Mini 1723: Town of Helen Day 4

[Titus]

Ari, Inquistor is Silverwolf.

[SilverWolf]

So I am SK and group scum? That's impossible. :p

No one actually called you SK - You just mentioned about it and then started saying that there can't be one.

SW said I was likely scum because I rolled SK before. Technically I said SK first but her post was misleading six ways from Sunday if I didn't. She said I was scum in NY 185, which is at best misleading because I was SK not scum.

She started the game off with fear mongering and SK hunting, which are scummy.

It's like asking "what is 2 plus 2" and then saying a person is scummy for mentioning 4.

No, my original vote was a joke RVS vote with a joke reason like I've said over and over again. I did not SK hunt or fear monger. I've also said over and over that SK is scum to me.

You are not listening. You just keep lying and word twisting to paint me as scum any way you can when I am not.

It's fucking exhausting.

[Vedith]

So I am SK and group scum? That's impossible. :p

No one actually called you SK - You just mentioned about it and then started saying that there can't be one.

SW said I was likely scum because I rolled SK before. Technically I said SK first but her post was misleading six ways from Sunday if I didn't. She said I was scum in NY 185, which is at best misleading because I was SK not scum.

She started the game off with fear mongering and SK hunting, which are scummy.

It's like asking "what is 2 plus 2" and then saying a person is scummy for mentioning 4.

SK is scum though.
I didn't read it as fear though.

SK is not scum. SK is a different alignment. SK is anti-town.

Still waiting for you to tell me the difference of scum and SK.

[Vedith]

I have been reading. I don't get flustered as scum. You are at best confbiasing here. You're sidestepping the issue that SK doesn't balance. Period.

Seems like you're ignoring what I am saying.

I will humor you though, what am I missing?

But I'm not, I have no opinion on the SK. I wouldn't have thought that there was one until you started talking about it.

[Titus]

@sw, you and Klingon could go for many pages and you're exhausted here? You could try acknowledging someone else's presence. How do you feel about Vedith? Ari?

I have trouble believing that SW, because I was your IC and told you the difference. Most scum hunting tactics don't pick up an SK.

It's not "lying" or "not listening", to simply not believe you. Many things get passed off as a joke, when they aren't.

You want a hug? Or afraid I will backstab you? Seriously, if you're not having fun. Try a new approach. You act the same way, so will I.

[Titus]

I have been reading. I don't get flustered as scum. You are at best confbiasing here. You're sidestepping the issue that SK doesn't balance. Period.

Seems like you're ignoring what I am saying.

I will humor you though, what am I missing?

But I'm not, I have no opinion on the SK. I wouldn't have thought that there was one until you started talking about it.

I wouldn't have until SW mentioned it.

An SK cannot win with scum. Votes differently than scum. Has no associative tells.

The only thing they usually have in common is they cannot win with each other or town and they usually have kills.

[Rob14]

Titus' original vote seems like an RVS push at someone to see what squirms, which is town play. Silverwolf's response is pretty much exactly what you hope for when you make such a push - overly concerned, defensive, etc.

The SK thing is stupid and not indicative of anything either way.

Re: Setup speculation. Traditionally, 10-2-1 couldn't possibly be balanced for scum unless one of them was lynch-proof or something equally dumb. 10-1-1-1 would be interesting, but probably too swingy for anyone to want to run it. What's more likely here is 10-2-weak cult, since this is bastard. It

is

possible to have third parties in a 13 player, 10 town bastard game, but not traditional scum and an SK. Setup speculation with zero flips is a waste of time, though. It's also a waste of time to conflate "not considering setup speculation prematurely" with "is scum".

Basically, the potential scum tell here is the reaction from Silverwolf to having a vote on them, not the shitty reasons Titus is throwing out. I almost wonder if this is an out-of-the-gate scum v. scum. Maybe I'll dig into Titus' meta later and see if she's done that before.

Post #68 is Titus encouraging us to design a setup in-thread. That's major derailing.

I don't like Vedith's ideas (setup spec =/= inside knowledge, not in the way Titus is doing it), but they're town.

Titus and SW, can one of you link to all games you've played with each other in, on and off site?

