Mini 1723: Town of Helen Day 4

pistachi0n · Post Post #875 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:24 pm

In post 836, SilverWolf wrote:I actually am not liking how wgeurts has done nothing BUT tunnel Titus.

This observation from Titus's in-game nemesis makes Silver Wolf seem town.

Titus · Post Post #876 (ISO) » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:04 pm

In post 875, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 836, SilverWolf wrote:I actually am not liking how wgeurts has done nothing BUT tunnel Titus.

This observation from Titus's in-game nemesis makes Silver Wolf seem town.

If it was consistent, I agree. Yet, I have been making the same observation about wgeurts and Vedith and she calls it opportunistic. If she was really worried, why would she have a problem with my interpretation matching hers?

Her comments on wgeurts seem timed with the rise and fall of wagons. Rob13 comments I'm reading only Vedith and wgeurts as scum and doesn't like it. SW waits and chimes in with that later.

I comment I object to the tunnelling. SW calls it opportunistic. Then the wagons move, generating the post above. Then SW reverts to this.

I have trouble finding her original thoughts or getting how she feels. Sure she's raging but I can't track her own thought here. For that reason, I hesitate to call her town. Both town and scum have tunneled me to the ends of the earth.

YnB in InuYasha tunnelled us after I swung an all town wagon on them. We know Piegyn in FF7 (which for some reason SW thought I lied about which makes no sense).

I cannot clearly place her and the lack of questioning from others is detrimental to this. I question her; she explodes. Peace maintains when I am not.

SilverWolf · Post Post #877 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:24 am

When people are commenting on various players in the game, then I'm going to chime in with my comments. Flubber, Rob, and others were talking about wgeurts, so I gave the opinion that all he has done is tunnel Titus. Vedith was mentioned. I also feel like he is avoiding this game, refused to answer my questions, and is saying there is nothing to talk about. I'm failing to see town motivation in that.

Since I'm starting to doubt my read on these two, and Titus is also scumreading them, that basically means I am questioning my Titus read. If one of Vedith or 20 is scum, I would likely drop my scumread on Titus altogether. The thing is, Titus is painting this as scummy instead of town reassessing their reads. She's even trying to say my check on FF7 wasn't an honest mistake. I feel like she is going to find everything I do as scum and has been doing that since my first post. It is very frustrating and also very difficult for me to townread someone doing that. Especially when I feel like her original push was terrible and that she's been pushing my buttons all game.

Titus-You are welcome to question me directly. You'll notice Ari did that and I answered. We had a conversation. I have tried to question Vedith. He refused to engage me. This is concerning for me. I called your pushes on them both opportunistic because they are the only ones voting you. I have a hard time seeing them both as scum just sitting on your wagon together. That does not make sense as scumplay. It's too obvious. But you seem to think they are scum and that I'm also scum which would mean there are 3 scum sitting on your wagon right now. You seem to think that's something scum would do. You are a good player, that makes no sense as scumplay and you aren't even realizing that when you should be.

I also feel like you were super quick to townread PB at the same time he voted for who you wanted to vote for even thought most of us are thinking he's scum. When I pushed that, you immediately jumped to the conclusion I'm scum with wgeurts trying to save him and completely discredited my push on PB.

You should (or anyone should) ISO Titus and myself together and watch how she has gotten involved in every major decision I have made in this game to discredit me in some way.

The reason I got angry and called for the 1v1 was because I so strongly believed she was scum manipulating me, I was willing put us both up for lynch. I've been manipulated by scum like this before. I even mentioned where it happened to me in a past game. I also did not want to deal with the constant battle anymore between us. I was not kidding when I said I was considering replacing.

I don't even know how anyone can say they can't follow my thought process as I've given reads and been very clear on where I stand this game. Yes, I've been going after Titus she's been my main scumread. I've explained why, many times. The latest, trying to sell us as TvT while trying to sell me as scum makes zero sense and added to the constant discrediting, button pushing, awful opening case based on SK garbage, I can't read her as town.

When she brought up 180 and said I have a history of getting force replaced for losing my temper and lost it in every game, I pretty much decided I was tired of dealing with her this game. I do not lose my cool in every game. That is the only game I was ever force replaced out of and there were several who disagree'd with the decision who talked to me about it privately and Titus knows every thing that happened and the only possible reason I can see for her bringing this up is to either get under my skin (again) or to discredit me again. Where is the town motivation in that?

