Mini-Normal 1713: Mystery Mansion Mafia (GAME OVER)

[absta101]

/confirm

[absta101]

VOTE: Davsto
For being a douche.

[absta101]

I'm actually mafia

I used my investigative skills to decipher your alignment.

I can sheep this.
VOTE: Accountant

[absta101]

Performer's RQS is pretty much null; i've seen town do it many times.

[absta101]

@Expedience

Slandaar is practically confirmed Town, no scum would pull such an obscene gambit.

Why wouldn't he do it as scum?

Wanderer stated that Slandaar plays like this as town so he could just be acting 'consistently'. I don't see the risk/gambit in what he did.
--

@Silverwolf

- Same question as above.

[absta101]

@Slandaar

I would lynch wanderer or at least look at her, I don't see how you can read my tone in such a small number of posts, especially when the posts I had made were not my normal tone

Why aren't you voting Wanderer then?
--

Out of everything i've seen so far, Accountant comes out looking the most scummy. Her vote on Performer is backed with an extremely weak reason and she has only mentioned him once when she was defending him in post 59.

I think Akarin's analysis pretty much hit the nail on the head as well.

I don't see why she didn't vote SilverWolf instead considering she said this and she also stated that SW could be buddying (Akarin's analysis consists of her calling SW scum in post 67).

[absta101]

@Mario

I don't feel like voting any of you at the moment, instead, I shall just let you all know that I am town. I obviously wouldn't lie to you good people so this effectively makes me confirmed town! If only every townie was as clever as me and had thought of this great way to confirm themselves the game would be so easy!

VOTE: Slandaar

Trying to scumread an extremely obvious joke.

Accountant is clearly also joking with that vote.

Performer's vote on Slandaar looks like the only serious one.

[absta101]

I don't see post 26 as clearly a joke. 28 coming after it makes it a joke though.

I posted my response to Mario after he would have already seen post 28. Also, I don't see why he wouldn't read post 28 before making his point about post 26 seeing as they are quite close.
--

@Mario

1. Trying to appear newb by saying she hasn't completed a game on this site.

How would town-Accountant have responded to that question as town?

2. Her story about ToS seems like trying to make excuses for wrong reads.

Explain this please.

[absta101]

VOTE: Mario
This is better for now. His vote is opportunistic.

[absta101]

@Accountant

- Why didn't you give the 'full answer' in your original response?

[absta101]

absta: I did not think it was particularly relevant. I moved here from Salem as I wanted to put those forums behind me.

You didn't think it was relevant even though he essentially asked you to state your experience in any fm game you've played. Why didn't you say something like "nothing stands out" or just skip the question?

[absta101]

@Mario

- Can you explain your point 2 like I asked in 133

[absta101]

@Mario

If she pushes some mislynches she can point to that and say "look, I'm not a good player. I'm not scum for pushing these mislynches."

Where does she say she isn't a good player?

Can you link these?

I really don't want to have to go find them. I just remember seeing town players do RQS, especially newer players.
Also, I want to make it clear that the meta point I mentioned isn't the main reason for my null-read of his RQS. It's mainly because I don't see any compelling scum or town motivations for what he did.

[absta101]

@Mario

I never said she DID, I said she COULD.

That's not what i'm getting at. You said in point 2 that she is trying to make excuses for wrong reads with her ToS (town or scum, i'm guessing). You then explained in post 148 that she could push a mislynch and then later state that she isn't a good player like she already 'told us'.

What i'm asking is, where does she say that she isn't a good player in her original response to Performers RQS? All I see is her saying that she is a better scum player, this does not mean she is a bad town player.

[absta101]

@performer

Personally can't decipher who's really town or mafia right now.

There's definitely been enough content to at least get a weak read on people. The fact that you don't have any reads at this stage is suspicious.

What do you think of Accountant and Mario?

[absta101]

@Akarin

but acting like Accountant and Slandaar were clearly town (rather than not particularly scummy) doesn't read like actually trying to figure out alignment.

How does SilverWolf saying "prob not scum" translate to her thinking they are clearly town?
--

@Performer

Since more time has passed and they happened to post more, it seems to be they're both town

( I could be wrong, they could be third party or mafia)

I don't like the bolded. It goes without saying that you could be wrong, anyone can be wrong. You feeling the need to state it seems like you want to have an excuse for when you feel like changing reads.

