Mini 1717 Alfred Hitchcock UPick [GAME OVER]

[Hecatia Lapislazuli]

I'm referring to you talking about your reads on other players, even if it's just passerby comments about having way too many scumreads.

Here, up until that list you only gave 2 real committed reads. THAT is the issue I have with it, because the other game you had no issue giving passerby stances. But no, you can pick that apart all you want because that's not what I am saying.

SQUAWK

[Davsto]

1) Approximately 200 posts.
2) farside22, while struggling to post extensively due to IRL issues, made some very good points in what she said.

1) I realize that. My question was what in those 200 posts made you change your mind?
2) What specific points of Farside's did you think were town-motivated?

1) Sorry, my sarcasm got a tad ahead of me there. I'm not really sure, it's more a gutread than anything else. I know, go ahead and groan.
2) The interactions with me - she defended me when I would very much have been an easy target for scum to jump on (see: Hecatia) or at least ignore, and in 191 particularly she implored me to actually expand on other things. I find this unlikely to be scum-motivated, in my head.

[Wingback]

I disagree with #2 but I can see town thinking that way. I'll rephrase #1:

You had Vedith as town for decent reasoning (the lynchbait discussion). What about his posts put him back at null?

[Davsto]

I'm referring to you talking about your reads on other players, even if it's just passerby comments about having way too many scumreads.

Here, up until that list you only gave 2 real committed reads. THAT is the issue I have with it, because the other game you had no issue giving passerby stances. But no, you can pick that apart all you want because that's not what I am saying.

SQUAWK

The point I'm trying to make is that meta reads are basically bollocks. The situation in Flower Viewing is different to this one in so many ways and for so many reasons. In my opinion, using meta is pretty rubbish and unreliable anyway, but when you're basing it on one game it's just silly.

I don't use meta reads, but I'm always more than happy to pick apart ones on me. The thing about meta reads is that it's incredibly easy to say "his play in this is different to his play in [game] where he was town," as if you're expecting me to play exactly the goddamn same in every game, ignoring other town games where I may have played differently, and totally ignoring the fact that the circumstances in this game are different.

[Hecatia Lapislazuli]

Let's play this game

If we were scum looking for easy targets to jump on, why not jump on bulge, farside, or vedith?

Why you?

SQUAWK

[Davsto]

I disagree with #2 but I can see town thinking that way. I'll rephrase #1:

You had Vedith as town for decent reasoning (the lynchbait discussion). What about his posts put him back at null?

I haven't seen anything super townie from him still. While this is acceptable earlygame, as the game progresses I expect people to have at least become more townlike, a bit. It's more gut than anything though.

[Davsto]

Let's play this game

If we were scum looking for easy targets to jump on, why not jump on bulge, farside, or vedith?

Why you?

SQUAWK

*looks at last votecount*

*looks at camera*

[Thor665]

You missed the point of my post buddy. Sakura is notorious for having consistently bad reads, always. For ank to ask her to get better reads is practically asking the impossible. Your response of, "you're in a glass house" means you think the same of me.

And I don't care if it's rude. The truth is not always nice. My point was to tell ank that his efforts would be better spent elsewhere.

Well, if you don't care that it's rude then you don't care.

Not avoiding it, just don't feel like doing it at the moment because I ate a ton of chicken at lunch and I'm feeling lethargic. Also you irritated me with your first post. So you can wait until I feel like it.

So, the answer isn't 'no' but rather 'not just this moment'.
Okay.

Also no, I don't think my current vote is "hyper weak". I feel good about it.

It is presented as paranoia and issue with a vote due to theory of counterwagon push while not voting the primary person that is required to be scum *for* it to be a counterwagon push.
If that's not weak to you, okay, but then I really don't get how Hecatia's positioning qualifies as weak.

The problem is that if you're not going to be pushing your wagons, you don't exactly get leeway in telling other people to start doing it.

I can get behind that - but hypocrisy is a different thing, do you disagree?

you made a big post on Vedith way back when that wagon was a thing

Only because he asked me to support my vote. When people ask me stuff I provide.

You haven't even pushed me at all after you voted me.

Don't need to, you're the biggest wagon.

the fact that you're going to criticize people for just not pushing a wagon they're solo voting on while you're just passively supporting essentially the same thing sans the wagon length is ridiculous.

I disagree both that it is ridiculous and that it is remotely the same thing - can you clarify that belief?

[Wingback]

@ Hecatia, I'd like a response to my posts to you in Post 556. Why haven't you commented yet?

[Thor665]

The interactions with me - she defended me when I would very much have been an easy target for scum to jump on (see: Hecatia) or at least ignore, and in 191 particularly she implored me to actually expand on other things. I find this unlikely to be scum-motivated, in my head.

