Mini 1723: Town of Helen Day 4

[SilverWolf]

I realized I do have to redact the claim or suggestion that I don't think I played as scum with you Wolf.

Bastard++ is that game.

Did you see me link it way earlier in the game when Rob asked me for games?

[SilverWolf]

@SW, That's the exact reason I get when town Mislynch me. You just don't feel town, but when you win as scum without lying, honesty becomes scummy I guess.

Vedith is lying and twisting, yet you find it to be town. Dismissing it with no thought at all. It's frustrating.

I am trying to get some sort of engagement on my scumreads but I am not getting any analytical thought but from Rob.

Have you changed your mind on Vedith? You had him as a townread IIRC.

Also, Why are you scumreading PB for lurking but are making excused for Ari when I call him out for not answering to any of the accusations against him.

What is the difference? Why is Ari town to you?

[SilverWolf]

@GL-Why is Ari scum to you?

[Rob14]

Found my next to last scum game non hydra based on last post in the thread....

Bastard++ http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=61812

I still think looking at games such as

Bowser's Mafia (Town)
and Newbie 1388 (Scum)

Are more relevant for knowing my base nature as either alignment before I learned much.

Why would I want old shitty meta instead of new interesting meta? People learn their self metas and play to them after a while, so the new stuff is what's relevant to finding tells.

[Rob14]

When I've played with ASP, he's inactive in the beginning of the game but gets better day 2 and beyond. That's what I'm expecting.

I'm not ok with that, though, because Day 1 is the most risky for scum.

[Rob14]

@SW: When I meta dive Titus, I'm looking at her general attitude and buddying tendencies, because that's something that is starting to feel "off" with me. It's very possible it's just the way she is, though, which would be a nice change of pace on a generally aggressive website.

Interestingly, the posts you've made recently have struck the same cord. A lot of agreeing with me. Not sure what to make of that. Mind supplying

your

last two town and scum games?

[Titus]

@SW, That's the exact reason I get when town Mislynch me. You just don't feel town, but when you win as scum without lying, honesty becomes scummy I guess.

Vedith is lying and twisting, yet you find it to be town. Dismissing it with no thought at all. It's frustrating.

I am trying to get some sort of engagement on my scumreads but I am not getting any analytical thought but from Rob.

Have you changed your mind on Vedith? You had him as a townread IIRC.

Also, Why are you scumreading PB for lurking but are making excused for Ari when I call him out for not answering to any of the accusations against him.

What is the difference? Why is Ari town to you?

Ari is lurking site wide.

PB made and broke a promise to produce while posting elsewhere.

[Rob14]

^Answer to the Vedith question from SW?

[Rob14]

I'll be back with a meta-related post during halftime probably. Go Ebron! 48 more yards from him and I kick Lamora's ass in fantasy.

[Titus]

@SW: When I meta dive Titus, I'm looking at her general attitude and buddying tendencies, because that's something that is starting to feel "off" with me. It's very possible it's just the way she is, though, which would be a nice change of pace on a generally aggressive website.

Interestingly, the posts you've made recently have struck the same cord. A lot of agreeing with me. Not sure what to make of that. Mind supplying

your

last two town and scum games?

I am not sure what exactly you find us agreeing on.

We disagree on GL, the reason PB is scum (to me it's the broken promise), the proper use of meta, which I will get to in my next post, how to handle the Boon situation and people's reactions, so what do we agree on other than being civil to each other?

[Titus]

Found my next to last scum game non hydra based on last post in the thread....

Bastard++ http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=61812

I still think looking at games such as

Bowser's Mafia (Town)
and Newbie 1388 (Scum)

Are more relevant for knowing my base nature as either alignment before I learned much.

Why would I want old shitty meta instead of new interesting meta? People learn their self metas and play to them after a while, so the new stuff is what's relevant to finding tells.

Maybe we're disagreeing as to the definition of an indicator but if you're looking for things a player

always or frequently does

the best games to look at are the oldest because no one has learned how to hide their flaws or enhance their assets. It's their game in the rarest most pure form.

[SilverWolf]

@SW: When I meta dive Titus, I'm looking at her general attitude and buddying tendencies, because that's something that is starting to feel "off" with me. It's very possible it's just the way she is, though, which would be a nice change of pace on a generally aggressive website.

