Mini 1727: Legends of the Hidden Temple II - Game Over!


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Post Post #1625 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:01 pm

Post by Elbirn »

In post 1623, Titus wrote:@Vyse, I am trying to show why I see Elbrin as scum because of that's how the strategy fits. The why is much more important than the what, unless there's a contradiction. Elbrin's reason for this is a contradiction too.


Titus your first mistake in trying to push a mislynch on me was failing to realize that my scum game is absolute shit. Ask vyse.

I'd say to ask suzune but she's lying about my scumgame being good for some unholy reason *stares at, growls*

Point being your hypothesis relies on me being good scum when I'm not.

Also everyone here who knows me from previous games can see I'm bleeding obvious town

Anyway titus yeah my beef with you, Mon friere, is that you have pushed every counterwagon to scum in this entire game and are maybe even doing so right now re: moi.

I also find your supposed VCA self serving and not wholly truthful.

And basically

Just

Idk if we can be friends anymore
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Post Post #1626 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:05 pm

Post by Suzune »

Titus, I fail to see what can be gained from this. I have learned a lot mind you, but to what point. What do you hope to gain. You learn a tad about how I think but I am not actually Elbrin. 1,500 words for situation one. I don't even write that many when I am the serial killer trying to look down the line. Situation one is done, but I am tired and not sure if I want to run the other one.
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Post Post #1627 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:06 pm

Post by Suzune »

In post 1625, Elbirn wrote:I'd say to ask suzune but she's lying about my scumgame being good for some unholy reason *stares at, growls*
I thought your scum game was good. *Shrug* just my opinion on the matter.
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Post Post #1628 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:07 pm

Post by VysePresident »

Elb, be ready to chat with me later tonight?

I wanna 'bus' Titus. :P
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Post Post #1629 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:08 pm

Post by Elbirn »

OH YEAH, I almost forgot.

It really bugs me that VCA is supposedly such a huge part of your town game, so much that you have to push on me for not allowing a davsto v. Vyse 1v1 (if that would have even happened...)

Yet you don't even DO any VCA until me and davsto ask you to (dav practically has to beg) and then we get some lackluster nonsense that serves your own interests.

Yeah...nah.
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Post Post #1630 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:08 pm

Post by VysePresident »

And if anyone puts me into hammer range right now, I'm going to be so mad. :P
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Post Post #1631 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:09 pm

Post by Davsto »

Okay ugh let me say something, im really thinking a Vyse/Titus scumteam right now.

Titus wanted a me/Vyse challenge. If I get lynched, free mislynch, and if Vyse gets lynched, she'll be seen as having put her partner in the firing line and potentially get twoncred for it.

On the other hand she threw a right tantrum at the challenge today, maybe that is because she knows Elbirn won't be lynched and thus a scum lynch is likely.

Just some theory crafting.

@Vyse - you still haven't answered about your scumread on me
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Post Post #1632 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:09 pm

Post by Elbirn »

In post 1628, VysePresident wrote:Elb, be ready to chat with me later tonight?

I wanna 'bus' Titus. :P


What is "later" and "tonight"? It's 1am my time and I dream of a world where I finally have normal sleeping hours

But yeah by all means
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Post Post #1633 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:11 pm

Post by Suzune »

Well to ally myself with Titus for a minute. With his two favorite people Elbrin and Vyse rallying against him, it looks more like it proves his point. It would be the mafia advancing towards

2.3 Titus is not my teammate and freaks out that I jumped her lynch pitches a case against me. While it would be very difficult it would not be within the odds of not happening. Given such a potential I will have to act in a way that makes Titus look bad. This will inspire the town to lynch titus. Since Titus is not my partner. I would be free to go on a get Vyse lynched the next day. Titus Lynch.

Advantages: Titus is a dangerous player in this game and his paranoia is easy to rattle. The further I am able to rattle you the less credible you become. Thus I can turn the tide of the game against you by blowing holes in your arguments. When your credibility is low enough I can have you lynched. If Vyse if my partner then this clears Vyse a little bit, especially if he chimes in and stands against Titus. Firebringer is a swing vote so I cannot promise to know how he will behave and if it is logical enough and credible enough Suzune will fall for it too because she already suspects titus. The disadvantage is the difficultly that potentially comes from pushing Titus or anyone when they are fighting hard for the town. Thus there are less certain odds, but with all things the higher the danger the better the chance of victory. With Titus out of the way, the game will fall pretty easily to the mafia because David will push to lynch those outside the town block. From there keeping Vyse alive will be tough but from the standpoint of myself, I would have saftety. A mafia win but a precarious one.

