Mini 1729 - History Mafia II END

[KTthecreeper]

his reads look real

scum can give real reads didn't you see Bc go on and on about how read list don't make people look town in any way shape or form

[Aristophanes]

Btw, Ari has been active in other games last night saturday night and this morning.

Hi!
I was behind in a few games. Like, really behind.
I am now undertaking my catch up of this game.

It is one of the last in my push to be caught up, after which I aim to remain this way.

So, here I am. Rereading and ready to catch some scum!
Anything pertinent to know as I read back?

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE: Aristophanes

[Aristophanes]

Basteon,
You voted Scorp in 189 for not liking two of his posts. No explanation otherwise. I see your vote is still there. Has this evolved or is it still based on the unexplained dislike of those posts?
Oh, you answered this in 260. Scorp is not (as in, at the time of the latest VC when this was written) on KT. Does this not satisfy your asking for him to join a wagon?
(Maybe I should finish reading before I continue to ask these things...)

SW what if he was 11 would that change your mind?

What is the point of this post?
I don't think it should matter their age. Also, why is there no "If Dwlee is 14, does that change your opinion?" asked to anyone?
Like, this whole age conversation is more distraction and I don't like it. I know it's not alignment indicative content-wise, but this feels like it's derailing the conversation.
I'm glad the two of you have played games before. You are younger, fine. That doesn't mean you can't play well. Thus far, I haven't seen it, but I'm sure you will show me something worthwhile at some point. This doesn't stop you from possibly appearing younger. Oh well, deal with it. So I will treat you as regular players, per your request. All this does for me is make me think the "unnatural" conversation between you two may have just been because I'm old and didn't get your angle. I honestly need to reread the two of you and reassess.

In all this, Dwlee at least tries to stay on track and votes Scorp for ignoring his question. KT does no such thing, which combined with Spiff's odd defense of the spot, makes me raise an eyebrow there.

Sonic, why is gummy obvtown?

@Bearded's 258,
I think I addressed this above. The reasons are forgotten, so I have to reread them. My asking or everyone's thoughts was because I thought it legitimate and a way to get us out of RVS and talking about something I viewed as substantial.

Scorp's readslist in 266 I don't like. He says I talked mostly about sex. I had 1 post where I joked like that. I may have been light on content, but it seems he didn't read anything and just made it up.
His blind support of the Dwlee/KT TvS ides is also not great.
His EP read is weird, as if scumcoaching. Especially if you compare it to his Spiff read.
And there are far too many null reads. If you have so many null, why bother making a list if not to look busy?

At Pg. 12, and this is getting big.
I didn't expect so much homework!!

I'll continue this in my next post.

[Aristophanes]

At least all of this fluff posting is easy to skim...

I am certainly not clicking on the link that says "images of pubic lice"

All this because of cooties. Titus derailing with Sonic makes me like that slot less.
Have we had our fun yet? There are maybe 5 posts I've seen worth reading in the last 3 pages. I'm glad I didn't miss much.

I like Spiff's reads in 371

though I have no clue who ET is.
I thought he meant EP, but he is in the null, not the town basket.

Nevermind. ET is KT.

BeardedCat is town. Cool!

I'm sorry for complaining but there is so much blathering on occurring in this game that I have nothing else to say really.

Scorp v Kt would give me more if he would answer or if KT would get the hint and back off.
I read this interaction as more towny on KT's side of things tbh.
KT, as scum, I would assume, would stop pushing this and move on after being told by Scorp he wouldn't answer him. The persistence feels more frustrated town than not.
Scorp, on the other hand, is blatantly ignoring him and refuses to acknowledge his questions, which I would argue is antitown at best. Doing it with such confidence too seems less towny.
Also, he refers back to 278 which looks more like a disregarding of the question than an answer to it.

Oh my god, how many pages do they go at it for!?!?

I'm gonna need a stiffer drink to get through this than I thought.
At least the Sex talk was amusing.

[Aristophanes]

"Don't let me being a kid effect your read on me. I'm not a n00b."

you know what i'll stop playing for today but just remember Scorpious litteraly told me to F off and to go away so i'm felling kinda forced out just remember that Scorpious screamed at at kid that just wanted to do well in a game YOU GUYS HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THIS IS ONLY A GAME just don'y lynch me while i don't play bye

AtE for being "bullied out of the thread" and how we should feel bad because he's "just a kid."
Well then. I don't even know.
At least it's a break from this shit. (No offense, KT)

Why does aristophaneous still have their vote on me?

Whoops.
UNVOTE:
I'd forgotten that was there.

I'm at Page 19 and should be able to do more, but my head hurts from either that argument or from looking at the screen for too long.
I'll be back.

[Call of the Wild]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=59579

OK, I want everyone to take a look at the first few pages here and see BBT going after Grib for a supposed scum slip about his flavor. Hint-BBT was scum, Grib was town.