Interestingly, the posts you've made recently have struck the same cord. A lot of agreeing with me. Not sure what to make of that. Mind supplying

your

last two town and scum games?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=62897

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63200

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Most recent 2 town games.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=63066

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=61824

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Most recent 2 scum games.

[Rob14]

I'll be back with a meta-related post during halftime probably. Go Ebron! 48 more yards from him and I kick Lamora's ass in fantasy.

Literally as I posted this Ebron went down with a knee injury, doesn't look like he'll return. Fuck me, am I right?

[Rob14]

@SW: When I meta dive Titus, I'm looking at her general attitude and buddying tendencies, because that's something that is starting to feel "off" with me. It's very possible it's just the way she is, though, which would be a nice change of pace on a generally aggressive website.

Interestingly, the posts you've made recently have struck the same cord. A lot of agreeing with me. Not sure what to make of that. Mind supplying

your

last two town and scum games?

I am not sure what exactly you find us agreeing on.

We disagree on GL, the reason PB is scum (to me it's the broken promise), the proper use of meta, which I will get to in my next post, how to handle the Boon situation and people's reactions, so what do we agree on other than being civil to each other?

The agreeing is SW, which is one form of potential buddying. The potential buddying from you (more of an "odd vibe" really) is more subtle.

[GuiltyLion]

@GL-Why is Ari scum to you?

In 110 Ari votes for SilverWolf (correcting his original vote for the SilverWolf hydra), stating "my vote and reasons stand". As far as I can tell from 74 and 110, his reasons are:

1. SilverWolf tried to 'pull us back into RVS', which makes no sense, because 34 is offering an initial evaluation of Titus' vote, which can only drive the game forward (as it did).
2. SilverWolf accused Titus of a reach. Ari agrees it's a reach. Why is it scummy to say a vote on you on the 2nd page is a reach?
3. SilverWolf 'accused' Titus of being an SK by bringing up a game where Titus was SK. This has already been beaten to death as boiling down to different definitions of the word "scum". Ari even acknowledges this in 110. So why is SilverWolf scum because she has a different definition of scum?

I raised concerns with the reasoning of points 1 & 3 in 157

None of these three make sense to me as a reason to suspect SilverWolf is scum.

Next, he also sheeps Titus by saying "Titus is making a lot of sense. Can nobody else see this?". A fair number of people have identified that Titus was not really making much sense in pushing scum!SW, me included. So I think he's jumping on a budding wagon and trying to encourage more votes.

I basically voice these concerns in 137 and vote him.

His response is 140, claiming he's '

merely

pointing out logic'. Now this claim is also false, because he threw in a loaded jab at SilverWolf, saying "I see you aren't good at seeing these nuances" (referring to inferred statements). Further, if there was any logic in 110, I just literally do not comprehend it. See above and 157. So I ask him to explain, and he never does.

However, he does take the time to post 205, which is a giant wall of summary, much of it useless. He analyzes RVS votes - why? He has one or two decent points in there, but comes out of it painting Vedith as scummy but keeping his vote on 20x100 for no visible reason. His read on Vedith also confused me, especially this part:

Also, Vedith's 61 is bad and I don't like it. It frames Titus as scum, but badly.

Whereas I look at 61 and see a loaded jabbing question obviously designed to get a reaction. So I ask him:

@Aristophanes do you think anyone is going to read 61 and change their own personal read on Titus because of it? Because to me it looks like he's clearly poking for a reaction and you're reaching for reasons to justify a scumread.

And then he hasn't posted since, giving me no reason to move my vote elsewhere.

Also this worthless WIFOM post is annoying:

I have a feeling I'm gonna look scummy this game. Just forewarning you.
Maybe I like leading everyone rong, though.

Like, if his town game is to "merely point out logic", then he shouldn't be worried at all about appearing scummy. What is the town motivation to making this post? Overall his pushes/cases have had no apparent logic, and that's why I think he is scum.

[SilverWolf]

@SW: When I meta dive Titus, I'm looking at her general attitude and buddying tendencies, because that's something that is starting to feel "off" with me. It's very possible it's just the way she is, though, which would be a nice change of pace on a generally aggressive website.

Interestingly, the posts you've made recently have struck the same cord. A lot of agreeing with me. Not sure what to make of that. Mind supplying

your

last two town and scum games?

I am not sure what exactly you find us agreeing on.

We disagree on GL, the reason PB is scum (to me it's the broken promise), the proper use of meta, which I will get to in my next post, how to handle the Boon situation and people's reactions, so what do we agree on other than being civil to each other?

