Secret Alt Mafia 2 – Game over!

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

still pretty happy to kill aristocracy or quailford

also it's p suspicious that phantom hasn't even showed up. given the nature of the game think it's either a v/la we should have been told about or someone who really didn't want a scum pm in this game but got one

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

also it's p suspicious that phantom hasn't even showed up. given the nature of the game think it's either a v/la we should have been told about or someone who really didn't want a scum pm in this game but got one

like i imagine we were all p excited to sign up for this and the most reliable way i know for some people to have that excitement drain away is to draw scum

[Shady]

Shady, stop being a petulant brat. Faking guilties on town isn't cool. Your rhetoric isn't cool. The OMGUS is a personality tell, not any sort of alignment tell. Daycops and Dayvigs are faked so often, they've lost all effect. You're so wrapped up in your own opinion, that you think people should kiss your feet. I think you're town, but it's weaker because of your attitude and how dismissive you were regarding me.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some substantive replies to get to.

ahhh wahhh someone disagreed with me what a brat

could you be any more full of crap right now

[Shady]

concorde seems to have a little difficulty handling criticism

can't reply in full right now gonna have to wait

[Quilford]

• Votecount 1.9
  
  
  Quailford LOL (4)— Dimitri Davidoff, Shiba Tatsuya, Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy, Gumby
  Natural Aristocracy (3)— Shady, You are dead to me, Spider Gwen
  Shiba Tatsuya (2)— Concorde, Megafan1998
  Shady (1)— Natural Aristocracy
  Dimitri Davidoff (1)— Greatvalue
  CellPhone (1)— the_soothsayer
  Gumby (1)— Quailford LOL
  
  
  Not Voting
  (2)— The Phantom of the Opera, CellPhone
  
  It takes 8 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  Deadline hits in (expired on 2015-10-24 08:08:29).
  
  
  Mod notes
  
  
  Please be aware of the rules, especially of those that pertain to activity.
  
  The Phantom of the Opera should be up for a prod around now, but they've been having trouble logging onto their account (hopefully resolved) so I'm going to give them a bit more time.

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

The Phantom of the Opera should be up for a prod around now, but they've been having trouble logging onto their account (hopefully resolved) so I'm going to give them a bit more time.

ok disregard the scum thing then

[the_soothsayer]

Sorry Gwen, I'll be around quite a bit in the next 24 hours though so we should catch each other then.

Catching up bits at a time.

I like the differences in play between Quailford and Dipsy that Shiba elaborates on inside Post 267, becoming even more confident this dudes town. Don't think it's particularly likely that we have a Miller-Rolecop though it has been done twice(?) lately but we don't need that to work out that Gumbys town, the manner he claimed is ridiculously town (Again it's not that he claimed miller, scum can do that it. It's that he didn't instantly claim miller (which is likely what scum would do if they're planning on fake claiming miller or else-wise claim it when guiltied), him holding of claiming thinking he could attempt to just be 'obvtown' and not have to deal with the downsides of the role and the realising he wouldn't be able to do so and thus remedying the situation via claiming makes a

lot

of sense as town). Don't agree with his Shibas read on Gwen in the post at all but the reasoning comes across as genuine.

1) 216 Soothsayer's wall looks like conclusion based reasoning, particularly the interactions with NA. Post 32 does state exactly what Soothsayer says it does not to me, namely the whole scum intention to appear town by getting the game going.

2) Looking at megafan's ISO, I am not seeing how anyone could claim that mega evolved on anything. This townreads may be faked; namely a townreads solely because of where mega's vote is placed.

3) 216 Forgot the Shady null read. Just because someone votes your scumsuspect doesn't warrant praise in a readwall. Shady has provided no analysis whatsoever, and voting town or buddies that are unlikely to be mislynched is a decent tactic for lurker scum

You're missing what I'm saying RE; 1) entirely, my issue is that he thinks GV is scum because he's getting the game going, sure there's some scum motivation behind that but there's also town motivation in doing so, lots of it. So his confidence behind it leading towards GV being scum there was problematic. As for 2) If you read through Megas Post 153 you can see he went from "Shiba is mafia or a bad player" -> "those reads are good so he might be town", I like the change. Is it weak reasoning? Hell yes. It still doesn't change the fact that the progression makes him slightly more likely town even if only minimally so. Megas vote change afterwards was after my post so how you're attempting to link that towards my read on him makes no sense. 3) Seems like a really stupid and meaningless point for you to bring up given that a) He's was in my null reads pile and I never stated that his vote alone there made him more likely town merely that I liked the placement and b) I was after him explaining his reads and reasoning behind the vote to get a better read on him.

