Mini 1727: Legends of the Hidden Temple II - Game Over!

[Titus]

@Vedith, Take a shot to remove town hood mate early to stop the difficult mislynch. FB thinks you and he always scumread each other, which makes you a threat. FB challenges early to get you on the block.

Vyse obvtowns later as town. So FB challenges BB/Vyse to try and stop that from happening.

It makes a lot more sense than the inconsistent story that FB put forth.

[Davsto]

So you're honestly suggesting that Firebringer purposefully made it so that 50% of the lynch pool on the first day was scum? Yeh, bollocks.

[Titus]

Yes. Remember, scum have no night kill in this game. They have to act fast to stop townreads. They want chaos rather than focused reads.

The fact optimal scumplay for FB/BBMolla looks like it's not is even better.

[Davsto]

But instantly challenging creates chaos on its own. If Fire were scum, he would make the rest of the lynch pool all town. The number of town/scum in the pool doesn't affect the chaos.

Fire isn't stupid. He wouldn't put any more scum on the line than himself when pulling off a manoeuvre like that as scum.

[Titus]

And if FB gets lynched, all the other three would be presumed town. It clears BB then. If he challenges an all town pool, there's a decent chance he's lynched. If that happens, the game is practically gg for town at that point.

[Titus]

I would state there's no way FB challenges an all town pool if he has smart buddies and they have any say.

Worst case, his buddy gets lynched and FB sails on credit.

[Davsto]

And if FB gets lynched, all the other three would be presumed town. It clears BB then. If he challenges an all town pool, there's a decent chance he's lynched. If that happens, the game is practically gg for town at that point.

But Fire isn't stupid. He wouldn't basically risk a good chance (50% or over) on the first day for scum to be lynched in the offchance that they lynch him and possibly assume the rest is town based upon it, not in a game without nightkills where all the kills have to be lynches.

[Titus]

That's the reason scum FB cannot go with an all town pool. It's not a low chance to lynch 1/4 when the rest of the town cannot be floated as mislynches.

Still presuming you think FB scum, let's lynch him and get the flip. We can talk more about who FB is scum with after confirmation.

[Kaito Kirishima]

@metal sonic you gonna give us any reasons behind all your reads or no? Because right now most of your reads mean nothing to me.

[Kaito Kirishima]

I may have the answer we seek

If we all play blind to the challegne post the mod will be forced to admit it doesnt exist right ?

If only that would work because this challenge seem so pointless, it should have been initiated the day after the phase started -.-.

[Kaito Kirishima]

So you know with 100% positive mind that if I did not challenge. I would come to the exactly same reads and be able to challenge one of those teams?

Cause I don't.

Scum who are no in the lynch pool were able to get relaxed by the thought they were safe, it makes them easier to read (IMO) where as scum inside pool would try to appear more town.

Those are my thoughts on that.

Seem's like even the people in the challenge are relaxed tho and other than you I don't really see anyone else in the pool as scum., so not sure how you can even get read's off of that. The challenged should have been dlayed by like 1 day.

I think if you didn't challenge the reads would be better and more accurate in my opinion.

[Suzune]

I will be back in about an hour post then. Sorry for the delay

[Davsto]

That's the reason scum FB cannot go with an all town pool. It's not a low chance to lynch 1/4 when the rest of the town cannot be floated as mislynches.

Still presuming you think FB scum, let's lynch him and get the flip. We can talk more about who FB is scum with after confirmation.

But I'm not sold on FB being scum. Only thing I've seen against him is this whole thing, and I can see Fire!town thinking that it's a good idea for the sake of starting discussion. I've played with Firebringer, he's the reckless type.

[Kaito Kirishima]

That's the reason scum FB cannot go with an all town pool. It's not a low chance to lynch 1/4 when the rest of the town cannot be floated as mislynches.

Still presuming you think FB scum, let's lynch him and get the flip. We can talk more about who FB is scum with after confirmation.

But I'm not sold on FB being scum. Only thing I've seen against him is this whole thing, and I can see Fire!town thinking that it's a good idea for the sake of starting discussion. I've played with Firebringer, he's the reckless type.

The way I see it is, just cause he was the one who had the balls to pull off such a reckless move doesn't make him town. Any one of us could have done that same exact move, for the exact same reasons as him. I would still think said person is scummy.

[Davsto]

That's the reason scum FB cannot go with an all town pool. It's not a low chance to lynch 1/4 when the rest of the town cannot be floated as mislynches.

Still presuming you think FB scum, let's lynch him and get the flip. We can talk more about who FB is scum with after confirmation.

But I'm not sold on FB being scum. Only thing I've seen against him is this whole thing, and I can see Fire!town thinking that it's a good idea for the sake of starting discussion. I've played with Firebringer, he's the reckless type.