Do you still have no scum reads?

[absta101]

but it nevertheless makes him lean scum for me. I support the wagon against him.

Don't really feel like voting, I haven't played a game on this site with this many players so I'll wait a bit to see how it works out. I'll remove my RVS vote from Accountant though.

I agree with Silverwolf; this is really scummy. Town-Expedience would've definitely voted Mario here seeing as he was a scum read and he supported the wagon. However he doesn't because he wants to see how it works out. That's bullshit imo. Chances are he is scum who is afraid of committing to a read. This is backed up by the fact that he only votes Mario after he was told it was weird of him not to.

VOTE: Expedience
Still leaning scum on Mario, Accountant and Performer.

[absta101]

@Accountant

- Can you answer my question in 146 please.

[absta101]

@Expedition

Of course I made that vote to appease them! Is there anything wrong with this?

By voting, I showed that I wasn't afraid of voting for Mario

like Accountant and Wanderer implied that I was.

The point is, you were afraid of how it would look like if you jumped onto the wagon and so you wanted to wait and see how people react to your support (from a distance) of it. After Wanderer and Accountant told you it was suspicious of you not to vote him considering you think he is scummy, you conceded and voted for him. This is incredibly scummy.

You say that you wasn't afraid of voting but you said this when you voted him.

Yes, I see what you mean.

I was more afraid of breaching some kind of different voting etiquette because there are more scum with capacity to quickhammer

. But on day 1 and with this few votes on Mario that wasn't particularly thoughtful of me.

You're asking us to believe that you were genuinely afraid that scum would quick-hammer and frankly, that's not believable.

Also, if you are scum reading him, why would his scum buddies quick-hammer anyway?

[absta101]

You need to proof read post 254 Davsto. Some quotes aren't working.

[absta101]

@Expedience

If I didn't want to vote for Mario because I was scum trying not to commit to an opinion, why wouldn't I have just not voted for Mario and left out the whole "unsure to vote" part?

You had to say that you were unsure, otherwise there wouldn't have been any 'excuse' for you to not vote him considering you just called him scummy in some detail and you unvoted someone else.

[absta101]

I have a question for Grayfoxxxx, and that is I want him to claim. Now.

VOTE: Grayfoxxxx

All will be revealed once he does. If he gives the answer I expect, I've found scum.

VOTE: GreyFoxxxx

I'll support this for now.

[absta101]

@GrayFox

Sure. SW and wanderer are my top 2 scum picks.

These are your top two scum picks but what i'm finding hard to believe is that Davsto is not in your top scum reads as well, considering you said this:

Pedit:holy shit well I guess I was doc protected. Unless Dav lying.

Do you believe that it is more likely that you were protected or that Davsto is lying?
If the former, why would the Doctor protect you?

[absta101]

In terms of what has happened. I find it unlikely that scum-Davsto would do this as a gambit so chances are he's town.

I'm still not sure on GrayFox, his play on day 1 was definitely scummy. The fact that he kept avoiding the game with reasons such as "analysis still formating" is obviously bullshit. I don't see the town motivation for playing like that (town-GrayFox could've easily replaced out if he didn't want to play) but there are clear scum motivations for it.

Regarding Davsto's claim on GrayFox, i'm not completely sure on it yet. GrayFox/Davsto could've been in Jail or Davsto could've been Role-blocked. I find it highly unlikely that a Doctor would protect GrayFox though.

[absta101]

@Akarin

No idea what the vote count is, but Foxxxxy is my preferred lynch at the moment.

You've been calling GrayFox and Wanderer scummy, yet you aren't voting either of them. Why is that?

[absta101]

@Wanderer

Also, would I want to kill the one person who was scumreading me? That seems stupid, but oh well.

Precisely because he is the only person scum reading you... You could easily point to WIFOM and potentially get away with no suspicion.

But then Expedience posted a lot and scum would minimize associations so

when I saw those posts by Expedience I was ready to unvote

, only to realize the thread was locked because Davsto hammered 2 freaking minutes after Expedience's claim.

You wasn't voting for him so you couldn't have unvoted and stopped the hammer. I mean, you stated intent to hammer yourself, you only do that if you aren't already voting the person.

