scum, something which he could, combined with all his actions, could have easily let him make it into the end game.

Your play throughout has been rather opportunistic, you just kind of seemed to sheep everything. I don't see anything really in the way of pushes from you. Other than the fact that you happened to be on scum lynches, which were all basically guaranteed to go through(the MP lynch is the only scum lynch this game that wasn't backed by a functional guilty), there just isn't town motivation in your play.

I think that's a decent summation of our current thoughts on the game state.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

yea you don't get to talk shit about my play this game mate, at least i haven't hard defended obvscum

I'm not talking shit about your play? I'm saying I don't see pushes and scumhunting from you, and basically entreating you to show it to me if I've missed it somewhere, which is possible.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

See that's what i was saying too, about how the whole thing could have been a post intended to clear fuzzy deliberately in that way, but, like, if the post was *that* important, it just seems implausible that TW would remember that part of the lie, but not remember to not slip about everything else. Like, you have to posit that TW completely forgot that town didn't know about sonics power, and so made that post assuming it was known. Then, from that, while in the process of making a mistake, they were careful enough to not slip about fuzzy. It just seems weird.

Why didn't you lynch fuzzy when he was at L-1 if you're sure he's the last scum?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, why do you want out of this game? :-/ Why is everyone so unmotivated now? We seriously just lynched scum 4x in a row but somehow nobody in the game wants to talk anymore.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also another fair point, Grapes' role and powers make complete sense. Fuzzy's lie detector does not.

Yes, I know.

It's hard man. Fuzzy feels...too easy, almost. Like there must be something more going on. There isn't any actual REASON to think fuzzy is scum, at least, no reason that isn't at least counterbalanced by something else. Look at our name. We like to have reasons for things.

I'm basically in a situation where I feel there is equal evidence for all three of my suspects to be the remaining scum. I'm trying to pick someone out who's more suspicious than the others, but I've got nothing. Drixx is pretty sure about fuzzy not being scum, and he has valid points, which are less unreasonable than a lot of other scenarios that are required for others to be scum...so if I'm going to give weight to the scenarios that make others scum, but are implausible, i have to give weight to the arguments that make him NOT scum. If that makes sense?

Grapes, xtoxm can easily be third party. There's an outside chance he's an SK who decided to not kill, or some non killing third party role. I find it impossible for him to be on the same team as sonic/fro99er/MP/TW because the mechanics just don't make sense.

As the mod, you don't give the scum team a power that can infinitely shut down ONLY certain people, and let them know, for free, who one of those people are, and have that person also be the main character. You also don't give a strongman shot that's only usable on N4 to the team, when you have an IC that can only trigger themselves AFTER N4, and also let them know who the person they'd probably want to be killing with said shot on N4 is early. There was CLEARLY a deliberate dynamic there with us conftowning AFTER scum use their strongman, and scum having a few days of figuring out how to kill us through the wifom of potential protections, without being able to just instakill us. The whole thing is too elegantly put together, to not be deliberate, and xtoxm or mastin as part of the scum team make it fall apart.

Nic, Mastin has claimed to me, but I don't believe she is scum, so I'm not going to claim for her. I'll let her do that if she wants to.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fuzzy, you're allied with constantine?

Constantine, confirm please?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fuzzy, you're allied with constantine?

Constantine, confirm please?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay, so...I just talked to Drixx, and we think it might be best if we did this, to solve the miller/godfather problem, and the fact that xtoxm seems super likely to be third party.

Today, we lynch Constantine/Grapes, to remove the godfather paranoia/miller problem. We have xtoxm make a post saying "I am town and win under the same exact conditions as all other town." and nothing else. Fuzzy, you'll LD that post tonight. Come tomorrow, we'll know if xtoxm is town or third party, and we'll also only have one suspect left, assuming we don't catch them the first time of course.

Will you work with us and do it this time Fuzzy?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Except my LD doesnt work on allighnment or win condition. I checked. I think thats why klingon was the three shot cop.

My LD ability works on roles and abilities. This is why a Sonic LD wouldnt of worked. He didnt lie about any of thoose things....which was unfortunate . I have a weak investigational role.

Sonic pushed the idea of a GF after he learned Klingon was a cop. This really makes me thinks he was trying to cast a doubt on Klingons result and future results if somehow Klingon lived. You dont just hand over a role like that to the town. Plus Sonic tried to bs the town on several occasion which makes me think he is lying here.

I am with a Grape /Xtoxm lynch today and tommorow so if you want to lynch Grapes today than Xtoxm tommorow


my ideal lynch order
Xtoxm/Grapes
Xtoxm / Grapeas ( which ever one of them is not lynched)
Hermit

I am 99.9 percent sure if we lynch the top two we will win. Lynching Hermit day on the last day will give us the certain win if somehow Grapes/Xtoxm are not scum.

Ugh. Forgot about that. Okay then, we'll have Xtoxm post "The only thing my role does is put me into an alliance with Steven on day 3." That should firmly establish him as town or scum, right? If he's scum, he should be able to do something else. That's the best I can come up with. Can you do that Fuzzy?