The way I see it is, just cause he was the one who had the balls to pull off such a reckless move doesn't make him town. Any one of us could have done that same exact move, for the exact same reasons as him. I would still think said person is scummy.

I'm not townreading him for it. I'm not scumreading him for it. It's a null tell, and basing a lynch off a null tell is a bad idea.

Titus, explain why you think Firebringer is scum and should be lynched?

[Davsto]

Because I'm not convinced, but I might be.

[Haschel Cedricson]

The pool of players eligible to be lynched today consists of:

Firebringer
Vedith

VysePresident
BBmolla

Here are the current votes:

Vedith (5)

: Metal Sonic, Davsto, VysePresident, BBmolla, Shiro

Firebringer (4)

: Titus, Kaito Kirishima, Suzune, Prolapsed Brain

VysePresident (2)

: Firebringer, Vedith

Not Voting (1) - Elbrin

With 12 players alive, it will take 7 votes to lynch.

[Suzune]

As stated already. Why would a scum challenge another team with scum in? That would give it more or less a 50% chance of a town lynch.
My bet is, if FB is scum then both Molla and Vyse are town.

This is a fair point. A very fair point. I see no reason for scum to challenge another scum team. Unless they were both really confident of their manipulation skills.

[Suzune]

At this point so far, I like Vyse for Town. This looks like his town game to me using his usual reasoning, I mean he has not talked about Buzzwords yet, but other then that I think his seasons are still good.

At the vote count, I believe that both Firebringer and Vedith are voting Vyse for protection.

However, I find it rare that one no mafia team, challenged another no mafia team. I think that Vedith is probably on the right track.

[Titus]

At this point so far, I like Vyse for Town. This looks like his town game to me using his usual reasoning, I mean he has not talked about Buzzwords yet, but other then that I think his seasons are still good.

At the vote count, I believe that both Firebringer and Vedith are voting Vyse for protection.

However, I find it rare that one no mafia team, challenged another no mafia team. I think that Vedith is probably on the right track.

Confused?

Vedith is on the right track but Vyse is town?

[VysePresident]

At this point so far, I like Vyse for Town. This looks like his town game to me using his usual reasoning, I mean he has not talked about Buzzwords yet, but other then that I think his seasons are still good.

At the vote count, I believe that both Firebringer and Vedith are voting Vyse for protection.

However, I find it rare that one no mafia team, challenged another no mafia team. I think that Vedith is probably on the right track.

Just because I'm a pedantic son of a submariner, I did

not

scumread Elbirn for using buzzwords last game. I scumread him for writing a forced case that did not fit the events of the actual game, and one of the symptoms of that was an over reliance on buzzwords to make up for his lack of actual personal thought on the matter. I think it was largely scum dismissing my case on Elbirn that game as 'hating buzzwords', when frankly, they're not a big deal in and of themselves.

Thank you.

[Suzune]

Well I am trying to think about what I would do in the situation.

-Yes Titus, I do think Vyse is town. That has nothing to do with Vedith being on the right track.

-Actually, as I was playing something else right now and it came to me. If I was mafia, I would take advantage of my partners weirdness. Therefore, perhaps the mafia here is Vedith. Firebringer is a great choice to make the challenge because he will debate and back his teammate. Therefore, since Vedith is less talkative it becomes more of a cover. This sugests to me that perhaps Vedith is the actual mafia here.

UNVOTE: [
VOTE: Vedith
Please keep in mind that this puts him at L-1

[Titus]

Because I'm not convinced [Firebringer is scum] but I might be.

If I'm Firebringer, I know my own meta and what others think of it. If he doesn't, his buddies would tell him. Everyone here is competent and we have to suppose scum have daychat because no night.

Firebringer's responses to why he challenged were inconsistent. Read that part again.

FB doesn't seem paranoid of the townreads by Vedith when a townie would be.

His behavior, particularly his AtE discredit (never trust Titus's reads on me), doesn't look townie.

[Titus]

At this point so far, I like Vyse for Town. This looks like his town game to me using his usual reasoning, I mean he has not talked about Buzzwords yet, but other then that I think his seasons are still good.

At the vote count, I believe that both Firebringer and Vedith are voting Vyse for protection.

However, I find it rare that one no mafia team, challenged another no mafia team. I think that Vedith is probably on the right track.

Vedith thinks Vyse is scum. You think Vyse is town. Vedith being on the right track is inconsistent.

I'm not sure how you think Vedith being on the right track has nothing to do with anything...

[Davsto]

inb4 Firebringer lolhammers

PEdit - inconsistency =/= scum. I've played enough games to know that town sometimes slip up, or they have more than one motivation to do something. Scum try hard to stay consistent. Fire!scum would have come up with a reason for it and stuck to it because scum!Fire would know that inconsistency is a big problem. Town!Fire couldn't give a flying arse what people think of him and this is looking like that Fire.