Also, your reason for calling him town is weak. I don't see how Expedience posting a lot when he was L-1 is enough to turn your scum read of him into a town read. You stated intent to hammer because you were afraid Davsto wouldn't hammer. That's how strong your scum read of Expedience was.

[absta101]

@Performer

Sounds to me like you're trying to misrepresent me for genuine scumhunting.

I still haven't seen you scumhunt at all actually. Who do you think is scum now and why aren't you voting them?
--

Why are there so many people not voting?? We've had everything from Day 1 and a lot from day 2 so I don't see why everyone is just holding their cards.

[absta101]

@Wanderer

Awesome. Thanks for explaining how to play as scum.

You tried to disregard the notion of you as scum killing the only person who scum read you. I simply stated that it isn't a stupid scum move. It's a fine strategy to take considering there wasn't any strong players that needed to be killed by scum.

And no, that's how strong my scumread on Davsto was.

Wait what? You only stated intent to hammer because Davsto is your scum read. I don't understand why you had to state intent because of that. It seems more likely that you would state intent to hammer someone because they are a strong enough scum read to warrant being lynched by you. Can you explain what you mean here?

[absta101]

It was already pretty clear to me. What's weird to me now is that you reworded that part of your post but needed to be asked to clean up the rest of it. Makes me think your priorities are with looking town, not scumhunting.

This is the only time she hinted a scum read on Davsto (before the hammer) and it doesn't sound as strong as she says it was.

VOTE: Wanderer
This is better for now.

[absta101]

VOTE: Wanderer-nl

Nice ninja.

[absta101]

See how quickly that wagon on Grayfoxxx disappeared?
Don't any of you find it suspicious?

No... It was only you and me voting him. I'm not even sure if you can call that a wagon and even if you could, it was only me that moved off it (and hence why it disappeared "quickly").

[absta101]

See how quickly that wagon on Grayfoxxx disappeared?
Don't any of you find it suspicious?

No... It was only you and me voting him. I'm not even sure if you can call that a wagon and even if you could, it was only me that moved off it (and hence why it disappeared "quickly").

Scratch that, Davsto was voting as well. Still, It's only two votes that moved off it.

[absta101]

@Wanderer

I was drunk when I made this post.
I stated intent to hammer because I was scumreading Expedience. I was also scumreading Davsto and mistakenly thought we were much closer to DL. I was afraid Davsto wouldn't hammer. Which was stupid, I realize that now. My scumread on Davsto grew stronger when I saw his hammer.

In that case, what I said originally still stands. Your reason for having a 180 on your scum read of Expedience makes no sense. How can him simply 'posting a lot' change your read on him being scum into town? Considering your read of him was strong enough that you wanted to lynch him (stated intent to hammer).

There was a wagon on Expedience, whom I was also scumreading, so it was of little use to emphasize my scumread on Davsto.

If you really scum read both of them, why weren't you voting one of them? This makes no sense.
Of course you should've emphasized your scum read of Davsto, hell you should've been voting him if you didn't want to be on the Expedience wagon.

[absta101]

I already explained that. Why state intent to hammer if you're not going to believe the claim anyway.

What makes you think he decided he wasn't going to believe the claim? Couldn't he have read the claim and genuinely not believed it? I mean, you're the only one I see saying his claim was enough to have him as a town read.

[absta101]

@Mario

ChannelDelibird seems somewhat town.

Why is he so low on your list then?
Can you explain what each colour means please.

[absta101]

@Wanderer

Also there are a lot of inconsistencies by now in my iso so

I agree I need to be lynched

This is a scummy mindset. Out of everyone alive in this game, you are the only confirmed town from your perspective. There should never be a case where you want to lynch yourself because of inconsistencies if you are town.

[absta101]

UNVOTE:
Alright, i'll let you guys catch up.

[absta101]

Also, for a record, presuming 3 scum,

there is a good chance we'll be mylo tomorrow.

Please keep that in mind.

Even more of a reason town-Wanderer wouldn't be fine with her lynch. Although, there is a chance that she didn't think that far ahead.

[absta101]

This is what I thought would happen after we gave Gray and Akarin more time. They have literally just stalled the day. Other than Performer/Wanderer still looking scummy there isn't anything interesting that's happened.