Nic: Yeah, that's the problem I'm having too. The simple fact that Grapes is Amethyst, and everyone else has been appropriately aligned by flavor, and those that were questionable were scum, makes me doubt him as scum. Plus the fact that I find it extremely implausible for there to be both a roleblocker and a jailkeeper on the scum team.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, I almost forgot: Grapes, you said you also had the thought, upon seeing Sonics flip, that fuzzy couldn't be scum. What changed between then and now to make you suspect Fuzzy?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Where are you getting the idea that Sonic couldn't copy his teammates powers?

Sonic X was bubbled during the sixth Episode's Exposition. They were

Light Prism : Absorbing Gladiator

aligned with

The Yellow Diamond Authority

.

Light Prism's role functions as follows:

Sonic X - Light Prism

Absorbing Gladiator (Yellow Diamond Authority)

I'm... sorry...

This is an ancient gem weapon. Your race is Other . You will do not gain specific bonuses for being in an ALLIANCE. In the hands of a powerful gem, it could command an entire army of light! Each Climax phase, you may target one player to ALLY with. Refer to the Rules post in the thread for how ALLIANCES function. What... do you... want me... to be? You passively and reflexively copy all active abilities that target you. This does not include your factional allies' abilities. This only includes explicitly normal abilities. This whole time they've been fighting FOR me! They must've been so confused. Once per game, during the Exposition phase, you may target a player by posting FIGHT ME, [PLAYER NAME] . All votes are reset. Only two players are now votable; you and your target. ...MASTER... You may talk to your faction in this Private Thread: [REDACTED] Your teammates include: [REDACTED] You win the game when you eliminate all opposing factions or there is nothing keeping you from doing so (this includes your faction equaling that of the Beach City Residents (town) faction).

The bolded and large text.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I see.

TW was sloppy enough to scumslip in the first place, so I think it's entirely possible they forgot and/or were unaware of that.

Grapes role sounds town, you said that yourself.

Yes, but clearing people off role alone is bad. Just because I find it unlikely that the setup as a whole would have grapes role on the scum team, doesn't mean I'm not wrong.

Are you going to make the post I suggested above?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Cool. So Fuzzy, if you just lie detect that tonight, that should resolve that issue.

Mastin, haven't heard from you in awhile. Thoughts?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Good catch xtoxm. Sorry about that. Fuzzy, will you LD 4680?? i just want confirmation that you're going to do it, since last time you didn't.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

OK I will ally with xtoxm tonight so I can LD him. I would love to lynch him today and LD Grapes but I will follow your lead.

So you're going to ally and LD him tonight?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Sorry my mistake
his power didn't work that way..or he would remind her of that. Noway a mistake like that would go unnoticed. Point being you are pushing a bad point. Still think you are desperately trying to get a mislynch.


Yes I will that's unless Xtoxm doesn't ally with me

Cool, so that should let us know if we need to lynch grapes tomorrow.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Wait I thought I was going to LD Xtoxm tonight. Honestly I would rather lynch xtoxm today and LD Grapes tonight. However if you want to lynch Grapes today and LD tonight I will do that. I am 99 percent sure however Xtoxm is the last scum

Lol sorry yes I meant xtoxm, not grapes. LD+Ally xtoxm tonight, lynch grapes today, and tomorrow we know if something weird is going on with xtoxm.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Sorry just have to get this off my brain. I guess this is a kinda out of game comment but if yall want to see it as a scum telll thats fine. This game doesnt mean jack at this point. I more worried that Drixx and Cerb wil be PO at me and wont want to play with me in any other games. The players I meet are as important to the game as winning. I am sorry if I did anything to get yall mad. I hope will me a second chance if we happen to be inthe same game. Thanks for listening to me little rant

Oh, I didn't respond to this. Fuzzy, unless you are an unbearable asshole, basically a bigot of some sort or someone who freaks out and spews insults and vulgarity into the thread, I won't be upset with you. No need to worry about that. There just didn't seem to be much point to talking with you in the pt in particular, because your thoughts were so wildly different from my own, and it simply did not(and still does not) make sense to me.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Please Please Please none of you place a vote on

anyone

until we ask for it. Grapes has an ability that is WAY too dangerous to take any chances. The Constantine slot is especially worrisome to us on that count.

There's a small narrow margin of doubt about Grapes, but he has to be lynched this day phase regardless of anything he might say to excuse what he did yesterday

because

of what he did yesterday:

1.) First said he wanted out of the game and that lynching the claimed Miller before end game was the right move.
2.) Placed his own survival in the game ahead of any other concern
3.) Ended the day early with no warning, resulting in town having not prepared for the larger alliances
4.) In doing 2 and 3, he contradicted his own expressed desire and (correct) assertion that a miller has to be killed before endgame.

• Putting your own survival ahead of other concerns is the action of the final member of a scum team.
  
• Saying one thing and doing another is a reliable scum tell
  
• Screwing up planning alliances when they can be at their most powerful is obviously anti-town.

My guess is: his plan was to get fuzzy mislynched, then kill someone (probably Nic, which is who we see dead), then push for a Constantine slot lynch and then kill someone (Presumably Xtoxm) and that would leave Us (RR), Mastin and him left in LYLO ... and everyone who has vote related abilities has said their vote mechanisms don't work in the end game, so either he is lying and he could instantly double vote in LYLO to win or he is assuming Mastin wouldn't have a vote and he would thus end game us.