One of those awesome situations I ran for Titus...
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Post Post #1634 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:12 pm

Post by Titus »

@Elbrin, My hypothesis doesn't require you to be good anything. Good anything sits back there unless the team is you Vyse and even then you might want a Dave lynch shot.

My VCA didn't have much. I acknowledged it. That's why I wanted Dave/Vyse.

In this game, we stopped being friends when you made that challenge while shitting on my opinion.
You relied on me for a meta case? Knowing my stance on meta? Yet you felt so confident in Vyse scum you tuned me out and did something that makes the game much harder for me?

Then, there's the shot of everyone knowing you're town. Where's your investigation? Strong stances? You've coasting because you've been in the block.
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Post Post #1635 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:13 pm

Post by Davsto »

Also, regarding the Vyse town read, I made it at 21:40 last night and I can't actually remember why so im gonna reread the ISO in a little bit and see if I can find the reasons again.
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Post Post #1636 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:14 pm

Post by Suzune »

I think we should all go to bed. Suzune has work soon. I think everyone needs a break to cool down and relax
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Post Post #1637 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:16 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 1626, Suzune wrote:Titus, I fail to see what can be gained from this. I have learned a lot mind you, but to what point. What do you hope to gain. You learn a tad about how I think but I am not actually Elbrin. 1,500 words for situation one. I don't even write that many when I am the serial killer trying to look down the line. Situation one is done, but I am tired and not sure if I want to run the other one.


I am wanting to show that Elbrin can indeed be scum. I have been dismissed with not even a thought for the most part and its frustrating. No one's saying why. I think he's 95% likely scum at this point.
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Post Post #1638 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:19 pm

Post by Suzune »

Titus it makes you happy. You have have the eight long term drives for situation one.

You do realise that this situation has more variables then we can count on.
The first and most obvious one being, I am not scum and therefore, these are my objective opinions on what I would do if i was scum in his place.
Therefore, the plan while it would share many similar facets with other players as mafia, would not be one hundred percent accurate. Given that Elbin is not scum or is scum and taking a back seat to the planning the plans would fall to the wayside. Likewise, if you are scum Titus then I am handing you the map to the game. So I do this very warily, however, regardless of the who is scum some plans will overlay.

Here are the numbers for situation one.

Spoiler:
For sake of easy reading. Plans start a 1, for each dividing point another number comes off of it. 1.1 and 1.2 would be a branch of the second step of the tree and from there on out.

Assuming that I am Elbrin and it is my mafia lead. Going with strategy one in which I am mafia and vyse is not. Starting point beginning of phase when I called the team.

1. Given this assumption, I know that Vyse is the easy target. Many people have expressed their desire to have him lynched. Since I counteroffered the chance of lynching him before the Shiro hammer, I would be in the clear to defend my claim that it was not uncalled for. Plan goes to step 2

2.1 With so many people leaning against Vyse, it would be easy to orchestrate a mislynch by reminding people of their read on him and sort of pushing it indirectly so that people would think it was their idea to lynch him. There is very little chance of it coming back to bite me if Vyse flips town because everyone was already against him and like the Brain flip, no one will point fingers at who is responsible. This keeps me safe within Dave's "town block". Therefore with few disadvantages I would push to get Vyse lynched. Vyse Lynch

Advantages and Disadvantages: Moving from here Elbrin would be safe to try and lynch Suzune or David. David is safe because Titus is interested in this lynch. Unless David is my partner this would lead to another safe town lynch and the further dismay of the town. The town would be in such disarray at this point that it would my partner and I could easily win in lylo by being the most organized or disorganized. Advancing down this route the chance of victory is much higher given that firebringer is hard to understand and not trustworthy, that Suzune seesm the game in a way that Titus does not understand, and that Titus is devolving. If Titus is my partner this gives us greater control over the flow of the game, we would probably be able to get David and Firebringer lynched by pulling up old posts. Thus the mafia would be able to win the game. The disadvantage to this plan is that it relies on the town to become panicked but given the current motivations of the town that is not hard to imagine.