220 I don't find NA's 194 to be busy work at all, particularly with Dead's comment in 198. While NA could not have seen 198 at the time of posting 194 (unless they are scum with daychat), people cast such throw away votes a lot and calling people out for that is hardly busiwork.

This just proves that you're not reading the posts you're commenting on at all. Like not even remotely. I didn't think Post 194 was "busywork", I thought the attempt there to cover up scum-tells by insinuating that he was dropping them intentionally was scum motivated. What I thought was busywork was his Post 191 in particular his questions re; lynching and the deadline. I elaborated on exactly this in the post you're quoting.

[the_soothsayer]

Concordes reasoning and logic inside Post 304 and Post 305 make me want to headdesk, it's awful and I don't even think its scummy, just bad. It's very plausible to have a wagon that involves the votee and the votes all being town reads, in fact it's very normal and the fact that it seems a large part of his reasoning behind NA being town involves his main which isn't something he can comment on publicly him avoiding highlighting why he's town makes plenty of sense. It's also normal to dislike the wagons and not want to do anything about it early in the day phase and game, had it been anywhere near deadline or anyone been anywhere near lynch it'd be a different story but at this stage you'd only pipe up if you're either a) Very confident the votee is town (Which it seems he's not for any of them, just leans that way) or b) Have a scum read you're confident in pushing (Again something he's not super sure on).

Meganfan please tell me there's more to your Shiba vote in Post 331 than him having a null read on you and a scum read on Cell (ie. Your Post 327) because I also have a scum read on Cell (And am currently voting him) while having several null reads on players that have posted far more than Cell. So 1) How are you differentiating Shibas and my actions here given that you've got a town read on me and 2) What happened to you leaning towards Shiba being town?

[the_soothsayer]

Don't like Quailford maintaining his scum read on Gumby and Shiba, really don't like how little his reads have changed despite the influx of content. Especially don't like him suggesting that Gumby should reread his own posts while claiming to have him as scum in Post 333, not a natural way to interact with a scum read at all.

Really like that Dipsy noticed the same thing in Post 348. Also growing very confident he's town.

Shady, not kidding really want your explanation behind your NA scum read (Other than his vote not having moved and his reaction towards your "guilty") and not buying the "guilty" at all (I'd put the bank on Quilford not involving a day or pregame type cop in his setup not to mention your play doesn't match having one anyway) so the gambit really needs to end. Also want some town reads from you.

Megafan, you're going to also have to explain the Quailford town read for me since I'm not seeing it at all. I can still possibly buy this whole thing be him intentionally trolling as a gimmick as both alignments but in no way see any of his posts as town-tells.

[Natural Aristocracy]

Well, I guess I can mark Spider Gwen down as yet another player who thinks I'm 'fencesitting' because I can say more than one thing about something.

I don't like the Quailford wagon--the reasons why people are on it make sense from their PoV, but I don't like its composition and I'm not crazy about Quailford as scum on top of that.
It seems weird that Dimitri, Dipsy, and Shiba are all there given how much they've had differing thoughts earlier on. Gumby is probably the only one I wouldn't fault for being on that wagon, as Quailford has been lingering with a Gumby vote for awhile. I don't trust Dipsy's judgment at all and I think Dimitri has been swinging for the fences with really easy votes without putting in much else.

I don't think Quailford's posting has been amazing, to be honest. There's a sort of carefree and hands-off approach going on that's contrary to how a lot of us are tackling this game, so I can't really make heads or tails of it. Ultimately, I feel like there are far better candidates for lynching today and while Quailford isn't some shining bastion of town, dude isn't the scummiest by a longshot.