We screwed up his plan by logically clearing fuzzy, and from outside appearances we were working out a way for Fuzzy to clear Xtoxm, which would confirm him (grapes) as scum and so he had only one play to make yesterday: End the day early and hope he can figure out some miraculous way to smooth talk his way out of it today.

We're pretty sure we'll win when we lynch Grapes, but if somehow despite all the evidence against him, he is town ... he destroyed a guaranteed town win (no way for us to lose once we cleared Fuzzy as the remaining possible scum could all be lynched before they could endgame town) just to keep himself alive... The verbal evisceration he would receive from me if that ends up being the case will be legendary. They'll be telling stories and mythologizing it for years to come.

But that's probably not going to happen. Grapes just made a spite play and should be lynched with prejudice. We're going to vote him now, but we would like the rest of you to think for yourselves if you agree.

If you somehow come to the absurdly difficult to believe conclusion that Grapes is town, which we would find incredibly ridiculous, please withhold voting on anyone else and instead post your case against whomever and let others comment. Grapes can instantly end this day if any vote is placed on anyone but him.

VOTE: Grapes

Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I realize I may not have put this into context well enough. When we cleared fuzzy logically yesterday, we had 3 possible scum left (Grapes, Constantine, Xtoxm) and the last one, Xtoxm, would be much more likely to be a neutral party than part of the scum team we've seen. We also had 3 Lynches remaining, assuming no night kills get blocked. As long as one of those 3 lynches hit scum, we were guaranteed to win.

Grapes, out of pure selfishness, decided to unilaterally end the day and mislynch someone who was logically cleared as town and therefore moved the game from a guaranteed town win to being possibly in doubt. It is not now possible to lynch all possible scum candidates. We only have room to be wrong once now, instead of the margin of two mislynches we had before Grapes did what he did.

So vote Grapes for the win, once you process and realize we're right.

Love, with warm milk and cookies for victory,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

UNVOTE: xtoxm

Xtoxm can easily end the day by voting Grapes. You need to unvote too.

Except grapes is scum. It's basically either him or xtoxm, xtoxm STILL doesn't make sense as the last member of the scum team, and grapes played in an anti town fashion and contradicted himself yesterday. I don't mind some discussion in case we're somehow wrong, but grapes is dying today because, as he said himself, you shouldn't let a miller near lylo.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Xtoxm doesn't have the ability to double vote, ergo if Xtoxm voted for Grapes, that would be L-1. As has been the case all game, you are just spouting nonsense.

@Mod - Constantine failed to pick up his prod and was in the process of being replaced. I request that he be force replaced and I request that you talk to the list mods and have him given an non-voluntary break from games on site since he came into the game and posted and could take a wrecking ball to this game after you announced he was being replaced. He should not be posting in this thread since you announced he was being replaced and as far as I can see never rescinded that announcement.

[Reasonably Rational]

@Mod - Unless of course he contacted you within 24 hours of his final prod, via PM, as the rules describe. If he did so, then I have no ground to ask him to be removed and disciplined for breaking site rules.

[Reasonably Rational]

The rules are there for everyone to read. You did not respond to your prod, and if you did not PM the mod by 24 hours from the timestamp (Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:46 am, which is Central time US), then the rules say you're out. Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse, and if you should not be in the game, then you

definintely

should not be putting other people's huge investments of time at risk because your idea of fun is trolling every game you play on this site. You came into the thread when all reasonable expectation was that you were being replaced, so since you are busy trolling us in the thread, I see no reason to make my request private.

[Reasonably Rational]

I am a bit uninformed on the site wide activity policy, so any rules about prods need to be explained to me, because I wouldn't understand them otherwise.

Perhaps you should read the first posts by the game moderator when you join a game? Then you would know the rules for the game, including the requirement that you respond within 24 hours of his prod. From what you have said, it seems that you did not do so.

Anyways, I am worried that Grapes could be scum. I just am not as worried about him as Xtoxm.

This is what I'm talking about when I say you apparently are on this site to troll people. You clearly haven't been keeping up with the game state.

[Reasonably Rational]

Anyways, I am worried that Grapes could be scum. I just am not as worried about him as Xtoxm.

Prior to yesterday, xtoxm, by play, was scum more than grapes....but that changed with grapes hammer and contradictory posting yesterday.

-Cerb

Pedit: none of the stuff about force replacing you was me, drixx, tag yo posts home. <3

[Reasonably Rational]

@Cerberus

Not sure how you have more knowledge of Varsoon's messages to me.
I think I contacted him 8 hours or so after the final prod with my desired night actions, so I am almost certain that I am still in this game.

Out of common courtesy though, you honestly need to keep complaints about specific players private. Nothing I do justifies making "myself" into a public issue.

Cerberus didn't make any post regarding your prod. I was under the impression you were gone from the game because Varsoon said nothing about you responding and still being in the game at the day start. Given that you put out a vote that could have let Grapes end the day, when it was unclear to me whether you should even be posting in the thread, I see no problem with asking the question publicly. Prod requests are frequently made publicly, as are requests to replace problematic players.