2.2 With so many people against Vyse, it is possible that the town would take a back seat to lynching him. Worrying about the potential for a mislynch and will stall for many days. Given this situation it is in my best interest to lie low for a little while and only appear to stir the pot. This will make me look like I am active and it my reappearences to the topic are well planned enough I can gently sway the vote back to Vyse without so much as a problem. Vyse Lynch

Advantages of this situation. While not idea it is managable. It requires more time and more careful posting. The level of attention to detail that would be needed would be huge. Thus it is not a good fall back plan. However, in the event it gets to this situation and Vyse is not my partner it would be about biding my time. The town is suggestible right now thus is mean we are able to gain the upper hand earlier in the situation. This would lead to a favorable outcome and perhaps the chance to move my partner into a good light. Weakness of this plan is that it is a slow burn. The deception would need to run deeper to be successful that means the mafia would need to be cleaner in its plans and careful not to trip up on the amount of false posts that would need to be laid. Verdict: Manageable but tedious. (This is usually what I would do, I prefer a deeper deception)

2.3 Titus is not my teammate and freaks out that I jumped her lynch pitches a case against me. While it would be very difficult it would not be within the odds of not happening. Given such a potential I will have to act in a way that makes Titus look bad. This will inspire the town to lynch titus. Since Titus is not my partner. I would be free to go on a get Vyse lynched the next day. Titus Lynch.

Advantages: Titus is a dangerous player in this game and his paranoia is easy to rattle. The further I am able to rattle you the less credible you become. Thus I can turn the tide of the game against you by blowing holes in your arguments. When your credibility is low enough I can have you lynched. If Vyse if my partner then this clears Vyse a little bit, especially if he chimes in and stands against Titus. Firebringer is a swing vote so I cannot promise to know how he will behave and if it is logical enough and credible enough Suzune will fall for it too because she already suspects titus. The disadvantage is the difficultly that potentially comes from pushing Titus or anyone when they are fighting hard for the town. Thus there are less certain odds, but with all things the higher the danger the better the chance of victory. With Titus out of the way, the game will fall pretty easily to the mafia because David will push to lynch those outside the town block. From there keeping Vyse alive will be tough but from the standpoint of myself, I would have saftety. A mafia win but a precarious one. Not a great plan.

2.4 Titus is not my teammate and freaks out when I jump her on the lynch. Titus is able to swing a compelling case and get the town to back me. Elbrin Lynch game over.

This is a worse case senario. Due to this, appeasing Titus is best because of the difficulty of 2.3.

2.5 Titus is my teammate and using this devolution I am able to work the town into a panick. While in the panicked state the town chooses to mislynch Vyse. Lynch Vyse

The advantage of this is that the game will run smoothly. David, Molla, FireBringer and Suzune lack the order to bring the four of them together into a cohesive team unless pushed. Unless I kno the players really well and know that someone could lead. This is the too good to be true option since on paper it works out but it is too difficult to micromanage thus a lot of the plan will rely on good timing and the reactions of people. Ideally this plan is not the way to go.

2.6 Titus is not my teammate and the devolution causes the town to panic and mislynch Vyse. Lynch Vyse.

This is also not a situation that I would wish to happen. The difficulty of controlling the situation could get out of hand and people will end up lynched for little things. Thus this option should not be considered.

2.7 Vyse is my teammate and using his early scum read on Molla is able to get Molla lynched. Molla Lynch

This here is a potential for a good plan. With Molla out of the way a frustrated voice of reason leaves the town. This leaves sort of a mess. The game would run like usual however with not active mafia manipulation. If we think we are unable to run a higher stakes games this is the safest route because no one has to alter their play in order for it to work sucessfullly
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Post Post #1639 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:20 pm

Post by Suzune »

And Titus I realised you were a she about half way though the typing so, there might be some gender discrepancies. Sorry about that
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Post Post #1640 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:21 pm

Post by Davsto »

But seriously, look at this.
In post 1436, Titus wrote:@Davesto, Absolutely not. Vyse hasn't had an ounce of memorable content since Day 2. I am respecting his real life problems but that doesn't mean he just gets to sit on his ass and lurk. Someone can factor that in and his day 2 unvote of Kaito to discuss my mistaken belief that Sonic was scum to get ascumread on him. That's not attacking his teal life issues. I want him to sub out to resolve them or play. If not, my scumread stands as that's where it was the moment Sonic flipped town.

