NY 190: Molla's Large Normal

[Vedith]

So, what's the case IaI?

[VeeGee]

FNs in my book are guilty

until proven innocent.

Second,

Skybird cannot be guilty

unless VeeGee also is guilty.

That's quite a contradoction there.

[Vedith]

How? XD

You need to re read that I think, VeeGee.
Is Sky is guilty, then you are as well.

Same as if TheWorst is guilty, so is AJ...

It's simple.

[FA_Q2]

FNs in my book are guilty

until proven innocent.

Second,

Skybird cannot be guilty

unless VeeGee also is guilty.

That's quite a contradoction there.

Seriously?

It is FACT that if sky is scum (therefore not an FN) then you MUST be lying about the message and ergo are scum. If you are town then it is presumed that you are telling the truth and FN is confirmed town. IOW, you flipping/being confirmed town would prove his innocence. The only way Titus' remark that you point out would not make complete sense with a town VeeGee is if you were actively playing against your wincon by lying about the message.

pedit: ninja'd

[FA_Q2]

So, what's the case IaI?

ditto.

[Aj The Epic]

How? XD

You need to re read that I think, VeeGee.
Is Sky is guilty, then you are as well.

Same as if TheWorst is guilty, so is AJ...

It's simple.

Can you stop being completely irrational without presenting anything towards it?

[Vedith]

AJ, untwist your knickers buddy...
I'm stating a fact... I'm not even saying to push you for this...
If TheWorst is not FN, then it means you lied, it's the game mechanics.

[Aj The Epic]

I missed the 'if'.

[I Am Innocent]

Has everybody answered?

The worst & sky bird = FN, so no
Performer = VT so no
FA = yes
Luna I believe said no
Talah no
Me no
AJ 2 shot BP
Vedith no
Titus = not N1 so no

Who does that still leave? Sal veegee and cbd?

[I Am Innocent]

FA I will have a follow up question for u once the other 3 have chimed in.

[Vedith]

IaI, if anyone doesn't tell you, will you still give the information?

[I Am Innocent]

Yes but I want to give them one more chance in their next post.

[FA_Q2]

FA I will have a follow up question for u once the other 3 have chimed in.

I assumed as much.

I will be in and out on here for most of the day so I should be able to respond rather quickly.

[Vedith]

We still have 9 days so all good.

[VeeGee]

How? XD

You need to re read that I think, VeeGee.
Is Sky is guilty, then you are as well.

Same as if TheWorst is guilty, so is AJ...

It's simple.

No, she said that skybird CANNOT be guilty unless I am.

[VeeGee]

Has everybody answered?

The worst & sky bird = FN, so no
Performer = VT so no
FA = yes
Luna I believe said no
Talah no
Me no
AJ 2 shot BP
Vedith no
Titus = not N1 so no

Who does that still leave? Sal veegee and cbd?

I can't do anything at night, so no.

[VeeGee]

FNs in my book are guilty

until proven innocent.

Second,

Skybird cannot be guilty

unless VeeGee also is guilty.

That's quite a contradoction there.

Seriously?

It is FACT that if sky is scum (therefore not an FN) then you MUST be lying about the message and ergo are scum. If you are town then it is presumed that you are telling the truth and FN is confirmed town. IOW, you flipping/being confirmed town would prove his innocence. The only way Titus' remark that you point out would not make complete sense with a town VeeGee is if you were actively playing against your wincon by lying about the message.

pedit: ninja'd

So, tell me this.


What happens when I'm town, don't get it, and still playing to my wincon?

[VeeGee]

Titus said that There is no way skybird is scum unless I am. Yet right before, she says that she considers all FNs scum until proven otherwise.

[FA_Q2]

How? XD

You need to re read that I think, VeeGee.
Is Sky is guilty, then you are as well.

Same as if TheWorst is guilty, so is AJ...

It's simple.

No, she said that skybird CANNOT be guilty unless I am.

And that is true. If you don't understand then you really need to reexamine the situation.

[FA_Q2]

FNs in my book are guilty

until proven innocent.

Second,

Skybird cannot be guilty

unless VeeGee also is guilty.

That's quite a contradoction there.

Seriously?

It is FACT that if sky is scum (therefore not an FN) then you MUST be lying about the message and ergo are scum. If you are town then it is presumed that you are telling the truth and FN is confirmed town. IOW, you flipping/being confirmed town would prove his innocence. The only way Titus' remark that you point out would not make complete sense with a town VeeGee is if you were actively playing against your wincon by lying about the message.

pedit: ninja'd

So, tell me this.