If you feel singled out, maybe you could take some time to read the game before you risk everyone's time with your trolling. The only reason you aren't already lynched is because a slot that claimed cop said you are not scum, and that slot got killed by scum which makes their claim pretty solid.

The reason Xtoxm hasn't been lynched is because of logic that says he cannot be on the scum team along with all of the flipped scum we have already seen. If you had kept up with the game even at a surface level you would know that.

If you were at all paying attention or had read the thread from yesterday, you would know that Fuzzy was logically cleared as town, and Grapes intentionally mislynched him, contradicting his (grapes) own prior assertion that he wanted out of the game because it was just on cruise control to win and that he agreed he should be lynched because of his miller claim.

In other words, you do not appear to have even the tiniest idea of what has happened in the game. You seem to simply enjoy trolling people, and if you don't change your behavior soon, you are going to just become a WotC lynch in any game you join. You can be mad all you like. I'm just telling you the plain truth. Do with that what you will, but know that I hope you'll stop with the trolling and actually play games in a way that won't just irritate everyone you're playing with.

[Reasonably Rational]

Xtoxm has been a scumread of mine the whole game.

Here's why Xtoxm is a bad scum read, since you apparently just skipped reading it earlier in the game:

1.) Xtoxm learned our identity on Day 3
2.) The scum team had a role that could permanently keep us from forming alliances or fusions, meaning that even if Ricastle hadn't killed Tunnel Warriors, we could not have avoided death that way.
3.) The scum team had a strongman they could only use on night 4 and night 8 and (if the game somehow went on that long) night 12.
4.) We were able to trigger being IC on day 5

If Xtoxm (or Mastin) were on the scum team, then the design of this game would be completely broken. It would be impossible for us to survive to the point where we could become IC without a ridiculous amount of luck. Fuzzy was, in fact, partially cleared by the fact that scum tried to use him to stop MP from being lynched on day 4.

Since it is completely irrational to assume Varsoon had such a glaring broken piece in his game, and since everything is quite elegantly put together when you assume it's not broken (Mastin and Xtoxm are not on the scum team), the probability of Xtoxm being scum approaches absolute zero. His play has been nearly as bad as Vezok's play was (Please recall that Vezok got his mod confirmed mason partner lynched on day one), but he simply cannot be on the scum team logically (outside of faction change, which is considered bastard and this game is not bastard: QED he cannot be on the scum team). He

can

; however, be a third party.

So hopefully you take my advice and start actually playing mafia instead of trolling people. The choice is, ultimately, up to you.

Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm not mad. Just a bit frustrated at the number of times I get disrespected on this site.
Not sure what I did to deserve this, but I try to treat others with the same consideration and regard, as I would expect for myself IRL

Believe me too, if I were intentionally trolling, this is not how I would go about it. I really think Xtoxm is scum!

If people in all your games are "disrespecting" you ... does it seem more likely that we are all just terrible people who bully new people, or is it more likely that people are reacting to something you are doing? I'll be quite happy to quote all the things you've done in this particular game that have come across as you just trolling, if you like. I'm sure pretty much the entire player list would be willing to help you. Things get heated occasionally but for the most part the folks on this site would much rather show someone what they do that irritates people and help them become a better player than to chase people away. There are a few exceptions, but they are in the minority.

You cannot possibly believe that Xtoxm is scum given what we know. It's completely irrational. This would have to be a broken and/or bastard game for Xtoxm to be scum.

[Reasonably Rational]

@Drizzx

The set-up would not be broken by having your identity outed. Anaylzing scum strategy is also a dead end for me when it comes to deciding lynches.

I think it is pretty clear that by Xtoxm's posts, he is more likely to be scum.
Of course, he could be town and grapes could be scum, but I think it was you who said we should make decisions based on what is likely, and not what is unlikely.

If grapes was scum, the best argument is his hammer of fuzzy, but I don't buy into that being a contradiction. At worst it was staged, since there was obvious buildup.

You're right in that the setup wouldn't be broken by having our identity outed, but...trust me, the game has ELEGANCE. All those parts flowed together in a beautiful way, that's super awesome, and I can't imagine that it was arbitrary or just designed to fall apart deliberately, and that's just what outing who we are to scum prior to the grand D5 conftown reveal does. That's capricious and I don't believe for a second it's what happened. The only reason why we didn't end up destroying the whole plan accidentally is because WE GOT LUCKY and happened to lynch the exact scum who would have wrecked things right when they would have started wrecking them. You can't plan for town getting lucky, and you don't put together interlocking pieces like we have in this game and just smash them apart unless the town gets lucky.

Xtoxm could be third party. That's it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Cerb

Given the circumstances, the case on Grapes is relatively strong, just a little less so than xtoxm (for me personally). That is why this lylo is hard, because I am left with two scum reads, opposed to the 0-1 scumreads I usually have going into lylo.
If you can get Mastin2 in on the lynch, I would happily join.

What, exactly, is your case for Xtoxm as scum? We have actual evidence of Grapes as scum. Please make this case that you rate as stronger than the case against grapes. Go ahead and look at what I posted at the start of the day, because that's the cliff notes case against Grapes. Show me a case against Xtoxm that you believe is stronger than that. I would be ridiculously interested in seeing such a case from you.