In post 1429, Titus wrote:If Vyse subs out or stays, tomorrow's challenge better not happen until that slot it caught up. Anyone who challenges before Dave has a read on Vyse and Vyse has caught up is getting turbo got parked by my "town block" or not. Vyse's slot has gone far too long without content.

In post 1447, Titus wrote:@Shiro, At the time (and I still do) think the scum is Dave/Vyse. I was attempting to sort you but I would rather keep the focus on my scumreads.

Right now, I am faced with lynching someone I currently believe to be town.

Yes, be disappointed I don't want to fall into an inadvertent trap you made. I am hunting scum, not presuming they are within you two because you "reaction test" challenged. Eventually, I will have to choose but right now, I don't want to.

@Suzune, Then quote the post next time because I didn't remember and reading Shiro doesn't need to e any harder for me.

All this "Vyse is scum", then suddenly when she can actually vote him she votes someone else?
Since she wants Vyse lynched anyway, why does she care about the lymchpool, since who she wants to lynch is in it?
If she thinks it's me/Vyse, why was she complaining about lynching outside the town bloc?
If she thinks it's me and Vyse, her excuse for wanting a meVvyse ("I wanted to vca") is also kinda crappy since, if it were both of us as scum, the fuck would vca show?
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Post Post #1641 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:25 pm

Post by Elbirn »

In post 834, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Flavor coming later.

The pool of players eligible to be lynched today consists of:


Firebringer
Vedith

VysePresident
BBmolla


Here are the current votes:


Vedith (7)
: Metal Sonic, Davsto, BBmolla, Suzune, Shiro, Elbirn, Firebringer,
BBmolla (5)
: Titus, Vedith, VysePresident, Kaito Kirishima
Firebringer (1)
:
VysePresident (0)
:

Not Voting (1) - Prolapsed Brain

Vedith has been lynched! He was a Temple Guard!

Moving on to Day Two.


No challenge has been issued yet.

The pool of players eligible to be lynched today consists of:

(NONE)

With 11 players alive, it will take 6 votes to lynch.



So I went back in time to pull up some vote counts to point out how titus has been counter to both scum lynches

And I got lazy because I'm not good at VCA and also day 2 still has no official Votecount for the lynch

But I just want to note that there's no frigging way the entire scumteam is off the lynch wagon
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Post Post #1642 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:27 pm

Post by Davsto »

Gah, true, ugh, idk.

Titus likes to manipulate attempts at VCA when she's scum though, right?

Also intent to put Vyse at L-1, I checked through and my townthoughts on him were pathetically weak.
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Post Post #1643 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:29 pm

Post by Titus »

@1638, There being people variables is why I am reaching out. I d much better with logic facts and strategy rather than emotion and social analysis.

@Dave, You quoted the very post why I voted Elbrin. I wanted you Vyse to get reactions and do a VCA from them. I do care because I wasn't sure. My stake was Vyse's lack of content. Elbrin makes the one challenge that makes it near impossible for VCA conflict to form and does it before Vyse has content. In a Vyse scum scenario, that content would lead to his buddy.

@Suzune, I will address those tomorrow. I will be off soon tonight.
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Post Post #1644 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:30 pm

Post by Davsto »

Yeh yeh okay
I don't buy it

VOTE: VysePresident

L-1
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Post Post #1645 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:30 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 1641, Elbirn wrote:
In post 834, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Flavor coming later.

The pool of players eligible to be lynched today consists of:


Firebringer
Vedith

VysePresident
BBmolla


Here are the current votes:


Vedith (7)
: Metal Sonic, Davsto, BBmolla, Suzune, Shiro, Elbirn, Firebringer,
BBmolla (5)
: Titus, Vedith, VysePresident, Kaito Kirishima
Firebringer (1)
:
VysePresident (0)
:

Not Voting (1) - Prolapsed Brain

Vedith has been lynched! He was a Temple Guard!