Now, look at this 416, 421, 426

So as scum, BBT nitpicked at Grib about role PM flavor and made it out to be a scum slip. Now, he's picking at Scorpius and I believe he said something about Spiffeh having reads lists and made it sound scummy.

I do reads lists as both alignments. It isn't alignment indicative at all. What I look at is how genuine the reads are and if they follow a thought process I can understand. Scorpius's readslist was bad because he had too many nulls and not very good reasons for most people. But producing a readslist is absolutely protown. For one, it helps others read you. For another, it lets people know where you stand and gives us something to talk about. I have caught scum off of bad reads lists and seen obvious town from reads lists.

I think BBT is a good enough player to know that reads lists are not a bad thing to do and the fact that he's picking at that as a scummy thing to do reminds me of that scum game-nitpicking over trivialities to paint people as scum.

Plot is someone I've wanted to play with for awhile and if this slot is town, I want them around. But I haven't been able to read Plot for whatever reason and BBT is nitpicking. Also, the reason I am questioning Titus scumread on Sonic is because I agree with his reasons here 628 about Plot's 519. That post pinged me hard as well. But you see, this puts me in direct conflict with my hydra partner as she thinks Sonic is scum. I already put a post to her about this in hydra PT so we don't pollute the game by arguing it here.

One other reason I am in conflict is because of what I wrote here 752. I respect Titus's opinion or I wouldn't hydra with her so I don't know what to do about this.

I also have a few issues with Spiffeh.

His defense of KT due to his age seemed off. Why can't young people be scum? I am not currently scumreading KT but that seemed odd. I think his jump onto Ari was odd as well simply due to him not being here. That was after being so willing to wagon BC. So he's just jumping around feeling out wagons. I already mentioned this.

In contrast to Scorpius's readslist which I really didn't like, I like Spiffeh's. That looked townish.

So I guess my three big problem people right now are BC, Spiffeh, and Scorpius. However, I feel the same way about Spiffeh that I do about BC. If he's town, I want him around. He's a good player and will be super helpful to town if he's town. I do not believe all three of these players are scum. I just think there is scum here somewhere.

But.........................our vote is on Sonic because Titus knows him and believes he's scum. I will say what I saw of Sonic Scum in Team Mafia was very active, very engaged, very much in everyone's face-super aggressive, super involved, buddying like crazy with Nacho, super long convoluted cases that didn't make sense but still sounded good, and longer posts than I've seen here.

So that contradicts his play here. This may seem a little conflicted. It's because it is. I also like Sonic. When I like someone, they are usually town but not always.

~SW

[Dwlee99]

You say that you like spiffeh's readlist and it looks "townish" but then say you have a problem with them, SW?

[Call of the Wild]

UNVOTE:

Sadly, MS is banned. We are going to have to re-read this slot based on the replacement.

Yes, dwlee I said the readslists looked townie but I didn't like the wagon hopping. However, I retract the part about KT since I'm not scumreading KT and Spiffeh already explained that to me in a way that made sense.

Another thing about Spiffeh that bugs me is his wanting Scorpius to be the lynch but voting elsewhere.

@Spiffeh-Do you think both BC and Scorpius are scum?

~SW

[gummmybear]

Chiming in from work to say that I like CoTW's 782, it echoes many of my thoughts on BC, and I'll read up on the previous BBT scumgames because what you mention has pinged me as I've said in my own 745, that BC should really know better than to harp on such nitpicking issues especially in the big fight with Sonic.

BC's response to my wall seems rather null to me, very measured and logical. I haven't gotten much out of it.

@BC, what's your response to this though?

The rest of the fight doesn't really stand out much to me, except for one more point: BBT's pushing of MS' comment that CoTW's posting was good questioning (that's quite a clunky string of possessives but I'm lazy to make it sleeker.) I'm honestly puzzled as to why this would be a thing to point out at all. To me, it seems obvious that MS is saying that CoTW's question is pro-town/useful to town (and that reactions to it will probably help to glean alignments etc.), but not that it's townie or a towntell or whatever. Protown vs townie and anti-town vs scummy, yeah? Like how posting noise and nonsense on Day 1 could be anti-town but not necessarily scummy. I'm again a bit skeptical at the push on this - I feel that BC hydra should really know better. Thoughts on this?

You've not commented on it. Especially would like to hear from BBT head on this.

@CoTW, talk to me more about Spiffeh. I haven't read Spiffeh much, but I liked his recent exchange with Metal Sonic (before MS got banned ) and felt that the tone of it felt casual and carefree - possibly nullish or townish to me. What do you think? I'll try to read more on him.

[gummmybear]

Bella, I would like to hear from you about Scorp. What do you think of his recent activity? Why is he your preferred lynch? And also, why aren't you voting him if so? What do you think of BC vs MS?