Personally I was suspecting for myself to recieve more attention than both Grapes anhd Xtoxm coming into lylo.

Apparently you missed the part where a cop investigated you and said you were town?


~Drixx, obviously

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin2 wanted grapes lynched yesterday, and she will be on this. It's unfathomable that she wouldn't be. Xtoxm will be too, if for no other reason than survivalism. Also, game isn't lylo yet unless scum had a 6 member team.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

xtoxm, why must you do that and make us be all like qq what if you're scum now becuase you just denied us alliance making chances again? *sigh* constantine, target mastin if you're town please so she has a vote tomorrow.

[Reasonably Rational]

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

VOTE: St Constantine the Hermit

[Reasonably Rational]

I am really close to confirmed town. Mastin2 explains why in her ISO, and their are a couple of other reasons.

Seriously considering scum mastin2 now.

This is a laughably bad post. Mastin also said that she would do everything she could to prevent us getting the game to lynch sonic and swore up and down that he was town ... because Mastin puts too much faith in certain things, and not nearly enough faith in other things.

You are, by a wide margin, the most probable last scum (whether that be a member of the scum team or some other anti-town) and should have been lynched a long long long time ago. If it's actually necessary, we'll post extended thoughts on all three of you and the necessary assumptions on needs to make to conclude each of you are scum (here's a clue: Occam's Razor is not kind to you in that analysis).

We have no intention of voting for anyone other than you today, and since it takes 3 to lynch, that means you're getting lynched.

Your slot wanted to get us alone and wipe our powers on day 2. Your slot, if town, would have used the wipe ability once Tunnel Warriors claimed to have vigged you because a town player would realize that in a role madness game, scum powers will be vital to scum victory (and the powers we've seen slipped were all important to them) while the town had a ton of powers. A town you would have known that the odds were in your favor to hit a scum player in a 4 person alliance, and in fact the (assumed) odds would have increased after Tunnel Warriors got vigged by Ricastle (See: Monty Hall Problem). In hindsight we know if you had used the ability it would have indeed blanked a scum ... and that scum was the daytalk facilitator. It seems highly probable that the loss of daytalk as a consequence is the main reason you did not take that action.

You also retreated and lurked through the rest of the game, even going so far as to avoid alliances.

There's more, but suffice it to say that there is, by far, more reason to believe you are scum than to believe either Mastin or Xtoxm is.

Sort of amusing that you are trying to get us to vote for the person you tried to kill last night, though.

[Reasonably Rational]

Also explain why you are still alive, as conftown steven universe, for about 5 days now? The only player who would have any motivation to keep you alive as scum is Mastin2.

Present your case. There's an obvious reason why we're alive found in Titus' rant when she gave up, but you know ... if you want to appeal to us it will take logic and sound logic at that. Trying to tell us that you took no actions last night when we say you tried to kill Mastin is maybe the first thing you want to try and explain.

Oh, and we know why we're alive... MaxwellPuckett got lynched just before strong man would have been available to kill us.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'll humor you.

VOTE: unvote

Please show where Mastin was confirmed as "yellow diamond"

Love, Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay, good point.

Now is not the time to be stubborn though. I don't care if you think I am scum, but saying that you wont take your vote off me under any circumstances is what really worries me. The same one sidedness led us to mislynching Grapes.

Xtoxm (who I would be voting immediately were I actually scum) or Mastin2 have a 50% chance of being mafia from my perspective. Pretty sure Mastin2 and me were confirmed, and it wouldn't be unreasonable for Yellow Diamond to be a godfather, just saying.

Good point? What do you mean, good point? Are you referring to the strongman death right before he could haget killed us as a good point? Why is that a good point TO YOU.

I'm interested, masin in hearing what he has to say about either one of you, if for no other reason than being entertained.

Also, constantine, referencing grapes lynch as a defense of some sort is blatant fearmongering. Grapes made an objectively scummy play, AND contradicted himself in the same day, AND took a mislynch of leeway away from town. It would be absurd if his play were to occur and then he were to live to lylo.

Especially as a claimed miller.

Anyways, yesterday you wanted xtoxm lynched. Why? Did his decision to not vote you somehow sway you from your previously held position?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Still waiting Constantine, but not for much longer. It takes only moments to recall the truth, but an eternity to fabricate a fiction that will convince anyone.

1.) Why do you claim you didn't do anything last night when we already said we know you visited Mastin? If it wasn't a kill attempt, what were you doing?

2.) Please show us where in the game you and Mastin were "confirmed"; Special emphasis on the Mastin is "Yellow Diamond" please.

3.) Why does Godfather matter for anyone besides you, since you are the only person alive who has a claimed cop investigative on them?

Failure to address these questions will be viewed as admission of guilt. You could just save us a lot of time by giving up like Titus did when she realized she was caught and it was hopeless.

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, I forgot something:

4.) Why did you refuse to create an alliance with Mastin like we asked you to?


Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin is not a gem, or we would have fused with her. Instead we allied.

Want to talk some more about how she is probably a gem?

You didn't answer all our questions and your defense is the opposite of impressive.

[Reasonably Rational]

I shouldn't of listened and stayed on Grapes. We could of ended the day yesterday.