I should probably be supporting this wagon, because I think Soothsayer's comments on Quailford are pretty spot-on and because I'm likely going to be lynched if it doesn't go through, but, hey, fuck it, sticking to my guns here.

[CellPhone]

In other news, Qualford is town, I think I may know who Dead guy is, which makes him likely town, and Gumby is still scum.

Unvote
Vote Gumby

P-edit: Kill it with fire!

scum

Which specific circumstances would "allow" you to play obvtown?

"not getting caught" LOL

scum

gumby is town af and these people mistakenly think they can deride him for an easy bad lynch

Only scum can come up with such easy scumreads. The two above are probtown.

[the_soothsayer]

Like that Shadys thoughts on a lot of Concordes content in Post 358 mirrors mine. Same goes for Post 376.

Not a fan of NAs Post 359, him wanting to keep his vote on Dimitri until he gets a reaction from him is entirely fine and understandable but his stance on Quailford and the wagon on him being "wagon makes sense" and "wagon isn't great" in the exact same post is weird, people aren't suggesting to lynch Quailford right here and now so if he thinks there's some valid reasoning behind suspecting Quailford then it's worthwhile to have the votes to pressure him, also think it's far far far too early to worry about wagon composition and who's voting together unless you're really confident in particular reads, we're less than 48 hours into the game. Similarly dislike the "Last person that fake claimed was scum" reasoning in Post 365 behind his vote on Shady, it's dreadful reasoning, fake guiltys and day vigs etc occur frequently (Though this really needs to stop, it's not good play at all) and if anything they come slightly more from town overall.

Eh, Concordes Post 394 actually comes across as very town, his frustration with Shady while subsequently taking the stance that he's leaning towards him being town here (And his attitude towards Shady inside Post 396) is something unlikely to come from scum.

Don't like Cells Post 410 too, hoping that it's just the start of his catching up.

[CellPhone]

hoping that it's just the start of his catching up.

It is. Much, much more to come.

[CellPhone]

I'd be willing to vote for you. Not going to now for a few ~reasons~, but know that you're on the list.

oh no

Well.... I am now reconsidering my thoughts on Dipsy Doodle. This is a solid town reaction to the threat of a vote.

[Shiba Tatsuya]

bullshit

how do u have a read off of cellphones one post but not off of any of mine

Considering how little they've posted, I'll pass for now. I'll revisit next time, and hopefully they've posted more.

wtf??!

how can u form a cell phone read but literally have nothing on me

bulshit

Firstly, my sincerest apologies. I forgot to pen down your name when planning for my earlier post. I understand how frustrating it is for another less deserving player to receive my mention instead of yourself. I promise to give you the attention you so deserve in the next installment.

Spoiler: Post 190 Response

190 You have been arguing that Dispy is not doing analysis but just attacking.

Thoughts on Dimitri?

Scum. And his posts are artificial. Which means he's scum.

calling 'artificial' a scum tell in a game full of secret alts, lol ok whatever you say

trying to rely on old rules = scum doesn't know how to approach this game

Disagreement doesn't indicate a lack of analysis Spider. It's not a towntell though either. These posts can be useful post flip, but I don't see this as avoiding scumhunting. Some people are just naturally hostile rather than inquisitive. Skilled scum can have reasons for actions that seem plausible on the surface.

198 Any wagon can go to lynch at any time. If you felt GV was not going to be lynched ever, why wouldn't you move to a train that could be?

210 Personality tells have no bearing on alignment.

216 Soothsayer's wall looks like conclusion based reasoning, particularly the interactions with NA. Post 32 does state exactly what Soothsayer says it does not to me, namely the whole scum intention to appear town by getting the game going. I do think Dispy needs to clear up why his vote is where it is. However, the lack of grammar makes 155 by Dipsy harder to understand. Dipsy is doing multiple back to back catchup posts.

Not a fan of the slimy rhetoric getting tossed around here again.

Looking at megafan's ISO, I am not seeing how anyone could claim that mega evolved on anything. This townreads may be faked; namely a townreads solely because of where mega's vote is placed.

More in a bit.