[Rob14]

I should probably note that I tend to write as I read and then post the results with little to no editing. My thoughts may change between the top and bottom of a post. That's confused people in the past, so it's easiest for everyone if I mention it now. Any reads I deliver farther down a post are more relevant/more up-to-date than those at the top.

[Titus]

P.s. Vedith and Ari town. Vedith has a rigid worldview, which is usually good in mafia (despite Mastina's recent article to the contrary).


@rob, not encouraging setup spec but trying to end it and explain why SW mentioning SK is scummy.

You dig in my meta. There's a lot.

We played NY 185, and like 6-9 games on US Message Board. Linking to them all would be a pain. There's also no scum game for me. Only one SK. (Note: not counting Rebels in the Palace or games that aren't mafia). If I forgot something, I am sure SW would supplement.

I did sub into an SW scum slot once, but I wasn't playing with her.

[Titus]

I should probably note that I tend to write as I read and then post the results with little to no editing. My thoughts may change between the top and bottom of a post. That's confused people in the past, so it's easiest for everyone if I mention it now. Any reads I deliver farther down a post are more relevant/more up-to-date than those at the top.

Isn't this how everyone does it if posting unfiltered like us?

[Titus]

@rob13, if you're looking at my meta, I play a shit ton, best to ask for a specific behavior.

[Titus]

Oh I forgot, cult's not possible.

[SilverWolf]

I wouldn't have until SW mentioned it.

@rob, not encouraging setup spec but trying to end it and explain why SW mentioning SK is scummy.

Both of these are lies. I never mentioned a SK. That was you. Please point out where I brought up the SK.

Please stop with your condescending and demeaning attitude. I will play however I want to.

Rob-Titus was scum and I was town here:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=61812

She was SK to me scum here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=61824

Both town here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=60427

Offsite: game 5- both town, game 6-me town, Titus scum game 8-both town but Titus flaked and barely played

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/us ... -zone.139/

[Rob14]

@rob13, if you're looking at my meta, I play a shit ton, best to ask for a specific behavior.

I was only interested in the interactions/history between the two of you. I'll dig for games you both posted in later if I have time. That's a big "if", kind of a busy year for me.

[Vedith]

Maybe it's because I'm tired and it's late... But I still don't understand why SK can't be scum?
And I'm still not sure how it even got mentioned that there is an SK. I keep reading Silver's comments over and she is calling you scum... Not SK, not Mafia... Scum.

@Rob - I didn't give any setup speculation... I said I don't know what the setup could be. My concern isn't actually on the set up, it's where the fuck SK come from (And Titus, don't say Silver, because that seems to be you just assuming that's what she meant regardless if she did or not).
Also - Are you saying that if someone has inside knowledge of how many Mafia/3rd parties etc that they can't slip? Or was your comment purely because I said Titus seems to know more than she gives off in particular?

But I'm off to bed anyway.

[Rob14]

I should probably note that I tend to write as I read and then post the results with little to no editing. My thoughts may change between the top and bottom of a post. That's confused people in the past, so it's easiest for everyone if I mention it now. Any reads I deliver farther down a post are more relevant/more up-to-date than those at the top.

Isn't this how everyone does it if posting unfiltered like us?

Some people read the entire thread then write a post. Even if unfiltered, people naturally tend to post more consistently in that format because they highlight the behaviors that support their overall thought process more than those that contradict it. I like writing more as a stream of consciousness because it prevents that bias, but I would say most don't do that.

[Rob14]

I definitely did note the buddying "us", by the way.

[Rob14]

@Vedith: I'm saying that this is not a situation where it appears inside knowledge was used. Even though I think there are 3rd party possibilities, I can see how a reasonable person would arrive at Titus' conclusion without knowledge of the setup. I just don't think your read that they must have inside info is very strong.

And I'm thinking more about the "us", and I really don't like it. Your read on me is either very town very fast or you know that I'm town. Now

that's

an example of inside knowledge.

VOTE: Titus

[Titus]

@sw, Game 6 I was neutral SK, with no kill.

@vedith, she's calling me a scum in NY 185. She conflated scum and SK to create paranoia.

SKs and scum are both anti town but not the same.