VOTE: Xtoxm

I buy that mastin2 is not scum. Even without method of deduction, xtoxm has a really scummy play which I have been pointing out the past couple of days.
Also, if you are going to defend Mastin2, at least accept that there are more reasons to townread me than her.

Xtoxm has 74 posts. Please present your case. Saying someone is scummy isn't going to convince us. Show us what you believe we missed.

Furthermore; there is precisely one reason to townread you: a claimed innocent result from a slot that was lurking, got replaced, claimed cop and gave the innocent and then was killed and apparently janitored. You already pointed out that Godfather is a reasonable assumption, so you have already undermined the only reason to town read you.

But again, since we are humoring you, please tell us why you should be town read. Please refer only to

your

posts and actions. We don't care what anyone else said at some other point in the game. Show us from your pool of posts and actions why you should be townread.

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah, I'm done being played around with. The joke isn't that funny.

It's on you RR. If you think I am scum, then vote me so we can get this over with. I already know where this is going.

You say that Xtoxm is scummy. We're asking you to show us why.

We have already had our say to Xtoxm about how his low level of interaction with the game has left us very little by which to read him. But unless you can produce something we missed, there are things that make him unlikely to be a member of the group of scum which we have thus far seen flips for.

• Firstly; Titus rolecopped Xtoxm at our request. If he were third party, she certainly would have told us to gain credibility with us. Instead, she reacted with violent outrage that we asked her to "waste" her rolecop just to confirm that Xtoxm was what we already knew him to be. This was before we gave any indication whatsoever that we mistrusted them, and there is nothing at all that reads as non genuine about the reaction. If Xtoxm were part of the group, he would have told them what he claimed to us, and she could have easily relayed that to us without any emotional outburst, thereby "confirming" Xtoxm as having claimed honestly to us.
  
• Secondly; Xtoxm is logically not scum for the same reason that Mastin is, which we covered when we caught Titus' slip. Mastin and Xtoxm were given our identity on day three. We were confirmed to them, but they were not confirmed to us. If either were scum, then that means the game was designed such that, apart from sheer luck, whomever got the Steven role would die on night 4. So to argue Xtoxm as scum, you are basically arguing that Varsoon is
  really
  bad at designing mafia games.

Despite the above; we are actually quite interested in any case you might have. If you are actually town and have found something in Xtoxm's play or words that we missed ... you have the obligation to show us what we missed.

[Reasonably Rational]

^

The above was Drixx.

Thirdly; TW, upon discovering that xtoxm and mastin's roles were "identical" to her, save for a modifier, attempted to convince us that one of Mastin or xtoxm HAD to be scum, and thus we should lynch them to find the scum that must be within that set.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah, I'm done being played around with. The joke isn't that funny.

It's on you RR. If you think I am scum, then vote me so we can get this over with. I already know where this is going.

The post below was us genuinely asking you to show us where Xtoxm looks scummy. There were only 74 (mostly very short) posts to go through, so that wasn't a difficult request.

And if you feel like you should be town read, it is incumbent upon you to show why we should read you as town, based upon what

you

have said and done. If you are town, you are obligated to play to your win condition, and you should be able to go through 74 posts to put a scum case that you have been pushing for weeks together very quickly, and you should be able to point out how you helped town with your actions and words.

So, if you turn out to be town, I'm going to argue that you played against win con. We gave you the time and practically begged you to show us what we missed in 74 posts that makes Xtoxm scum instead of you. You just refused to do it, which is super anti-town.

I shouldn't of listened and stayed on Grapes. We could of ended the day yesterday.

VOTE: Xtoxm

I buy that mastin2 is not scum. Even without method of deduction, xtoxm has a really scummy play which I have been pointing out the past couple of days.
Also, if you are going to defend Mastin2, at least accept that there are more reasons to townread me than her.

Xtoxm has 74 posts. Please present your case. Saying someone is scummy isn't going to convince us. Show us what you believe we missed.

Furthermore; there is precisely one reason to townread you: a claimed innocent result from a slot that was lurking, got replaced, claimed cop and gave the innocent and then was killed and apparently janitored. You already pointed out that Godfather is a reasonable assumption, so you have already undermined the only reason to town read you.

But again, since we are humoring you, please tell us why you should be town read. Please refer only to

your

posts and actions. We don't care what anyone else said at some other point in the game. Show us from your pool of posts and actions why you should be townread.

Quoted this just for posterity. We combed through the game looking for reasons to posit Mastin and Xtoxm as scum. We talked through what assumptions needed to be made for each of them to be scum, as well as what evidence for and against those assumptions existed. We also evaluated you in the same way. Even so we took the vote off you and gave you all the time you wanted and just asked you to make your case for who was scum and make your case for you being town.

You can't blame us for your refusal. We said we would take your refusal to answer our questions as your admission of guilt.

VOTE: St. Constantine the Hermit <---

This vote will not be changing. Xtoxm and Mastin: please just vote and be done with it one way or another. This particular situation, which we assume is MYLO, does not afford us the luxury of a no lynch because we cannot guarantee that Mastin would have a vote tomorrow, while she does today.