216 Forgot the Shady null read. Just because someone votes your scumsuspect doesn't warrant praise in a readwall. Shady has provided no analysis whatsoever, and voting town or buddies that are unlikely to be mislynched is a decent tactic for lurker scum.

220 I don't find NA's 194 to be busy work at all, particularly with Dead's comment in 198. While NA could not have seen 198 at the time of posting 194 (unless they are scum with daychat), people cast such throw away votes a lot and calling people out for that is hardly busiwork.

229 You have a townreads on the biggest wagon, yet you tell people it's ok to lynch him? Pick a side.

232 I don't like the alt hunting here. People can identify as whatever they want in a secret alt game. People also impersonate others. The fact SN supposes that someone is telling the truth regarding their gender claim makes no sense regardles of what alignment the claimer is.

233 I like this post. It's a little over aggressive but the pronouns would make it hard to follow in an ISO. I was stating that most everyone who agreed with Dead's reads was wagoned after Dead's wagon fell apart, so I am more inclined to believe Dead's reads (including town on NA) were more accurate at the time than now.

Normally, I would thoroughly dismantle these excruciatingly wrong posts point-by-point, but it appears that the kind Shady, as well as valiant soothsayer have already done so for me. Thank you Shady. Thank you soothsayer.

These posts by Concorde, of course, strengthen my scumread on him.

Would you like to comment on my reads? Do you disagree with any of them? If so, could you provide some explanation as to why?

Me! Me! Me! I'd like to comment! I am town, therefore I find your reads to be tainted.

Given that both scum and town would make the statement "I am town" in such a scenario, I'm afraid that this doesn't help me to determine your alignment better. Could you try something better?

Gumby & scumteam discussed the fakeclaim in the scum PT. By the time they decided to get on with the plan, Gumby had already made a few posts.

They must be really slow in discussion then, because I recall being extremely impatient with that last person who had yet to confirm (probably Phantom of the Opera).

hey wise guy for this to make sense they would have planned it in that surprisingly lengthy confirmation phase and not have strung it out for a bunch of posts before making the play

you haven't thought about this at all

hey everyone it's because he's scum and gumby is town

I fully agree with this post. There is a negative connection between Quailford and Gumby, and if one flips scum, I'm treating the other as confirmed town. I sincerely do not believe that two buddies would interact like this.

I'm actually interested in playing up the Shady/Concorde beef because I'm not a huge fan of Shady and I liked Concorde's reads and explanations. I'm interested in them butting heads.

this, btw, is cheerleading while contributing nothing

It's not cheerleading if Concorde is scum. However, if Concorde is town, then I'll revisit my Natural Aristocracy read. But not now.

@Shady: I disagree with Concorde about Shiba too, but he does have a point regarding Shiba townreading NA and the entire wagon. You'd think Shiba would have done something by now, but he hasn't.

I don't have to do anything at this stage. The game has been ongoing for 48 hours; it is good for the gamestate to create wagons and lock in stances that we can analyze later with flips and associations. Any votes on anyone helps progress the game. I discourage votes on NA, but I'm only going to raise my hand if the time is right.

358 snip

I'll respond fully to 358 in the following post. Shady doesn't have to answer for me; I can fight my own battles. He can chip in if I've missed anything in my argument.

Well, I guess I can mark Spider Gwen down as yet another player who thinks I'm 'fencesitting' because I can say more than one thing about something.

I don't like the Quailford wagon--the reasons why people are on it make sense from their PoV, but I don't like its composition and I'm not crazy about Quailford as scum on top of that.
It seems weird that Dimitri, Dipsy, and Shiba are all there given how much they've had differing thoughts earlier on. Gumby is probably the only one I wouldn't fault for being on that wagon, as Quailford has been lingering with a Gumby vote for awhile. I don't trust Dipsy's judgment at all and I think Dimitri has been swinging for the fences with really easy votes without putting in much else.

I don't think Quailford's posting has been amazing, to be honest. There's a sort of carefree and hands-off approach going on that's contrary to how a lot of us are tackling this game, so I can't really make heads or tails of it. Ultimately, I feel like there are far better candidates for lynching today and while Quailford isn't some shining bastion of town, dude isn't the scummiest by a longshot.

