Newbie 1654 - A Game of Poker [POKER GAME OVERRAN]

[Espeonage]

What makes your focus switch from me to Espeon?

Because I have youself, overflow and Esp as scum and I really don't see you and overflow teamed here.

That's actually really dangerous and bad thinking. Couple this with the self town claim you make by calling something that is not a town slip, a town slip and you are starting to look p bad.

How is it not a town slip? It clearly looks like CW had no idea how the setup for this game worked.

I have seen some shit man, nothing is off the cards. You think something's not possible and then the next game, it happens. But no seriously, not understanding the setup is not indicitive of anything.

[LicketyQuickety]

I expect some kind of defence from Esp in my 366 cuz its going to look bad for them if they don't.

[LicketyQuickety]

What makes your focus switch from me to Espeon?

Because I have youself, overflow and Esp as scum and I really don't see you and overflow teamed here.

That's actually really dangerous and bad thinking. Couple this with the self town claim you make by calling something that is not a town slip, a town slip and you are starting to look p bad.

How is it not a town slip? It clearly looks like CW had no idea how the setup for this game worked.

I have seen some shit man, nothing is off the cards. You think something's not possible and then the next game, it happens. But no seriously, not understanding the setup is not indicitive of anything.

Actually I know what you mean. My last game 'A Midnight Sun' by 4nxi3ty was one game where Scum played in a way that I have never seen before. Maybe it was just a higher level game or something. I'd like to ask you sometime why you bailed out that game -maybe I'll even get an answer.

[Espeonage]

Shrug, it's p true tbh. (the bit about me claiming I'm unorthodox and seeing what happens)

[Espeonage]

What makes your focus switch from me to Espeon?

Because I have youself, overflow and Esp as scum and I really don't see you and overflow teamed here.

That's actually really dangerous and bad thinking. Couple this with the self town claim you make by calling something that is not a town slip, a town slip and you are starting to look p bad.

How is it not a town slip? It clearly looks like CW had no idea how the setup for this game worked.

I have seen some shit man, nothing is off the cards. You think something's not possible and then the next game, it happens. But no seriously, not understanding the setup is not indicitive of anything.

Actually I know what you mean. My last game 'A Midnight Sun' by 4nxi3ty was one game where Scum played in a way that I have never seen before. Maybe it was just a higher level game or something. I'd like to ask you sometime why you bailed out that game -maybe I'll even get an answer.

Never hydra with me.

[LicketyQuickety]

Shrug, it's p true tbh. (the bit about me claiming I'm unorthodox and seeing what happens)

I thought self meta was pretty Scummy by most standards.

[Espeonage]

Saying I am unorthodox isn't self meta. Claiming that playing the way I am is town indicitive would be.

[LicketyQuickety]

Saying I am unorthodox isn't self meta. Claiming that playing the way I am is town indicitive would be.

Semantics.

[Espeonage]

Truth and definitions. The attempted trapping is noted though.

[Espeonage]

Both counts.

[LicketyQuickety]

Truth and definitions. The attempted trapping is noted though.

Good, glad you have a town read on me then.

[Espeonage]

bruh

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah? What's up?

[Espeonage]

You andI bothknowIam not townreadingyou.

[0verfl0w]

What makes your focus switch from me to Espeon?

Because I have youself, overflow and Esp as scum and I really don't see you and overflow teamed here.

Really? I think makara and I would make quite a great scum team. Seriously though, can you explain your scumread on me?

@Kim I'd like to see your scumread theory as well. You seem town to me, and I'd like to know how you're reading.

[makara]

@overflow what are your thoughts on lickety and espeonage?

[LicketyQuickety]

You andI bothknowIam not townreadingyou.

Actually I did not know that. Last thing you said about any kind of read on me was that my entrance was cool. So what changed? you have to admit it take a pretty seasoned player to play the way I am playing as Scum and I just don't have that experience.