Out of the people that are actually posting, Wanderer and Performer are the scummiest. Wanderer's excuses for her play (being drunk or having a cold) could be true but I see them as null seeing as she could easily just say those things as scum. Therefore, we can still only get a valid scum/town read from her earlier plays. I still think she is scum with inconsistencies as evidence of her disingenuous play.

I agree with the wagon on Performer; his reads have been extremely weak. It's obvious that he is trying to avoid committing to reads (He only seems to give reads whenever I call him out on it since the start of Day 1). You can tell he is on the fence a lot, it's supported by the fact that he hasn't used his vote anywhere close to how much an actual townie would/should.
--

@Wanderer

- Can you answer my question in #486 please.

[absta101]

I agree with SilverWolf on Gray. If he is town, he is a player scum would definitely want in Lylo and therefore he probably won't get lynched/Nk'd on scum's behalf. Also, i'd be suspicious of anyone that has had a town read on him with weak reasoning (that is, if Gray turns out to be town; chances are he isn't). Obviously if he is scum, we should kill him anyway.

I would lynch any of Wanderer/Performer/GrayFox but I prefer the former two atm.

[absta101]

@Wanderer

I don't agree you can only read me on my earlier posts, I made a lot of new ones too.

I agree.

To be clear, I meant that we can't read you based on those excuses and only on earlier plays and of course new plays that don't consists of you bringing up excuses.

But I am bothered by Performer as well, and I'm a little surprised you haven't addressed that.

What do you mean?
Please take into account that I don't consider associations between players until we get a flip from at least one of them (preferably a scum flip). For all I know you two could be bussing because of your close encounter with the noose.

I responded to that in 491

I don't see answers to the first two questions regarding your read on Davsto. Here is what i'm asking:

What makes you think he decided he wasn't going to believe the claim? Couldn't he have read the claim and genuinely not believed it?

[absta101]

You can check my towngames for it but I don't really throw my vote around easily so I don't use that as a scumtell.

It's not just the fact that he isn't using his vote, it's that he doesn't show ANY interest in finding scum. He is just in the background letting everyone else do the work. When I asked Performer to give reads in Day 1 he said something about not having any scum reads which just seems like bullshit to me. I don't see how it's hard for town to have scum reads. When you are town you have a certain amount of suspicion, something which Performer isn't showing at all imo.

[absta101]

@Mario

- Can you answer my question in #487 please.

[absta101]

Shouldn't this actually make me less scummy than Performer? Or does my one inconsistency weigh that heavy?

I'm more confident in my read of you as scum but if Performer was at L-1 I would gladly lynch him. My read on Performer is sort of similar to my read of GrayFox, there is a chance he could be town who just doesn't give a shit but it seems unlikely at this point.

[absta101]

@absta: I meant that I wanted to know where you stand on my scumread of Performer since you seem to have one too.

Like I said, it's null until a flip. How would I get a read based on your scum read of Performer?

(Apologies for the multi posts)

[absta101]

@Wanderer

- I don't see what you don't understand with what i'm saying. I'm telling you that your scum read on Performer doesn't mean anything to me even if I consider that I have a scum read on him as well. Just because we agree on him being scum doesn't make you look town.

Performer is scum; he's always having the wagonee as biggest scumread.

This is your reason for voting him. I haven't checked if it's true but I doubt you would lie about something that anyone could easily check and call you out on. I don't see any (net) scum motivation or town motivation in this; the read isn't something I haven't talked about before. I've been scum reading Performer since day 1. I'd generally only town read you if you have similar thoughts about something I haven't spoken about before. That would at least show we have similar mindsets (by hopefully ruling out buddying) and so you would likely be town. It's not a strong tell but I like to use it.

There are no questions I would like you ask you about this quote atm.

I'm still happy with my vote on Performer. His thoughts seem to conflict with each other.

Yeah I agree but I feel it's still null coming from you. This could be a genuine read or you could be scum bussing a partner, I don't know. If you had posted this before you got close to your demise then I might've seen this as town.

Again, no questions for this atm.

Town doesn't kill, right? Shouldn't it be that scum perceived him to become a threat?

This is actually a good find. I didn't notice this beforehand. Possible scum slip by Performer.
+town points for you.

[absta101]

@SilverWolf

No, and that worries me but I'm leaning against wanderer being scum due to her latest postings

When you say "leaning against" do you mean Wanderer is less of a scum read or has she become a slight town read? What about her recent play makes you think this?