I should probably be supporting this wagon, because I think Soothsayer's comments on Quailford are pretty spot-on and because I'm likely going to be lynched if it doesn't go through, but, hey, fuck it, sticking to my guns here.

Natural Aristocracy, when I read this post, I wanted to punch you. Don't discredit a wagon that I'm leading when you don't even have a townread on him. Allow the wagon to naturally form so that we can obtain a better read on Quailford, rather than the alternative of leaving him in the "posting hasn't been amazing" tier. You can consider doing something more productive, such as absolving yourself of your own wagon first.

[Shiba Tatsuya]

ST literally says for people to not townread his townread. He is actively encouraging scumreads and thus lynching his townread.

I told players to not townread NA for a certain action X, which I know to be a null tell. This does not necessarily equate to "actively encouraging scumreads". You should consider reading posts in context, because when you don't, it makes you look dumb.

Yes, alt hunting is scummy. You know precisely a person's weak points and strong points are to manipulate them. Focusing on that rather than scumhunting is scummy.

Manipulation can be done as town and as scum. Town manipulation includes getting others to sheep a wagon that you want. Scum manipulation, of course, is to get people to townread you when they shouldn't. Apart from this point, knowing a person's identity also gives you their tells and pointers on how to read them better. I'm surprised that the term "manipulation" was the first thing that came to your mind.

Additionally, althunting is a subset of scumhunting. My theory is that a poor scumhunter is also probably a poor althunter. If one cannot determine the generic tells for actions that town and scum would do, how can they further recognize the specific quirks and tells of an individual?

What are

your

thoughts on using althunting to augment scumhunting?

Quilford and Daisy both have content, even if I am scumreading Quilford for his. The comparison is littered through ST's so-called catch up. ST's comparison read there is utter shit.

Are you scumreading Quailford? That's interesting to note. I certainly didn't get that vibe upon reading your posts earlier. Why are you not joining the larger wagon on your scumread?

Using a rolecop on obvious town, if one exists, is pointless. If anyone actually townie seriously doubts Gumby's alignment, sure cop him. I'd rather scum actually be required to stick with and create bullshit early than verifying someone townie is who they claim to be. That's why copping Gumby's scummy.

I'm not sure that Gumby's a universal townread, and you may need to prove your point rather than making blanket statements based off your uninformed opinion.

Oh now we get onto this weasel buzzword crap you're spewing. Most people reconsider their read on a wagon if pushed all by townreads or they reconsider the townreads on the people pushing the wagon. Highlighting this is not "weasely" in any sense of the word. You're not even disagreeing with my assessment either which is my main point of doubt with you.

Any Day 1 lynch by definition consists of a majority of town. A townread can be pushed by a majority of town. I'm not sure why you think there is a contradiction when 1. I did not state that the NA wagon was all town. 2. There were only a maximum of 4 votes on NA at any point of time 3. It's only 24 hours into the game and it would be unwise to draw any associative assumptions at this point in time.

You're supposing that ST is playing a really short game here. ST, by town reading most of the active voices, us engaging in buddying. Second, if NA is a mislynch (which should be obvious given the lack of obvtown pushing the wagon triggering your guilty claim), ST has no reason to discourage it.

Townreading "most of the active voices" is considered buddying to you? That's peculiar. If one townreads the universal townreads when he replaces into a game, is that considered buddying to you too?

Did you legitimately believe Shady's guilty claim?!

None of my attacks are cheap and weasely. So yes, ST will answer them. No you will not dare have your arrogance or remote possibility of being scum with ST stop me from getting said answers.

I'm afraid that three individual players agree that your attacks are cheap and weasely. Currently, Shady, myself, and soothsayer hold this opinion. You are welcome to call us all scum, but I'm not sure how effective that will help your argument.

[Concorde]

414 - ST, your post here is way off with your NA read still. There have been quite a few large themes where players are put on the defensive lately by well-meaning scum and town that town players never shook off because they were always placed on the defensive.

Your comment here about letting wagons and associations form naturally and that you'd stop NA if the wagon got too high is in direct contradiction to you telling NA to act unnaturally an let your wagon go through.