It's like calling moon shapes and circles the same thing because they both aren't shapes with straight edges.

[Titus]

@Vedith: I'm saying that this is not a situation where it appears inside knowledge was used. Even though I think there are 3rd party possibilities, I can see how a reasonable person would arrive at Titus' conclusion without knowledge of the setup. I just don't think your read that they must have inside info is very strong.

And I'm thinking more about the "us", and I really don't like it. Your read on me is either very town very fast or you know that I'm town. Now

that's

an example of inside knowledge.

VOTE: Titus

*sigh* knowing how I think and that it's similar to you is not inside knowledge.

Why do I feel like an IC every game as town and town still proceeds to be stupid?

[SilverWolf]

How do you feel about Vedith? Ari?

Vedith's response to this seems town motivated in how he is trying to figure the game out and is making valid observations. Ari made one post and voted for my hydra. I don't like how you are town reading him for that. No one else has said enough for me to say yet and need to post more. Rob seems o.k. You are still scum.

[Titus]

How do you feel about Vedith? Ari?

Vedith's response to this seems town motivated in how he is trying to figure the game out and is making valid observations. Ari made one post and voted for my hydra. I don't like how you are town reading him for that. No one else has said enough for me to say yet and need to post more. Rob seems o.k. You are still scum.

How simplistic, everyone who agrees with you is town and displaying analysis. Those who disagree are scummy.

Ari's post contains analysis that happens to agree with mine. Yet, you sidestep that to claim analysis = town.

Generally, I like players with a train of thought I can follow. I can follow everyone but yours SW. He'll even PB I can follow. Vedith is rigidly holding onto a worldview that 2 and 4 are the same because both are even, which I can follow even though it's wrong.

@vedith, look at the end of pisskop's game that ended. SK and scum were not the same there.

@rob, I obfuscate as scum. See the same game. I kept multiball paranoia going for like ever.

[SilverWolf]

I should probably note that I tend to write as I read and then post the results with little to no editing. My thoughts may change between the top and bottom of a post. That's confused people in the past, so it's easiest for everyone if I mention it now. Any reads I deliver farther down a post are more relevant/more up-to-date than those at the top.

Isn't this how everyone does it if posting unfiltered like us?

Titus buddies people as scum and this is an example of it. She did it to me in 185. It was multiball and she thought I was town. She is deliberately twisting my words and motivations to try to paint me as scum, I'm guessing because I'm a threat to her because I've played with her a lot and can tell when she's scum. She is not scumhunting me in a way that tries to figure out alignment but rather in a way that is scum pushing a mislynch. Her trying to push me into an emotional state is null. I would not call it town or scum from her. I know Titus. She's right that she taught me how to play this game. I used to look up to her as a mentor. What she fails to understand is that pushing me when she is scum and I'm town is a bad idea. If she wants me gone, she should shoot me at night instead. This isn't bragging. This is just because I know her and am therefore a threat to her. If she was town, she would of tried to work with me more to sort me. She's not interested in sorting me. She's only interesting in calling me scum. That's just simply not town Titus.

pedit: You can't understand me Titus because you never tried to understand me because you know I'm town and want me gone. You know getting me emotional gets others to scumread me who don't know me. This is scum Titus. Period.

[Titus]

@sw, I have tried to diffuse this multiple times, but you keep instigating and then playing the victim card. Look at big bad Titus. You haven't even played with me being scum in a pure mafia game. Ever. So you're also trying to paint yourself as an expert and trying to get sheep based off that.

The personal thing "I used to look up to her as a mentor" is designed to get a rise out of me.

The fact is, no one provokes you wolf. You get into a tizzy to start most games, and struggle to fake it as scum.

I am interested in sorting you but the more drama you cause, the harder that is and makes me think you're scum.

[SilverWolf]

How simplistic, everyone who agrees with you is town and displaying analysis. Those who disagree are scummy.

I never said that.

pedit: I never fake my emotions and you very well know this. So again you are lying about me. You've seen me get upset as both alignments, trying to paint it as scum is lying and you know it.

I'm not trying to get a rise out of you. You are the one doing that to me with your condescending shit about asking if I need a hug or not BS.