You don't think farside would run a WK gambit as scum?

[Concrete Angels]

It is presented as paranoia and issue with a vote due to theory of counterwagon push while not voting the primary person that is required to be scum *for* it to be a counterwagon push.

Incorrect.

[Concrete Angels]

Also ank, that

was

Sakura you were talking to.

[Davsto]

The interactions with me - she defended me when I would very much have been an easy target for scum to jump on (see: Hecatia) or at least ignore, and in 191 particularly she implored me to actually expand on other things. I find this unlikely to be scum-motivated, in my head.

You don't think farside would run a WK gambit as scum?

It read as genuine rather than forced townreading, to me. Maybe I'm just soft. I'll have to see what the replacement does to be more sure.

[Concrete Angels]

Hi davsto.

[Thor665]

It is presented as paranoia and issue with a vote due to theory of counterwagon push while not voting the primary person that is required to be scum *for* it to be a counterwagon push.

Incorrect.

I suppose that might be true, you weren't the one calling it a counter, you just generically called it hinky.
But even at that point, it's not like it's a well supported case, so I think my initial point holds fine.

[Thor665]

It read as genuine rather than forced townreading, to me. Maybe I'm just soft. I'll have to see what the replacement does to be more sure.

Why did it read as genuine to you?

[Thor665]

I mean, I can assume from context that it has to do with Ank's interactions just prior to 495 but Thor hasn't explicitly given any specific reasons.

And, actually, going back and looking at your stated issue - it's kind of silly that you basically think you know why I did it, but don't ask, *and* declare that it makes me the weakest vote even while not bothering to double check your presupposition or explaining why your presupposition equates to weakness of vote.
So, yeah, my initial point holds - if this is a "fine" case what makes Hecatia's "Weak"?

[Davsto]

Hi davsto.

Low Concrete Angels

It read as genuine rather than forced townreading, to me. Maybe I'm just soft. I'll have to see what the replacement does to be more sure.

Why did it read as genuine to you?

Because she gives reasons for the townreads with potential reasons for the things you were scumreading me for, basically summing up how I was thinking despite me not clearly stating it.

[Concrete Angels]

It is presented as paranoia and issue with a vote due to theory of counterwagon push while not voting the primary person that is required to be scum *for* it to be a counterwagon push.

Incorrect.

I suppose that might be true, you weren't the one calling it a counter, you just generically called it hinky.
But even at that point, it's not like it's a well supported case, so I think my initial point holds fine.

It's supported enough in my head for me to feel good about the vote and to feel that I'm on the right track. I don't need to convince you about it. Sure I could spend time and effort convincing others about it, but I don't particularly want to at the moment, and I don't think it's necessary. It's D1 and I'm less than certain of where I need to be looking anyway, so really a flip for any of my possible suspects would work just as well.

[Concrete Angels]

I mean, I can assume from context that it has to do with Ank's interactions just prior to 495 but Thor hasn't explicitly given any specific reasons.

And, actually, going back and looking at your stated issue - it's kind of silly that you basically think you know why I did it, but don't ask, *and* declare that it makes me the weakest vote even while not bothering to double check your presupposition or explaining why your presupposition equates to weakness of vote.
So, yeah, my initial point holds - if this is a "fine" case what makes Hecatia's "Weak"?

I care less about the reasons, and more about the action itself. Also I'm not really listening to anything Hecatia is saying anymore, so I don't really know what you're talking about.

[Thor665]

Because she gives reasons for the townreads with potential reasons for the things you were scumreading me for, basically summing up how I was thinking despite me not clearly stating it.

Careful - I might make you try to defend his illogical defense of you, if you keep on that line.
But, okay, I understand, and disagree with, your stance.

I care less about the reasons, and more about the action itself. Also I'm not really listening to anything Hecatia is saying anymore, so I don't really know what you're talking about.

So when you were making fun of her case it wasn't because you were aware of the case, but more just a general desire to downplay her position and make her look weak/scummy?

[Hecatia Lapislazuli]

Also ank, that

was

Sakura you were talking to.

I don't think you're in any position to talk shit when you can't tell us apart ETL.

SQUAWK

[Hecatia Lapislazuli]

Thor I think this more of a matter of ETL being an asshole than alignment indicative, convince me?

SQUAWK

[Hecatia Lapislazuli]

I'll respond to wingading's 556 when I have time to do a quote stripey post

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: Davesto

Um, okay..?

Is there a reason for this or are you thinking it's a good idea for you to sheep Hecatia of all players?

I don't like your iso, I currently think you're scummier than Hecatia. I should have given a reason, though. You have multiple posts in which you say things like "I don't really have anything to say at this point," and I don't like it.