What happens when I'm town, don't get it, and still playing to my wincon?

So you are trying to claim that you can play to your win-con as town by covering up a scum players lie?

Ummm, no.

That is enough trying to make you understand basic boolean logic though - it is no longer helping town. If you still do not understand then there is no point in continuing - it is willful.

[Skybird]

Skybird trying to lynch Worst is stupid, though. Neither FN should be targets since they both say they can resend.

Egh - actually yeah.

I can see some incredulity happening but I mean - there just could be two FN's in the setup?

Otherwise the option is that you and Worst are confirmed scum.

@Skybird
If you pre-claimed FN beforehand, how does it benefit the scumteam to counterclaim?

I'm just getting back. Public Service Announcement: I just started a new job this week and between work and the commute, I will be afk at least 10 hours of the day. I log in early morning my time before I have to leave for work and I get on after dinner. (Gotta spend some time talking to the hubby.) Anyway, during the day I just can't be here to answer questions.

To answer your question Talah, is as FN, I am confirmed town. The only way I'm not is for VG to be scum and me to be scum. I viewed the way VG revealed the message as trying to cast doubt on my FN claim. Then when Worst and AJ make their claim, it felt like they were going to try and push a lynch on me. Also, Worst didn't really seem that upset when AJ outed him. He stated he was mad, but to me it just didn't come off as real.

I will freely admit I'm a VI and don't play very well. I am trying but all I can do is try my best. So while it might not make sense to someone better reasoned at the game, it just seemed like a weird thing to claim. This is the first time I've seen FN in a game, so for there to be two just doesn't seem right.

[VeeGee]

You're also riding heavily on the thought process that it was intentional, FAQ.


Also, I see what was meant with what titus said now.

[Titus]

@skybird, you are not conftown. *growls*

[talah]

To answer your question Talah, is as FN, I am confirmed town. The only way I'm not is for VG to be scum and me to be scum. I viewed the way VG revealed the message as trying to cast doubt on my FN claim. Then when Worst and AJ make their claim, it felt like they were going to try and push a lynch on me. Also, Worst didn't really seem that upset when AJ outed him. He stated he was mad, but to me it just didn't come off as real.

I guess here's how I'm thinking about the Friendly Neighbour thing (and I think some others are too).


choof claimed it first. There's a really really low percentage chance that scum fake-claims Friendly Neighbour first and there happens to be an actual Town FN role in the game.
So I tend to believe choof's claim and that your role is genuine.

If Worst is fake-claiming Friendly Neighbour as scum...
This would have to be fake-confirmed by a scumbuddy. (As in you would also have to think that AJ never actually got the message - because none would have ever been sent if Worst was lying about being a FN).

So that puts Worst/AJ in an awkward situation if they are scum - because as soon as Worst flips scum, we *know* that AJ is also scum.
And the problem for Worst-scum is, that day after day he needs to keep presenting that he's sent out more FN messages, or make up some excuse as to why the message didn't go through.

Granted there are a few situations where that would be credible - eg if the supposed target of the message gets killed, or he could probably argue that he was being framed by being roleblocked or something (or slept in, etc). Each of these are going to bring suspicion on the claim. The only option that isn't going to drraw suspicion is if he sends it to *another scumbuddy* who fake-confirms they received a message.

So I simply wonder if that's a useful play for scum. And to me it seems like it isn't.
Because he doesn't really gain anything except living for another day if he's lying about sending messages, and if he is lying he's outted AJ as another scum.
So... I tend to think that both FN claims are true and I think the most useful information is gained by seeing what happens when both you and Worst survive another night phase and send another message each.


Gratz on the job btw!

[BBmolla]

VOTECOUNT TWO POINT FIE

VEDITH - 2 - SALAMENCE20, LUNA FOX,
VEEGEE - 2 - PERFORMER, TITUS,
CHANNELDELIBIRD - 1 - AJ THE EPIC,
THEWORST - 1 - SKYBIRD,

NOT VOTING: THEWORST, I AM INNOCENT, VEEGEE, CHANNELDELIBIRD, VEDITH, FA_Q2, TALAH,

DEADLINE: (expired on 2015-10-17 07:05:00)

WITH 13 ALIVE IT TAKES 7 TO LYNCH