Vedith · Post Post #878 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:54 am

I am currently typing a post.

Vedith · Post Post #879 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:30 am

In post 778, SilverWolf wrote:Why not? If it gets you talking go ahead and I never said it confirms her as scum. It makes it far more likely my words about her will be taken seriously and her actions towards me will be shown to be bad when I flip town. Too many are calling this TvT and I don't see it that way.

Right, lets get me involved in the game properly now. I was going to replace out as it's not fair to not be followed up on the game. So lets start from here and if I can get back onto track with this game then I'll stay in.

I personally doubt TvT. I do like Titus as scum. The doubt I have it Titus is another player like myself that looks scummy and is pretty much a basic D1 lynch. I do think that this is TvS between you too. It's too drawn out to be TvT and it's too focused to be SvS. For me, if you flipped town, Titus would be set in my book as scum, and the other way around.

In post 778, SilverWolf wrote:There's been quite a lot of analysis in this game since you last posted outside of the Titus vs me argument-for example my push on PB earlier, wgeurts comments about Titus, GL's recent analysis that is very much game related and relevant.

PB doesn't strike me as scum. But considering he has even less con tent as me (although he is a standard lurker) this doesn't give much credit.
I also haven't seen much of a case on him from you. Can you suggest the posts for me as I feel I am missing something.

wgeurts was already on Titus. the posts he did was more or less comments already on the playing field. The only opinion that I changed from WG's posts were that if Titus is town (I still doubt that overall) then there is a good chance that he is your scum partner. I don't have anything to back this up, as the push on Titus while using you as an example can be legit, but I'm not feeling that only 1 of you would be scum. Keep in mind, that's only a Titus town result for me.

GL isn't striking me as town. I've only had 2 games with him. 1 ongoing, you will have to search to see what he was, and 1 finished where he was scum (I had him as a hard null). But I feel that he is more scummier than town just for coming across as posting to look town, rather than posting as town.
He also says TvT with SW and Titus. Again, either trying to comment on the debate without getting anyone's focus on him or he's trying to prevent a scum partner from slipping and trying to draw focus onto someone else (PB in this case).
I also don't like that he still thinks of me as town when I haven't been involved in the game since a few people called me town. At this stage, he should be pressuring and poking to why I haven't been commenting.

On a side note.

Rob was my strongest town read. I haven't gone through his posts yet. As my opinion stands on him, a flip from SW or Titus will not alter my opinion on him regardless of the flip.

Flubbernugget is another that I want to look into, I haven't like what I skimmed as in reading a town, but I think there's a lot more in depth comment that can be advised here.

Again, I apologies for not putting full effort here. I am working towards being fully caught up.

GuiltyLion · Post Post #880 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:52 am

I'm phoneposting right now and will bring more content at lunch today hopefully.

Vedith you are confused - we do not have a completed game together where I was scum. Was this an honest mistake, did you mistake me for another player?

It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with this game, but if you are using this 'past game' for a meta read on me then that mistake needs to be sorted.

PB, you didn't answer my question - what do you think of the development of my read on Rob and what does that tell you about my alignment?

I have no real new thoughts on SW vs Titus and it's annoying that it has dominated the game to the extent that it has. My townlean on Titus comes from the fact that I have seen her scumhunt outside of SW (including a healthy suspicion of me) and because I don't think scum would be so bold as to continually push SilverWolf when it's not getting traction. Like, we have people scumreading her for it and forming opposite-alignment preflip associatives. That's not good for scum!Titus and her actions seem more likely to be coming from aggressive town pushing a scumread.

Still confident in my scumreads from my past post, seen nothing new there.

Vedith · Post Post #881 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:01 am

In post 880, GuiltyLion wrote:Vedith you are confused - we do not have a completed game together where I was scum. Was this an honest mistake, did you mistake me for another player?

I thought we did? Maybe I am confusing you but I'll look later.

Vedith · Post Post #882 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:03 am

In post 880, GuiltyLion wrote:It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with this game, but if you are using this 'past game' for a meta read on me then that mistake needs to be sorted.

Noted.
The game I was referring was Midnight Sun.
This may have been Grapes and not you that I am getting confused with then.

Titus · Post Post #883 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:42 am

Flu still kicking my ass. Will catch up later.

pistachi0n · Post Post #884 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:32 am

In post 840, Prolapsed Brain wrote:There are several posts I want to comment on, but they are direct questions to specific people, so I will hold off.