The agreeing is SW, which is one form of potential buddying. The potential buddying from you (more of an "odd vibe" really) is more subtle.

I literally agree'd with one post you made which Vedith also said he strongly agrees with. I asked to compare notes about Titus because of my earlier confbias tunnel on her.

Can you point out anything else I've done where you would get a buddying vibe from? I don't know how we play this game if we can never agree with each other on anything or try to work with someone else on a read.

I guess I can ignore you or yell at you this game instead if you'd rather?

[GuiltyLion]

I am trying to get some sort of engagement on my scumreads but I am not getting any analytical thought but from Rob.

Yo if you want to have a discussion, fire away. I'd be happy for you to move your scumreading focus to actual scum

Also flubbernugget is a townlean for me. Prolapsed_Brain is starting to look worse with his lack of content, I have no idea where he's at. Flubbernugget doesn't post much explanation but the reads/callouts/vote he has made all look town-motivated from where I'm sitting.

[Titus]

I'll be back with a meta-related post during halftime probably. Go Ebron! 48 more yards from him and I kick Lamora's ass in fantasy.

Literally as I posted this Ebron went down with a knee injury, doesn't look like he'll return. Fuck me, am I right?

No I am married. Sorry. #joke

On a more game relevant note, being awkward and misunderstood is my state (just feeling off), being an aspie I obsess over right and wrong. It makes me a horrible liar. No one can read me well, so I cannot obvtown but I rarely obvscum either without a cop check. So if you're meeting me looking for being weird, you should find it in any game I check.

[pistachi0n]

The part about warning that he's going to look scummy is especially scummy and I see that more often from scum. I don't really agree that the rest of it is scummy. Ari is a weak scumread right now.

[Rob14]

Nothing like the pleasantries in this game from Titus in her town games. In fact, it appears she doesn't talk much with her two reads at all. This may be colored somewhat; the first game is a newbie (so less people worth talking two) and the second is something she replaced into (smaller sample size). Mind going one more back for me Titus to your most recent non-newbie and complete game (i.e. no replace-in)?

Looking at scum games now.

P-edit: Haven't read above posts, will do so soon

[SilverWolf]

I had a huge problem with 150 from Ari as well because it's too much of a concern about how he looks. Town doesn't care so much about how they are perceived. I've mentioned Ari several times in my ISO and pointed out all the posts here 281.

I also don't like his original vote for me because he said he understood how my RVS could of been perceived wrong but goes ahead and votes for me for that reasoning anyway. Then makes the little jab, adding to Titus jabs, then says I'm keeping us in RVS which anyone looking at it reasonably would see that's not true.

So bascially, it's twofold.

-Opportunistic voting patterns: He saw an opening to get me wagoned up and took it reagardless of the reasoning being good or not.

-Too much concern over looking scummy-potentially trying to pre-emptively address it before it becomes an issue to others. Also, worry about how he looks.

[Rob14]

Nothing like the pleasantries in her scum games either, though, so meta doesn't tell me much. It seems from the games I looked at that Titus doesn't interact very heavily with her town reads in town games but does more so in scum games, but that's a fairly weak "tell" given the reasons I explained above that the town games may not be representative. I don't think the meta tells me anything solid, really. I'm going with my gut that Titus is town until I have evidence otherwise.

[SilverWolf]

Have you changed your mind on Vedith? You had him as a townread IIRC.

@Titus

[Titus]

I am trying to get some sort of engagement on my scumreads but I am not getting any analytical thought but from Rob.

Yo if you want to have a discussion, fire away. I'd be happy for you to move your scumreading focus to actual scum

Also flubbernugget is a townlean for me. Prolapsed_Brain is starting to look worse with his lack of content, I have no idea where he's at. Flubbernugget doesn't post much explanation but the reads/callouts/vote he has made all look town-motivated from where I'm sitting.

I don't think I can agree with a town read there but he's a gun to my head level scum anyway. Things without explainations are hard for me to read.

I actually want to talk about 20/100(who has been parking) Vedith (who I though was pretty town early but his recent posting fell off), and ASP.

@Rob, No problem although that's quite a few back as I don't start much due to D1 being treated like shit.

[Titus]

Have you changed your mind on Vedith? You had him as a townread IIRC.

@Titus

It's dramatically weakened due to the bullshit he is spouting.