@All - It has been a fun game with a lot of ups and downs. It was enjoyable to play with you all. Thanks, and I'm sure I speak for both Cerberus and myself when I say we invite any advice on improving our play.


Love, with warm milk and cookies,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

It's paranoia all the way around Mastin. Godfather paranoia, or "masonry" paranoia. It just happens that the godfather paranoia is supprted by more than the "masonry" paranoia, although that's more by virtue of lack of content from xtoxms slot than anything else.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hi. Are you just not going to vote today xtoxm? Is there something more you want to discuss?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It's not even lack of content (although having so few posts makes it really hard to have a firm read on someone). Early on Xtoxm was critical of scum who weren't yet being scumread by others. In hindsight that's either fantastic or a huge reason to worry. Unfortunately, when I told him to start talking or face the noose, he was offended. I really do wish he would look from our perspective: everyone is looking to the IC to decide, and we are combing through everything trying to make the right decision, and we read his ISO and he was questioning MP before anyone else was seriously on it, and he was questioning TW before we caught the slip, and then just kind of goes into prodge mode after that.

The question has been, all along, whether that was a low quantity, high quality town poster who was onto scum before anyone else, or whether that was scum who was putting posts in place for later cred. Logically it is much more likely to be the first, which is what we concluded, although it seemed quite fair to give SCtH some rope and let him actually do something and make a case rather than a bunch of "no don't look behind that curtain. There's nothing important there." theatrics, and he apparently decided to fashion a noose and put his own head in.

What's confusing is that Xtoxm showed up, and had the opportunity to hammer, and didn't. Why?

1.) If he's scum and hoodwinked us ... then hammer and savor the victory.
2.) If he's town ... what's the deal?
3.) If he's neutral ... does he have something he needs to do before the game ends?

I've kind of exhausted the what ifs ... so what's up Xtoxm?


With much Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

So wait ... when you just know you just know, but you can't tell anymore? It's either clear connection and you could show it to us, or it's not. You're contradicting yourself.

If Xtoxm is scum, why is the game still going on?

Also ... why did you want us to be the ones to hammer you way back earlier in the game? Just kind of curious here at the turning of the days ... as one might say.


Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Hold on, what did Mastin2 claim flavor

Mastin claimed Connie, and we are currently allied to her. If she were a gem, we would have fused. It defeats the whole idea that Mastin is "Yellow Diamond". It was interesting that you specifically accused her of being that, by the way. We know for sure she isn't because we didn't fuse ... but Yellow Diamond is the leader of the Yellow Diamond Authority, who appear to be the scum team here ... but nobody besides you has ever referred to that specific character, and in the show it hasn't yet been revealed fully.

It's like I said earlier. We gave you rope and asked you to put the right person's head in it. You refused to show us the "obvious" link between Xtoxm and Titus or anything scummy at all about him. You refused to show us, from your own posts and actions, why you should be considered town.

And now you're hurling insults about how us new (to this site, and therefore inferior to people with earlier join dates apparently) people are just too stupid to realize that Xtoxm is scum. But wait, it

might

be Mastin. You're not sure anymore. If you're going to insult us, at least don't insult yourself at the same time... it sort of takes the bite out of it.

We knew long before this day started that there was no way to be 100% certain and due to an unfortunate misplay by a fellow townie, we don't have the luxury of a spare mislynch to get it right. That spare mislynch got wasted on someone we had logically put at 99.9% confirmed town (and lo and behold they flipped town, lol).

Anyway ... asked you some questions ... you gonna answer? It wasn't hard ... why did you want

US

to be the ones to hammer you earlier in the game?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

Anyway ... asked you some questions ... you gonna answer? It wasn't hard ... why did you want US to be the ones to hammer you earlier in the game?

If I had some sort of plan, you could of just ruined it.

Mylo Tips to live by

The fact that a super saint already flipped makes any plan you may have had meaningless. If you're vengeful, it doesn't matter who hammered you. Of course, there are other penalties for hammering you that could exist, but those are the obvious ones, and you decreased the odds of someone else hammering you simply by suggesting that you'd hammer yourself.

In the position we're in, it seems more likely that the not so subtle threat of asking for a specific person to hammer you was simply something meant to discourage anyone from lynching you.

-Cerb

Pedit: constantine claimed pet centipeedle, as we've said repeatedly. A bit character from a single episode, as much as your own claim is.

[Reasonably Rational]

If she were a gem, we would have fused.

I mean, in the show, connie was able to fuse with steven.

What did xtoxm claim?

Xtoxm's claim is in the main thread and since he has only 75 or 76 posts you should easily be able to find that on your own.

Believe me ... we can make a case against all three of you. The thing is, it only takes one assumption to put you at likely scum (some form of investigation immunity OR KlinconCelt reporting the wrong target as innocent), while it takes a series of assumptions for each of them to be scum, including the assumption that Varsoon would design a game where the central character is an IC, but the scum team will know his identity and be able to kill him before he can trigger his IC, unless sheer dumb luck intervenes. That's a really difficult assumption to swallow, all on its own, never mind the rest of the assumptions necessary in their individual cases. The assumption necessary for you to be scum is one that is so easy to accept, you yourself pointed it out.

Still waiting for you to answer about the Yellow Diamond thing.