Moving on to Day Two.


No challenge has been issued yet.

The pool of players eligible to be lynched today consists of:

(NONE)

With 11 players alive, it will take 6 votes to lynch.



So I went back in time to pull up some vote counts to point out how titus has been counter to both scum lynches

And I got lazy because I'm not good at VCA and also day 2 still has no official Votecount for the lynch

But I just want to note that there's no frigging way the entire scumteam is off the lynch wagon


So your theory is that I tunnel you to protect town Vyse for what?
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Post Post #1646 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:34 pm

Post by Titus »

In post 1644, Davsto wrote:Yeh yeh okay
I don't buy it

VOTE: VysePresident

L-1


Funny, all the Titus is scum, but you don't vote me. Try to get me lynched. You jump after Vyse. Why? Solely BC I don't want it?
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Post Post #1647 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:35 pm

Post by Davsto »

I'm not voting you because I have pride. I'll be voting you in a 1v1 tomorrow, as I promised.
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Post Post #1648 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:35 pm

Post by VysePresident »

In post 1631, Davsto wrote:Okay ugh let me say something, im really thinking a Vyse/Titus scumteam right now.

Titus wanted a me/Vyse challenge. If I get lynched, free mislynch, and if Vyse gets lynched, she'll be seen as having put her partner in the firing line and potentially get twoncred for it.

On the other hand she threw a right tantrum at the challenge today, maybe that is because she knows Elbirn won't be lynched and thus a scum lynch is likely.

Just some theory crafting.

@Vyse - you still haven't answered about your scumread on me


Right now, I'm just typing up my notes.

If you want the summary, it's the fact that you have this weird mixture of things that come across as newbish, and stuff that strikes me as being really experienced. Sometimes, I think you're a slightly new, intellignet Townie with a stick in an awkward spot. (I say that in the friendliest way, pal. :P )

On the other hand, the part where you pushed PB for activity was bad, not gonna lie. Activity isn't alignment indicative, and...I think you ought to have picked up on that. I've also been noticing you 'pushing' Titus without actuall doing all that much about it all game. That was kinda meh even before I started scumreading her. :/

At this point, I think I'm pushing Titus to the death, and I'll just watch where the chips fall, and what people are doing with them before I say that much. There's not many options, and I'm kinda chatting with Molla about it some.

---


While I'm here, here's a quick summary of what I'm seeing from Titus that makes me scumread her. I'm going to dive into this more, but I'm tired of delaying, and the endless flak I'm getting for it.

Titus is being too coy about this game in the overview. I actually like what she's done in most single events, but looking at it now, she's just dancing around every lynch. For all the flak I'm getting about voting Vedith, at least I had the guts to stand up for my read. Now she's blaming me for unvoting Kaito to 'let her make a mistake pushing MS to save my scumbuddy' (and if you think I was trying to save him, just ask Molla. I wasn't scumreading Kaito as hard as Molla but I'd already figured he was the best lynch for the day, and promised to jump back on the wagon. Does that sound like either a bus or save to you?)

I mean, at least I actually stand up for my reads, when I have them. (I know that I'm going to get flak for my recent activity, so again, RL, the stupid speed lynching, & all the fights & tantrums in the beginning led to me disengaging. It's a thing that happens.)

She defends Vedith for Townreading Fire. It's a one time thing that disappears as soon as things start getting more serious. I mean, I know Vedith, and even I was voting him most of the way. I'm not sold on her lack of skepticism on this one issue, and constant skepticism towards everyone Town.

Now she's dancing around my lynch, and since I'm the apparent next lynch, she's WKing me.

VOTE: Titus

That's a thing.
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VysePresident
VysePresident
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VysePresident
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Post Post #1649 (ISO) » Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:36 pm

Post by VysePresident »

In post 1647, Davsto wrote:I'm not voting you because I have pride. I'll be voting you in a 1v1 tomorrow, as I promised.

In post 1644, Davsto wrote:Yeh yeh okay
I don't buy it

VOTE: VysePresident

L-1


Yeah, Dav/Titus.

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