[LicketyQuickety]

What makes your focus switch from me to Espeon?

Because I have youself, overflow and Esp as scum and I really don't see you and overflow teamed here.

Really? I think makara and I would make quite a great scum team. Seriously though, can you explain your scumread on me?

@Kim I'd like to see your scumread theory as well. You seem town to me, and I'd like to know how you're reading.

It has nothing to do with how great or poor you would be as Scum buddies. Its more of a POE thing more than anything why I am Scum reading you.

[pieguyn]

PantherPunt has been prodded.

[Kim]

Well, my theorized scumteam involved LicketyQuickety. After sleeping, starving a bunch of Banished settlers, and rereading, I'm not a big fan of my associative theory now. So, I won't mention who the second player was until we know LQ's alignment.

It really doesn't feel like Day 2's changed a lot for me. Like other people think, Panther and Vedith both feel town to me -- Vedith maybe a little less so. I'm still leaning town on 0verfl0w and makara -- I think 0verfl0w's had a better Day 2, but makara had the better Day 1.

Espeonage is like the Mafia embodiment of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. He seems to be ready to die in 316 -- which, if we're going to keep him out of LyLo like he wants us to, needs to be really soon. I'm normally not the kind of person to let requests like that go unfulfilled -- TSO linked earlier to his Masquerade game where he said he wanted to be lynched and ended up winning as scum -- but I'd rather at least look for other scum.

That leaves LQ. There's the bad argument against makara -- I went and reread the thread up to LQ's vote on makara, paying attention to when he replied. I saw nothing that indicated his "timing" was bad -- he doesn't seem to be on 24/7, but that's not a scumtell. CW's scummy appearance has been stated before. LQ's claim in 345 that CW's 63 was a town slip seems like the kind of thing he should have mentioned in 303 when he said he thought he was "replacing into a scum slot," seeing as CW's contribution literally consisted of 5 sentences and 2 votes and couldn't have been too stressful to read.

Nosferatu is probably town.

is this a soft cop claim or just a town read/gut feeling?

How is it not a town slip? It clearly looks like CW had no idea how the setup for this game worked.

There is no way that the scum could know whether or not town had a cop based on the Matrix6 setup and the role assignments they received. A scum CW could definitely get information from a total n00b that replied to that. Not only is it not "clear," I can't see how you can argue that this was town-alignment-indicative.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

L-2

but I could be convinced to vote for Espeonage (though probably not by LQ)

[LicketyQuickety]

So your case that I am Scum is because I have said thing that I had to reassess. I suppose that is fair. I can link many many games where I have made contradictions like that as Town. Some people actually think my Scum game is more Towning than my Town game fwiw.

Kim, why don't you like my case on Esp or markara? I was getting caught up, and rereading the thread. I have brought to the table some things that have not previously been talked about. It is a lot more difficult to make that kind of stuff up as Scum, wouldn't you agree?

All that said I kinda think Kim has a confirmation bias against me.

[Kim]

So your case that I am Scum is because I have said thing that I had to reassess. I suppose that is fair. I can link many many games where I have made contradictions like that as Town. Some people actually think my Scum game is more Towning than my Town game fwiw.

Noted. I also considered the actions of CW, of course, and your flip-flop on your assessment of him.

Kim, why don't you like my case on Esp or markara? I was getting caught up, and rereading the thread. I have brought to the table some things that have not previously been talked about. It is a lot more difficult to make that kind of stuff up as Scum, wouldn't you agree?

A large part of your case against them seems to be the process of elimination -- you think Panther, Vedith and I are town, so therefore 2 of 0ver, Esp, and makara are scum. Per 366, you're saying that since 0ver/makara doesn't make sense to you, Esp is the best target to lynch now. I'm sure you understand why I disagree with that. (You also have post 290, but you took that back in 299 before I could look closely at it. Is that part of your current case?)