Also, we noticed you wanted us to hammer you way back on day 2. It's the sort of thing that sticks out like a sore thumb. There's absolutely no way that anyone alive missed it since, you know, we're in a permanent neighborhood with them and asked what they thought about it. You gain nothing by trying to be secretive. If you are town, now is the time to be crystal clear. Self defeating insults and obfuscation and flailing just make you look more scummy.

~Drixx

P-Edit - I see Cerb posted. Xtoxm claimed Pet Centipeedle both to us and in the game thread.

P-Edit 2 - *sigh* I'll just shut up and let you two talk.

[Reasonably Rational]

Why do you think I am insulting you Drixx? I am perfectly calm and rational, having accepted my fate.

If Xtoxm fake claimed, you guys should be able to fuse with him tonight if we VTNL. It isn't lylo, I say we use the extra night.

There's an implied insult in any statement that says your experiences are so unique that we can't possibly comprehend what you see. It indicates that we lack either the empathy or the intelligence to draw parallels to our own experiences in order to allow us to comprehend your points. That's the insult. It's an easy one to give unintentionally, but if you're as careful with words as Drixx is, it's hard to miss.

And, well, go read the bold in drixx's post where we voted you. That's why there isn't an extra night.

Also, well, you didn't address the whole fact that your scenario requires that scum be given knowledge of who we were on D3, contrary to the way all the pieces of the game seemed to work together.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, I can't really control what he does.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Then I guess we are waiting

Although this means nothing until after my flip, town lost this game.

The logic that clears Mastin and Xtoxm led directly to TrenchWarfare and Sonic being lynched, as well as led to fuzzy being logically cleared as town (which was shown to be true when grapes bizarrely lynched in a ridiculously scummy way, contradicting himself and forcing us to lynch him afterward). That logic has been spot on in every case so far.

You are welcome to show us how it can be right for those things but somehow wrong. I have literally gotten to my knees and begged you to make the case against Xtoxm. His ISO is not some gigantic unweildy thing where what I'm asking would be a bunch of hours of work. You should be able to make that case easily if you really believe it.

I begged you to show us where your words and actions make you a town read, and you declined to even try.

You refuse to do anything we would expect town to do in your place and have done everything scum routinely do in your place. Appeal to Fear and Appeal to Emotion aren't going to work.

The ball, as they say, is in your court.


Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

UNVOTE:

Please constantine, just take some time and give us some actual concrete reasons why you're thinking what you are about the game.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

There is no tomorrow, because we cannot ensure that Mastin will have a vote tomorrow.

Scum weren't able to lynch Mastin on day 3 because we spoke up and outed ourselves. You actually offered to fake claim as Steven, if I recall, which is to your credit here at the end game.

TW declared with certainty that we are bulletproof, because we declared with certainty that the only way we would have been able to be killed was via strongman. We are quite certain that TW didn't role cop us, or the actual nature of what we do and why a strongman was all that could have killed us would have been know to the scum team.

Vezok was confirmed town, so he makes perfect sense for an extra kill that can only target someone known to be human. He very clearly claimed to be Sadie with Beer being Lars. They were mod confirmed masons with each other.

Why do you assume that a kill was withheld last night? Does no other possibility come to mind, given that we asked SCtH why he tried to kill Mastin last night?

[Reasonably Rational]

VOTE: Constantine

[Reasonably Rational]

He did put an explanation in there. He saw the same setup elegance and logic that we saw, which helped us be sure we had caught TW in a slip, and to be sure that Sonic was the only possible link where that info could have come from, and to clear Fuzzy as town when

everyone

thought he was scum. That logical progression of high probability, near certainties really, is nearly impossible to go against once you see it. That's why we voted you in the end.

To be very fair, I did practically beg you to do something townie, and you just looked like scum all day phase. I guess we wait now and see.

Love,
Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

For those who played, we've asked that our Hydra PT be open to you, so you can see the process Cerberus and I use evaluating the game. There may be some non pertinent stuff in there as we talk about a lot of things in IRC and not just games, but he did a pretty good job scrubbing the conversations of any non-game stuff. I tend to be very unguarded when speaking with him, so you may see my snark out in full force at some points.

If anything offends you, please realize that I would never intentionally or knowingly go after someone on this site to hurt them. Cerb and I have been friends for years and I kind of just don't have any real censor when I'm talking to him.

Varsoon found the updates every time Cerberus would update the thread with a new dump of conversation to be quite interesting/entertaining. I hope you all will find some insight there. Hopefully you'll find a bit of our humour and laugh a bit if you read through there.

I believe we plan to do the same for every game we hydra (although the next time it will be my job to archive our chat), and we've already signed up for the next game to hydra together, so anyone who finds that interesting or wants to play with Reasonably Rational again ... check our main identities out for the game we just signed up for.

*drops the mic*

That felt awkward.

Love,
Drixx

P.S. - I was buying time for the final conversations to get posted and Cerb already voted, lol.

[Reasonably Rational]

Hey, varsoon, when you get here just let us know if we won or lost, then give us some flavor! :p

[Reasonably Rational]

....are you fucking serious. Fuck you scum team. Seriously. Three fucking games on this stupid site and everybody wants their fucking scum pt kept private. Fuck all of you.