And I want Scorp to address this:

how do you feel about BC now after what was done? And do you agree with BC's assertion that you would be scumreading BC because of the newbie that you were both in?

Also Scorp - content is needed from you. Answer this question and talk to me about BC.

[gummmybear]

Oh gah my quote died.

@Mod, could you help fix it?

[BeardedCat]

I'm here and catching up.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

If bc or ms are scum it is ms. I'd be much more comfortable lynching the person who has been posting elsewhere and has an outdated vote parked on me.

I'd appreciate your support on the MS wagon.

Or he hasn't been tracking BBT's every move on the site and has only noticed his absence this game? Which is an extremely plausible possibility. This line of suspicion is ridiculous.

You're missing the point.

MS didn't just say 'Where is BBT?' he tried to spin it to make me look scummy. Like I was only avoiding this game - which is bullshit for two reasons.

1) MS knows activity is not alignment indicative for me, for him to try and use this to make me look scummy means that MS is scum. Town!MS does not do this.

2) I LOVE being scum. MS knows this which means he would also know that I pay much more attention to the games I'm scum in. For MS to suddenly act like this isn't a thing, again, points to MS being scum.

Basically, MS is using things that he knows are not alignment indicative for me to try and paint me in a scummy light. And that's scummy.

It basically boiled down to "I like his readslist" but he repeated that like seven times in seven different ways and made it as long as possible when one sentence would have sufficed. That might be his posting style but the amount of walls I'm seeing that have paragraphs of filler don't sit well with me.

Yeah, that's play-style. Plot can be verbose at times - not alignment indicative.

CotW have had awful voting all game but I have to be careful here because I think I have scum read Titus every single time we have played together.

I'm pretty sure SW has cast like all but one vote so far so I don't see how these thoughts relate.

They don't relate specifically to one another - I was talking about the slot (Titus) in general.

Spiffeh's jump on there for no reason after needing almost no convincing to jump onto BC seems a little too eager to go where the wind blows voting wise

I did give a reason. Plot's post pinged me and my EP vote was just going to waste.

I don't know why you're acting like we're at the time in the game where we need to decide on a compromise lynch - that sounds like pretty shitty reasoning to start moving your vote around.

KT why did you jump off Scorpious? You seemed extremely convinced that he was scum last time you posted.

Aristo and Scorpious are MIA rn so in an effort to put my vote somewhere that it doesn't go to waste I'll VOTE: BeardedCat

Yeah, this is bad. Shows a lack of conviction in your reads. I don't see how Aristo being inactive should change your read on him being scum.

[BeardedCat]

I'm not sure I follow fully, but let me ask you if you think I intentionally misrepped?


To answer as best as I can, I dont think Scorpious was trying to disengage from KT at all, you dont disengage with back and forth biting posts, you shut it down with an answer and if they are not satisfied you let them tire themselves out, it's not really your issue anymore it's up to the rest of town to judge their case and your response and its only if the town start backing his case despite your response do you need to come back to it, otherwise why bother? They didnt like your answer and are just repeating themselves. Such things have happened with other players in this game and you can argue scorpious attitude to answering other players fits that playstyle but not his creeper interactions.

As for the bolded part, I clearly stated before hand in a number of posts, including one just before telling creeper to shut up that I was waiting for Scorpious to be pro active, when creeper went away that was an opportunity for Scorpious to clear some air on the wider game from his perspective, perhaps present his case why creeper was still scum despite the whole age revelation etc, instead once he no longer needed to argue with creeper he stopped posting, despite clearly still being active as he does post less then a hour later to repeat his *i'm ignoring Creeper routine to Dwlee.

OK, so to sum up what you're saying here;

'Scorpious is scum because he did not react how I wanted him to react.'

Would that be a fair assumption?

I've been reading BC as town for playstyle and similarities in thought, but because of that, I have had paranoid suspicions about them.

Can you explain the correlation here? How does 'they have similar thoughts to me' lead to paranoia?

The back and forth after that about BBT's inactivity (the reason for BC's serious vote onto MS) seems a bit of an overreaction from BC

See my thoughts on this above - you seem to be missing the point of what I was saying.

BBT's pushing of MS' comment that CoTW's posting was good questioning (that's quite a clunky string of possessives but I'm lazy to make it sleeker.) I'm honestly puzzled as to why this would be a thing to point out at all. To me, it seems obvious that MS is saying that CoTW's question is pro-town/useful to town (and that reactions to it will probably help to glean alignments etc.), but not that it's townie or a towntell or whatever.

Because it showed a flaw in his thought process. You don't go around pointing out the pro-town things that your scum reads do, do you? It was done in an effort to coerce CotW onto our wagon - it would be much more difficult if he had continued pushing them as a scum read (which if you remember his scum read took precedence).