If you really wanted natural reactions, you should want NA's natural reaction to your vote. Instead, you tell him to be useful by being on defense. NA can determine a read by seeing who jumps on or off after he calls the wagon crap and why.

Being on the defensive constantly is something many people read as scummy.

[Shiba Tatsuya]

Being on the defensive constantly is something many people read as scummy.

Correct.

I am fully prepared to handle such a scenario.

[Concorde]

415 Crying "not in context" when I catch precisely what you are doing. That doesn't make me "dumb" but just reinforces my scumread on you.

Althunting instead of scumhunting is scummy. One is not a subset of the other. Althunting should only be done after you determine someone's alignment not before.

I am not as confident in my Quailford read as my scumread on you and some of the people voting him are rather sketchy. That makes me not want to get on that wagon.

Gumby's not a universal townreads, but that's because scum, such as yourself doubtcasted him. Obvious town is obvious. Eventually I will PoE this.

A day one lynch most likely consists of all town. That doesn't mean town pushed the wagon, and we both know that's moving the goal posts since you were arguing town were pushing NA who is also town.

Drawing associative reads is perfectly fine at any point as long as the reads are revised with evidence.

Yeah, town reading everyone who is active is pretty obvious buddying. If no one's around who is scumreading you, you won't be lynched. Plus lurkers are easy pushes. If someone townreads all the major voices on subbing in, then there better be a lot of scum lynches by said town leaders. Otherwise, yes it's probably buddying.

I don't believe Shady's guilty claim. Fake guilty claims come from places where town and scum cannot get obvious town mislynched. That was my point.

Shady throws around the word weasely and you're obviously going to seize on that due to your role PM. As for soothsayer, he disagrees with me but that doesn't mean he thinks my attacking you is weasely. That's an association attempt as you want to have that word associated with me.

You can take your Pop Warner psychology classes and realize two can play that game. I am better though. NA is only getting lynched over my dead body right now.

Fight me.

[Concorde]

still pretty happy to kill aristocracy or quailford

also it's p suspicious that phantom hasn't even showed up. given the nature of the game think it's either a v/la we should have been told about or someone who really didn't want a scum pm in this game but got one

First part, no on NA. Meh on Quailford because scum tried to get me to vote him.

I can roll with the second.

I know your alt too.

[Spider Gwen]

You are wrong about the double talk explanation here. He's taking a clear position. Quilford wagon sucks. The people pushing it are making mountains out of molehills. That's not double talk at all.

He says he doesn't like the Quailford wagon and then immediately says the wagon on Quailford is good. And that's not the only time he does that in those 2 sentences. He constantly contradicts himself and never takes a stand.

The butting heads comment, do you seriously tink scum would want to rile up town and be so blantant? Don't think so. Dude's town.

Is he riling up town though? He just sat back and did nothing (which is his MO this game) while making a big deal about how he wants to see 2 people fight for no particular reason. That's fencesitting.

---

i know why you described gumby as scummy. you thought he voted shiba when he should have voted dead. i thought it was pretty uninteresting as a reason and the claim should definitely have got you thinking more than it did because something like that is a much bigger deal for figuring out someone's alignment than one or two posts that you could easily have been misinterpreting.

The timing of the claim was incredibly scummy. He starts getting suspected by several players and then throws up his hands and cries Miller. I wanted that dead. And let's not even get into his statement about his ability to obv. town if he needs to and how that contradicts what just happened with his miller claim.

take responsibility for the words you wrote. the fact that you wrote a blanket statement made it look like you were not considering the nuance of a secret alt game. you phrased it in the simplest way possible.

Screw you. You knew what I meant when I wrote that, otherwise you wouldn't be talking about the old ways of doing things, which focuses on whether a post is genuine or not. Don't try to weasel out of this by shifting the blame onto me.

"everyone voting for gumby is scum" is a policy thing, stop being dense. general, policy, functionally the same. but i didn't do that. i pointed out specific posts and said why i thought those posts were indicative of scum

Bull crap. You only pushed those who were pushing Gumby as scum. And no, you didn't give reasons. You just pointed at our posts and said scum and then followed that up with some BS about scum trying to push the miller claim. Town would have stepped back and looked at that wagon and what happened. Only 2 people on the wagon likely meant scum was not messing with Gumby's claim if he was town. At most you had 1 scum on there, meaning your job should have been to figure out which vote was the scum one. You didn't do that. You just made a blanket statement of "everybody on this wagon (which was everyone pushing him) is scum". Stop trying to evade responsibility with this semantics BS.