It could be that one of the VTs is lying but I really don't want anyone else run up to a claim because all this does is help scum at this point. I'd actually like to lynch one of the VT claims for this reason alone.

Considering you said this earlier, your read on Performer must be pretty strong for you to take this risk and lynch him. But then you say:

So, Performer it is then. At least IMO.

I'm open to other ideas.

It doesn't exactly sound so strong of a read.

[absta101]

I don't think we should lynch until the replacement has caught up. Also, the number of wagons here is fine considering how much time we have left. It might even be better if we just narrow down the wagons into Performer and Wanderer/GrayFox.

VOTE: Performer
This is more likely than Wanderer-lynch atm.
--

@CDB

- Why aren't you voting one of Gray/Wanderer/Performer? I think you've had plenty of time at this stage to make a decision.

[absta101]

Voting SW at this stage is completely useless and anti-town. Just vote Performer or Wanderer.

[absta101]

Just a quick post.

@SW

- Are you saying that Gray wasn't a scum read at all? I don't see why you investigated Mario instead of him considering you had Mario as a town read (iirc).

I'm not sure what to think of your claim but consider my vote on Mario for now. He was acting scummy from day 1 so its not hard to believe that he is scum.
--

I'm VT.

[absta101]

Yeah, That makes sense and goes along with absta's surprise that I would check Mario since I was town reading him.

Well this situation doesn't make sense. I know i'm town so either you are lying or All alone/Wanderer is scum with Mario. If the former then well played, I don't see myself getting out of this miss lynch.

Wanderer might be confirmed town regardless of SW's alignment. If SW is scum, she would have to get a fake guilty on her scum partner or we would lynch her the next day for lying (therefore Mario is scum). If she is town then she has an innocent read on Wanderer and a guilty on Mario.

There could also be a mafia godfather. I'm not sure on that but it would make sense considering how many PRs we have in town. If this is the case then Wanderer is not confirmed town.

Now for the motivation for SW-scum to pull off this gambit. It has become apparent that Octopus was targeted by scum at night. This would only make sense coming from Mario or Wanderer considering he had them two as his biggest scum reads. Considering Wanderer was the first to vote Performer on the day he got lynched (amongst other reasons pointing to her being town) and the associative tells between Mario and Performer, I don't think SW-scum would have the confidence to push Wanderer as scum over Mario. SW wouldn't just keep quiet about this either, her chances of getting lynched after Mario was quite high.

*The way she jumped on the Performer wagon and then quickly came back off it after I pointed out her inconsistencies with that play is actually quite scummy.

Also, she hammered Performer really quickly after the intent. This doesn't show any uncertainty in her read of Performer which actually makes no sense considering her scum read on Performer was weak.

*This is what i'm referring to:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Performer

He reads as scum per ISO. I feel we are most likely to hit scum with this lynch.

@SilverWolf

No, and that worries me but I'm leaning against wanderer being scum due to her latest postings

When you say "leaning against" do you mean Wanderer is less of a scum read or has she become a slight town read? What about her recent play makes you think this?

It could be that one of the VTs is lying but I really don't want anyone else run up to a claim because all this does is help scum at this point. I'd actually like to lynch one of the VT claims for this reason alone.

Considering you said this earlier, your read on Performer must be pretty strong for you to take this risk and lynch him. But then you say:

So, Performer it is then. At least IMO.

I'm open to other ideas.

It doesn't exactly sound so strong of a read.

grrrrrr...................grayfoxxxx is posting elsewhere and hasn't done jack shit here despite promising several times. Fuck that shit.

Contribute or die.

VOTE: grayfoxxxx

After SW has gotten Mario lynched today, she would most likely kill Davsto at night seeing as he is confirmed town regardless. That would leave her at 1 vs 4 town tomorrow. SW would then obviously use the WIFOM defence as her reason for still being alive and she'd be right to. SW being alive tomorrow is a null tell but it might clear some players. I'm going to think about that some more but the most obvious person that wouldn't mind her being alive is the Godfather. If there is a godfather, all the town innocent reads from town-SW mean nothing. Anyway, after this, SW scum will call an innocent on me/All alone and lynch the other. She would then kill someone at night leaving her at 1 v 2.