I've never actually been scum, but I would think that you'd still reread and analyze the game in the same way that townies would. You'd build the case against the scummy-looking townie and try to get them mislynched. The fact that they aren't actually scum doesn't really matter -- it just might make it harder.

All that said I kinda think Kim has a confirmation bias against me.

I've made a good faith effort to avoid that, but obviously I can't be the final judge of that.

[LicketyQuickety]

So your case that I am Scum is because I have said thing that I had to reassess. I suppose that is fair. I can link many many games where I have made contradictions like that as Town. Some people actually think my Scum game is more Towning than my Town game fwiw.

Noted. I also considered the actions of CW, of course, and your flip-flop on your assessment of him.

At the most CW's actions should be Null/Scum. It should not be means for a big Scum read. Its not that difficult to see that CW was just bored with the pace of this game most likely.

Kim, why don't you like my case on Esp or markara? I was getting caught up, and rereading the thread. I have brought to the table some things that have not previously been talked about. It is a lot more difficult to make that kind of stuff up as Scum, wouldn't you agree?

A large part of your case against them seems to be the process of elimination -- you think Panther, Vedith and I are town, so therefore 2 of 0ver, Esp, and makara are scum. Per 366, you're saying that since 0ver/makara doesn't make sense to you, Esp is the best target to lynch now. I'm sure you understand why I disagree with that. (You also have post 290, but you took that back in 299 before I could look closely at it. Is that part of your current case?)

I've never actually been scum, but I would think that you'd still reread and analyze the game in the same way that townies would. You'd build the case against the scummy-looking townie and try to get them mislynched. The fact that they aren't actually scum doesn't really matter -- it just might make it harder.

No I don't get why its hard to believe. Both are my true perspective. Perhaps I am doing a bit of confirmation bias as well.

All that said I kinda think Kim has a confirmation bias against me.

I've made a good faith effort to avoid that, but obviously I can't be the final judge of that.

It really is a giant to get over confirmation bias for most people.


Kim I think what you might be missing is that Scum have what's called a guilty complex. It mean they subconsciously know that they should get caught. I am not the one who came up with this either btw. Look it up.

[Kim]

A large part of your case against them seems to be the process of elimination -- you think Panther, Vedith and I are town, so therefore 2 of 0ver, Esp, and makara are scum. Per 366, you're saying that since 0ver/makara doesn't make sense to you, Esp is the best target to lynch now. I'm sure you understand why I disagree with that. (You also have post 290, but you took that back in 299 before I could look closely at it. Is that part of your current case?)

I've never actually been scum, but I would think that you'd still reread and analyze the game in the same way that townies would. You'd build the case against the scummy-looking townie and try to get them mislynched. The fact that they aren't actually scum doesn't really matter -- it just might make it harder.

No I don't get why its hard to believe. Both are my true perspective. Perhaps I am doing a bit of confirmation bias as well.

It's logical from your point of view (or at least the one you're presenting), where you're 100% town. I don't have that piece of information, so I would still see four potential scum among those two. Therefore, I'd still have to consider the L/0, L/E, and L/m pairings -- and therefore, I don't come to the same conclusions you do. I'm not sure I'd call that "confirmation bias" -- that's more of an issue of private vs. public knowledge.

Kim I think what you might be missing is that Scum have what's called a guilty complex. It mean they subconsciously know that they should get caught. I am not the one who came up with this either btw. Look it up.

I'm willing to look into it, but I couldn't find it on the wiki. The only thing I found with Google was N1601's scum thread where they talked about having a guilt complex if the game had a night start and they had to kill someone who hadn't played yet. Do you have any links? (Actually looking at any such links would have to wait until "tomorrow," since it's getting close to 3:00a here.)

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm not really sure what the formal name for the guilt complex thing, but just search guilt in the search box and you'll get like 250 pages worth of stuff to look through. I am not at all the first person to come up with this. Esp probably knows who's theory it is but I've only seen the quote once.