[Megafan1998]

i honestly hate this game its lik some1 collected the most boring posters on this site and put them al in 1 game

[Megafan1998]

can we lync shibe boy now

[Gumby]

"everyone voting for gumby is scum" is a policy thing, stop being dense. general, policy, functionally the same. but i didn't do that. i pointed out specific posts and said why i thought those posts were indicative of scum

Bull crap. You only pushed those who were pushing Gumby as scum. And no, you didn't give reasons. You just pointed at our posts and said scum and then followed that up with some BS about scum trying to push the miller claim. Town would have stepped back and looked at that wagon and what happened. Only 2 people on the wagon likely meant scum was not messing with Gumby's claim if he was town. At most you had 1 scum on there, meaning your job should have been to figure out which vote was the scum one. You didn't do that. You just made a blanket statement of "everybody on this wagon (which was everyone pushing him) is scum". Stop trying to evade responsibility with this semantics BS.

However much I'm townleaning Dipsy right now, this is a good point.

If we're gonna decide who was scum on my wagon, it was fairly obviously Quailford. It's mostly common sense but I'll probably explain it more detailed in a little bit.

i honestly hate this game its lik some1 collected the most boring posters on this site and put them al in 1 game

I'd rather have boring useful people than silly useless people.

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

The timing of the claim was incredibly scummy. He starts getting suspected by several players and then throws up his hands and cries Miller. I wanted that dead. And let's not even get into his statement about his ability to obv. town if he needs to and how that contradicts what just happened with his miller claim.

that's not any different to how a town player behaves if they draw miller and think at the start of the game that they would be best off not mentioning it. knowing that the claim itself invites suspicion only makes it more likely that it will come out incredibly quickly under suspicion because you essentially take on the scum persona of having something to hide, so you feel it much more keenly when people suspect you and it snowballs. the timing of the claim seems null. way it was handled reads town

and since when does someone thinking they can be obvtown have anything to do with how obvtown they actually are. 95% of people on this site, myself included, think they're better than they are

take responsibility for the words you wrote. the fact that you wrote a blanket statement made it look like you were not considering the nuance of a secret alt game. you phrased it in the simplest way possible.

Screw you. You knew what I meant when I wrote that, otherwise you wouldn't be talking about the old ways of doing things, which focuses on whether a post is genuine or not. Don't try to weasel out of this by shifting the blame onto me.

you're always going to assume that you communicated your thought in the way you intended. but you didn't. there's nothing else to say to this that isn't exactly what i've already said so i'm done

"everyone voting for gumby is scum" is a policy thing, stop being dense. general, policy, functionally the same. but i didn't do that. i pointed out specific posts and said why i thought those posts were indicative of scum

Bull crap. You only pushed those who were pushing Gumby as scum. And no, you didn't give reasons. You just pointed at our posts and said scum and then followed that up with some BS about scum trying to push the miller claim. Town would have stepped back and looked at that wagon and what happened. Only 2 people on the wagon likely meant scum was not messing with Gumby's claim if he was town. At most you had 1 scum on there, meaning your job should have been to figure out which vote was the scum one. You didn't do that. You just made a blanket statement of "everybody on this wagon (which was everyone pushing him) is scum". Stop trying to evade responsibility with this semantics BS.

playing to expected values of scum presence in x wagon is dumb. i read individual posts and looked for scum behaviour in them. you're demanding a thought process from me that if you were honest with yourself i don't think you'd be able to say that more than a generous 10% of town players actually use, regardless of merit

again i'm only going to go in circles here and i lean town on you so i have no interest in going round again. it would be nice if there were someone else scumreading gumby in a better way somehow so that you/quailford could stand in contrast but your refusal to engage with the notion that just because i objected to the only two gumby scumreads doesn't mean i would have objected to every one were there more is irritating

the sample size is two ffs