...Why are you holding off on asking people questions?

Titus · Post Post #885 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:57 pm

...I think he's avoiding answering other people's questions.

Aristophanes · Post Post #886 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:47 pm

I think I've cleared my mind enough to come back and reread all of this.
Post will happen late TN/tomorrow once I've re read the thread/reISO'd Titus & SW.

SilverWolf · Post Post #887 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:09 pm

In post 879, Vedith wrote:
PB doesn't strike me as scum. But considering he has even less con tent as me (although he is a standard lurker) this doesn't give much credit.
I also haven't seen much of a case on him from you. Can you suggest the posts for me as I feel I am missing something.

Laid out a case in 585 but here's a few other posts on him from my ISO 340, 509, 549, 587, 591, 600-1st 2 lines, 601, 613.

These should give you some idea of where I stand on him.

Prolapsed Brain · Post Post #888 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:51 pm

In post 884, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 840, Prolapsed Brain wrote:There are several posts I want to comment on, but they are direct questions to specific people, so I will hold off.

...Why are you holding off on asking people questions?

It's rude (and counterproductive) to answer for someone else. Once they're answered, I'll post my thoughts.

Prolapsed Brain · Post Post #889 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:26 pm

In post 880, GuiltyLion wrote:
PB, you didn't answer my question - what do you think of the development of my read on Rob and what does that tell you about my alignment?

Your first mention of Rob (outside of RVS) is in 157, where you say he is "more likely town than not."

I honestly cannot tell whether 160 is more about Rob or more about pistachio (either way, there is no definite read for either).

By 169 you've decided not to townlean read Rob for his pursuit of me.

In 220, you link to 157 and state that you are not scumreading Rob, nor are you townreading him.

In 239, you clarified that you certainly didn't mean to imply you were townreading Rob -- but then, you have no significant reasons to believe he is scum more so than any other player.

In 309 you ask Boon about Rob, but supply no further read yourself.

In 757, you give Rob "more" townpoints, for 531. How can you give a player "more" townpoints when you clearly haven't given them any in the first place?

Also in 757, you tell Rob (for 611) "thank you, thank you thank you" -- I have no idea if this affects your read or not.

In 759, you state that you simply want Titus to acknowledge that Rob is not a universal townread, and you ask her (much as you're asking me now) what she thinks of the subsequent developments of your Rob read.

By 759, Rob is now at the top of your list, as "Most likely town." That was quick and decisive, following seven posts that were highly ambiguous.

So, to answer your question: I think your read wasn't really "developed" at all; as shown above, you were ambiguous, and null, and wishy-washy up until your post 759, when Rob suddenly became very decisive town. I think it reeks of trying to force a read onto a player, and there's only two reasons I can think of for someone to do that: They're lazy town, or they're scum.

Which are you?

SilverWolf · Post Post #890 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:08 pm

That's a pretty good post by PB. I have not seen him post like that before but it's very welcome. Shows active scumhunting.

Rob14 · Post Post #891 (ISO) » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:57 pm

In post 890, SilverWolf wrote:That's a pretty good post by PB. I have not seen him post like that before but it's very welcome. Shows active scumhunting.

Begrudgingly, since it doesn't fit my current reads, I share SW's thoughts on this. I have an additional question for GL: Why have you asked several people how their opinion of you has changed based on your read of me? Why do you care about their opinion of you?

20x100 · Post Post #892 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:55 am

@mod: please replace this slot with Vonflare.

vonflare · Post Post #893 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:56 am

Vedith · Post Post #894 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:00 am

I thought that wg already replaced from that hydra?

vonflare · Post Post #895 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:03 am

SilverWolf · Post Post #896 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:50 am

No wg took over, then they went back to hydra, now von is taking over. Kind of confusing.

Vedith · Post Post #897 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:59 am

Ah, okay...
So Von, any opinions on people?
I assume that you are happy with your Titus vote?

vonflare · Post Post #898 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:01 am

mmmmmmi dont know. wgeurts thought titus was scum but I'm not super sure on that one. I'm going to read some more.

vonflare · Post Post #899 (ISO) » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:06 am

In post 813, Flubbernugget wrote:Page 29

I'm still liking 20x100 for scum but they're probably a wagon worth pursuing at a later time

We'll see what changes in later pages

"I think this player is scum but I won't push them because reasons."

And what does "We'll see what changes in later pages" mean? Are you expecting someone to claim scum?