This play is actually way better then just sitting quietly today and hoping she doesn't get lynched tomorrow. Claiming cop tomorrow isn't nearly as good as doing it today. Seeing as Mario was the most likely lynch candidate today, she wouldn't have gotten the town credit if she claimed cop tomorrow (due to her not being able to call a guilty on Mario).
--

Lynch Mario today for sure, he is pretty much confirmed scum. I need to go back and see who else looks like they could be partners with Mario/Performer. Right now SW is the most likely but there could easily be some GodFather.

[absta101]

Why did you claim?

Not sure why scum Performer would claim VT because it increases the chance of your lynch.

This is what she was saying to Performer. This could easily be SW showing her frustration that Performer didn't claim a PR role like he should have. She is also using this as a slight defence of Performer.

Really Octupus. You don't think Gray or Performer should make it to lylo but you want Wanderer lynched instead, which would likely put us in mylo if she's town. Makes no sense to me.

You must really believe she's scum or you are scum with Gray and Performer.

I don't get all this resistance to a Gray lynch. He's awfully eager to lynch Performer.

Could be looking for that towncred if Performer is his buddy going down anyway.

This accusation on Octopus is complete bullshit actually. There absolutely no reason for her to even mention the possibility of Octopus-Performer scum team (just because he was voting Wanderer instead). This looks forced, as if she knows Performer will flip scum and she wants to already start pointing out associations for later use. She does the exact same thing with GrayFox as well.

[absta101]

@SW

Also, A lot of my play yesterday was me trying to avoid being too town so I wasn't NK'd. If you are wondering about crumbs here ya go:

From 401

First, Davsto is town.

This isn't believable at all. If you actually read the whole post, it doesn't look like a crumb at all. You don't have to be a cop with a town result on Davsto to say this:

First, Davsto is town. There is just no way in hell scum would start D2 off with a fakeclaim of vig and to claim being blocked and then to to go after grayfoxxxx of all people. I think the early claim and the eagerness in it, thinking he could get us a scum, was very townie.

How does this suggest that you are a town cop?

I'm not even going to discuss the other crumb you mentioned regarding "your role pm".

[absta101]

WTF?
I'm a 2-shot Commuter.
I commuted last night, but still have a commute.

So you are asking us to believe that town has a JK, 1-shot Vig, normal Cop and a 2-shot Commuter. Also, why aren't you voting SW? She has a guilty claim on you...

[absta101]

If SW is town, one of the scum is most likely going to be a Godfather or Framer. If that is the case, the scum player can easily let SW live tonight and kill Davsto (unless Mario is that scum). However, all SW has to do is get a guilty on either me or All alone and she will automatically be confirmed town-cop because either one of us got framed or we are indeed scum.

Basically, all we know for sure is that scum-SW will not call a guilty tonight.

[absta101]

Same here.

[absta101]

Anyway, going to continue analysis of ISO'S

when he is finished with this I will hammer.

[absta101]

Well it's definitely All alone. As long as you lynch him tomorrow i'm fine with getting lynched today.
VOTE: All alone

[absta101]

Holy crap. Silver Wolf gave me a heart attack when she claimed. Me and Mario thought we had the game won after we killed CDB. I never imagined there would be a cop. I agree with everyone else though, the set-up is fair, it's just that things didn't really go our way.

In terms of CDB claiming, I think he made the right move. The only reason we killed Octopus was because of his read on Mario and I thought Davsto would've been jailed. From town's perspective there wasn't any good reason for scum to target Octopus. However, the day moved on way too quickly; Octopus is right in that CDB didn't confirm him scum. Overall, I think our downfall was that we put too much effort into killing people who suspected us instead of the most towny players.

I'm fine with having the mafia chat open for everyone to read.

Thanks for the game Frag, and everyone else. It was really fun playing with you all.

[absta101]

@SilverWolf

- I was so thrown off by your claim, so I just panicked and started trying to throw doubt on your claim.

The funny thing is. We were actually planning on killing you, CDB and Davsto but ultimately we were afraid of what would happen in terms of blocks. You'll understand our motivations better when you read the scum QT.

[absta101]

JESUS CHRIST THE MAFIA TEAM HAD SUCH LOW EXPECTATIONS FOR ME D:

Only towards the start when you wasn't doing anything. As time went on you got better and better.