~Both BBT

[BeardedCat]

Talking of refraction, I can't help but recall the other pointless back and foerh bbt got into - he and Thor were on opposing scum teams. Bbt's largest contribution so far and he did that with it? However, I find Ms incredibly difficult to sort (@ms, link to your last scun game?)

Tut tut Bella, what are you doing here?

Do you mean the game where it was multi-ball, and we knew it was multi-ball, and we were looking for the other scum team? Because I think you do and I found scum in that 'pointless back and forth' so I'm not really sure what you're getting at?

Ew when did Scorpious get down to only one vote on him.

Why are you lamenting a wagon that you're not even a part of?

Yes and I think he tried to lurk the suspicion off of him and he was successful.

Wow. I mean, you

JUST

unvoted Aristo because he wasn't here and you're talking about people successfully lurking votes off of them? Are you serious right now?

MS/Spiffeh are scum.

Just need to find the last one. Could be Bella.

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

OK, I want everyone to take a look at the first few pages here and see BBT going after Grib for a supposed scum slip about his flavor. Hint-BBT was scum, Grib was town.

I'm going to stop you right here. If you're going to try and meta me, you had better do it correctly.

Recent game

Take a look at that game. I pinned someone's (PatientZer0) early reads-list as scummy and questioned Mollie because she was town reading it. Mollie and myself got into a 'pointless back and forth' for quite some time. I

pressed

(read: nit picked) Mollie about the reads-list and ultimately got distracted from it. I was town and Patient Zero was scum.

Another game; BBT caught scum from another reads-list and engaged in yet another 'pointless back and forth'

That is a very, very poor attempt to meta me SW. In summary, I nit pick ALL THE TIME. It's how I play, it's how I find scum. I find a small detail that nobody else noticed and I hone in on it until my read is finalised. I catch scum out for making shit reads-lists all the time - those two examples were just from the top of my head.

This makes me suspicious of Bella because she is trying to use this as reasoning to position herself to join my wagon when she knows full well exactly how I play. Hell, I'm pretty sure in our first game together I tunneled the shit out of her for something pretty small until I realised she was town.

You wanna try again SW?

~BBT

[BeardedCat]

h
So as scum, BBT nitpicked at Grib about role PM flavor and made it out to be a scum slip. Now, he's picking at Scorpius and I believe he said something about Spiffeh having reads lists and made it sound scummy.

This was what I was replying to from SW. I messed the quote up.

~BBT

[Dwlee99]

I feel confident in a spiffeh lynch now.
VOTE: SpiffehVOTE:

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Spiffeh

I also tend to nitpick. One time I thought I caught scum for asking what a vt was and when I called them out they got super pissed and claimed the only role confirmed to be in the game becoming conftown. I try to avoid nitpicking cause I have noticed people hate it.

[gummmybear]

I feel confident in a spiffeh lynch now.
VOTE: SpiffehVOTE:

Why? Also you haven't answered why you think MS v BC is TvT. And why go off the Aristophanes wagon? Are you satisfied with his posting?

BC, I'll come back to you later when I have a little more time. Please poke me if I forget any of your questions - same applies to anyone else.

[gummmybear]

Oh wait cancel that on the MS v BC, missed your earlier post. So you think bad logic = likely to be scum? And good logic = likely to be town?

[Dwlee99]

Most of the time, yes. Not that town can't have bad logic and scum good logic but scum are more likely to have bad logic.
I like Ari's posting and the reason I was on the wagon was for posting elsewhere but not here and they provided good reasons for that.
Reasons on spiffeh will be when I get home from school.

[Dwlee99]

Talking of refraction, I can't help but recall the other pointless back and foerh bbt got into - he and Thor were on opposing scum teams. Bbt's largest contribution so far and he did that with it? However, I find Ms incredibly difficult to sort (@ms, link to your last scun game?)

Tut tut Bella, what are you doing here?

Do you mean the game where it was multi-ball, and we knew it was multi-ball, and we were looking for the other scum team? Because I think you do and I found scum in that 'pointless back and forth' so I'm not really sure what you're getting at?

Ew when did Scorpious get down to only one vote on him.

Why are you lamenting a wagon that you're not even a part of?

Yes and I think he tried to lurk the suspicion off of him and he was successful.

Wow. I mean, you

JUST

unvoted Aristo because he wasn't here and you're talking about people successfully lurking votes off of them? Are you serious right now?

MS/Spiffeh are scum.

Just need to find the last one. Could be Bella.

~BBT

I like BBT's reasons for why spiffeh is scum and agree with his points about the "lamenting a wagon that you're not even a part of" as well as spiffeh's unvote and then speaking of people lurking off votes.

[Dwlee99]

I'm still not home but I had extra time during my computer class to post so I did. Will be home in ~5 hours.